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Halo |OT3| Remember Reach?

Z

zlatko

Banned
Zeouterlimits said:
Juggernaut's always been a weird one. Love it in LAN settings (with friends, not the crazy rabid nutters) for a fun laugh but online it never gained a footing.

This is old, but I certainly hadn't seen it before:
Click to expand...

Would buy that porno.

"Long dong John, the 117 inch pecker king of 'head shots'".
 
B

BackdoorBeauty

Member
thee henery said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=w7-Hn5X-lIc#t=215s

Bungie on AA's and AL
Click to expand...

I think 343 is approaching Halo 4 from the perspective that Reach was a success. It may have sold well, but it was a design failure. All the major new features shipped on disc had to be tweaked over the past year. (Bloom, AAs, basic map functionality.. (Zealot))

That ViDoc makes me:

tumblr_m04czpdBv81qzlvmi.gif


Quotes from the ViDoc:

Armor lock:
"Armor lock breeds smarter combat."
"Armor lock is insane. Its super powerful, I love it."
"It is just fucking fun."

Whatever. Who cares!

tumblr_lzncb2olPw1qbdrypo1_250.gif
 
M

m23

Member
One of my biggest questions is whether bleed through damage will be in Halo 4. Has it been talked about yet?
 
B

BackdoorBeauty

Member
F

Fuchsdh

Member
Deputy Moonman

Deputy Moonman

Member
Zeouterlimits said:
I definitely don't think that's true. At the very least it's a case of "we can get right what they got wrong and do even more".
Click to expand...
That is just as scary of a thought as anything though. I'm still adamant that the biggest stumbling block for game developers is thinking that they have to keep everything from previous iterations of a game series no matter what. NO! Cut the ugly fat, stick to what works, and stop trying to appease the masses who are so mind numbingly clueless that they'd buy a game about house keeping as long as it had Halo in the title.
 
K

Korosenai

Member
kylej said:
Not falling for the "trust us" again. Is there a single person at 343 outside of some old Bungie holdovers and David Ellis who have played more than 1000 games of Halo in their life? Anyone play even remotely competitively? Ever? It's all fine to say it's balanced and works great in an environment of relatively unskilled people, the problem is this stuff never gets played and tested by "skilled" members of the community. I mean, Bungie told people to trust them, and they didn't realize the space section of Zealot with no kill timer would be exploited.

Halo 4 looks like another weak swipe at COD - just like Reach - only more disjointed and disastrous. X-ray vision, camo, all this stuff is nonsense. I want to time weapons, force spawns, grab map control, and out think & out play the other team, not run around in an FFA bonanza of randomized armor abilities that were fun to a guy who has played 3 hours of Halo in his life.
Click to expand...
Beautiful
 
R

Reagan's BR

Banned
Just give everyone no AAs and no sprint. Classic Halo. I don't want to have to go into a special playlist to play classic Halo that just splits the user base.

All of the fans are asking for is Halo 2/3 with better net code, improved graphics, an expanded sandbox, and more maps.
 
T

Thermite

Member
kylej said:
Halo 4 looks like another weak swipe at COD - just like Reach - only more disjointed and disastrous. X-ray vision, camo, all this stuff is nonsense. I want to time weapons, force spawns, grab map control, and out think & out play the other team, not run around in an FFA bonanza of randomized armor abilities that were fun to a guy who has played 3 hours of Halo in his life.
Click to expand...

Good fucking lord, yes! ALL OF THIS.
 
F

feel

Member
I don't even care anymore, our opinion doesn't matter, bring on another shit Halo if you really must, I'll still play it anyways because there's nothing else as good out there.
 
R

Reagan's BR

Banned
Tashi0106 said:
Your opinion equals fact imo
Click to expand...

I know the fact that it is just my opinion and their opinion in this instance is in theory just as valid as mine.

It has just been my experience that the people who support every gameplay change are people who enjoy all Halo games because it has the word Halo in the title. Vanilla Reach is hardly Halo but a lot of people like it because it is called Halo and anything called Halo can do no wrong. Personally, I play Reach because it is the only game with a decent number of users that is some what reminiscent of Halo.
 
R

Rand0m TAG

Member
Letters said:
I don't even care anymore, our opinion doesn't matter, bring on another shit Halo if you really must, I'll still play it anyways because there's nothing else as good out there.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately this is true... Only thing keeping me in reach is that their isn't a better alternative
 
Z

Zeouterlimits

Member
Awesome Barlow said:
Yes...and those are the same people who would like halo if it is a racing game.
Click to expand...
That's.. really flippant and a little arrogant.
mastrbiggy said:
You guys do know that Halo 3 is still functional...right?
Click to expand...
Ugh, way to undermine yourself. Not only is that a complete fallacy argument, the netcode leaves a lot to be desired.
You may forget this, but people want to like Halo 4. Hell, people here hope it'll be something they love.
 
