K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Would Microsoft funding tourneys + 343 doing outreach to competitive scenes help turn things around to any meaningful degree?
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Halo |OT19| 793 Posts, And None Worth Reading
- Thread starter Ozzy Onya A2Z
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It would help in short burst but it's needs other leagues to help keep the game relative. With something like Call of Duty they have daily online tournaments that bring in 32+ teams, along with UMG, Gfinity, etc.
Also I'm not even sure LAN tourneys have a future anymore with how popular online tournaments are becoming.
The Henery
Member
I disagree with this part. Equipment would still be unlimited use whilst possessed so the fear of one time misuse wouldn't exist.
ok will convert them then.
"Halo players doing well in CoD" who Cyren? None if them is in a position to win any tournament, hell they all have to play open bracket.
And even if a formal gets lost .. I don't care, formal is an idiot.
Of course CoD is more well known, of course Halo struggled.
And yeah i think as long MLG takes the game which pays mor ethan the game which is more balanced, COD will remain their title.
I would be ok with even smaller tourneys.
Online tourneys in CoD are a joke, everything I get about the CoD community is from former Halo pros and beyond's twitter.
I never thought they would be really more embarassing than the Alo community
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
I have to call bullshit here mate, just look at the Global Champs and the fact players came out of retirement, played online and at events then the finals arguably outstripped anything previously done by MLG.
Drop $$$ and quality like GC then bam, instant professional league if the sustain is there. The old MLG players, teams / organisers aren't the only ones willing to compete or develop events in the future. Christ how many competed in the Virgin initial default still tourney?
I don't feel 4 was a target for the MLG competitive scene nor was Reach but HX1 will be from the experiences over recent 343i times. Just shifted to MS and partners in place of say MLG solely at the helm. My speculation anyhow, I still feel there was a deeper reason 4 left out in game rank...
Deputy Moonman
Member
Really you just need a quality game. Halo:CE wasn't made with the thinking it would be a huge competitive game. It was so good, tournaments naturally came afterward.
MrGreencastle
Member
Blame Stinkles, Ozzy. He was on an anti-rank crusade a while back because of boosters or something. I wonder if he still feels that way now that he's seen the beginnings of the amazing new rank/investment system in Halo One.
edit: I bet it blew Frankles' mind
edit: I bet it blew Frankles' mind
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
Yeah...
I've been playing some Halo 4 and that matchmaking is horrible, it takes a while to find a match.
Oh god, oh god, oh god... what am I reading.
If the base game play is good and what people want to play, tournament's etc. shouldn't have a difficult time at all. Making the game further away from what people want will stop such thing's from happening and lead to situations like 4's multiplayer population.
Who is mom then?
Zeouterlimits
Member
And a few months ago. And a few months before that.
"Enthusiast" discussions tend to ouroboros.
It coming back after a few months is understandable, but I could swear we had the almost same discussion just a week ago.
Feels a bit like déjà vu.
90% of this thread right here. We need some H5 info asap.
I don't know why no one has mentioned this yet but you are one sexy beast.
Rawr at your avatar.
Deputy Moonman
Member
Isn't that the one someone else gave him?
A moment of silence for Halo 4's multiplayer population, please.
comrades
Caayn
Member
There's no mom, not anymore..... Halo dad is a child of parents who divorced very late into their relationship. Halo was a happily married man before that happened. But the divorce of his parents struck him so hard that his own marriage suffered from it. Arena Mom is now gone. Maybe in the future they'll get back together again, who knows?
...maybe....
Somehow he looks like a weird french dude.
His name could be Gui I swear
Negatives and Positives relating to Vehicles in Halo 4.
- Spawning with Plasma Pistol
- Spawning with Plasma Grenades
- Normal weapons do high damage/Vehicles are weak
- Boarding distance is huge
- Snipers wreck vehicles
- Huge selection of Power Weapons mean more for vehicles to get wrecked by
- Personal Ordnance make it a lot harder to keep any vehicle going for 5 minutes
- Mantis creates boring and stale gameplay
- Wheelman should have negated EMP completely because it's useless otherwise.
