You use to be cool m0nkey
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Halo |OT2| Hyper-Athletic Speed And Mass And Weight and Power
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
Zeouterlimits
Member
Covenant more fully confirmed.... *sigh*
You use to be cool m0nkey
Dont get me wrong, I love FF but Spartan Ops sounds like the next step for Fire Fight.
i agree.
I feel that Firefight has become something of a staple that should be in every Halo game. Hell for me it is as important as Forge and Theater.
Don't get me wrong though, Spartan Ops sounds freaking awesome.
ElzarTheBam
Member
PM, I shall send you a 'build' of something alright.
I wanted ask, is Halo 4's multiplayer your definition of bieng brave? Out of curiosity. : )
The Henery
Member
Ok, just caught up with the thread, seen the scans, and felt the impact of the reaction.
First things first, the campaign looks incredible from those screens, vastly improved on Reach's graphics and lighting. The direction of the story - rampancy, Requiem, active and dangerous Forerunner machinery/architecture, new enemies - all has me decidedly giddy.
WTF is that thing coming through the window?
The action sequences such as the elevator shaft vacuum sound fresh and immersive, glad they're adding unconventional elements to the campaign.
Multiplayer
Some highly pensive feelings about this.
Things I'm happy about
- Spartan OP's. I've never seen something like this attempted in an online game and it sounds both compelling and like a feature that people would genuinely return to the game for, much in the same way a HBO viewer tunes in weekly to see the next episode of their favourite program. It appears to be something of a replacement for the cut Firefight. I'm not disappointed in the slightest that they axed FF, it was a resource drain on shipping maps, made for awkward compromises in DLC releases and quite frankly never produced engaging gameplay that you couldn't get from campaign run through's anyway.
- Customisable weapon loadouts. In my opinion, this is the single greatest bit of news we've heard regarding the multiplayer. No more will I have to endure AR starts because the voting lobby is full of players who hate fun. If I can choose a BR start in ANY playlist, then ALL playlists become viable, approachable and fun.
- Drop in/drop out. Before Reach I wouldn't have supported something like this in Halo but, so endemic has it become to the multiplayer experience, that I welcome it with open arms. SOCIAL ONLY though.
- No Elites. GOOD. That can only mean no Elite Slayer and no Invasion.
Things I'm undecided about
- Forerunner vision. Not enough info to make a judgement on, it could go either way on the terrible or inoffensive scale.
- 'Random' weapon drops. If the pods are truly random then this is a terrible addition. However I get the impression that there will be, say, four drop points. These drop points are always the same locations. The variable is in what drops there and at which one. A weapon will always drop at 12.59, 8.59 etc but you don't know which of the four points it will be at, forcing your team to position themselves at an equidistance to each drop point. Maybe. Could work, could be a disaster. Will have to see it in action to decide whether I really get angry over it.
Things I'm absolutely disgusted and appalled by
- Armour abilities returning. What. The. Fuck. The majority of this info I can accept because we knew that 343 were going to try new things with the franchise and that is fine and accepted. What I cannot abide, however, is the repeating of obvious mistakes from previous entries in the series. AA's do not work in Halo. Boot up Halo Reach and play five games of the Team Slayer playlist in a row. I don't need to tell you why they don't work now do I? Fundamentally, it breaks the golden Halo rule of starting everyone out on equal footing (Inb4 someone says 'what about starting with different weapons?' Firstly, you can see the BR in a players hands and no, it is not the same as a player being able to turn invisible at the press of a button).
I mean, I can't be bothered to even attempt to 'get good' at this game if people are flying around with jetpacks and camoing whenever they please. It breaks the game and is Action Sack shit, but I bet it's in the core vision for the vanilla game.
- Instant respawn. Awful, awful idea to implement into Halo. It doesn't even make sense in COD. A really hateful thing to add to the game by 343 imo.
So... a mixed reaction. Some things sound great (first time I've been really amped for a Halo campaign prior to release), others sound horrifying. That podcast can't come soon enough.
One last thing I will say about the multiplayer changes. They show an astonishing lack of creative thought and are frankly a wholesale pilfering of COD features. Unlocking abilities which allow you to be 'better' than another player are perks. I really thought I was going to hear new and exciting ideas with the multi, and while some are welcome from COD, none are anything I haven't seen before in other games sans the Spartan OP's mode which is co-op and not adversarial anyway.
