I really need to go back and play through all the Halos. I did it before Reach came out, now I need to do it again before Halo 4 ships
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Halo |OT2| Hyper-Athletic Speed And Mass And Weight and Power
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
I really need to go back and play through all the Halos. I did it before Reach came out, now I need to do it again before Halo 4 ships
Rickenslacker
Banned
It is fairly well received because people like how hands-on it is for making levels, and it is nice to visualize something and try to jump into Forge and make it. Even watching the Achievement Hunter stuff from RoosterTeeth, Geoff and Jack fuckin' love Reach and they also love Forge because of all the wacky one off scenarios they can play around in with their Achievement HORSE segments.
However even though it may be fun to do those things, as a map creator it fall apart. I like Halo maps. I like the way Halo maps look. I like the details they put into the maps, and I like the overall tone and atmosphere that they result in. Even with the layouts you can form out of Forge items, they're lifeless at best and at worse they're mishmashed monstrosities. They may be fun to dream up and then design, but they are a torture to play for any significant amount of time. It's a fine idea, but I feel like unless they really invest the time to make it a real map creator like Far Cry 2's then the results are always going to be:
Garrett 2U
Member
I feel like hologram is one of the most creatively lacking abilities added to Reach.
Super surprised to see it being carried forward into Halo 4.
Super surprised to see it being carried forward into Halo 4.
Hydranockz
Member
Hologram's a BEAST!
Rickenslacker
Banned
I mean, I guess you could always use it to absorb a sword lunge or shotgun blast. It really was the least offensive of the bunch as I found every other AA broke the game in its own way.
It is fairly well received because people like how hands-on it is for making levels, and it is nice to visualize something and try to jump into Forge and make it. Even watching the Achievement Hunter stuff from RoosterTeeth, Geoff and Jack fuckin' love Reach and they also love Forge because of all the wacky one off scenarios they can play around in with their Achievement HORSE segments.
However even though it may be fun to do those things, as a map creator it fall apart. I like Halo maps. I like the way Halo maps look. I like the details they put into the maps, and I like the overall tone and atmosphere that they result in. Even with the layouts you can form out of Forge items, they're lifeless at best and at worse they're mishmashed monstrosities. They may be fun to dream up and then design, but they are a torture to play for any significant amount of time. It's a fine idea, but I feel like unless they really invest the time to make it a real map creator like Far Cry 2's then the results are always going to be:
Very well said.
Steelyuhas
Member
Ditto
Ergo, don't put Forge maps into rotation.
Rickenslacker
Banned
That works. I still like it for tweaking maps, like the sandbags placed on the lifts in Zealot, but I'd rather not have Forge maps substituting real ones in MM ever again.
It is fairly well received because people like how hands-on it is for making levels, and it is nice to visualize something and try to jump into Forge and make it. Even watching the Achievement Hunter stuff from RoosterTeeth, Geoff and Jack fuckin' love Reach and they also love Forge because of all the wacky one off scenarios they can play around in with their Achievement HORSE segments.
However even though it may be fun to do those things, as a map creator it fall apart. I like Halo maps. I like the way Halo maps look. I like the details they put into the maps, and I like the overall tone and atmosphere that they result in. Even with the layouts you can form out of Forge items, they're lifeless at best and at worse they're mishmashed monstrosities. They may be fun to dream up and then design, but they are a torture to play for any significant amount of time. It's a fine idea, but I feel like unless they really invest the time to make it a real map creator like Far Cry 2's then the results are always going to be:
I feel this is what they should do. Go big or go home with the map tools. Your baseline is Far Cry 2, but they can go a bit farther (if Megalo returns, some light scripting and object assignment abilities will be needed). Especially if MS is going to continue this "DLC right after launch then some content maybe attached to another game a year later" bullshit.
There should also be a "Performance" meter like FC2 has while you're editing.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Forge maps should only be in a community map playlist (that actually gets updated the entire duration of the game - it shouldn't come out 6 months after the games out and get two updates through its lifetime) and whatever MLG wants in their playlist.
I'd love to be able to see the actual FPS in custom games. That's even better than what Far Cry has.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I wonder how drop-in, drop-out works. I've been playing Gears 3 the past few months, and the drop-in/drop-out is only in the Social/Unranked variants of the playlists. You hop on, wait maybe 10 seconds, loading screen, boom you're in the game and you wait for one of the bots to die to take his place.
One of the big reasons that doesn't work in Halo 4 is this: Bots. Halo 4, as far as I know, doesn't have bots. There are no AI placeholders for humans to keep games going or to play offline in private matches or anything of the sort.
