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[The Henery]

Josh's post on Beyond:.

Isn't the fabled Trueskill algorithm supposed to keep BK's from GK's? Sick of everyone having to suffer because inexperienced players can't be bothered to learn.

 

[User 73706]

Josh's post on Beyond:


What if BR/DMR as loadout options killed Halo 4(even though they were so easy to use)? I always thought majority of population hated AR starts, but stuff like AR starts on Orbital beating BR starts on Heretic happens way too often in H2/3 playlists.

RIP halo

 

[Mix]

Let's not forget the first HaloGAF Halo 5 montages

"Victory!" By Sikamikanico
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loWjTyKwbFQ

"Breakdown" by VinFTW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ8pH8M15NE

 

[FyreWulff]

Isn't the fabled Trueskill algorithm supposed to keep BK's from GK's? Sick of everyone having to suffer because inexperienced players can't be bothered to learn.

For the purposes of a functional game, you have to let the system search for wide margins outside of the target skill level.

Reach's Arena was the most brutal form of Trueskill, and it got torn apart for being extremely honest and having really long search times, but on the other hand, it also tended to have more competitive games after you qualified for a division (in terms of final score) than any ranked mode up to that point.

 

[Stinkles]

Josh's post on Beyond:


What if BR/DMR as loadout options killed Halo 4(even though they were so easy to use)? I always thought majority of population hated AR starts, but stuff like AR starts on Orbital beating BR starts on Heretic happens way too often in H2/3 playlists.

Majority of players don't ever opine. Hardcore, pro and serious players make way more noise than the silent majority. You can't really infer anything from that silence one way or another. But unlike COD, where you can have success with body shots, or getting the jump on a player, Halo for noobs can sometimes feel frustrating - imagine you're a "bk" and you get the drop on someone from here or TeamBeyond, you unload five shots into their back and they STILL turn around and drop you with a couple of rounds to the head from a precision weapon. That's as intended, but you can see how t would cause some folks to go "bullshit!"


Tricky balance to get right, and then that balance has to account for experts, improving skill curves from "newbies" matchmaking content ad the age of the game.

One of the more subtle ways we (and others) address this is by slowly pushing people in Campaign to use all their abilities and increase their general skill and awareness so that they can more easily adapt to the harsh and unforgiving mistress that is MP.

You can also see it in some of the weapon placement in the beta - where even with AR starts, the BR or DMR were close to your base and with almost enough for everyone right off the bat.

My personal belief is that everyone should be forced to play SWAT inverted on Recon to learn both headshot importance and to use the control scheme that god intended for us.

One embarassing measure of skill for me is when I end up as the BK on a team, and the other team has one BK as well, and we end up most-kills of each other.

 

[Prinz Eugn]

Ugh, I wonder which direction Josh "Make Halo more accessible" Holmes will go? Probably AR starts with secondary SMG's, can't wait.

I just hope they have a decent voting system so we can get BR starts in parties, at least.

EDIT: Inverted is dumb

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

Im really not sure. AR starts really kinda felt like that it fits Halo 5 more. With the old Halos, you always had one awful automatic and awful pistol.

Halo 3 with its Fisher Price AR and weird pistol
Halo 2 and the SMG and weak pistol.

You really needed a BR in both.

Maybe it will work now with H5?
But IMO the decline of population wasnt probably because of BR starts. Maybe people didnt like Halo 5 that much and it became boring to them. Who knows. The real test will be the final game.

Same issues happened to Reach and a lot to Halo 4.

 

[Welfare]

My personal belief is that everyone should be forced to play SWAT inverted on Recon to learn both headshot importance and to use the control scheme that god intended for us.

Was with you until that.

 

[daedalius]

You can also see it in some of the weapon placement in the beta - where even with AR starts, the BR or DMR were close to your base and with almost enough for everyone right off the bat.

My personal belief is that everyone should be forced to play SWAT inverted on Recon to learn both headshot importance and to use the control scheme that god intended for us.

One embarassing measure of skill for me is when I end up as the BK on a team, and the other team has one BK as well, and we end up most-kills of each other.

