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[Trey]

It sucks so bad that there are fans of the franchise since the beginning that now hate it.

Shit happens. Halo 4 is at a critical point where two distinct game-design options are at odds with each other. As proof, there are people who dislike what Halo has become as you said, and there are people that never liked Halo before Halo 4.

I don't want to see Halo go one way or the other with regards to multiplayer, because entire factions of Halo fans will be alienated if 343 chooses. Only way in my opinion is to try and appeal to everyone, and to do that, Halo 5's custom options and feature set will need to be greatly improved upon over Halo 4. It needs to be series best in that regard.

 

[orznge]

Shit happens. Halo 4 is at a critical point where two distinct game-design options are at odds with each other. As proof, there are people who dislike what Halo has become as you said, and there are people that never liked Halo before Halo 4.

I don't want to see Halo go one way or the other with regards to multiplayer, because entire factions of Halo fans will be alienated if 343 chooses. Only way in my opinion is to try and appeal to everyone, and to do that, Halo 5's custom options and feature set will need to be greatly improved upon over Halo 4. It needs to be series best.

Halo 5's custom features will not be improved over Halo 4's.

 

[Rev3rb]

Halo 5's custom features will not be improved over Halo 4's.

But.. but... :[

Spoiler

Now with Gun Game options!

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Been reading the last few pages and on the subject of Halo dropping in popularity since Call of Duty got big, I've got some thoughts. Halo 3 was still really big until Reach dropped. I think Halo's decreasing popularity has more to do with Halo's decreasing quality since Halo 3. Halo 3 was the most pure Halo experience on the 360 and it was the most popular and has sold the most. It is no longer a unique experience, there are too many features from other popular games. Halo also was unique because it was the most competitive FPS on consoles, and it had that MLG relationship. Remember all the kids doing anything to get 50s and spending money on every MLG picture pack that dropped on the marketplace? This was still going on while COD4, WaW, and MW2 were big. It started changing when Reach came out and became less competitive, not to mention an inferior game. Halo 4 just took that further.

Yea a lot of people have posted this. This is actually the reality but 343 literally doesnt seem to realize it.

A lot of people need to be shook honestly. They just arent getting it. We just want Halo back, not the game that they think is going to sell a bunch.

Everyone cast your vote by not playing the game. Don't give them your point in the population vote. I havent put H4 in for awhile now. Tell them this isnt what you wanted.

 

[Barrow Roll]

Be specific in who you're talking to then. It's not like all of us go around calling each other Team Downer or Team Slurp or whatever the fuck that drama was. It makes actual discussion two sided instead of nuanced.

Come on Devo, people on both sides of the love/hate throw those sarcastic one liners around. Those same people on both sides have also written long posts detailing why or why they don't like the game, it's all just poking fun at this point. Nobody legitimately uses those terms to be dismissive anymore. No need to be so sensitive, or "sensygaf."

 

[NullPointer]

Come on Devo, people on both sides of the love/hate throw those sarcastic one liners around. Those same people on both sides have also written long posts detailing why or why they don't like the game, it's all just poking fun at this point. No need to be so sensitive.

And you only need to look a few posts up to see what goes for nuance or two-sided conversations here. Shambles. Woudn't be so bad if it wasn't so completely predictable and recycled.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Yea a lot of people have posted this. This is actually the reality but 343 literally doesnt seem to realize it.

A lot of people need to be shook honestly. They just arent getting it. We just want Halo back, not the game that they think is going to sell a bunch.

Everyone cast your vote by not playing the game. Don't give them your point in the population vote. I havent put H4 in for awhile now. Tell them this isnt what you wanted.

Unless you like it, right?

Needs a solid first patch though, and I hope you all get a playlist stripped down if that's what you need.

 

[FyreWulff]

Gears 3 had a nice system where you could choose a mission, and play through to the next if you wanted. Also had JiP, which is most likely a problem for SpOps.

Yup. Doing JiP in a lockstep networked game mode is a bitch and consumes more bandwidth than MS allows.