- Banshee was better when it was a Plasma Cannon machine
- BTB focused maps somehow worked out worse for vehicle combat
+ Vehicle splatter detection is probably the best I've seen in a Halo game
+ Mongoose can splatter in reverse
+ Banshee flipping is awkward but not OP like in Reach
- Spawning with Plasma Pistol
- Spawning with Plasma Grenades
- Normal weapons do high damage/Vehicles are weak
- Boarding distance is huge
- Snipers wreck vehicles
- Huge selection of Power Weapons mean more for vehicles to get wrecked by
- Personal Ordnance make it a lot harder to keep any vehicle going for 5 minutes
- Mantis creates boring and stale gameplay
- Wheelman should have negated EMP completely because it's useless otherwise.
- Banshee was better when it was a Plasma Cannon machine
- BTB focused maps somehow worked out worse for vehicle combat
+ Vehicle splatter detection is probably the best I've seen in a Halo game
+ Mongoose can splatter in reverse
+ Banshee flipping is awkward but not OP like in Reach
BTB still is quite easy to find a match, Donging on random's because they have no ability at mid range with my carbine is bearable. 4 suffer's from awful maps and stupid decision's gauss hog in matchmaking, Inaccurate turret on warthog (need's halo 3 version back) etc. Not even mentioning the maps.
Big boss is better for that:
I though Gui was Portuguese like color.morale?
Deputy Moonman
Member
Ive never been hot on vehicles being too powerful in Halo. I prefer the thrill of gun-slinging on foot, personally, and prefer vehicles more for quick transport across a map a la combat evolved. Halo 2 upped the devastation vehicles could wreak in halo, but somehow they didn't feel like overpowered killing machines that vehicles have been in Halo3, Reach, and Halo 4. Halo 3's vehicles were a tad on the too powerful side in my own opinion, and annoyingly hard to take down without a laser in hand. I absolutely disliked how powerful the gauss hog was (or is) in Halo 4, just like the tank, banshee, ghost, and mantis. With vehicles that powerful, the game mutates into Twisted Metal instead of Halo. The vehicles may have been more susceptible to dying quickly in 4, but I think they needed to be in order to balance out how powerful they were in the game. Honestly, I'd like a toned down vehicle offering in Halo 5 if that's possible.
EDIT:
Ah you're right. I just grabbed the most relevant picture from googling "moment of silence" without thinking about how insensitive it might be.
I loved goldeneye, too, but the controls - make that everything in the game - are prehistoric compared to halo, lol. Halo has more glitches than goldeneye? news to me!!
the community pointed out a huge amount of the flaws in everything from the UI to gameplay to maps leading up to halo 4's release an\d it was resolutely ignored by 343. cue crying baby twitter pictures, cue frankie saying framerate is now important, cue wheelchair master chief presentation slides.
will 343 give common sense the finger once again for halo 5? If I had to guess, yes.
baseball card ui v2.0 coming winter 2014, hire juices
ElRenoRaven
Member
Some people are just born to hate. Who cares what he thinks anyway. Does that reduce your enjoyment of Halo any more? It shouldn't.
Deputy Moonman
Member
Haha. Kyle, you're always so brutally honest. I don't really know what to expect from 343 at this point. I do think if they don't hit a home run with halo 5, things will pretty much be over for the halo franchise.
but then we can finally see what the Master Chief's face really looks like!
So he was too stupid to play Halo at one point and never got over it. got it.
How does golden eye even relate to halo? IDK :/ they probably like the klobb
.Vehicle balance is an issue, with finding the right strength and damage. It defeats point of having them if the sandbox isn't designed with them as a component, as you mention with the issues with 4. The mantis doesn't belong in halo either it is just odd, from a game play perspective.
Personally I liked 3 most for vehicles, they were arguable the best they have been since CE. Heavies is just straight up awful anyway.
Criticism is fine, because there is some truth even in the most harsh opinion. Then there is just some ridiculous that just makes a lick of sense. That post just makes very little sense and basically falls into the stop-liking-what-I-dont-like meme.