It was much better than the 1 BR per base scenario of H2 Midship.

H2 SMG and H3 AR are garbage, H4 AR was actually pretty effective at its intended range. Hopefully the H5 AR will actually have a proper place in the weapon sandbox (it seemed to from the beta). Magnum buffs will be nice, hopefully its less obtrusive when zooming in.

 

[AlStrong]

My personal belief is that everyone should be forced to play SWAT inverted on Recon to learn both headshot importance and to use the control scheme that god intended for us.

#TeamInverted

edit:

Looks like we could use another HaloGAF war.

 

[Overdoziz]

Get rid of automatic rifles.

 

[FyreWulff]

I use Legacy Recon.

A friend I know uses Invert Legacy Boxer. When other people picked up his controller at PAX they immediately spun around and slammed their fist into a wall.

 

[dwells]

EDIT: Inverted is dumb

Was with you until that.

Goldeneye, the pioneering console FPS, shipped with the default control scheme inverted. Goldeneye was my first console FPS, so inverted has been programmed into me ever since.

 

[Welfare]

Goldeneye, the pioneering console FPS, shipped with the default control scheme inverted. Goldeneye was my first console FPS, so inverted has been programmed into me ever since.

I can play inverted in third person games, but in a FPS? No sir.

 

[jem0208]

So two things...

1) I heard Frankie blew up on gaming side? What happened?
And
2) boo AR Starts. But I guess they need to be accessible for everyone.

Spoiler

even though a ton of people will leave halo for BlOps 3. Leaving us to deal with the wasteland.

*Pistol starts

There's nothing wrong with having AR starts if you also spawn with a viable utility weapon.

The pistol in the beta was already reasonably powerful, with the buffs Holmes has mentioned it should work well as a starting weapon.

But do they know they're voting for AR starts? The vast majority of times a gametype is presented with 'BR' in the title the votes pile on it in a panicked scramble. Most of the time I see an AR start voted it's because either there's no option for a BR start (a common occurrence before the last update) or the H3 option in BTB is Assault or KOTH and people vote for it not realising it's an AR start (or vote for it because that's the only H3 option).



The Halo 4 pistol is the best after CE imo. Got a real quick TTK at close range, nice for shredding AR kids. The ADS felt rather awkward for the H5 pistol and felt a bit redundant with the AR having zooming capabilities. I hope the pistol buff includes a more accommodating scope.

Perhaps, although I've seen AT starts voted over BR starts quite a few times in the H3 playlist.

Ugh, I wonder which direction Josh "Make Halo more accessible" Holmes will go? Probably AR starts with secondary SMG's, can't wait.

I just hope they have a decent voting system so we can get BR starts in parties, at least.

EDIT: Inverted is dumb

I don't see how having a weapon which is both powerful and hard to use is making the game more accessible...

I don't see why people keep looking at "AR/Pistol starts" and only reading the first word.

 

[kittens]

Goldeneye, the pioneering console FPS, shipped with the default control scheme inverted. Goldeneye was my first console FPS, so inverted has been programmed into me ever since.

Same, but I switched when Halo CE came out. I got sick of constantly switching the settings when playing with friends, lol.

 

[Impala26]

My personal belief is that everyone should be forced to play SWAT inverted on Recon to learn both headshot importance and to use the control scheme that god intended for us.

#TeamInverted

Goldeneye, the pioneering console FPS, shipped with the default control scheme inverted. Goldeneye was my first console FPS, so inverted has been programmed into me ever since.

These folks get it.
GoldenEye and Perfect Dark were a huge part of my gaming during my formative years.
Therefore, inverted for life.

I use Legacy Recon.

A friend I know uses Invert Legacy Boxer. When other people picked up his controller at PAX they immediately spun around and slammed their fist into a wall.

lol, talk about exotic!

I used Legacy Inverted when I first started playing Halo, but to many other FPS games during that time jumped aboard the "Stick A: Movement, Stick B: Look", so I forced myself to learn that.