The 'easy' way of doing it is essentially stopping the game, then sending the new person joining a film of the game up to that point that their box simulates in fast-forward to get to the same point you're at.

Now remember that campaign/firefight/spops sessions could be really long up to that point, so you're waiting for the game to send a 30MB film to two people.. yeah.

 

[Rev3rb]

Hmm... I wonder, what will the first title update contain.

 

[malfcn]

Frankie's job isn't in trouble is it?

 

[HigherLevel]

Frankie's job isn't in trouble is it?

Why would it be?

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

What are you guys who are quitting gonna play? Nothing? BF3? COD? I must know!

(Need to know what else to spend money on.

I'll still mostly be playing Halo though.

 

[OverHeat]

Frankie's job isn't in trouble is it?

No it's Kevin Franklin who is in trouble

 

[senador]

I highly doubt anyone is "in trouble".

 

[Rev3rb]

What are you guys who are quitting gonna play? Nothing? BF3? COD? I must know!

(Need to know what else to spend money on.

I'll still mostly be playing Halo though.

Spoiler

Reach

 

[OverHeat]

What are you guys who are quitting gonna play? Nothing? BF3? COD? I must know!

(Need to know what else to spend money on.

I'll still mostly be playing Halo though.

It's all about BLOPS 2

 

[Devolution]

What are you guys who are quitting gonna play? Nothing? BF3? COD? I must know!

(Need to know what else to spend money on.

I'll still mostly be playing Halo though.

Nada. Gotta spend more time designing anyway.

 

[kittens]

What are you guys who are quitting gonna play? Nothing? BF3? COD? I must know!

Advance Wars and F-Zero.

 

[HigherLevel]

What are you guys who are quitting gonna play? Nothing? BF3? COD? I must know!

(Need to know what else to spend money on.

I'll still mostly be playing Halo though.

I'll just be playing SP games like AC3, working on another playthrough of Mass Effect 3, and Bayonetta. There will also be plenty of games of 2K13. I'm honestly just waiting on Destiny news now. I just can't see Halo ever being what it used to be again at this point.

I would love for 343 to prove me wrong with a TU or Halo 5 but I doubt it will happen.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

It's all about BLOPS 2

I've heard people coming the other way complaining that BLOPS 2 is a "worse" experience. I keep bouncing back and forth about getting it.

Spoiler

Reach

Fuck. No.

Nada. Gotta spend more time designing anyway.

Dat adulthood.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Frankie's job isn't in trouble is it?

I imagine the game sold well. That graph is troubling though. Maybe thats just the initial casual crowd leaving and it will settle somewhere but still seems like a low # to settle on a few weeks in.

 

[neoism]

Frankie's job isn't in trouble is it?

lol no the game made about 400+ mill he beallright I think hes on 2 weeks of vacation ....

 

[senador]

I imagine the game sold well. That graph is troubling though. Maybe thats just the initial casual crowd leaving and it will settle somewhere but still seems like a low # to settle on a few weeks in.

I imagine it'll go back up to some degree after new games settle out, new maps, playlist changes, and Christmas.

 

[MrDaravon]

Yeah, after a night of KotH (which I actually do like in this) and BTB I think I'm done. Just so many different issues, and like Kyle I feel it's just random and boring. CoD gets away with it (in my opinion) because it's even faster paced than this game, and more over the top ridiculous shit is happening. Here they just threw in some of those ideas and didn't balance it for shit in existing Halo maps/weapons/mechanics. Nothing like spawning behind your base on Ragnarok only to die before you can even get to cover because the entire enemy team is sitting on the hill with DMRs. That wasn't possible in Halo 3 for a variety of reasons, and yet no real change was made to the map when it was put into Halo 4 to accommodate.