Baloney. The Halo 3 Warthog chaingun was absurdly powerful, had no overheat mechanic, and was only really balanced out by the equally absurd number of EMP capabilities on those maps and the ridiculous prevalence of the awful Spartan Laser - not like those helped when you spawned in the middle of nowhere (hi, Standoff. Hi, Rat's Nest). That was also the game that reintroduced the Banshee bomb in multiplayer, one of history's great mistakes. Even the Ghost cannons, on a vehicle that should have been 90% about map traversal, killed extremely quickly with very little effort. Even everyone's beloved Chopper had insane physics impulses on each rapid-fire shot, so good luck recovering from that if you're on a flag run in another vehicle. Vehicles, apart from the Banshee, haven't really gotten any more powerful since then. If anything, they're easier to deal with since you've got the ability to damage them at spawn.
That's not to say I think the persistent vehicle damage is a good change, but I'm firmly in the camp that thinks that vehicles should be first and foremost defined by their mobility advantages, not as tools of Hold RT For Mass Destruction. They function so much better when they are, tanks aside, used more for objective runs and for in-and-out harassment. Not that they've ever purely been about that, but I think their role in combat really needs to be rethought to force people to use them with more care.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
nillapuddin
Member
*Day 2, I promise GAF
**Please give me the tools 343. Until there are hills/terrain, it will never work
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Day 1 or bust. I kinda miss Halo 3 forge. I had probably the highest rated/ downloaded Warlock remake and it took me weeks to perfect, but in Halo 4 I didn't even bother because I knew there'd be 20 or so Warlock remakes in the first week (and when I realised Halo 4 was kinda bad, I *really * quit caring).
Standoff came with a Plasma Pistol, Plasma Grenades and a Power Drain in the base as well as Rockets and Plasma Grenades at Camo. Not ideal if you're spawning outside the base on the right side (when looking to enemy base from your own.) Even then a decent driver would avoid that back road like the plague due to the exits of the base making for an easy ambush. Hogs died very easy if the driver wasn't a great driver on Standoff.
Rats Nest is a similar story. The inside bases are littered with weapons that can take out, or at least screw with a Hog. Plasma grenades, PP and Brute Shot are easy to grab, free of Hog hassle and with some risk a Trip Mine is available to you. The only time a Hog truly takes on Rats Nest with ease is when a team is spawn trapping you. The Hog on Rats Nest is a near non issue outside of Team of 8 vs Randoms unless the teams are greatly unbalanced. Even a good driver finds Rats Nest hard to drive on due to its corridors, corners and single driving route which make for easy ambushes.
The Ghost cannons are powerful and do need toning down, but not to Avalanche Hornet levels. It should be an in and out type of vehicle. It shouldn't be around for long in an area or the driver should expect to be punished for it. I don't think it should be nearly entirely about using the thing to get from A to B faster though, that basically makes it redundant, and we already have the Mongoose to fill that role.
The Hog is a strange one. I agree with the overheat mechanic as it makes a gunner think more about what he's shooting at and if the shots are worth firing. It also makes the Hog more of an in and out vehicle as the Gunner can't pepper everything in site and they have to back off as they can't defend themselves momentarily. I don't think it should be easy to kill like it currently is in Halo 4, and was in Reach.
The Chopper was a beast and I'm never going to deny that it practically ruled the roost if it was on the map against other vehicles. I don't feel as though it was hard to take out though. The exposed driver, and the physics the vehicle itself had made it a less than difficult task. A BR from the side at the back would send it into a spin. So would a grenade.
Also the scenario you gave is a strange one. Surely if you pulled flag and wanted a simple escape you'd have taken out the Chopper first. The Chopper is a threat and should be treated as such in those circumstances. That's just poor teamwork.
That's one of my issues with Halo 4. The vehicles haven't really become more powerful, yet the ability to take them out from spawn has been handed to the players without a thought about what this would do to vehicle combat and BTB as a whole. No teamwork, no communication, just destruction. The only way you're getting some work done in a Vehicle in Halo 4 is with a Banshee, or a decently guarded Scorpion.