Never unlearnt Inverted though, and never plan to.

 

[AlStrong]

Goldeneye, the pioneering console FPS, shipped with the default control scheme inverted. Goldeneye was my first console FPS, so inverted has been programmed into me ever since.

I think I was always inverted, starting with the MechWarrior 2 games. For Halo, I would have made the switch anyway because inverted flight controls for CE was top priority and I hated the switch when first person cam was "normal".

 

[King Leo]

Too much BR warriors in here. Try having an open mind. I don't want the meta to devolve into peak shooting again like in H2A. Magnum starts welcome a higher aiming skill gap as well as more map movement and sandbox variety. This then leads to more interesting gameplay, in theory.

 

[daedalius]

I played inverted somewhere back in the quake days, but that was with a mouse... and I think I learned that from playing Mechwarrior in the first place.

Don't think I ever did much Halo/console games inverted; I thought goldeneye was garbage because I was just playing quake

 

[Mistel]

I alternate between southpaw and default, cant really decide which I prefer.

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

Too much BR warriors in here. Try having an open mind. I don't want the meta to devolve into peak shooting again like in H2A. Magnum starts welcome a higher aiming skill gap as well as more map movement and sandbox variety. This then leads to more interesting gameplay, in theory.

Wat

It would be cool if we could stop with this "AR starts promote more movement" myth. If a pistol is "OP" again, everyone will use that instead of other weapons and then we have that sandbox variety in question again.

 

[Prinz Eugn]

Goldeneye, the pioneering console FPS, shipped with the default control scheme inverted. Goldeneye was my first console FPS, so inverted has been programmed into me ever since.

Yeah, I'm not dogmatic about it, but it's a pretty bizarre convention to me considering how often people want left/right inverted.

I don't see how having a weapon which is both powerful and hard to use is making the game more accessible...

I'm not sure what you are referring to. You can make certain aspects of the game have a decent skill gap, but then make that gap irrelevant in other aspects.

 

[Ramirez]

Well, June is here. I just wanted to thank all of you who changed your avatar for the month, read up on CF, or donated. It is appreciated.

 

[User 73706]

Bumper Jumper with 10 sensitivity is the only way to go

#sensygaf

 

[jailbird20022]

I only use inverted while flying, you're all nuts.

#UpMeansUP&DownMeansDown

 

[IronWarrior]

Majority of players don't ever opine. Hardcore, pro and serious players make way more noise than the silent majority. You can't really infer anything from that silence one way or another. But unlike COD, where you can have success with body shots, or getting the jump on a player, Halo for noobs can sometimes feel frustrating - imagine you're a "bk" and you get the drop on someone from here or TeamBeyond, you unload five shots into their back and they STILL turn around and drop you with a couple of rounds to the head from a precision weapon. That's as intended, but you can see how t would cause some folks to go "bullshit!"

Has it ever been considered to include a short tutorial mode in? I think I remember seeing that CS:GO had a target shooting mode that explicitly teaches a lot of the mechanics. I know it's not ideal to force players to play a learning mode but there's definitely been stuff in previous Halos that can be tough to learn without reading up online (Halo 3's non hitscan BR for example)

*Pistol starts

There's nothing wrong with having AR starts if you also spawn with a viable utility weapon.

The pistol in the beta was already reasonably powerful, with the buffs Holmes has mentioned it should work well as a starting weapon.



Perhaps, although I've seen AT starts voted over BR starts quite a few times in the H3 playlist.


I don't see how having a weapon which is both powerful and hard to use is making the game more accessible...

I don't see why people keep looking at "AR/Pistol starts" and only reading the first word.

I don't see what's wrong with having a powerful pistol as a starting weapon provided it is accurate and reliable. The reason AR/SMG starts are such a big problem is that you can't defend yourself against snipers and other precision weapons on spawn. If the pistol is strong enough to ping/endanger snipers and counter other precision weapons I don't see the issue.

 

[Impala26]

I played inverted somewhere back in the quake days, but that was with a mouse... and I think I learned that from playing Mechwarrior in the first place.

