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[User 73706]

So not only do we show where the weapon spawns but remind bad kids when it comes up?

...no, no no no no. no.

Casuals can suck it. Timing is an acquired skill, people can play forever and not take advantage of this skill, its adding a different level of planning and preparation and thinking above the immediacy of each individual battle.

Excited for cookie cutter responses from lead MP designer.

Don't worry, they have a workaround to balance it! Using your spartan's patented "Suitamogram" technology, you can spawn with an armor ability that summons fake ordnance indicators for teammates and enemies alike. But wait, there's more! As a pre-order bonus you can unlock the "Shitamajigger" tactical package, which completely eliminates your HUD except for the white text to counter it!

 

[Poker Face]

just downloaded a regicide gametype where you spawn with target locator and if you're king you're a giant flood with binary rifle and incineration cannon. it's one of the most download gametypes

pretty cool stuff

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Sounds good.

Knowing spawn times is not a skill. Putting them to use is.

Jesus christ, its like all common sense is out the window at GAF.

Of course knowing the spawn times is not a skill, that is knowledge. Applying the knowledge to your gameplay is the skill. Guess what people dont actively think micro/macro always and balancing that thought is pretty intensive. Being able to not only focus on the instant but preparing for whats ahead.

Removing this is just coddling. Its unneccasary. Players can watch the theater or they SHOULD be shown the spawns on the map before the game starts, but thats another story.

 

[TheOddOne]

So not only do we show where the weapon spawns but remind bad kids when it comes up?

...no, no no no no. no.

Casuals can suck it. Timing is an acquired skill, people can play forever and not take advantage of this skill, its adding a different level of planning and preparation and thinking above the immediacy of each individual battle.

Excited for cookie cutter responses from lead MP designer.

They could sanction off the new stuff to the social playlist and the classic setting to the ranked playlists, but no that would mean too many playlists. Bleh.

 

[wwm0nkey]

just downloaded a regicide gametype where you spawn with target locator and if you're king you're a giant flood with binary rifle and incineration cannon. it's one of the most download gametypes

pretty cool stuff

Downloaded that too. Really fun actually.

 

[YourExWife]

Sounds good.

Knowing spawn times is not a skill. Putting them to use is.

Executing based upon learned knowledge and experience is a skill. gtfo

ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, etc.

 

[orznge]

Sounds good.

Knowing spawn times is not a skill. Putting them to use is.

being a person who has played multiple deathmatch games at a "serious" level, I can tell you with 100% certainty that being able to utilize spawn times without a hud element explicitly laying them out is a skill; I'd go on about short-term memory and mental agility but it's honestly not a huge deal compared to the rest of a game's design; if 343 told me that I could have movement/autoaim/magnetism that aren't complete ass in exchange for adding spawn timers to the hud I'd take their offer in an instant

 

[Overdoziz]

Sounds good.

Knowing spawn times is not a skill. Putting them to use is.

Keeping a cool head and keeping track of spawn times is definitely something you could call a skill. I would be fine with just having a waypoint above power weapons while using the classic spawning system. But there should be no warning before it spawns so people who do keep track of when weapons spawn exactly still get rewarded for doing so. Sounds like a fair compromise.

 

[orznge]

I was actually thinking about weapon spawn stuff earlier today before this discussion came up and I thought a neat way to do it would be to have a visible waypoints at weapon spawns and to color the waypoint red, yellow, or green based on how soon it was going to spawn

 

[Ghazi]

So someone should give me one good reason on why having spawns show up on the HUD is a good idea.

Because I don't think that there is any, why cater to the casuals when they're just going to have their fun with you until something they like better is out. (See 400k Halo 4 population that nearly 80% of ditched to go play CoD)

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Keeping a cool head and keeping track of spawn times is definitely something you could call a skill. I would be fine with just having a waypoint above power weapons while using the classic spawning system. But there should be no warning before it spawns so people who do keep track of when weapons spawn exactly still get rewarded for doing so. Sounds like a fair compromise.

