Support NeoGAF

[Stinkles]

That struck me as odd too. At least 2 player online is still confirmed. You cannot play Reach with 3 or 4 players online for anything other than a complete laugh.

I agree with you. Rich cool people play with one screen liek Richie Rich. Cool kids who are charitable play with 2 player split screen, like BJ McKay and his Best Friend Bear. Brady Bunch maniacs do four player split screen and I assume they fail at SWAT a lot. BUT - Halo 4 still supports four player split screen for MP - Brad was conflating co-op, I suspect.

 

[Arnie]

Well, they do say that fortune favours the brave.

 

[Hydranockz]

You've watched that video and still need an explanation?

Yeah. No gameplay footage or concrete details. We still assosciate AAs with Reach's implementation even though 343 spent their time with Reach removing them. They've changed. In what way? I don't know. I won't say they're clueless devs before I see what it is they have developed.

I agree with you. Rich cool people play with one screen liek Richie Rich. Cool kids who are charitable play with 2 player split screen, like BJ McKay and his Best Friend Bear. Brady Bunch maniacs do four player split screen and I assume they fail at SWAT a lot. BUT - Halo 4 still supports four player split screen for MP - Brad was conflating co-op, I suspect.

Hah, ok. Yeah it just strruck as odd with the way he phrased it was the same. I stand by my comments about 3-4 players though. I've lanned many a time on Reach wth 4 players to a sreen. The sniper is visible as a block until you scope in. You see lights from hogs floating around before you can see the hog. It's only tolerable (in a somewhat competitive manner) if every other team has 4-way splitscreen going on.

 

[Falagard]

Hmm, I worked at the same game development company (Auran) as Brad Welch, but he left a couple years before I was there. Funny coincidence.

 

[op_ivy]

See the problem is that the changes in Reach sounded even better on paper than what we've heard of Halo 4's changes... and they were almost unanimously bad.

Bloom? Didn't sound bad on paper. I played Shadowrun and thought it was okay. Armor Lock - a little OP but sounded like it could make for some fun gameplay if implemented properly. Sprint? Sure, that'd be fun. A precision weapon like the DMR sounded good. Jetpacks? Never liked the idea personally, knew that they'd break map flow.

Put them altogether and Reach was amazingly frustrating to play.

And those were with ideas that sounded good on paper. I'm extra frightened of ideas that sound bad on paper.

see, halo reach came out and feel secure that 4 will improve what reach introduced.

 

[Tashi]

Frankie can you sprint, then activate Hologram and have your hologram sprinting? That would be pretty wild.

 

[Recarpo]

BUT - Halo 4 still supports four player split screen for MP

Will it be similar to reach where some playlists are only allowed 2 player splitscreen or is it 4 player across the board?

 

[The Henery]

Really? I think that with everyone having Sprint, the other armor abilities will have a lesser effect on the match then they do in Reach. We saw it in MLG before v7 when everyone had sprint. You could deal with Evade easier. You could sprint away if evade puts your in a bad position and you could also give chase. Against jetpack, you could run into a building or behind a different rock more quickly. It's when MLG removed sprint but kept Evade for that short period of time that Evade became a glaring problem to most.

I also think you helped proved my point when you asked, "Can you imagine if people could not choose Sprint in Reach? JetPack and Active camo everywhere" Exactly, it would be worse than if we could choose sprint. And now it's even better that everyone does have sprint.

Makes me think about the controls though. What's the Sprint button? what's the AA button? Do you have to toggle between them? Which button is that? Is there a cool down for either? Can I use them in conjunction. Subtle details that could make a big difference.

Except now, everyone has sprint and jetpack or camo. Sounds bad. I'll have to trust them.

As a bumper jumper user, I don't want to be excluded from jetpack for an entire game again. Have two variants of bumper jumper: the classic setup and the v2 with AA on the right bumper and melee mapped to the B button.