Don't think I ever did much Halo/console games inverted; I thought goldeneye was garbage because I was just playing quake

Deddy, I...
I don't even know where to begin with this post...

Inverted, with a mouse?
GoldenEye was garbage?

PLENTY OF ROOM ABOARD THE BAD OPINION EXPRESS!

 

[Welfare]

The "map movement" argument for AR starts is null in Halo 5 because of all the movement options.

"Weapon variety" has always been suspect. Me spawning with a crap gun to only discard it for a better weapon isn't variety, it's the developer spawning me with a crap gun.

If the AR is actually a good weapon in H5, than I should have to think if I want to drop it or not, not go immediately to the nearest BR/DMR/LR/SMG and swap it.

#2cents

 

[daedalius]

Deddy, I...
I don't even know where to begin with this post...

Inverted, with a mouse?
GoldenEye was garbage?

PLENTY OF ROOM ABOARD THE BAD OPINION EXPRESS!

C'mon, Quake was vastly superior to Goldeneye. How is that even a debate?

 

[kittens]

Goldeneye was pretty bad tbh. It was the best FPS on consoles, which wasn't saying much at the time. I still played the hell out of it, though. Perfect Dark was a good step up, and Halo CE was a HUGE step up.

 

[Stinkles]

Goldeneye was pretty bad tbh. It was the best FPS on consoles, which wasn't saying much at the time. I still played the hell out of it, though. Perfect Dark was a good step up, and Halo CE was a HUGE step up.

Super influential though - and a lot of its failures inspired "fixes" you see in other games. And it had twin stick support (I didn't know this till years later).

 

[Forerunner]

C'mon, Quake was vastly superior to Goldeneye. How is that even a debate?

Of course Quake was better than Goldeneye, but I wouldn't call it garbage.

 

[Stinkles]

I don't invert with a mouse, btw. Only makes sense for sticks.

 

[daedalius]

Of course Quake was better than Goldeneye, but I wouldn't call it garbage.

Personal opinion and all that. Goldeneye was fine for what it was, but coming off quake myself, I wasn't impressed.

I found the action super slow and the controller ridiculously constrictive from a mouse+kb (obviously). Maybe if I had more friends that wanted to split screen it, but I was already doing LANs pretty frequently of quake then.

My first taste of CE back then was at a friends apartment where I got destroyed by someone using the Magnum against me when I could barely move with the sticks, because it was literally the first time since goldeneye I'd played a console shooter. I was unhappy, and quite vocal about the superiority of mouse+kb at that time and of course, I would win if I had a mouse.

 

[kittens]

Super influential though - and a lot of its failures inspired "fixes" you see in other games. And it had twin stick support (I didn't know this till years later).

Definitely influential, both to the industry and to the console fan base. I probably would never have gotten as hyped for Halo and the Xbox if it weren't for Goldeneye.

And yeah, I remember thinking the twin stick control scheme was bizarre as hell at the time. I couldn't fathom why anyone would go with that, lol. I'm not sure if I ever tried it.

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

I don't see what's wrong with having a powerful pistol as a starting weapon provided it is accurate and reliable. The reason AR/SMG starts are such a big problem is that you can't defend yourself against snipers and other precision weapons on spawn. If the pistol is strong enough to ping/endanger snipers and counter other precision weapons I don't see the issue.

Its a pistol after all and should never act like primary starting weapon IMO. Thats why we have all the rifles.


@Welfare
Agree

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Speaking of powerful pistols, that pistol you get in the House of Wolves dlc in Destiny - holy smokes, it's a beaut. Still don't love the game, but hope to just pop in now and then, hopefully play the first raid soon.

I don't invert with a mouse, btw. Only makes sense for sticks.

Of course.

 

[HTupolev]

I don't invert with a mouse, btw. Only makes sense for sticks.

It doesn't really make sense for sticks either. People use the "flight controls" argument to explain it, but flight controls maintain consistency by having left/right be roll, not yaw. In FPS games where it's yaw, vertical inverted creates an inconsistency in how left/right is interpreted versus up/down.