First things first, the campaign looks incredible from those screens, vastly improved on Reach's graphics and lighting. The direction of the story - rampancy, Requiem, active and dangerous Forerunner machinery/architecture, new enemies - all has me decidedly giddy.
WTF is that thing coming through the window?
The action sequences such as the elevator shaft vacuum sound fresh and immersive, glad they're adding unconventional elements to the campaign.
Multiplayer
Some highly pensive feelings about this.
Things I'm happy about
- Spartan OP's. I've never seen something like this attempted in an online game and it sounds both compelling and like a feature that people would genuinely return to the game for, much in the same way a HBO viewer tunes in weekly to see the next episode of their favourite program. It appears to be something of a replacement for the cut Firefight. I'm not disappointed in the slightest that they axed FF, it was a resource drain on shipping maps, made for awkward compromises in DLC releases and quite frankly never produced engaging gameplay that you couldn't get from campaign run through's anyway.
- Customisable weapon loadouts. In my opinion, this is the single greatest bit of news we've heard regarding the multiplayer. No more will I have to endure AR starts because the voting lobby is full of players who hate fun. If I can choose a BR start in ANY playlist, then ALL playlists become viable, approachable and fun.
- Drop in/drop out. Before Reach I wouldn't have supported something like this in Halo but, so endemic has it become to the multiplayer experience, that I welcome it with open arms. SOCIAL ONLY though.
- No Elites. GOOD. That can only mean no Elite Slayer and no Invasion.
Things I'm undecided about
- Forerunner vision. Not enough info to make a judgement on, it could go either way on the terrible or inoffensive scale.
- 'Random' weapon drops. If the pods are truly random then this is a terrible addition. However I get the impression that there will be, say, four drop points. These drop points are always the same locations. The variable is in what drops there and at which one. A weapon will always drop at 12.59, 8.59 etc but you don't know which of the four points it will be at, forcing your team to position themselves at an equidistance to each drop point. Maybe. Could work, could be a disaster. Will have to see it in action to decide whether I really get angry over it.
Things I'm absolutely disgusted and appalled by
- Armour abilities returning. What. The. Fuck. The majority of this info I can accept because we knew that 343 were going to try new things with the franchise and that is fine and accepted. What I cannot abide, however, is the repeating of obvious mistakes from previous entries in the series. AA's do not work in Halo. Boot up Halo Reach and play five games of the Team Slayer playlist in a row. I don't need to tell you why they don't work now do I? Fundamentally, it breaks the golden Halo rule of starting everyone out on equal footing (Inb4 someone says 'what about starting with different weapons?' Firstly, you can see the BR in a players hands and no, it is not the same as a player being able to turn invisible at the press of a button).
I mean, I can't be bothered to even attempt to 'get good' at this game if people are flying around with jetpacks and camoing whenever they please. It breaks the game and is Action Sack shit, but I bet it's in the core vision for the vanilla game.
- Instant respawn. Awful, awful idea to implement into Halo. It doesn't even make sense in COD. A really hateful thing to add to the game by 343 imo.
So... a mixed reaction. Some things sound great (first time I've been really amped for a Halo campaign prior to release), others sound horrifying. That podcast can't come soon enough.
One last thing I will say about the multiplayer changes. They show an astonishing lack of creative thought and are frankly a wholesale pilfering of COD features. Unlocking abilities which allow you to be 'better' than another player are perks. I really thought I was going to hear new and exciting ideas with the multi, and while some are welcome from COD, none are anything I haven't seen before in other games sans the Spartan OP's mode which is co-op and not adversarial anyway.
dragonelite
Member
The Librarian
Banned
Single-player stuff looks great so far.
The cops will be at your door soon enough.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Well from what we know, not exactly.
From my superficial look at some of the changes, there's a fair amount of chasing the CoD tail at play e.g. Sprint, weapon drops, respawn timers etc.
Brave is doing something new or applying something in an innovative fashion. That could still be what this is, but reading the facts as we have them...
I will need to hear justification before I could call this a brave move.
My only issue with AAs were that they were not fun to deal with. A player couldn't skillfully use them, he could just use it. They didn't bring anything to the gameplay other than a means to prolong a kill. Also, basic player traits were so unsavory that the disparity between someone using an AA and someone not was too large.
What I need to happen is all players given a significant toolset inherent in the game. Good mobility and other defensive options. The foundation should be stable enough that no matter the variation, players are always somewhat on equal footing, so that the better player will win. I do trust 343 knowns what they're doing.
bobs...onGaf
Member
I would say Halo 4's multiplayer fits my definition of greedy. They are going for the CoD market, no new innovative thoughts, just copy and apply features. Will the CoD market be intrigued, or will they simply continue to enjoy those very same features in CoD and ignore this new copy cat?