Also, I'm gonna imagine Halo 4 with have more gametypes per playlists. In Gears 3, if you wanna play KotH, you just pick KotH. In quickmatch, after the match is over, it rotates to a new map and the games keep going. People come and go(bots swapping in for them), and the games just keep going. No set-up required, no post-game carnage, no waiting around in matchmaking. Halo, for better or worse, is a much more versatile game with more gametypes, more weapons, more styles of play.
I imagine it's gonna be more like CoD, where sometimes you just get dropped in a middle of a game and hope for the best to not get shit on.
For quickmatch, that is. Ranked should always be anti-drop-in/drop-out, but I imagine Frankie/Ellis would clarify on that if it was.
One of the big reasons that doesn't work in Halo 4 is this: Bots. Halo 4, as far as I know, doesn't have bots. There are no AI placeholders for humans to keep games going or to play offline in private matches or anything of the sort.
Also, I'm gonna imagine Halo 4 with have more gametypes per playlists. In Gears 3, if you wanna play KotH, you just pick KotH. In quickmatch, after the match is over, it rotates to a new map and the games keep going. People come and go(bots swapping in for them), and the games just keep going. No set-up required, no post-game carnage, no waiting around in matchmaking. Halo, for better or worse, is a much more versatile game with more gametypes, more weapons, more styles of play.
I imagine it's gonna be more like CoD, where sometimes you just get dropped in a middle of a game and hope for the best to not get shit on.
For quickmatch, that is. Ranked should always be anti-drop-in/drop-out, but I imagine Frankie/Ellis would clarify on that if it was.
I care. Exterms are one of the more satisfying medals to get in Halo. Sending an entire team to the death screen to establish map control is an awesome feeling.
Yay
Concerning Sword Base, I hate the map because of the frequency of it showing up in SWAT. Going in solo and having your three teammates rush Gold 4 three times in a minute and suddenly finding yourself down 10 sucks. It's not the worse in Reach, but if it had been a Halo 1 or 2 map, it would be reviled by the community.
Rickenslacker
Banned
I would honestly prefer a gap in the team for a brief period than having an AI placeholder. AI in MP just make the experience feel unpure, y'know? Even still, it would be better than the alternative of being out a teammate for the rest of the game as previous Halos have done.
Not to say I wouldn't want bots in the game at all, maybe for some forever alone offline play customs.
End games after one team gets so far ahead it's no longer competitive. That way players entering mid game are assured to have a competitive game welcoming them while the players in the game won't have to play out an already decided battle.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
offline bots in Gears 3 are also good for farming some of the REALLY stupid challenges Epic Games gives people, and you have to be able to do the challenges offline because many of them directly correlate to unlockables that you would be shutting from all the offline/LAN players, like character skins, weapon skins, icons, titles, etc.
But this is all just speculation of the mystical alternate universe Halo 4 that happened to have bots.
Ha, like an "I give up!" button? Put it to team vote, maybe? "Ok guys, it's 3 on 8, do you REALLY just want to hide and dick around on BTB Slayer for the next 10 minutes or do we just give up right now?" No penalty of course. No reward either! Don't want parties joining games and then two of your friends quitting so you can get the "I Gave Up 10 Times in a Day" Achievement/Challenge.
But this is all just speculation of the mystical alternate universe Halo 4 that happened to have bots.
Ha, like an "I give up!" button? Put it to team vote, maybe? "Ok guys, it's 3 on 8, do you REALLY just want to hide and dick around on BTB Slayer for the next 10 minutes or do we just give up right now?" No penalty of course. No reward either! Don't want parties joining games and then two of your friends quitting so you can get the "I Gave Up 10 Times in a Day" Achievement/Challenge.
iirc there was a report (may have been in someone's resume, I'm not sure) on bots being designed for H4 specifically for testing mp and sp scenarios. Whether that was built on and implemented as a feature of the game is unlikely but possible.
It would also be able to fit into the fiction, with the multiplayer spaces being a holographic projection.
Brought that up in the past too, but they seem to have the drop in option to replace this now. I don't mind that for social games but keep that stuff out of rank games. Let us "quit with honor" in rank playlist.
Steelyuhas
Member
lol at you guys assuming there will be ranked playlists.
Kidding.
But sorta not.
Kidding.
But sorta not.
TS x Massacre
Member
That is, if we get a "ranked" offering.
David/Frank,
I'm coming to terms with all these changes, however, the one thing that I will not be able to tolerate is if we do not get a "ranked" system somewhat similar to Halo 2 and Halo 3.