B

Biggest-Geek-Ever

Member
I don't believe for a second that people asking for the same gameplay as Halo 3 are anything but delusional. You got burnt on Halo Reach, fine, but you're crazy if you think a completely "vanilla Halo" is a good business model.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Awesome Barlow said:
I know the fact that it is just my opinion and their opinion in this instance is in theory just as valid as mine.

It has just been my experience that the people who support every gameplay change are people who enjoy all Halo games because it has the word Halo in the title. Vanilla Reach is hardly Halo but a lot of people like it because it is called Halo and anything called Halo can do no wrong. Personally, I play Reach because it is the only game with a decent number of users that is some what reminiscent of Halo.
Click to expand...
So what's Halo to you? What makes Halo, Halo?
 
G

Garrett 2U

Member
I mean.. I don't like Armor Abilities..
But it is better that they are going all out on them rather than Reach's conservative approach.
AAs really felt out of place in Halo Reach.
The maps weren't designed for them. Most of the abilities were useless.
All of them lacked personality...
They got in the way of the gameplay rather than complementing it.

I'm really, really, really hoping 343i has managed to nail them down.
Which they said they have..
But that makes me wonder why they won't discuss any of them in further detail.

I feel like almost everyone in the Halo Community is worried about Armor Abilities.
It seems like it would be logical for 343i to discuss what changes they are making.
 
R

Rand0m TAG

Member
Boomwood said:
I mean.. I don't like Armor Abilities..
But it is better that they are going all out on them rather than Reach's conservative approach.
AAs really felt out of place in Halo Reach.
The maps weren't designed for them. Most of the abilities were useless.
All of them lacked personality...
They got in the way of the gameplay rather than complementing it.

I'm really, really, really hoping 343i has managed to nail them down.
Which they said they have..
But that makes me wonder why they won't discuss any of them in further detail.

I feel like almost everyone in the Halo Community is worried about Armor Abilities.
It seems like it would be logical for 343i to discuss what changes they are making.
Click to expand...
If halo does armor abilities similarly how transformers did it, but I will be happy
 
Z

Zeouterlimits

Member
Biggest-Geek-Ever said:
I don't believe for a second that people asking for the same gameplay as Halo 3 are anything but delusional. You got burnt on Halo Reach, fine, but you're crazy if you think a completely "vanilla Halo" is a good business model.
Click to expand...
People know it can't be Halo 3 in HD. You may not gather that, but people here, they aren't stupid, we've expected, and even welcomed the idea of a certain level of change/innovation.
But that doesn't mean they believe going whole hog with changes like instant spawns is a good idea either. There's a sizeable core bunch who preferred H2/H3 to Reach. It's not a good business model to ignore them either (not suggesting 343I is doing this at all).

I wouldn't be so sure the CoDification (lets just call it that for now) is business model lead either, merely what the devs feel passionate to make.
mastrbiggy said:
I'm not sure what you're getting at. I want to like Halo 4 too. I'm just saying for all those people who just want Halo 2/3 again to continue to play Halo 3. To expect a faithful recreation of Halo 2/3 isn't feasible.
Click to expand...
What I'm getting that, is that the sensible people here (most) did not expect Halo 4 to be Halo 3 in HD. That may be how you're reading it, but that's just not the case. As I say to BGE above in this post, it's a negative reaction to some of the changes because where does the line exist of what is a Halo FPS and what is a game with the Halo name on it. Some of the changes go beyond the bounds of what some people are comfortable with. This isn't them asking for Halo 3 in HD, this is them wanting to love the next step in one of their favourite franchises.
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
Tashi0106 said:
So what's Halo to you? What makes Halo, Halo?
Click to expand...

Others can answer this too, yes?

Dat mix of vehicles and infantry combat. No other game does it just right, like Halo.
The Battlefield series comes close but the game is fundamentally different... the scale is different as is its focus.
I think my biggest disappointment* with Reach is the lack of vehicles in 4v4 games. BTB is fun, as long as it is not the shit called BTB Heavies (among the worst ideas ever, in Halo 3 and Reach) but BTB limits the game to bigger maps, which play very differently from smaller maps. Not to mention Halos usually have more smaller maps, meaning more variety in 4v4 games.

*AAs are atrociously balanced, bloom is too random, weapon balance is weak (but then this is a common denominator in Halo series...), vehicles are... wrong. But i can live with all this, it still feels Halo, if a bit weak one. Still, it is a better game than many others.
 
