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[Devolution]

While men may be biologically stronger and faster, it doesn't make it any more unique to show men doing those listed things, because females are certainly capable of them too.

And even then, nobody on this planet has the finger tip strength to do what Drake does, so why are we talking about realism in games as a reason to choose men over women in these roles?

Games like SR and ME get it right on that front, in my opinion.

Also juices you can't have it both ways. Look at Halo, it's a fucking cyborgesque dude fighting space aliens. Yeah we gotta keep it realistic and have a man as the protagonist or else people might question the realism of our game. Fucking please.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I'm sure it's old, but I had not seen this image before :

In memoriam of Halo 3’s crunch, a crudely drawn picture of an airplane, flying perilously low thanks to the weight of shipping the successor to Halo 3, showed up on a white board in the middle of the office. Throughout the two and a half-year long development cycle for Halo 3, various features, levels and ideas had been drawn - all being ejected from the spiraling Halo 3 plane. Harold’s pneumonia –addled lungs, Tag Builds and Personal Hygiene boxes plummeted earthward from the badly illustrated plane, to land in a graveyard of hopes and dreams.

 

[FyreWulff]

That Bechdel thing is pretty interesting, and both Perfect Dark and Beyond Good and Evil pass the test.

edit:

This should have been thrown off Reach's plane as well

 

[Ramirez]

At the end of the day, does it really matter? Basically 95% of all game characters are completely forgettable, male or female.

 

[Trey]

That Bechdel thing is pretty interesting, and both Perfect Dark and Beyond Good and Evil pass the test.

KotOR2.

I can't pimp that game enough, lol. Ignore the bugs/glitches/rushed ending; enjoy great writing. Damn near an Obsidian tagline.

At the end of the day, does it really matter? Basically 95% of all game characters are completely forgettable, male or female.

It's starting to, yeah. The growing voices of dissent will only grow louder. Valve is really good about this sort of thing in their games, both racially and on gender. Too bad their lead has only garnered lukewarm followship.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

At the end of the day, does it really matter? Basically 95% of all game characters are completely forgettable, male or female.

Yes, it matters.

Spoiler

Oh god, it's 5am, I must stop posting and go to bed.

 

[zap]

I'm sure it's old, but I had not seen this image before :

Banshee aiming down.

...

Edit: Damn it Fyre

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Also juices you can't have it both ways. Look at Halo, it's a fucking cyborgesque dude fighting space aliens. Yeah we gotta keep it realistic and have a man as the protagonist or else people might question the realism of our game. Fucking please.

I understand but thats a paradox in itself, because its in the future so realistically all that shit is realistic.

I'm not even saying that stuff above either. What I am saying is simple.

1. Men are physically superior usually
2. Therefore if a game is about physical stuff it should use a male character to achieve maximum realism.

That's it. Stop.

 

[Devolution]

At the end of the day, does it really matter? Basically 95% of all game characters are completely forgettable, male or female.

Eh. At the end of the day the whole "women suck" mantra that's so entrenched in all things gaming gets me more and more disillusioned with "gaming." And that's why you see a lot of us giving it up or into specific single player games and rarely branching out. At some point it's not worth having a hobby that just reminds you how much little worth you bring to the table.

Mostly I'm just getting tired of my hobby being a fucking reminder of how far my gender still has to go. And the attitudes of fellow gamers just solidifies why I'm becoming more and more detached from gaming.

 

[Ramirez]

KotOR2.

It's starting to, yeah. The growing voices of dissent will only grow louder.

Devo is the first person I've ever seen complain about it, granted I don't come into contact with many female gamers.

Yes, it matters.

I dunno, I guess I just have such a different view on what actually matters in the world that a videogame character being male, female, black, white, etc. is just so miniscule in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Hydranockz]

At the end of the day, does it really matter? Basically 95% of all game characters are completely forgettable, male or female.

Male stereotypes are everywhere too. Clueless, killing machines. Any more intelligent and they are actually visually represented by supermodels or athletes....

 

[Domino Theory]

The Arbiter's a memorable character. I hope he makes a profound return in the new Halo trilogy.

Still my favorite cutscene out of all Halo cutscenes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWLLh8Sr6mM

 

[User 73706]

Hire Juices.

Spoiler

haven't seen trolling this hard in a good long while, mhmm

 

[Trey]

I understand but thats a paradox in itself, because its in the future so realistically all that shit is realistic.

I'm not even saying that stuff above either. What I am saying is simple.

1. Men are physically superior usually
2. Therefore if a game is about physical stuff it should use a male character to achieve maximum realism.

That's it. Stop.