Both the players ability to take on vehicles from spawn and the vehicles themselves need a lot of work, but I really feel that a good driver, pilot, or gunner should be rewarded for having the skills necessary to remain alive and get kills in one vehicle.
Agreed on the Spartan Laser. It really is awful for vehicle combat. The Banshee bomb is also a problem, and while 3 may have introduced it, it was damn near useless. Pretty sure it took a near direct hit to kill.
The plasma launcher should replace the spartan laser in the sandbox, it's far fairer and it does the same job. As for the balance with vehicle's in 4, I agree that a player shouldn't be punished for making the choice to use a vehicle especially in BTB.
What do people think of uplift?:
Yes, the inside bases have weapons. There are weapons at landmarks. You almost never spawned in the base, and you almost never spawned at landmarks. People spawned at the corner ledges of Rat's Nest constantly, and if a Hog was there, they were fucked. People spawned either top rear of Standoff's base or between base and camo tree, which is practically out in the middle of nowhere. Halo is notorious for spawning people in the open, so listing off a list of counters doesn't help the 75% (bullshit statistic, whatever - the point stands) of people who aren't lucky enough to get one of the three in-base spawns when a Warthog is barreling at them with its half second kill time cannon. And that list of counters only proves that the ever-escalating upwards balance that surrounds Halo 3 vehicle combat is just ridiculous. The Power Drainer has a ridiculous AOE to combat the Warthog's crazy killing power. The Warthog's chaingun is so powerful because there are so many counters it needed a boost to be effective. It's an endless circle of shitty experiences.
See later in the post. I mention harassment for that specific reason - I'm not saying they're solely transports in an ideal world, because yes, the Mongoose exists. The Mongoose can't harass. It can't contain a team with suppressing fire. That 10% left is that. It has to be hit-and-run or the dynamic that surrounds the vehicle becomes profoundly less interesting. This manages to differentiate it from the Warthog in that since the Hog requires to people, it gains the capability to harass on both the incoming and outgoing trip, as well as serve as a troop transport. That's the big differentiatior - the primary purpose changes from what we have currently.
You know this is not possible in most, let alone all, scenarios, right? The issue isn't being able to take it out or that it kills too fast, it's that it kills any response by flipping over the only viable response vehicle in three or four rapid-fire shots, effectively taking away control from the driver and gunner with the press of a button. That's the entire argument I'm making - not that it's too durable, not that it has a low TTK, just that it's goddamn obnoxious and goes against the expectations of the player to be able to have a viable escape with strong play. I feel the same way about physics impulses on rifle rounds - save that for grenades. They take more forethought to put into use, they have limited range, and they're avoidable. Can't say the same for BRs and DMRs flipping a Warthog around, or the Chopper laughing all the way to the bank by holding RT.
The point I've always made about the Banshee bomb is that it shouldn't be a burst damage vehicle because that even further enhances it's mobility. Yeah, it was only the start, but being able to AOE nuke an area and maybe have to finish somebody off with a fast press of Y and two or three normal shots, then boost away into the sunset was the snowball that started the avalanche of garbage aerial vehicle play. By taking away the bomb entirely, you force them to trade mobility for kills because you can't hit one button and twirl away like a nuclear butterfly.
Both of the PC exclusive Halo 2 maps are terrible.
Sorry I never saw your point but I see your point now and would agree that it should be something that is removed. I'd rather the damage it can deal be kept as it wasn't a particularly mobile vehicle and that's the trade off. It's like flinch, It takes control away from the player and that's not good for gameplay.
You can spam the RT and it would shoot faster by the way
Wouldn't mind it losing the bomb at all. I preferred it when it was a plasma cannon beast anyway. You took a risk shooting someone as you would have to fly at them to do so.
I said previously that some changes need to happen on both sides of the Vehicular combat spectrum but I think map design (spawns, weapon placement) has a huge part to play in just how badly a vehicle can tear a team apart.
nillapuddin
Member
I liked playing on that turf map great fun. But my is the color palette in 4's forge is revolting, I'd take all silver and gray over that.
What are your thoughts on semi-power weapons like the Brute Shot physics effects on vehicles?
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