I don't hate the game, and I enjoy it sometimes, but most of the time it's me just not giving a fuck, and that's when it's not either searching forever to find a game (BTB seemingly refuses to start unless it has the full 16, whereas smaller playlists WILL start with not full teams which makes no goddamn sense), matchmaking gets aborted, or any of a million other things. Combined with a lackluster Campaign and Spartan Ops being dogshit (unless they're saving all the awesome shit for Chapter 5+, which is poor design) this just isn't doing anything for me, and if it didn't have the Halo name on it I don't think most people would care beyond the game looking amazing graphically. I'll probably win a few more games to hit the 117 wins Challenge because I hate myself, get the last few achievements the day Chapter 5 goes out, then trade it in to Gamestop before the 30-day extra credit bonus expires. In hindsight I'm super glad I cancelled my LE, and that I hadn't gotten around to buying the Season Pass.

 

[Fracas]

What are you guys who are quitting gonna play? Nothing? BF3? COD? I must know!

(Need to know what else to spend money on.

I'll still mostly be playing Halo though.

I bought ACIII, Forza Horizon, Dead Island GOTY, Max Payne 3, and Spec Ops: The Line on Black Friday. Should keep my busy til the spring. I'll still play this game every now and then, but not hardly as much as I did with other games.

edit: shut up franklin

 

[Franklinator]

What are you guys who are quitting gonna play? Nothing? BF3? COD? I must know!

(Need to know what else to spend money on.

I'll still mostly be playing Halo though.

I got a bunch of games on Black Friday, so I'm gonna play those. I started Torchlight 2 with a friend of mine and it's awesome.

 

[OverHeat]

I've heard people coming the other way complaining that BLOPS 2 is a "worse" experience. I keep bouncing back and forth about getting it.



Fuck. No.



Dat adulthood.

Seriously I bought it and I only play 3 games online and it look OK. Not much time for gaming these day and I chose to put more time on H4.

 

[MinkTANK]

What are you guys who are quitting gonna play? Nothing? BF3? COD? I must know!

(Need to know what else to spend money on.

I'll still mostly be playing Halo though.

PC stuffs and shit.

Liking the look of Planetside 2 and Natural Selection 2 at the mo'.

 

[heckfu]

Fleshlight simulator. Low population numbers but it's still a good game.


Also, quit retweeting Marty. Worst twitter account ever

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I wonder how much of this is just "people growing up" too.

I don't play near as much as I used to, and if I based my perceived enjoyment of games based on play time, all games since I was 25 would suck compared to games I played before that.

Either way, I'm gonna play shit I have fun with, and this is fun. I do hope they fix some shit though.

Might get Blops 2 if enough here get it.

 

[Fotos]

I have BLOPS 2 and I think the multilayer is the worst ever. All the maps are shit. Zombies is also terrible. I wish they would just make maps and not make it complicated with building items and that stupid bus. I don't think any COD will ever be as good as Call of Duty 4. I am still sticking with Halo 4. Also I think the population will go and stay up when the DLC comes out on the 10th. After COD gets boring in a month people will come back.

 

[Devolution]

I wonder how much of this is just "people growing up" too.

I don't play near as much as I used to, and if I based my perceived enjoyment of games based on play time, all games since I was 25 would suck compared to games I played before that.

Either way, I'm gonna play shit I have fun with, and this is fun. I do hope they fix some shit though.

Might get Blops 2 if enough here get it.

Not having to grind stuff is (WAS) one of the perks of Halo.

 

[FyreWulff]

;_;

 

[Karl2177]

Wow. SpOps 4 not fun. I quit halfway through the Valhalla mission. I'll pick it up again tomorrow to see if my mood about it has improved, but no guarantees.

I seem to remember in one of the Halo 4 BTSes that Frank said something along the lines of "We needed a new way to introduce enemies to an encounter." I can tell you that teleporting Prometheans on top of the player is not a good way of doing that. Here's why:

-Players prioritize targets. They do this based on the order in which they see them and then assign a priority to them(a priority queue for you few programmers). If a player sees a Fuel Rod Elite, it has a higher priority than a Plasma Pistol Grunt. When everything is instantly spawning around the player, there isn't enough time for the player to get all of the variables and assign priorities to enemies and track their locations. A great example of an encounter where priority assignments come in is the river section of Sierra 117 in Halo 3. The player sees the purple Jackal heads and knows that they are the biggest threat. The player takes them out first with whatever precision weapon they can find. Then they proceed to take out the Brutes, Grunts, and Jackals in a different order depending on other variables.