I AM THE MASTER OF TRACKING SPAWN TIMES.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

So someone should give me one good reason on why having spawns show up on the HUD is a good idea.

Because I don't think that there is any, why cater to the casuals when they're just going to have their fun with you until something they like better is out. (See 400k Halo 4 population that nearly 80% of ditched to go play CoD)

I like this guy.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Guys go to gametypes and download DF. Its a regicide gametype and players are all tiny and the king is 200%.

If the game made a mario sound when you became the king it would be perfect!

 

[NullPointer]

Keeping a cool head and keeping track of spawn times is definitely something you could call a skill. I would be fine with just having a waypoint above power weapons while using the classic spawning system. But there should be no warning before it spawns so people who do keep track of when weapons spawn exactly still get rewarded for doing so. Sounds like a fair compromise.

I guess I just don't understand the desire to make basic knowledge hidden. If you expose that stuff, players of all skill levels can plan and act upon it without needing to bust open Forge to record the stuff or analyze settings out of band.

To me skill is how you utilize the information you have, not in having access to it.

What you gain by keeping spawn times hidden: Plenty of noobs who have no idea getting beaten to the power weapons.
What you gain by exposing spawn times: Even new players realize that spawn timing is an asset and its reinforced via the UI. Players of all levels then seek to control those spawn points before ordnance arrives.

It just seems like pro players wanting a kettle of the blind to dong on rather than raising the knowledge floor to make more players competitive.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Forward Unto Dawn Fiction and Campaign Co-Op Night Concludes

What?

Forward Unto Dawn concludes its co-op playthrough of the game's campaign, and all are welcome! This week is final mission "Midnight". We're not going to be setting any speedruns--rather, the playthrough is an opportunity to discuss Halo's fiction, explore the levels, and experience the story to the fullest.

When?
Tonight, 01/29/13, at 8pm EST (UTC-5). Expect it to last about 90 minutes or a bit longer--we take the scenic route.

How?
Let me know you're interested in playing by sending my XBL account a message (the GT is Pixelfox). I'll start sending out invites five minutes before 8pm, and we should be on our way within ten minutes.

If you have any questions let me know here or shoot me a message! Hope to see you there.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

So that cat I got has settled in really well .

 

[Gui_PT]

So do you guys still have customs going on during the weekends or what?

 

[Ghazi]

So that cat I got has settled in really well .

Those eyes, your cat is a Promethean!

 

[TheOddOne]

So that cat I got has settled in really well .

Is that the Darksiders II mask? If so (or not), that is one badass looking thing.

Edit: Random video.

 

[Tashi]

I know Tashi said he has the right to ignore some of the questions we want to ask him, I just hope you'll still allow some harder hitting ones.

That's the worst part about when IGN or some shit interviews a dev. It's the same easy responses.

Don't confuse the idea of me not allowing some questions with me throwing out the "harder hitting ones" I only have a certain amount of time with the guy and I really want to get as much in as I can. While it would be nice to have a couple hours with Kevin talking about all the design decisions that went into the game, I think it would more beneficial to see what's coming down the line for Halo 4. There are a lot of interesting questions that arise from the fact that the Competitive playlist is going to be so radically different from stock Halo 4. I also want to talk about CSR a bunch too.

I feel like some of you guys (I'm not directing this at you Tawpgun) are dying to for 343 to admit to something and say, "yea, we fucked up, sorry. I don't know why we made random global ordnance, it was a bad idea" Or whatever other issue some of you might have with Halo 4.

Also, just keep in mind that this interview will most likely be reviewed by PR before it hits your ears. That doesn't mean it's going to be some boring, on message interview. It just means that there are certain upcoming things in Halo 4 that 343 doesn't want to talk about yet (DLC maps, TU)

Keep the questions coming though, I definitely got some good ones.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Is that the Darksiders II mask? If so (or not), that is one badass looking thing.

Edit: Random video.