Good things game don't go for maximum realism (tm).

 

[Devolution]

Good things game don't go for maximum realism (tm).

Considering that many of the games have altered or cybernetic people it makes even less sense to stick with the "men are physically superior" trope when they're half robot anyway.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Devo is the first person I've ever seen complain about it, granted I don't come into contact with many female gamers.

I have pretty great debates/discussions with female gamer friends (benefits of being in a University with a Games Dev Course).

I dunno, I guess I just have such a different view on what actually matters in the world that a videogame character being male, female, black, white, etc. is just so miniscule in the grand scheme of things.

Well it is and it isn't. We are on a Video Game Discussion Board remember?
Devo is right, the point is that this kind of diminishment of respect for females propagates across different media so you kind of have to fight it at every step.
Just like every "ism".

Considering that many of the games have altered or cybernetic people it makes even less sense to stick with the "men are physically superior" trope when they're half robot anyway.

"I never asked for this."

Alright. That's it. Bed!

 

[Ramirez]

Male stereotypes are everywhere too. Clueless, killing machines. Any more intelligent and they are actually visually represented by supermodels or athletes....

Which is what I said earlier, pretty much every VG character is a stereotype, or a complete throw away in characterization that I don't see the reason in dwelling on if they're male or female.

We are on a Video Game Discussion Board remember?

I'm just here to dong.

 

[Devolution]

The Arbiter's a memorable character. I hope he makes a profound return in the new Halo trilogy.

Still my favorite cutscene out of all Halo cutscenes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWLLh8Sr6mM

I think someone in the Halo 4 thread (gaming side) didn't even like the Arbiter, I just shook my head.

 

[Trey]

The Arbiter's a memorable character. I hope he makes a profound return in the new Halo trilogy.

Still my favorite cutscene out of all Halo cutscenes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWLLh8Sr6mM

I really liked Halo 2's art direction. It's really striking after not seeing it in a while.

Devo is the first person I've ever seen complain about it, granted I don't come into contact with many female gamers.



I dunno, I guess I just have such a different view on what actually matters in the world that a videogame character being male, female, black, white, etc. is just so miniscule in the grand scheme of things.

People like to be represented believably, especially in a medium they enjoy. I can understand Devo's frustration because it's not so much that there are few good female leads, but there are so many terrible stereotypical representations of the gender in the medium, so much so that it's becoming how certain people view women. Gaming isn't the only thing guilty of this, but seeing as how it's the topic of discussion, that's where we're at.

Also, the worst male gaming stereotype right now is the "bro". And even then, they are at least functional mentally, and make up for it by being a man's man badass. So I don't think the argument "everybody gets some" is really palatable.

And I'm a guy that tries to ignore all that stuff and focus on the gameplay (because if I have to ignore it, it usually means the game isn't worth the thought from a storyline standpoint).

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Considering that many of the games have altered or cybernetic people it makes even less sense to stick with the "men are physically superior" trope when they're half robot anyway.

I agree too once you get into cybernetics and guns you can start placing women in as fighters because muscle strength factor is less important and it makes sense.

Also once we start developing more games that aren't about fucking shit up, go ahead and place women in more main roles.

I like women in Mass Effect, you go up and talk to them and they talk like normal people and not just ditzy ass. Certain games do it well.

Hire Juices.

Spoiler

haven't seen trolling this hard in a good long while, mhmm

This shit is stupid and unneccesary and a biased attack. Explain how I'm trolling? I feel everything I've said has been pretty fair and correct and unoffensive.

 

[User 73706]

Considering that many of the games have altered or cybernetic people it makes even less sense to stick with the "men are physically superior" trope when they're half robot anyway.

That's why I loved the Metroid series. Before Zero Suit Samus got established as the new character, she managed to be somewhat deep and just as frightening as mascots like the Chief. Several things of Prime concept art show that she's pretty much one with the suit, and just as long as they don't focus too hard on directly telling a story (Super Metroid has pretty much no dialogue, minus internal monologues, but still tells a wonderful story in the end), she's an incredibly believable character for the universe.

Spoiler

I also loved her appearance (how she looked, not as in a cameo) at the end of the first Prime game. It struck me as the least sexualized and most believable

 

[Hydranockz]

I really liked Halo 2's art direction. It's really striking after not seeing it in a while.




People like to be represented believably, especially in a medium they enjoy. I can understand Devo's frustration because it's not so much that there are few good female leads, but there are so many terrible stereotypical representations of the gender in the medium, so much so that it's becoming how certain people view women. Gaming isn't the only thing guilty of this, but seeing as how it's the topic of discussion, that's where we're at.