I was just talking to a couple of buddies and they said that's the only thing that will flat out stop them from buying it, and im almost inclined to agree. Now I dont want to make this sound like a demand or threat or anything because I respect you guys immensely and I understand it's not just you guys and that it's a group of about 300 employees not including Microsoft's hand in the cookie jar. All this is, is a simple request to please add some sort of ranked competitive playspace(not just one playlist please) that is competitive from the get-go and is similar to traditional Halo at launch. It would really do wonders for the longevity of the game, I miss not being able to have a skill rank, and we all know how Reach's Arena went.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
In Gears 3 Ranked, there isn't drop-in option, but there are big penalties for quitting. Say, you got 8 kills and you got killed 20 times. You're sucking ass! So you quit. You get 0 kills added to your ranked K/D, you get all your deaths PLUS one(so 21 deaths), AND you lose 2000 credits(which is a pretty darn good amount until you get to the super high levels. That's usually a good enough incentive NOT to quit, especially in the middle of a game where you're getting your ass kicked, which is where the vast majority of quits happen in my shooting game experience.
Also, in Ranked if a player quits, a bot takes his place for the rest of the round. When the round is over, the bot is gone and you're left with the remaining players on your team, and you can plan accordingly without the randomness of a bot. I thought that was a nice touch.
Personally, I don't go into ranked WITHOUT at least 3 other guys, because I want to win(or at least attempt to) with people I like, people who know the game, and people who aren't gonna ditch me when we run into super tryhard turbo controller killcrew(which happens from time to time).
edit: And yeah, this is assuming we get a Ranked playlist. We have to though, right?
...right?
.......RIGHT!?
Also, in Ranked if a player quits, a bot takes his place for the rest of the round. When the round is over, the bot is gone and you're left with the remaining players on your team, and you can plan accordingly without the randomness of a bot. I thought that was a nice touch.
Personally, I don't go into ranked WITHOUT at least 3 other guys, because I want to win(or at least attempt to) with people I like, people who know the game, and people who aren't gonna ditch me when we run into super tryhard turbo controller killcrew(which happens from time to time).
edit: And yeah, this is assuming we get a Ranked playlist. We have to though, right?
...right?
.......RIGHT!?
I just can't see them not doing it, it's a shot in the foot for them and a middle finger to the entire community that had to go through Reach shit storm for the last few years. Arena isn't a ranking system either.
Steelyuhas
Member
I think if implemented correctly, both in playlists and in the UI, a form of Arena is certainly better than 1-50. (If nothing else just because it ranks you in comparison to your peers based on percentage instead of simply how difficult the developer decides to make getting a 50 [example being how it's much harder to get higher levels in Halo 2 than it is in Halo 3].)
I think it's possible that there is no 'ranking' system in 4 though. Drawing a lot from COD lately, but one of the reasons that COD's matchmaking is such a success (population and longevity wise) is that matchmaking is very uniform. There isn't ranked vs social, there isn't radically different game modes or playstyles, there is just a set of playlists (largely based on gametype), and they all have the same rules (hardcore being a small subset exception). It's a simple, uniform system, with an addicting investment system (obviously 343 is attempting to create that aspect).
This solves little because you don't address the other reasons why the person is quitting. This only covers the people who quit to save face/their stats, but you penalize the people who quit because the game was laggy, team quit, people are being unsporting (teamkilling, etc), or because the gametype wasn't fun to them and they were matchmade into it.
Exactly: Ranked = no drop-in drop-out, no guests, etc => surrender (quit with honor as you say).
I don't care about social, just don't mess with Ranked (and don't forget to include it!)
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I remember how stupidly difficult it was to actually get around to say...level 16, right, in Team Slayer? That was the official "good" ranking for awhile. You saw anybody with a level 25, they were either fucking TS Orge or standbyers. Then it got progressively easier over the years as they played with the balances, level 25 was the standard, then level 32, etc.
IDK, I'm two minds about the numbered visible ranks. I think they're more trouble then they're worth. I'm fine with TrueSkill being invisible, I just like a ranked playlists that actually use them for competitive matches.
IDK, I'm two minds about the numbered visible ranks. I think they're more trouble then they're worth. I'm fine with TrueSkill being invisible, I just like a ranked playlists that actually use them for competitive matches.
Hydranockz
Member
Remembering old wishlishts from back in the day, I've thought about them for 4.
Combat Knife: What if, in order to perform assasinations, you'd need to have the combat knife equipped? That way, players that want th flourish can go about saving up for the unlock or simply avoid it in order to keep doing backsmacks.
Boats: I remember seeig mockups way back in of jetskis and other boats. Essentially just mongeese and wartogs of the sea. Will Infinity ever brace Spartans for combat near water?
Mini-games during inevitable black screens: Remember that hog launching flash game from eons ago? Would't it be AWESOME to play that while hosts switch around?
Combat Knife: What if, in order to perform assasinations, you'd need to have the combat knife equipped? That way, players that want th flourish can go about saving up for the unlock or simply avoid it in order to keep doing backsmacks.
Boats: I remember seeig mockups way back in of jetskis and other boats. Essentially just mongeese and wartogs of the sea. Will Infinity ever brace Spartans for combat near water?