 

[indubitably]

I agree with you. Rich cool people play with one screen liek Richie Rich. Cool kids who are charitable play with 2 player split screen, like BJ McKay and his Best Friend Bear. Brady Bunch maniacs do four player split screen and I assume they fail at SWAT a lot. BUT - Halo 4 still supports four player split screen for MP - Brad was conflating co-op, I suspect.

*phew*

 

[Stinkles]

Will it be similar to reach where some playlists are only allowed 2 player splitscreen or is it 4 player across the board?

Not sure to be honest, that's something that would emerge from playlist testing, but it wouldn't be a technical limitation.

 

[Falagard]

see, halo reach came out and feel secure that 4 will improve what reach introduced.

Yeah, what I'm most confident in is that Halo 4 will have a playlist that I will enjoy more than any playlists in Reach. It will probably be the one without Jetpacks.

 

[Holiday]

Yeah. No gameplay footage or concrete details. We still assosciate AAs with Reach's implementation even though 343 spent their time with Reach removing them. They've changed. In what way? I don't know. I won't say they're clueless devs before I see what it is they have developed.

I envy your optimism. Their management of Reach playlists suggests to me that they are already sans clue.

 

[Myyke]

Personally? I liked them, except Armor Lock, but always felt like the ambiguity and randomness of what I could be encountering was scary. Like, will I get a game full of holograms? Will I only be fighting Jetpackers? Etc. Of course I say that as someone who uses Sprint, almost exclusively. If it were rock, paper, scissors, I always used rock, no matter what.

Halo 4 will feel different. For lots of reasons.

I am someone who also uses sprint pretty much exclusively; in Reach I just never really saw the utility of any ability other than sprint, my playstyle evolved around sprint so heavily that there was no incentive to swap it for anything else.

I am glad that sprint is returning as a "standard" ability as I personally think it has been the best addition to the core gameplay of the Halo series so far. I am also very interested to see to what degree AA's in Halo 4 are influencing people's playstyles, particularly whether there is still an influence for people to focus on a certain AA (like my experience with Reach) or if there is more incentive to mix it up with other AA's.

 

[The Librarian]

Well, they do say that fortune favours the brave.

"There's an old saying: Fortune favors the bold. Well...I guess we're about to find out."

 

[Overdoziz]

I agree with you. Rich cool people play with one screen liek Richie Rich. Cool kids who are charitable play with 2 player split screen, like BJ McKay and his Best Friend Bear. Brady Bunch maniacs do four player split screen and I assume they fail at SWAT a lot. BUT - Halo 4 still supports four player split screen for MP - Brad was conflating co-op, I suspect.

I feel like the entire video was edited a bit weird. With the CTF and now the splitscreen thing n all.

 

[op_ivy]

Frankie can you sprint, then activate Hologram and have your hologram sprinting? That would be pretty wild.

what if your hologram mirrored more then just sprinting? say you kill a guy, now you AND your hologram can teabag him!

 

[Tashi]

Except now, everyone has sprint and jetpack or camo. Sounds bad. I'll have to trust them.

As a bumper jumper user, I don't want to be excluded from jetpack for an entire game again. Have two variants of bumper jumper: the classic setup and the v2 with AA on the right bumper and melee mapped to the B button.

Yea but it's not like you can sprint in midair. And the faster your move with camo, the more visible you are.

Also, I play Recon. Just give me A to jump, B to melee. I can probably adapt to whatever else.

We still have to wait and see all the details first though. I'm just not as worried as a lot of others seem to be.

edit: LOL that would be amazing ivy! lol

 

[Hydranockz]

I am also someone who also uses sprint pretty much exclusively; in Reach I just never really saw the utility of any ability other than sprint, my playstyle evolved around sprint so heavily that there was no incentive to swap it for anything else.

I am glad that sprint is returning as a "standard" ability as I personally think it has been the best addition to the core gameplay of the Halo series so far. I am also very interested to see to what degree AA's in Halo 4 are influencing people's playstyles, particularly whether there is still an influence for people to focus on a certain AA (like my experience with Reach) or if there is more incentive to mix it up with other AA's.