Of course I may be wrong, but initial signs point towards the new stuff being heavily influenced by CoD.
Cortana looks amazing. So excited to see how this trilogy plays out for this character.
The Elites are impressive but I don't know how I feel about the design. They are analogous to some guy just throwing on a vest and going out to fight. The Elite in a wife-beater look isn't doing it for me.
The Elites are impressive but I don't know how I feel about the design. They are analogous to some guy just throwing on a vest and going out to fight. The Elite in a wife-beater look isn't doing it for me.
Zeouterlimits
Member
I hope 343 don't take the reaction in an offensive manner (although I'm sure Frankie & David were expecting it to a certain degree).
People do want to believe, but can only comment on what they see.
Not very confident that this podcast will end up being an effective reassurance, but looking forward to it all the same.
People do want to believe, but can only comment on what they see.
Not very confident that this podcast will end up being an effective reassurance, but looking forward to it all the same.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
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ElzarTheBam
Member
I completely understand where you are coming from, but the way we feel now is mirrored by how people felt about shooters when Halo was released.
What I mean by this is that, after Halo released you had all these shooters copying elements from halo, like recharging shield/health, two weapon system, grenades mapped to a single button etc
But we didn't complain, because Halo was our favourite franchise and the number one shooter at the time. But there were are a lot of pissed people (and still are), who were pissed about how Halo influenced thier shooter of choice.
And now it's Halo's turn to do the copying to keep up with the number one franchise, call of duty.
But I do understand the competitive complaints, but at least, at the very least people (not directed at you babe.
) should wait until theres enough clarification, before judging the game, at this moment in time.I refuse to believe 343 did not learn some lessons from reach.
bobs...onGaf
Member
I completely understand where you are coming from, but the way we feel now is mirrored by how people felt about shooters when Halo was released.
What I mean by this is that, after Halo released you had all these shooters copying elements from halo, like recharging shield/health, two weapon system, grenades mapped to a single button etc
But we didn't complain, because Halo was our favourite franchise and the number one shooter at the time. But there were are a lot of pissed people (and still are), who were pissed about how Halo influenced thier shooter of choice.
And now it's Halo's turn to do the copying to keep up with the number one franchise, call of duty.
But I do understand the competitive complaints, but at least, at the very least people (not directed at you babe.
I refuse to believe 343 did not learn some lessons from reach.
Halo should set the trends, not copy them. Halo should have innovated features that worked with its core gameplay. I will wait for further clarification, but just basing my judgements on what we see now I am very dissapointed.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
A lot of this Looks great to me, but I think its hilarious that there's something called Spartan Ops. I mean, come on!
Zeouterlimits
Member
Yeah, choosing a naming convention like that doesn't help.
I disagree. You could skillfully use all the AAs, but they tended to create scenarios that were more annoying than enjoyable. Go in for the finishing hit--he taps armor lock, stuns you, kills you instead. You know exactly where someone is camping--but since they've got camo you wait for a second too long and get plugged. You have someone dead to rights but they can sprint and beat you down. All the AAs had interesting elements, but to me since you had no idea who had what it was like a bad throwback to CE where the guy would whip out a Rocket Launcher.
Most of my issues would be resolved with further balance tweaks and just making the things pickups like Equipment, but 343i doesn't seem to be going in that direction, so I imagine I'll have the same gripes.
ElzarTheBam
Member
The reason why I'm usually stupid/awesome on HaloGaf is because at work I gotta be serious all the time.
Innovation can come in many forms, innovation in terms accessibility, innovation in terms of taking something from somewhere else and making it better etc.
But I agree, innovation is key, me and you will have to have to wait to find out I guess. Like I said it wasn't directed at you Bobs, your question was perfect for my response. : )
OdysseusVA
Banned
The Librarian
Banned
The internet is going bananas over what's leaked. Waypoint, MLG, etc.
Zeouterlimits
Member
One hopes. But leaving it so late can lead to marketing confusion.
Struck me as silly that they showed two maps with such similar (and placeholder) names. Is coming up with something interesting so hard?
ElzarTheBam
Member
Yes, hopefully, foreunner vision sounds terrible!
343 killed Halo. And so on and so forth.