R

Reagan's BR

Banned
Tashi0106 said:
So what's Halo to you? What makes Halo, Halo?
Click to expand...


Something derivative of this...

Halo for me is when all players spawn with the same base traits, no changes (loadouts). All of the players have the same starting weapon. Each player has a regenerating energy shield. Each player has two weapon slots. There are set locations where set weapons appear at set intervals on the map. The player may pick up said weapons if he chooses. The whole game is built around shooting, throwing grenades, and bashing things in with the but of your gun.

That is more or less it.

Now I said derivative. Dual wielding was derivative. Equipment, poorly implemented as it was, was derivative. Even assassinations, though I do not like them, are derivative. AA's are not, the break the idea of initial equality on spawn.

If you want to make a change to Halo you should not break the base traits that define the game. Do you want a new feature for Halo 4? Add something that is derivative of the original formula. A jet pack placed on the map for people to rush to pick up would be derivative. Yes, I am not in favor of adding sprint as a base trait. That said, so long as everyone has it, then it works. The thing with Halo 4 is that not everyone is getting sprint but they are also getting the option to choose between seeing through walls or becoming invisible off the start. That breaks the rule of equality on spawn.
 
Z

Zeouterlimits

Member
mastrbiggy said:
We are all passionate over the topic, but we still have a lot to learn about the game so lets not assume that these unfavorable gameplay changes are consistent throughout the entire multiplayer suite. Many of us have already drawn conclusions to what Halo 4 is, I know I am guilty of this.

Lets wait and see, but still continue to voice our concerns in a polite and respectful way.
Click to expand...
1) We've been told the wait & see line for a while.
I say this again & again: we can only comment on the facts in front of us.
2) People have been asking for gameplay, they want to understand and hopefully enjoy.
3) We're "polite" 80% of the time, this is an internet gaming forum for better or worse. I for one agree, but a certain level of awareness and humour regarding context goes a long way.
mastrbiggy said:
You have to admit that 343 has been really good about supporting the community with Reach and fiction. So I do have faith in Halo 4.
Click to expand...
My response to this is rather harsh on 343.

So I'll respectfully disagree. 343I have been good, but have made plenty of mistakes with Reach and the product they shipped, Anniversary.
 
Deputy Moonman

Deputy Moonman

Member
Progress for the sake of progress must be discouraged. Let us preserve what must be preserved, perfect what can be perfected and prune practices that ought to be... prohibited!
Click to expand...
This actually makes sense if we're talking about Halo. Amor abilities and perks alone are cringe-worthy...

18736911.jpg
 
M

Myyke

Neo Member
Awesome Barlow said:
Something derivative of this...

Halo for me is when all players spawn with the same base traits, no changes (loadouts). All of the players have the same starting weapon. Each player has a regenerating energy shield. Each player has two weapon slots. There are set locations where set weapons appear at set intervals on the map. The player may pick up said weapons if he chooses. The whole game is built around shooting, throwing grenades, and bashing things in with the but of your gun.

That is more or less it.

Now I said derivative. Dual wielding was derivative. Equipment, poorly implemented as it was, was derivative. Even assassinations, though I do not like them, are derivative. AA's are not, the break the idea of initial equality on spawn.

If you want to make a change to Halo you should not break the base traits that define the game. Do you want a new feature for Halo 4? Add something that is derivative of the original formula. A jet pack placed on the map for people to rush to pick up would be derivative. Yes, I am not in favor of adding sprint as a base trait. That said, so long as everyone has it, then it works. The thing with Halo 4 is that not everyone is getting sprint but they are also getting the option to choose between seeing through walls or becoming invisible off the start. That breaks the rule of equality on spawn.
Click to expand...

Could it not be said though, that since everyone should technically be able to choose from the same armour abilities as anyone else, equality is still maintained?
 
R

Reagan's BR

Banned
Myyke said:
Could it not be said though, that since everyone should technically be able to choose from the same armour abilities as anyone else, equality is still maintained?
Click to expand...

I would argue no because while everyone has the the same choices when the spawn different players have different advantages. The only advantage or disadvantage that someone should have is skill.
 
H

Homeboyd

Member
Myyke said:
Could it not be said though, that since everyone should technically be able to choose from the same armour abilities as anyone else, equality is still maintained?
Click to expand...
Depends on how they segment skilled players vs less skilled players. If I have access to certain abilities, modifications or guns as a higher skilled player than someone who is a lower skilled player (because they haven't yet unlocked these same abilities, modifications or guns) in the same match, then no.

I'm guessing there will be some sort of divisions in matches though that pit people with the same unlocks against others with similar unlocks.
 
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