The bolded is somehow an understatement.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Andy Richter is replacing Steve Downes?

Pre-Order Confirmed.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

I am also someone who also uses sprint and melee pretty much exclusively

Fixed.

Also OddOne, got your message on twitter, you will be hearing from my lawyers soon aka me.

 

[squidhands]

We're a new team. We're making changes. You can't try them yourselves yet. There is no other way to state it. We can't guarantee you'll like the changes, but we can state unambiguously that we think you'll like them, because most of these changes are things we would be (naturally) afraid of on paper, but found they worked great when implemented, so we're in a lot of ways, similar to you guys in terms of expectations, but with the comparative luxury of having tried and experienced them.. Ergo we have to politely request trust and keep feeding more and more information. And we have to ask for trust. If in the end, you decide it's not fun, or not the game for you, that request will still have been a polite request for patience while we roll out information. You don't have to trust us, but we still have to ask. It's manners.

Video and gameplay will go a long way to making people's minds up, and that will happen, but right now, all we have to work with is that.

I don't wanna hear about no motherfuckin' ifs. All I wanna hear from your ass is, You ain't got no problem, squid. I'm on the motherfucker. Go back in there, chill them GAFfers out and wait for the sparkcast which should be coming directly.

 

[Tashi]

I don't wanna hear about no motherfuckin' ifs. All I wanna hear from your ass is, You ain't got no problem, squid. I'm on the motherfucker. Go back in there, chill them GAFfers out and wait for the sparkcast which should be coming directly.

:lol :lol

 

[zlatko]

Finally the image I want to use as an avatar is available on GI's website.

Could someone scale avatarize this pic for me?

 

[The Henery]

I don't wanna hear about no motherfuckin' ifs. All I wanna hear from your ass is, You ain't got no problem, squid. I'm on the motherfucker. Go back in there, chill them GAFfers out and wait for the sparkcast which should be coming directly.

Nice

Frankie admitting these things sound bad on paper is the best thing I could've heard regarding the changes/additions. They do sound bad; I really hope they play as well as he says they do.

Yea but it's not like you can sprint in midair. And the faster your move with camo, the more visible you are.

Yes but the point is, where the jetpack or camo issue was once minor depending on how many players opted for sprint, now that you always have sprint, jetpacks and camo will be far more prevalent as you must choose an additional ability to sprint by default. This means that where once I would be sprinting around Reflection (to use a Reach example), I now use jetpack too and am just one more player completely breaking the map.

 

[Arnie]

That's such a beautiful character model. Minus the shit around his jaw, but I'm sure I can rectify that with a few Spartan Points.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Pre-Order Confirmed.

Steve isn't happy with your post.

 

[Homeboyd]

I don't wanna hear about no motherfuckin' ifs. All I wanna hear from your ass is, You ain't got no problem, squid. I'm on the motherfucker. Go back in there, chill them GAFfers out and wait for the sparkcast which should be coming directly.

Nicely done.

Just watched that again last Friday.

 

[TS x Massacre]

As soothed as I am by Frank's words each and everyday and I feel like it'll relate to me as I'm scared as hell of these changes on paper but can see some merit to them, I still hope it's not true that when Brad said custom games will be our main option for people who don't like the changes. I think it's imperative to at least have two playlists where it's just like traditional Halo and not shove that into a corner into customs only like Brad( or the editing by GI ) seemed to imply.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Ergo we have to politely request trust and keep feeding more and more information. And we have to ask for trust. If in the end, you decide it's not fun, or not the game for you, that request will still have been a polite request for patience while we roll out information. You don't have to trust us, but we still have to ask. It's manners.

I guess I'm coming at it from a different angle.
Ye make the decisions, ye are the gate keepers, so in a sense we have to trust you (or storm the castle and I'd rather avoid fiddling with 434's doornobs).
I don't think saying "You just have to trust us" in a 4 minute video filled with stuff that would be (as ye are well aware) alarming stuff to traditionalists is a constructive statement.
I realise that equally you don't want the videos/interviews to sound rehearsed and come from the heart but .. a better balance can be struck.