The gambit element was not integral to AAs. You could reasonably tell which one they were using, and the only AA that allowed for split second confrontational "advantages" was AL, and that left you stationary and even more of a target. In regular combat, it was only practical if you knew you had back up coming right away. Otherwise, you were dead regardless.
What you consider skill is what I consider merely using the AA. The ability level required to use one is low, and does not appreciate in relation to situations you find yourself in. You're always deflecting damage and stalling combat with AL and you're always elevating with Jetpack. Those dynamics never change, so it's merely using them at the "right" time, which is a skill unto itself I suppose, but not what I would call skillful.
Rand0m TAG
Member
like i've said before, i am going to wait until we receive further notice (and more concrete evidence) on how all of this is going to be implemented into matchmaking and multiplayer. for all we know, random weapon drops is only going to happen in 1 playlist (dont crush my dreams lol).
my take on armor abilities, and customizing armor and weapons. i am not going to judge until i see them in action or see how they are balanced. games like bioshock 2, transformers, shadowrun did these things right. reach did not.
my take on armor abilities, and customizing armor and weapons. i am not going to judge until i see them in action or see how they are balanced. games like bioshock 2, transformers, shadowrun did these things right. reach did not.
dragonelite
Member
Don't forget Spartan Points
yeah change Spartan Points to something like armory credits please. Spartan Ops make a bit sense for a name.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Im laughing at all the nerd rage, MLG can shut up they play custom settings anyway and even if they port over the reach customization opens for custom games MLG can create "competitive halo"
Everything mentioned so far for multiplayer aims to make it easier for less skilled players to play, people need to get of their very high very elitist horses and understand from a business standpoint the best thing to do is to make your game as friendly to new players and less skilled players as possible.
While i dont agree with some choices to immediately shout "Halo is dead" before having even played it is ridiculous
Everything mentioned so far for multiplayer aims to make it easier for less skilled players to play, people need to get of their very high very elitist horses and understand from a business standpoint the best thing to do is to make your game as friendly to new players and less skilled players as possible.
While i dont agree with some choices to immediately shout "Halo is dead" before having even played it is ridiculous
Poker Face
Member
I can't even....
So you're happy with the blatant copying, random weapon dropping, return of AAs, removal of firefight and spawn delay...
?????
While there's nothing wrong with that, randomnity is not the way to do it. Hoping for more information on these systems and that they aren't how I'm imagining.
The game can be accessible, but veteran players will be angry (and deservedly so) if the depth and thinking side of the game is compromised.
I'll miss Firefight and Invasion. Spartan Ops sounds like the replacement. Let's hope it does those modes justice.
Honestly the only thing that could drag any sort of feeling back towards this game for me is if 343 let MLG incubate their playlist for launch day with forced BR starts, no perks or AAs, fixed weapon spawns, no sprint (because it's shit and doesn't work in the Halo sandbox), delays on spawning, and a competent skill based ranking system outside of the dudebro military unlocks.
But honestly even that wouldn't be great because then I'd be forced to sit in a single playlist. Im a Halo fan, I don't want to be penned into a corner like some unwanted misfit because I wish to play a game that stays true to the series foundations that originally grabbed me.
Halo 4 will be just like Reach. Tons of shit additions that split the fanbase even further as the gameplay is slowly peeled back in subsequent TUs. I honestly thought 343 had this.
As Bobs said, Halo should be about innovating. The multiplayer team have done anything but.
But honestly even that wouldn't be great because then I'd be forced to sit in a single playlist. Im a Halo fan, I don't want to be penned into a corner like some unwanted misfit because I wish to play a game that stays true to the series foundations that originally grabbed me.
Halo 4 will be just like Reach. Tons of shit additions that split the fanbase even further as the gameplay is slowly peeled back in subsequent TUs. I honestly thought 343 had this.
As Bobs said, Halo should be about innovating. The multiplayer team have done anything but.
KidA Seven
Member
So then what's the point of True skill?
The Librarian
Banned
I have a Eureka! Tashi, instead of a podcast, we can just meet up in Reach and talk about stuff in the lobby and you can stream it (and record it).
Bam!
Bam!
It was too hard for bad players to learn the layout of a simple map, so to make it easier we're going to randomize and make a mess of the few things that they were actually able to commit to memory because, as you know, in the previous three games skilled players were constantly thrown into games with bad players and ruined their experience as each game lacked any kind of ranking system.
Poker Face
Member
All I want to see is how they implement it. On paper they might seem the same, but if the execution is different then there should be no worries. Still, from first glace, this really looks like blatant copying.