-Enemies can have instant-kill weapons. Now this can lead to an entirely different rant about whether enemies should have OHK weapons, but that's another 2500 character post. Since they can teleport anywhere with a weapon that can instantly kill, the player loses control points simply because the enemy teleported there at a random moment to the player. It is even more map breaking than Jetpack in multiplayer. When the player dies to one of these weapons, chances are they are going to spawn right in front of it again.

-The player analyzes routes that the enemies can take to get to them, and prepares a preemptive defense. In previous games, this would be taken out by massive amounts of small infantry or by the cunning of larger infantry. The player's initial defense was taken out, but if the player was smart enough, there is a back up plan such as retreating, using a piece of equipment to turn the tide of battle in favor for them, or even shooting a grenade on the ground to create a confetti of dead enemies.​

A few notes for my later analysis: The Knights feel like a poor version of the Halo 2 Brute to me. There isn't a clear way to take them out. I can see a slight blue pop when their shields are gone, but it is incredibly faint. Also, once the shields are popped, there isn't a clear way to kill them aside from pumping them full of lead and hope they fall over. There isn't a headshot(and if there is, it is incredibly inconsistent). The Crawlers feel like a 2-dimensional Halo Reach drone. Shooting them in the head is satisfying, but finding the head is a pain. Watchers need a clear way of knowing how much damage they have taken. I only know that they take 4 DMR shots to blow up, and my way of killing them is counting the DMR shots that hit.

 

[HigherLevel]

I wonder how much of this is just "people growing up" too.

I don't play near as much as I used to, and if I based my perceived enjoyment of games based on play time, all games since I was 25 would suck compared to games I played before that.

Either way, I'm gonna play shit I have fun with, and this is fun. I do hope they fix some shit though.

Might get Blops 2 if enough here get it.

Maybe, but if I find a good lag free match of Halo 3 I have 10x more fun than any other FPS on the 360. I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.

 

[Thermite]

What are you guys who are quitting gonna play? Nothing? BF3? COD? I must know!

(Need to know what else to spend money on.

I'll still mostly be playing Halo though.

Dota 2, a real man's video game. It's been my main multiplayer game since Reach killed Halo.

 

[MrDaravon]

What are you guys who are quitting gonna play? Nothing? BF3? COD? I must know!

(Need to know what else to spend money on.

I'll still mostly be playing Halo though.

Specifically for multiplayer my group is actually going back to MW2, at least partially. BO2 is a good game, but I think CoD fatigue in general has kind of set in, and on principle after the whole Nuketown bullshit I sold my copy anyway. In hindsight BO1 was probably the most balanced of the last few CoD games, but we had the most fun with MW2, and it was $10 on Black Friday so I picked it up. We played some over the weekend and it holds up surprisingly well, at least assuming you liked it to begin with. Normally we'd flip-flop between the most recent Halo and most recent CoD, but with Halo 4 out of the picture we're sure as fuck not going back to Reach, and Halo 3 has serious population issues as well as quitters, blackscreens, etc so that's not really viable unfortunately.

If my friends played Diablo 3 we'd probably be playing that :/

Edit: Oh, forgot about Borderlands 2. We all have the Season Pass for that, so that'll be a thing for a while as DLC comes out.

 

[Booshka]

I put the "I Voted" sticker on the bottom left part of my Halo 4 case because I thought that was the most appropriate place to put it. I should trade it in, just to see what the clerks at the store think about it, or if I have to somehow take it off before I can trade it in.

 

[Rev3rb]

 

[MrDaravon]

Regardless of the game's quality, I think it really hurt them putting it out a week before CoD. Either they were confident it would compete with it (which it probably did short-term, but will probably be worse for it long-term), or more likely they just couldn't get it done earlier. A September release, or the November release with a beta earlier in the year would have done wonders. I bet those numbers would have looked the same for Reach if it had come out a week before CoD.