Yeah it is, Next to the H4 Cryo pod and the Skyrim Dragon, on top of the BL2 look chest.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

I guess I just don't understand the desire to make basic knowledge hidden. If you expose that stuff, players of all skill levels can plan and act upon it without needing to bust open Forge to record the stuff or analyze settings out of band.

To me skill is how you utilize the information you have, not in having access to it.

What you gain by keeping spawn times hidden: Plenty of noobs who have no idea getting beaten to the power weapons.
What you gain by exposing spawn times: Even new players realize that spawn timing is an asset and its reinforced via the UI. Players of all levels then seek to control those spawn points before ordnance arrives.

It just seems like pro players wanting a kettle of the blind to dong on rather than raising the knowledge floor to make more players competitive.

This removes part of the skill gap between casuals and pros. You are taking away learning curve.

This annoys better players because they worked towards these skills then the game goes and removes it...Halo's have constantly been doing this and its so dumbed down when you mention competitive Halo people generally laugh...especially PC gamers.

We want them to figure it out and go "oh thats cool I could use that information" its like this path people take and then go holy shit Halo is a cool game I really like this...

Without it its just casual BK bonanza. You tell all the players " Rockets coming in 30 secodns" who the hell isnt going to follow that advice. All that skill and knowledge doesnt need to be utilized actively, just passively, like watching TV.

 

[Havok]

We've already had a gametype where power weapons spawned in after a countdown: Invasion Slayer.

It was complete and total garbage. All that ends up happening is that as soon as the countdown gets low, jackasses shove their way to the front and mash X/RB/whatever button to try to get it before the people that actually secured the area. The last thing Halo 4 needs is more HUD elements and more of Steitzer's blabbermouth.

Replace that now-boring loading screen with an overhead view of the map with important weapon spawns marked with respawn times included. The information is exposed, but not intrusive. If people are too stupid or lazy to do basic math and figure out when the respawns are up, then fuck 'em.

 

[Fotos]

Yeah it is, Next to the H4 Cryo pod and the Skyrim Dragon, on top of the BL2 look chest.

How much would you say all of that has costed?

 

[TheOddOne]

Yeah it is, Next to the H4 Cryo pod and the Skyrim Dragon, on top of the BL2 look chest.

I wish I bought Darksiders II to help THQ. Would not have made a difference, but it would count for something. Alas was strapped for money at the time.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Yeah it is, Next to the H4 Cryo pod and the Skyrim Dragon, on top of the BL2 look chest.

If you're ever looking to get rid of that Skyrim artbook, remember me.

 

[HTupolev]

Replace that now-boring loading screen with an overhead view of the map with important weapon spawns marked with respawn times included. The information is exposed, but not intrusive. If people are too stupid or lazy to do basic math and figure out when the respawns are up, then fuck 'em.

That actually might make sense. That way, the knowledge is made quite available but still integrated smoothly into gameplay without lots of flashy nonsense.

If it means getting rid of that weird subtle loading screen beeping, that's awesome too.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

How much would you say all of that has costed?

Its the tip of the iceberg my room is full of collectors shit I wouldnt even like to start counting it but its in the couple of thousand market. Maybe around £3000 - £3500. Its only going to keep growing.

Some "big" items not on display include

Portal Gun
Golden Lancer
Golden Retro Lancer
4 Limited Edition Xboxs
Disney Oswald Statue.

I think I'm going to step up my quality of purchases this year and start getting some of the high end Marvel/DC figures.

If you're ever looking to get rid of that Skyrim artbook, remember me.

Will do but its unlikely I'm building a fairly decent artbook collection.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Its the tip of the iceberg my room is full of collectors shit I wouldnt even like to start counting it but its in the couple of thousand market. Maybe around £3000 - £3500. Its only going to keep growing.

Some "big" items not on display include

Portal Gun
Golden Lancer
Golden Retro Lancer
4 Limited Edition Xboxs
Disney Oswald Statue.

I think I'm going to step up my quality of purchases this year and start getting some of the high end Marvel/DC figures.



Will do but its unlikely I'm building a fairly decent artbook collection.