Is that the case with men too?

 

[Steelyuhas]

Amazing.

At the end of the day, does it really matter? Basically 95% of all game characters are completely forgettable, male or female.

Sadly, outside of a handful of games, this is pretty much true.

The Arbiter's a memorable character. I hope he makes a profound return in the new Halo trilogy.

Still my favorite cutscene out of all Halo cutscenes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWLLh8Sr6mM

So good.

*Cringes at Bungie sidelining their best character in Halo 3. smh*

 

[Devolution]

Is that the case with men too?

No. You have plenty of main characters to sympathize with and characters that span a much more diverse range. (I'm not just talking games.)

 

[Ramirez]

People like to be represented believably, especially in a medium they enjoy. I can understand Devo's frustration because it's not so much that there are few good female leads, but there are so many terrible stereotypical representations of the gender in the medium, so much so that it's becoming how certain people view women. Gaming isn't the only thing guilty of this, but seeing as how it's the topic of discussion, that's where we're at.

lol, do we have any factual evidence to back such a claim up? Just because some random retards on Xbox Live go stupid when a girl is placed among them doesn't mean everyone views women as T&A.

Also, completely irrelevant to the topic, but I expect all of you young gunz who missed out on the Dreamcast to pick this up when it comes out on XBLA.

http://blogs.sega.com/2012/02/23/guess-whos-back/#more-12966

I also read in that thread that it's rumored Shenmue will be getting a port as well, Thermight, here's your chance to experience the Dreamcast in all its glory!

 

[Hydranockz]

No. You have plenty of main characters to sympathize with and characters that span a much more diverse range. (I'm not just talking games.)

Talk games then.

 

[Devolution]

lol, do we have any factual evidence to back such a claim up? Just because some random retards on Xbox Live go stupid when a girl is placed among them doesn't mean everyone views women as T&A.

When media reinforces the notion that all women are is objects for sexual gratification or dumbshits that need saving, it does my gender no favors.

 

[Trey]

Just because some random retards on Xbox Live go stupid when a girl is placed among them doesn't mean everyone views women as T&A.

I said certain people, not everyone. I think you covered a large section of my "certain people" criteria.

Is that the case with men too?

I think I covered this in an edit to the post you quoted. You might have missed it.

 

[FyreWulff]

Considering that many of the games have altered or cybernetic people it makes even less sense to stick with the "men are physically superior" trope when they're half robot anyway.

Kat can flip tanks but a 300lb neckbeard could still beat her at arm wrestling! Also women explode when they fire a .45 .

People don't understand the difference between "physical strength advantage" and "physical capability".

 

[Trey]

People don't understand the difference between "physical strength advantage" and "physical capability".

Not realistic (tm) enough.

Not a playable character, but the Boss/The Joy from MGS3. That fucking character right there. The most influential character in the entire franchise.

 

[kittens]

Devo is the first person I've ever seen complain about it, granted I don't come into contact with many female gamers.

Naw, this stuff is important to me, too. It has been for years. It's not just an issue in gaming obviously, but having grown up as a gamer, the lack of female and specifically feminist perspectives has always pissed me off. And on the flip side, the fact that most men are portrayed as hypermacho killing machines pisses me off and alienates me, too.

Obviously I tolerate it (I play Halo), but I definitely see it as a problem, and I want the culture behind it to change.

 

[Trey]

the fact that most men are portrayed as hypermacho killing machines pisses me off and alienates me, too.

That's more of a function of the type of game they generally star in. Very rarely is it an actual part of their character, like Kratos.

Even though Drake mows down thousands, he's portrayed and characterized as a good-natured everyman that anybody could get along with.

 

[Hydranockz]

If they ain't killing machines, they're bodies have been sculpted by the gods.

 

[Thermite]

lol, do we have any factual evidence to back such a claim up? Just because some random retards on Xbox Live go stupid when a girl is placed among them doesn't mean everyone views women as T&A.

Also, completely irrelevant to the topic, but I expect all of you young gunz who missed out on the Dreamcast to pick this up when it comes out on XBLA.

http://blogs.sega.com/2012/02/23/guess-whos-back/#more-12966

I also read in that thread that it's rumored Shenmue will be getting a port as well, Thermight, here's your chance to experience the Dreamcast in all its glory!

I played the fuck out of Jet Set Radio Future when I had it for the original Xbox back in the day, never got to play the Dreamcast one. Is it just as good?

 

[ElRenoRaven]

I played the fuck out of Jet Set Radio Future when I had it for the original Xbox back in the day, never got to play the Dreamcast one. Is it just as good?