 

[NullPointer]

A few notes for my later analysis: The Knights feel like a poor version of the Halo 2 Brute to me. There isn't a clear way to take them out. I can see a slight blue pop when their shields are gone, but it is incredibly faint. Also, once the shields are popped, there isn't a clear way to kill them aside from pumping them full of lead and hope they fall over. There isn't a headshot(and if there is, it is incredibly inconsistent). The Crawlers feel like a 2-dimensional Halo Reach drone. Shooting them in the head is satisfying, but finding the head is a pain. Watchers need a clear way of knowing how much damage they have taken. I only know that they take 4 DMR shots to blow up, and my way of killing them is counting the DMR shots that hit.

Knights and Brutes are kindof similar. But you can headshot Knights. Pop their shields and then pop off their head armor, and then go for the final headshot. It can be hard to notice though.

Watchers do that little fold-over move (I'd guess to minimize their profile) and then scurry away when they're hurting - its maybe one or two shots to take them down from this point.

But yeah, spawning in and one-shot-kill weapons can both be extremely annoying and lead to cheap deaths.

Reach brought some really nice stuff into the fold: Invasion, Firefight and Campaign Matchmaking iirc, or was campaign matchmaking in Halo 3 too?

 

[FyreWulff]

Regardless of the game's quality, I think it really hurt them putting it out a week before CoD. Either they were confident it would compete with it (which it probably did short-term, but will probably be worse for it long-term), or more likely they just couldn't get it done earlier. A September release, or the November release with a beta earlier in the year would have done wonders. I bet those numbers would have looked the same for Reach if it had come out a week before CoD.

That's a year after Reach was out. September 2011.


The earliest numbers we have for Reach is November 2010:

 

[Der Flatulator]

Reach brought some really nice stuff into the fold: Invasion, Firefight and Campaign Matchmaking iirc, or was campaign matchmaking in Halo 3 too?

FF was in ODST... Campaign Matchmaking was only in Reach.

edit: nm, you probably meant FF MM, read that wrong. FF MM and Campaign MM have only been in Reach.

 

[CyReN]

Don't worry everyone will be back when this ranking system kicks in.

 

[Digital Limit]

MLG Infinity Slayer uses Jetpack by default? Seems like Thruster Pack would be more interesting to watch.

 

[Booshka]

Don't worry everyone will be back when this ranking system kicks in.

Sad if true, Halo will never get better if just adding Rank is the solution to most people.

 

[FyreWulff]

MLG Infinity Slayer uses Jetpack by default? Seems like Thruster Pack would be more interesting to watch.

Watch MLG Halo? At what tournament?

 

[Ramirez]

It sucks so bad that there are fans of the franchise since the beginning that now hate it.

This is true of pretty much any big franchise. Look at Star Wars fans, heh.

 

[Merguson]

There were rumors that Destiny plays "quite like Halo".

I believe in it far more than I probably should, but if it's half as good as the original Halo trilogy, I'll be hooked. I think they learned from their missteps with Reach.

Who here thinks Destiny won't have any form of competitive multiplayer?

I get the feeling they have moved away from that.. but that's just me..

 

[NullPointer]

FF was in ODST... Campaign Matchmaking was only in Reach.

edit: nm, you probably meant FF MM, read that wrong. FF MM and Campaign MM have only been in Reach.

I meant both actually, as I count ODST as a side project and I'd guess more people got a taste of Firefight through playing Reach, even if it didn't debut there.

So if we're looking at online numbers - there was a lot to do in Reach, a lot of new stuff on offer, and it all had legs, not only because a lot was tested in the beta and tweaked, but also stuff like theater and fileshares were available. Challenges were new, and kept people going back in, and every mode had scoring and customization.

To the extent Halo 4's populations drop, I think we have to add a lack of wholly new modes and unfinished or cut community features in there as reasons, not just the competitive gripes.

No Ghaleon campaign/firefight picture posts are what bums me out about Halo 4.

Who here thinks Destiny won't have any form of competitive multiplayer?

I honestly can't imagine it.