Well, should the day ever come. I don't really have an interest in collecting stuff anymore, but that Skyrim artbook has been taunting me forever. They're charging over 50 euro's on eBay, so fuck 'em.

 

[Enfinit]

Solo legendary Spartan Ops is a pain in the ass.

Although I did notice that if you pick off enemies before they jump out of the Phantom, they simply disappear. No bodies, no anything. One headshot and they completely vanish.

 

[Ghazi]

Although I did notice that if you pick off enemies before they jump out of the Phantom, they simply disappear. No bodies, no anything. One headshot and they completely vanish.

Just like real life!

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Well, should the day ever come. I don't really have an interest in collecting stuff anymore, but that Skyrim artbook has been taunting me forever. They're charging over 50 euro's on eBay, so fuck 'em.

As far as artbooks go its nothing special. Halo, Mass Effect and Metal Gear artbooks floor it

 

[Overdoziz]

We've already had a gametype where power weapons spawned in after a countdown: Invasion Slayer.

It was complete and total garbage. All that ends up happening is that as soon as the countdown gets low, jackasses shove their way to the front and mash X/RB/whatever button to try to get it before the people that actually secured the area. The last thing Halo 4 needs is more HUD elements and more of Steitzer's blabbermouth.

Replace that now-boring loading screen with an overhead view of the map with important weapon spawns marked with respawn times included. The information is exposed, but not intrusive. If people are too stupid or lazy to do basic math and figure out when the respawns are up, then fuck 'em.

That can only practically work if that map overhead is extremely flexible, being able create your own maps or switch around spawns on default maps and all. Now if you could take your own overhead picture in Forge and use that in the loading screen that could work. I still think simply showing a waypoint the moment a weapon spawns is the way to go. That way people who know timers and locations still have an advantage but new players don't only run into power weapon by accident, especially in matches filled with only people who don't know the spawntimes. It also eases people into learning spawntimes more smoothly.

 

[Blue Ninja]

As far as arkbooks go its nothibf special. Halo, Mass Effect and Metal Gear artbooks floor it

That's why I'm not paying €50 for it. :lol

 

[Fotos]

Just letting everyone know I was NPF7 but I changed my name.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Just letting everyone know I was NPF7 but I changed my name.

Avatar gave it away bro.

 

[Fotos]

Its the tip of the iceberg my room is full of collectors shit I wouldnt even like to start counting it but its in the couple of thousand market. Maybe around £3000 - £3500. Its only going to keep growing.

Some "big" items not on display include

Portal Gun
Golden Lancer
Golden Retro Lancer
4 Limited Edition Xboxs
Disney Oswald Statue.

I think I'm going to step up my quality of purchases this year and start getting some of the high end Marvel/DC figures.

Damn, that's cool. All I have is the Halo Reach statue, Halo 4 Xbox, and a statue of Max Payne.

 

[Havok]

That can only practically work if that map overhead is extremely flexible, being able create your own maps or switch around spawns on default maps and all. Now if you could take your own overhead picture in Forge and use that in the loading screen that could work. I still think simply showing a waypoint the moment a weapon spawns is the way to go. That way people who know timers and locations still have an advantage but new players don't only run into power weapon by accident, especially in matches filled with only people who don't know the spawntimes. It also eases people into learning spawntimes more smoothly.

Sure, I'm fine with that, it's how Initial Ordnance resupplies appear and it seems to work well enough. I just think the idea of a countdown solving any problems is totally ignoring the way players behave in an environment of anonymity.

The idea of a map only works if the developer takes the time to put the work in for every map that goes into matchmaking. It's not a ridiculous amount of effort or anything. For custom games just display the standard loading screen since it is very obviously not the priority here.

I just like the idea of letting the design remain more or less "pure" while letting structral elements tutorialize players rather than having this weird mishmash. Of course, none of those structural elements exist because Halo has always been piss-poor at exposing its mechanics to new players, but it'd be nice.