Personally I think the Dreamcast one was better then the Xbox sequel.

 

[Trey]

I played the fuck out of Jet Set Radio Future

Everyone sane did. The soundtrack was so good.

 

[Devolution]

Talk games then.

Delita, Grahf, John Marston, Cast of Mass Effect, Heavy Rain cast and that's just my short list of shit I've played or watched friends play. There's a whole range of characters with different motivations and personalities.

 

[daedalius]

The ones they shat on were Samus Aran and Aya.

Just pretend Other M never happened and it will be ok.

That's what I'm doing............ trying.... trying to do.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Personally I think the Dreamcast one was better then the Xbox sequel.

THIS!

JSRF was good and I enjoyed it but the Dreamcast one was far superior

 

[Ramirez]

I played the fuck out of Jet Set Radio Future when I had it for the original Xbox back in the day, never got to play the Dreamcast one. Is it just as good?

Wait, you actual do have some taste? Stop the presses!

It's been so long since I played either one of them, they're pretty similar games though. Seems like I remember Future improving on a lot of the original's flaws, but at the same time changed some stuff that didn't need to change. Foggy memory though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xevC7nT71o

Sweeet Soooul Brothaaa

 

[kittens]

That's more of a function of the type of game they generally star in. Very rarely is it an actual part of their character, like Kratos.

Even though Drake mows down thousands, he's portrated and characterized as a good-natured everyman that anybody could get along with.

I see your point, but those two things aren't intrinsically link. A dude could be a serial killer and still be thoughtful, sincere, well-spoken, emotional, etc. Non-patriarchal and macho.

Also: Never played JSR before. I think I'd really be into it.

 

[Trey]

THIS!

JSRF was good and I enjoyed it but the Dreamcast one was far superior

yup

I played the fuck out of Jet Set Radio Future when I had it for the original Xbox back in the day, never got to play the Dreamcast one. Is it just as good?

Wait, you actual do have some taste? Stop the presses!

It's been so long since I played either one of them, they're pretty similar games though. Seems like I remember Future improving on a lot of the original's flaws, but at the same time changed some stuff that didn't need to change. Foggy memory though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xevC7nT71o

Sweeet Soooul Brothaaa

Gentlemen, this soundtrack. It's actually better than I remember.

I see your point, but those two things aren't intrinsically link. A dude could be a serial killer and still be thoughtful, sincere, well-spoken, emotional, etc. Non-patriarchal and macho.

He could, certainly. But no game (not to my knowledge, anyway) has actually done that. What is possible and what is actually portrayed in game are separate things, and we can only go by what the developers give us. Not many games actually have the main character tackle the ramifications of all that they do in game. It's as if it's a detached part of their person, the gameplay killing, or easily explained or justified.

 

[Ramirez]

Do you guys find this joke funny?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QOIRuc6sZU

My wife called me a perv for finding it hilarious.

 

[wwm0nkey]

You know I just noticed, we are getting all these awesome soundtrack/game play games this year like.

SSX
Jet Set Radio HD
Tony Hawk 1/2 HD


Now all we need is a Burnout game that is like 3 or Revenge this year and it will be the best year in gaming lol

 

[Steelyuhas]

Just pretend Other M never happened and it will be ok.

That's what I'm doing............ trying.... trying to do.

I stayed as far away from that game as humanly possible.

 

[El_Chino]

not sure if this was posted already

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apu13ytTV3s&feature=g-u-u&context=G2c82131FUAAAAAAAAAA

 

[Tashi]

Do you guys find this joke funny?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QOIRuc6sZU

My wife called me a perv for finding it hilarious.

Hahahha yea that was funny.

 

[wwm0nkey]

not sure if this was posted already

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apu13ytTV3s&feature=g-u-u&context=G2c82131FUAAAAAAAAAA

I would approve if the menu theme was something of similar style.

 

[Sai-kun]

Wait, you actual do have some taste? Stop the presses!

It's been so long since I played either one of them, they're pretty similar games though. Seems like I remember Future improving on a lot of the original's flaws, but at the same time changed some stuff that didn't need to change. Foggy memory though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xevC7nT71o

Sweeet Soooul Brothaaa

JSRF has one of the best soundtracks of any game.

I heard this song before I knew where it was used in the game, and when I got to that part, it just blew my 11 year old mind.

 

[Ramirez]

Hahahha yea that was funny.

I love shock/offensive comedy, it takes sooooooo much to offend me, and my wife is the complete opposite, heh.

The best song in Future was Aisle 10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR48y7sR5Tc&feature=BFa&list=HL1330322076&lf=mh_lolz