 

[daedalius]

Its a pistol after all and should never act like primary starting weapon IMO. Thats why we have all the rifles.

What does this mean?

Are you saying the pistol shouldn't be a viable spawn weapon?

Every weapon in the sandbox should be "viable" in its intended combat scenario.

 

[Fracas]

The pistol will be good?

His will be done

 

[Impala26]

C'mon, Quake was vastly superior to Goldeneye. How is that even a debate?

Oh I'm not debating that or not (didn't ever actually play Quake), but there's no denying the fun that was had from GoldenEye, nor the impact it had on the gaming industry in general.

My PC gaming during the late 90's was relegated to simulation games (RIP Maxis) and puzzle adventure games (Myst <3). Consoles were where I got the majority of my straight up action fix.

Speaking of powerful pistols, that pistol you get in the House of Wolves dlc in Destiny - holy smokes, it's a beaut. Still don't love the game, but hope to just pop in now and then, hopefully play the first raid soon.

Vestian is an awesome weapon, try using it in Crucible sometime

Spoiler

before it gets nerfed

To my fellow Destiny players... this man needs a double-dose of Vault of Glass STAT!

 

[BreakawayMetal]

Bunker was best Goldeneye level

Spoiler

Fite me

 

[Plywood]

I gotta say I've been really enjoying this Hunt the Truth story, probably because the VA for Ben Giraud is excellent. I'm on episode 8 right now.

 

[daedalius]

To my fellow Destiny players... this man needs a double-dose of Vault of Glass STAT!

oh god

I gotta say I've been really enjoying this Hunt the Truth story, probably because the VA for Ben Giraud is excellent. I'm on episode 8 right now.

Its great. I love where they are going with it.

 

[jailbird20022]

The pistol will be good?

His will be done

Uncapped carbine, plz 343.

 

[AlStrong]

It doesn't really make sense for sticks either. People use the "flight controls" argument to explain it, but flight controls maintain consistency by having left/right be roll, not yaw. In FPS games where it's yaw, vertical inverted creates an inconsistency in how left/right is interpreted versus up/down.

Damn it.

Next we'll have 343i trying to make things consistent not just with the story, but the controls!

 

[Stinkles]

It doesn't really make sense for sticks either. People use the "flight controls" argument to explain it, but flight controls maintain consistency by having left/right be roll, not yaw. In FPS games where it's yaw, vertical inverted creates an inconsistency in how left/right is interpreted versus up/down.

Joystick on the back of my head. Push up, tilt my head down. Push down, tilt my head up. It does make sense, but the fact is that if I play default for say five minutes, it's really confusing to go back to inverted. However, I never get good with default, just passable.

 

[dwells]

Goldeneye was pretty bad tbh.

You're a bad person.

I don't invert with a mouse, btw. Only makes sense for sticks.

It hurts me how I'm agreeing with Frankie right now. Not as much as it hurts me when I agree with Jem, but it's close.

Has it ever been considered to include a short tutorial mode in? I think I remember seeing that CS:GO had a target shooting mode that explicitly teaches a lot of the mechanics. I know it's not ideal to force players to play a learning mode but there's definitely been stuff in previous Halos that can be tough to learn without reading up online (Halo 3's non hitscan BR for example)

It blows my mind that they made the drastic switch over to the non-hitscan BR in Halo 3 without explaining it in-game. "Hey guys, we radically changed how the key weapon in the game functions, but you're supposed to just figure out that it not hitting the things you point it at is by design and not just a result of lag like you're accustomed to!"

I didn't play much Halo 3 since I wasn't a fan of it and just jumped ship after I got my 50s in Slayer and MLG, but I played a decent amount. And I did it the entire time thinking the BR was even more of a random chance thing than it was (which is still a lot) and never knowing about leading and the projectile design. It wasn't until Reach when I started playing Halo with some of my friends who played 3 throughout its whole life that I found out about the BR from them.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Any day Ram.

Now I need a more disturbing avatar.

I am open to all suggestions.