Mini-games during inevitable black screens: Remember that hog launching flash game from eons ago? Would't it be AWESOME to play that while hosts switch around?
User 73706
Banned
Hell, just call the Armory Spart N' Mart so it all fits together.
I see what you are saying but I think people just want classic ranks back, no one will say they are Roger Clemens with Onyx but will brag about a 50. Not to add "cockiness" to players but just the way it's in the past and how it failed in Reach from what I've seen and heard. I'm not even going to count this weekend numbers because of the Jackpot it has. Didn't Bungie also have difficulty trying to get a number for people with all different aspects of the game like objective and other things? Keep it simple but competitive, a mixture of how Halo 2 to Halo 3 to a 50 was, hard enough the best achieve it, but not easy enough that everyone can.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
If numbered ranks come back, Fryewulf quits
(like he quit when hitscan came back, oh wait)
(like he quit when hitscan came back, oh wait)
Based on one of the images from GI, its a pretty safe bet they are.
I... I... didn't even notice that. Thanks.
TS x Massacre
Member
I completely agree. I'm not going to lie, I just enjoyed the system of 1-50 a whole lot better. It was simple, it was fun, it helped create much more skillful matches.
My k/d in H2 and H3 were somewhere around 1.4, and i can remember having to try to win games and actually put in effort to improve.
My k/d in Reach is like 1.9 with over an 80% win percentage, I dont FEEL like im that good, however I never get matched against anyone I have to try against =/
The Antitype
Banned
Assassinations are the most inoffensive part of Halo: Reach and Halo 4. Totally optional with a huge risk/reward... at least if humiliation of opponents counts as a reward for you (hint: Yes it does).
TS x Massacre
Member
You're my favorite person, ever.
Steelyuhas
Member
I don't really care if a player is more proud of his 50 than his top X% of Onyx personally, just what's better for the game. 1-50 is very flawed and promoted a lot of undesirable activity.
If Arena ranks were W/L and 3 month seasons (or no seasons at all) from the beginning, although with an actually good implementation into the UI and more than one playlist, I think it would have been drastically more successful than it was.
If their is a ranking system, I hope it's something new that 343 cooked up instead of slapping trusty ol 1-50 trueskill rankings on top of playlists, and assuming they do, I hope it's a system closer to Arena than to 1-50 (at least the way it was in Halo 3).
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I have an unabashed love of Assassinations and put them as one of of the best additions to Halo multiplayer Reach brought. Adds a bit of individual flair to a standard kill, with the extra bonus of humiliating the opponent a little. I'm glad they're back.
TS x Massacre
Member
Arena also can't do objective remember, this is a large flaw.
This is probably another reason why I gravitate towards the 1-50 system more. You can get ranked differently in different things and realize what you excel in and what you need to improve on.
However, maybe they could make a hybrid, where you can try to work your way to 50 before like a 3-4 deadline, then they reset the rank, keep your trueskill tracked, show your highest number reached in your service record(like Halo 3), and try again. Defeating the purpose of 2nd accounts, buying accounts, and giving players who hit their 50's, more skillful matches the second time around when trying to get their 50 again. I dont know how i feel about my idea entirely though.
Steelyuhas
Member
Arena is W/L, so I see no reason it can't do objective.
That was back when it was based on the rating.
I just wish they worked properly.
*Taps button, Assassination*
*Holds button, default backsmack*
I love assassinations. I even feel good when I'm getting assassinated, which is rare for me to enjoy something when I'm dying. I would love to see them move forward in Reach.
The game is about attracting casual players though, Arena didn't do it job in Halo Reach for competitive and casual. Why give it another shot when it clearly worked in Halo 2 and Halo 3. There's a novelty behind it too which will attract a lot of older fans that left Reach after they played it and didn't like it compared to past titles. Unless 343i can execute something that's exactly like Starcraft 2 league system and not a cheap knockoff it will fail. I'll take what's best to show a person real skill either way. I'm just looking at the 50 thing from a casual aspect and what I heard from my casual friends on what they liked and didn't like from Halo 2/3 to Reach.
For sure. I don't mind Arena ratings. Just improve them and spread across more lists. Regardless of ranks, I'd like to see matchmaking improved. Even in Reach Arena where its better, its still isn't great. I got ranked today and lost my last game while going 21 kills, +13 but had 2 jackasses on my team who blew it.
Same. I dig them. I do think there should be an option to disable per game type, as well as per individual player.
TS x Massacre
Member
Okay, thank you for clarifying, i wasn't sure if rating meant anything at all lol.
Yeah i wouldnt be against it then. I just want some sort of ranking system to provide incentive to win as well as a lot of people like myself find skilling up and getting the best skill represented possible very fun.