 

[Kujo]

Man

I JIP'd a Dominion game, spawned, got sniped literally within 1 second, gotta be a record. I then got spawn trapped 5 more times before the game gave me a decent spawn point. Then got betrayed and spawned out in the open again, bloody ell. Other team had 3 snipers, spartan laser guy, banshee, most using camo, hiding behind anything possible. Teammates going 1-20, etc

Love this game

 

[User 73706]

Just letting everyone know I was NPF7 but I changed my name.

Your new name sounds like the name of an all-gay middle-eastern city-state.

 

[NobleGundam]

Quick Thought: Could Halsey's Mysterious ONI Imposter/Interrogator be a former Spartan seeking to replace John?

 

[YourExWife]

There's a pretty interesting read about Sundance's thoughts on this "skill" situation and one of his proposed solutions:

Major League Gaming CEO says an MLG-created first-person shooter is inevitable

Choice quotes:

The persistent leveling systems in games like Call of Duty and Halo make it much harder to present a clean, skill-based competition, especially when you add in things like killstreaks and ordnance drops. That sort of play is enjoyable for the mass market, and for players who enjoy having fun and being rewarded for time, but it’s not competition-friendly.

So the dream game would be a title that brings back the classic deathmatch feel, with strong level design and balanced weapons. A game where you could have two players, or teams, duel each other, and show the action to fans.

So why not just create the game yourself? It’s something DiGiovanni says is inevitable.

“One day we will. One day we will. Yeah,” he said.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Quick Thought: Could Halsey's Mysterious ONI Imposter/Interrogator be a former Spartan seeking to replace John?

Nah, sounds way too official for that.

 

[Poker Face]

slightly off topic, but quick question about PAX.

So I got a saturday pass for PAX east since all of 3-day passes were sold out. I have classes until 12 on fridays, but I'm already in Boston so I could easily go that day as well. Is it worth it to buy a friday pass as well if I'm just going from 1 onwards, or is friday kind of a slow day?

Never been to an expo, so not really sure.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Your new name sounds like the name of an all-gay middle-eastern city-state.

No, that's Favalon. Easy mistake to make.

 

[OverHeat]

There's a pretty interesting read about Sundance's thoughts on this "skill" situation and one of his proposed solutions:

Major League Gaming CEO says an MLG-created first-person shooter is inevitable

Choice quotes:

Day 1

 

[Ghazi]

Quick Thought: Could Halsey's Mysterious ONI Imposter/Interrogator be a former Spartan seeking to replace John?

Replace John in what? It's not like they've been using/needing him ever since he went into crytostasis. Now if your talking about rank, do you think that Master Chief would care about his rank to do what's necessary?

 

[Overdoziz]

Sure, I'm fine with that, it's how Initial Ordnance resupplies appear and it seems to work well enough. I just think the idea of a countdown solving any problems is totally ignoring the way players behave in an environment of anonymity.

The idea of a map only works if the developer takes the time to put the work in for every map that goes into matchmaking. It's not a ridiculous amount of effort or anything. For custom games just display the standard loading screen since it is very obviously not the priority here.

I'm not not talking about a countdown timer, just a waypoint that appears the exact moment a weapon spawns.

 

[Havok]

I'm not not talking about a countdown timer, just a waypoint that appears the exact moment a weapon spawns.

Yeah, I know. That line was just explaining where I was coming from, as a response to all the talk on the last page about including a countdown.

 

[Fuchsdh]

There's a pretty interesting read about Sundance's thoughts on this "skill" situation and one of his proposed solutions:

Major League Gaming CEO says an MLG-created first-person shooter is inevitable

Choice quotes:

I don't see how you could have a shooter created by MLG that would ultimately work. If people don't wanna' play it, they aren't going to want to watch it, necessarily, so I think a top-down approach would be waaay too much of a risk. As for developers, I don't think it makes much sense for them to brand their game the MLG game.

The market for MLG is just not large enough or have enough clout. That would be like EGL deciding they hated StarCraft and trying to make their own RTS.