Eh, I'm probably being unfair, but I think there were better ways to talk about the changes in that video.

Edit: The great irony is as soon as the non O'Connor/Holmes/Wolfkill/Tojima front runners appear I'm critical. I'm sorry, if you're reading this Brad. Hope to hear you on the podcast and elsewhere!

 

[Hydranockz]

I guess I'm coming at it from a different angle.
Ye make the decisions, ye are the gate keepers, so in a sense we have to trust you (or storm the castle and I'd rather avoid fiddling with 434's doornobs).
I don't think saying "You just have to trust us" in a 4 minute video filled without stuff that would be (as ye are well aware) alarming stuff to traditionalists is a constructive statement.
I realise that equally you don't want the videos/interviews to sound rehearsed and come from the heart but .. a better balance can be struck.

Eh, I'm probably being unfair, but I think there were better ways to talk about the changes in that video.

Given how nervous he looks in the video (to some extent) with the way he kept spinning on that chair, I'd imagine it's very easy to succumb to saying 'silly' cliched things. Of couse they gotta keep a positive spin on things and I have no doubt someone more versed with media interaction could handl it better. I find it hard to be critical of camera interviews. Shit's tough man.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

The landscape nature of it makes a bit more difficult than most, but here you go:

Given how nervous he looks in the video (to some extent) with the way he kept spinning on that chair, I'd imagine it's very easy to succumb to saying 'silly' cliched things. Of couse they gotta keep a positive spin on things and I have no doubt someone more versed with media interaction could handl it better. I find it hard to be critical of camera interviews. Shit's tough man.

I partially agree.
But Bungie managed it pretty well (?). And I think this is important enough that you take the time to get it right. Wasn't that part of the motivation in a slower media campaign?

 

[indubitably]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=w7-Hn5X-lIc#t=215s

Bungie on AA's and AL

Wow, that video came out april 22nd, should we be expecting something this comprehensive in a little under a week?

 

[kylej]

Not falling for the "trust us" again. Is there a single person at 343 outside of some old Bungie holdovers and David Ellis who have played more than 1000 games of Halo in their life? Anyone play even remotely competitively? Ever? It's all fine to say it's balanced and works great in an environment of relatively unskilled people, the problem is this stuff never gets played and tested by "skilled" members of the community. I mean, Bungie told people to trust them, and they didn't realize the space section of Zealot with no kill timer would be exploited.

Halo 4 looks like another weak swipe at COD - just like Reach - only more disjointed and disastrous. X-ray vision, camo, all this stuff is nonsense. I want to time weapons, force spawns, grab map control, and out think & out play the other team, not run around in an FFA bonanza of randomized armor abilities that were fun to a guy who has played 3 hours of Halo in his life.

 

[Shadders]

So I take it there's no way to watch Conan O'Brien in the UK?

What time is it on?

 

[Overdoziz]

Not falling for the "trust us" again. Is there a single person at 343 outside of some old Bungie holdovers and David Ellis who have played more than 1000 games of Halo in their life? Anyone play even remotely competitively? Ever? It's all fine to say it's balanced and works great in an environment of relatively unskilled people, the problem is this stuff never gets played and tested by "skilled" members of the community. I mean, Bungie told people to trust them, and they didn't realize the space section of Zealot with no kill timer would be exploited.

Halo 4 looks like another weak swipe at COD - just like Reach - only more disjointed and disastrous. X-ray vision, camo, all this stuff is nonsense. I want to time weapons, force spawns, grab map control, and out think & out play the other team, not run around in an FFA bonanza of randomized armor abilities that were fun to a guy who has played 3 hours of Halo in his life.

Regicide really sounds like one of those Bungie gametypes that are so much "crazy fun".

