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Halo |OT4| Trust's a Tough Thing to Come by These Days

A

Arnie

Member
Overdoz1z said:
Crysis 2 has killcams in first person.
I still feel like they should only add the final killcam, nor after every kill.
Click to expand...

I think it's a good way to fill the time spent dead in competitive playlists, as well as giving you an insight into what actually killed you. You now know whether those bullshit grenades are intentional. Given the amount of crazy shit that happens in Halo, I anticipate the killcam will provide lots of awesome moments on the fly. It's like the best bits of theatre but you don't need to manually find them.
 
R

Risen

Member
Louis Wu said:
You're making the same sorts of generalizations (well, with different assumptions, of course) as he was.

What you call flaws, some people call benefits. The idea that awareness only comes with high skill is actually offensive. (It's a common assumption here - casuals are clueless. The concept that some people might ENJOY the parts of the game that drive you crazy is inconceivable, so you mark it down as "they have no idea what they're doing".)

I'm not defending the video - I think he's as myopic as you are, just with a different focus. I'm simply suggesting that there are more reasons than "casuals are too stupid to know what they shouldn't like" for why people play lists you hate.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure it's so simple. Sure everyone enjoys their own "thing". Some people enjoyed lifting to space on Zealot and camping with a lead of 2 and making it near impossible for the other team to break it. That doesn't mean it makes for good game play. Likewise - it doesn't follow that this isn't a flaw. Most casuals wouldn't have thought of that until they saw it in action. Most highly competitive people would look at it and see it immediately. Obviously in terms of balanced game play, the structure of Zealot was flawed regarding the area in low gravity.

Again, take The Cage. Most highly competitive people looked at the initial footage and guffawed. Sure, people may have a ton of fun using jetpack, and playing the lotto on initial spawns... but that doesn't make it a balanced map with good flow.

What he is calling a flaw... is obviously a flaw within a given framework. Someone else's framework may differ, and they not see any one thing the same way as a result. But that's not necessarily myopic. It's not looking at the flaw to the exclusion of all else... it's looking at the flaw in light of specifics.

He didn't say awareness only comes with high skill... he said high skilled players all have high awareness (relatively speaking). Those are two very different statements. In the latter, he's explaining why things are exploited more quickly. Higher skilled players typically break the game down into finer detail than the casual player and are aware of much more going on at any given point in time.
 
O

Overdoziz

Banned
Arnie said:
I think it's a good way to fill the time spent dead in competitive playlists, as well as giving you an insight into what actually killed you. You now know whether those bullshit grenades are intentional. Given the amount of crazy shit that happens in Halo, I anticipate the killcam will provide lots of awesome moments on the fly. It's like the best bits of theatre but you don't need to manually find them.
Click to expand...
Just noticed that our avatars match quite nicely.



Edit: Why are they playing green vs yellow in nearly all of the leaked screenshots?
 
L

Louis Wu

Member
Risen said:
Again, take The Cage. Most highly competitive people looked at the initial footage and guffawed. Sure, people may have a ton of fun using jetpack, and playing the lotto on initial spawns... but that doesn't make it a balanced map with good flow.
Click to expand...
C'mon, seriously? You're trying to tell me that there's an absolute definition of 'balanced' and 'good flow' (with exactly one way to achieve it)? I've heard COMPETITIVE PLAYERS espouse COMPLETELY OPPOSITE VIEWPOINTS on the flow of a given map - are you saying that one is right and one is wrong? And if you are, how can I accept that any viewpoint put forth by ANYONE is 'right' - I mean, if you say there's really only one answer, but I was listening to an expert who said something different, how would I know it wasn't the right answer? Who is the authority I should believe over all others?

(I have heard pros talk about how shitty Zealot is - and I've heard them talk about how great it is. Same map, different people. You can't POSSIBLY tell me that there's really an absolute right answer as to the quality of a map.)

My point is simple: an awful lot of gameplay - ANY gameplay, any game - is subjective. There is no 'right way' to do things, in a lot of instances. To me, anyone who says "this group knows best" is wrong - no matter WHAT group we're talking about. There IS no best - it depends entirely on what you want out of the game. And it's clear that pros want something different out of the game than non-pros.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Arnie said:
I think it's a good way to fill the time spent dead in competitive playlists, as well as giving you an insight into what actually killed you. You now know whether those bullshit grenades are intentional. Given the amount of crazy shit that happens in Halo, I anticipate the killcam will provide lots of awesome moments on the fly. It's like the best bits of theatre but you don't need to manually find them.
Click to expand...

yeah, it may also help people pick up on strategies a bit easier - seeing skilled or new ways to combat folks
 
Z

zap

Member
HiredN00bs said:
If someone in the US were to pre-order from say, Mighty Ape (in NZ), would the bonus DLC marketplace codes be valid on a US Xbox or US Xbox LIVE account?
Click to expand...

I think that they would work, however the game will be PAL (unless it's region free), so you couldn't play it in the States.

Also, Mighty Ape's stuff is just a combination of the MS store and Best Buy skins, no?

Der Flatulator said:
Any other Australians? EB is giving away double sided Halo 4 posters as a pre-order bonus.
http://www.ebgames.com.au/xbox360-157737-Halo-4-Limited-Edition-Xbox-360

However I think this means no skins.

Thanks to Hedgemony for the heads up
Click to expand...

I wish EB in NZ was doing this. Those posters looks sweet.
 