 

[Karl2177]

Wow, that video came out april 22nd, should we be expecting something this comprehensive in a little under a week?

Considering the first bit of sustainable info came out months after Reach's, I'd say no.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Not falling for the "trust us" again. Is there a single person at 343 outside of some old Bungie holdovers and David Ellis who have played more than 1000 games of Halo in their life? Anyone play even remotely competitively? Ever? It's all fine to say it's balanced and works great in an environment of relatively unskilled people, the problem is this stuff never gets played and tested by "skilled" members of the community. I mean, Bungie told people to trust them, and they didn't realize the space section of Zealot with no kill timer would be exploited.

Halo 4 looks like another weak swipe at COD - just like Reach - only more disjointed and disastrous. X-ray vision, camo, all this stuff is nonsense. I want to time weapons, force spawns, grab map control, and out think & out play the other team, not run around in an FFA bonanza of randomized armor abilities that were fun to a guy who has played 3 hours of Halo in his life.

Can you please start a youtube video rant channel?

 

[Tashi]

Fuchsdh just sent me a VERY nice logo submission. I love it. This is gonna be a tight race. I have 2 submissions so far, the more the merrier.

 

[zlatko]

The landscape nature of it makes a bit more difficult than most, but here you go:

I partially agree.
But Bungie managed it pretty well (?). And I think this is important enough that you take the time to get it right. Wasn't that part of the motivation in a slower media campaign?

Excellent! Thank you Zeouterlimits.

I can usually do minor image editing on photobucket.com, but yeah when they are landscapeish pics I have a hard time resizing and making things look right, but you did a great job.

 

[Hydranockz]

Regicide really sounds like one of those Bungie gametypes that are so much "fun" and "crazy".

Sounds like Juggernaut :/

 

[Fuchsdh]

Fuchsdh just sent me a VERY nice logo submission. I love it. This is gonna be a tight race. I have 2 submissions so far, the more the merrier.

That was a slapdash raster job, but I can vector trace it if it actually is used. "Good enough" is my motto.

Looking forward to seeing the sure awesomesauce of everyone else's.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Regicide really sounds like one of those Bungie gametypes that are so much "crazy fun".

Everytime I hear regicide...

Every time.

 

[Havok]

Regicide really sounds like one of those Bungie gametypes that are so much "crazy fun".

The good news is it'll be confined to the FFA ghetto and won't be forced on people in team playlists like VIP and Hot Potato were.

 

[Overdoziz]

Sounds like Juggernaut :/

Sounds like you're punishing the player who gets the most kills by putting a waypoint above his head.

 

[El_Chino]

The good news is it'll be confined to the FFA ghetto and won't be forced on people in team playlists like VIP and Hot Potato were.

FFA ghetto?

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Sounds like Juggernaut :/

Juggernaut's always been a weird one. Love it in LAN settings (with friends, not the crazy rabid nutters) for a fun laugh but online it never gained a footing.

This is old, but I certainly hadn't seen it before:

 

[kylej]

Can you please start a youtube video rant channel?

Matt Taibbi is my idol of cynicism and crippling despair. Read his stuff if you want to read what I would write if I had the time or desire.

His (somewhat) famous Goldman piece will make you want to kill yourself - http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405

 

[Havok]

FFA ghetto?

FFA hasn't really had any substantial attention paid to it in a very long time, and most players, at least around here, barely acknowledge that it exists.

I thought it was an apt description.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Frank, David, I know Game Informer is still on newsstands, but will we get the scenes they had in bigger wallpaper sizes? The one I wanted specifically was on their last video with the warthog image overlooking the landscape.

Still waiting on the Halo 3 loading screen as a screensaver.

 

[Tashi]

Frank, David, I know Game Informer is still on newsstands, but will we get the scenes they had in bigger wallpaper sizes? The one I wanted specifically was on their last video with the warthog image overlooking the landscape.

Still waiting on the Halo 3 loading screen as a screensaver.

Why wait?