C

Computron

Member
iNM2RZRXzfixv.gif
 
S

Shadders

Member
I don't know if you should get a killcam if you died by sniper, seems a bit harsh to give away a sniper's position - even though it's usually fairly obvious.
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Shadders said:
I don't know if you should get a killcam if you died by sniper, seems a bit harsh to give away a sniper's position - even though it's usually fairly obvious.
Click to expand...

A sniper is only hidden until he fires. You'd be silly not to know where the shot came from after you've been shot, the trail always gives it away.

I have no problem with killcams. Just hope they include the game winning kill from COD. It's one of the things I loved when I played COD.
 
B

bobs...onGaf

Member
Shadders said:
I don't know if you should get a killcam if you died by sniper, seems a bit harsh to give away a sniper's position - even though it's usually fairly obvious.
Click to expand...

Well sniping in Halo has never really been about finding a hiding spot, they put that big white trail in by design, I have always thought of the Halo Sniper as more of a railgun than a traditional sniper.

Reach made it very easy for camo camping snipers, I hope that changes, from the sounds of it, if the leaks are to be believed, the sniper is VERY hard to use. Delicious. :) I hope it feels more like a satisfying surgeons blade, than the dull blunt instrument it feels like in Reach.

Also a Sniper would generally need to move position in a more realistic game anyway, im kind of happy with how a kill cam will affect snipers. It will also be amazing in customs when you can see just how badly you got blained, and vice versa.

I really hope game winning killcams are in.

EDIT: Also I hate to be that guy, but repetitive large images just suck, especially when your a mobile browser with a limited tariff. For some reason even with pic's turned off some manage to sneak through. I dont normally really care, but when the size just doesnt justify what they are, its a little annoying.
 
K

Ken

Member
Shadders said:
I don't know if you should get a killcam if you died by sniper, seems a bit harsh to give away a sniper's position - even though it's usually fairly obvious.
Click to expand...

If you snipe someone and you don't change positions afterwards you're doing it wrong.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
As long as I can ignore killcams or turn them off, I don't care. That's just a feature that's never appealed to me, although I can see why it would for others.

I just really *really* hope the HUD isn't cluttered; making clean icons and waypoints is a far better solution than lots of text, especially if you've got to keep track of things like weapons drops and such.
 
R

Risen

Member
Louis Wu said:
C'mon, seriously? You're trying to tell me that there's an absolute definition of 'balanced' and 'good flow' (with exactly one way to achieve it)? I've heard COMPETITIVE PLAYERS espouse COMPLETELY OPPOSITE VIEWPOINTS on the flow of a given map - are you saying that one is right and one is wrong? And if you are, how can I accept that any viewpoint put forth by ANYONE is 'right' - I mean, if you say there's really only one answer, but I was listening to an expert who said something different, how would I know it wasn't the right answer? Who is the authority I should believe over all others?

(I have heard pros talk about how shitty Zealot is - and I've heard them talk about how great it is. Same map, different people. You can't POSSIBLY tell me that there's really an absolute right answer as to the quality of a map.)

My point is simple: an awful lot of gameplay - ANY gameplay, any game - is subjective. There is no 'right way' to do things, in a lot of instances. To me, anyone who says "this group knows best" is wrong - no matter WHAT group we're talking about. There IS no best - it depends entirely on what you want out of the game. And it's clear that pros want something different out of the game than non-pros.
Click to expand...

You place words in my mouth... one way to achieve it (balance and flow)? lol NO - and I didn't come close to implying that.

I'm not saying "a particular group knows best" in OVERALL and in EVERYTHING. I am saying typically, competitive players - players who break the game down and see more than the average player - are immediately better prepared to break the game. That's SPECIFIC... and not in exclusion to all else.

Can I POSSIBLY tell you that there is an absolute right answer to the quality of a map? I can if I nail down certain parameters. But ONLY if it is quality as it relates to something specific. Would it be an opinion? Yeah... but it would be an informed and demonstrable one... and one that would likely benefit the greatest percentage of players.

Nail down what we are playing, and the typical highly competitive person will tell you fairly quickly how it can be broken. Saying a map is shitty, or great... is saying nothing. Saying a map is shitty because it can absolutely be abused to the detriment of all players, and here's how... is saying something, and something worth while. I could give two shits about the typical Pro's opinion on what is shitty or great when they are speaking in general terms. Tell me WHY something is shitty or great and we can discuss if the opinion has value.

Most people... by far the majority... espouse opinions in Halo (or gaming in general) on likes and dislikes derived from some performance metric. Hey I struggle on that map so it's trash. Or I love that map so it's great. The laser is overpowered because it kills a vehicle in one shot so I can't rape in the tank. It's all bunk... and has nothing to do with balance in a game.

Zealot in it's initial offering was broken in terms of BALANCE and FLOW. Get a lead, go to space, laugh at the bad kids trying to break you out of there... and win. Once a team is up there, and provided they have thumbs... the game is over. There were not sufficient ways to gain access to the top, and once you get there you move in slow motion with no ability to change course (balance and flow).

Again... The Cage... it's not subjective to say there were only two ways to the top (without jetpack) in the initial offering. The snipe lift, and the opposite walkway. Spawn high... hold high... and win. Spawn low and you have only two options with no cover to fight to high ground. (balance and flow). Again - those terms balance and flow can have absolutes when you combine with specifics.
 
A

Arnie

Member
JonCha said:
How are you comparing Brendan Rogers and Halo 4 again?
Click to expand...

I'm saying that my mood correlates with that of my football club; I'm not suggesting Brendan Rogers is somehow related to Halo 4 in any way, shape or form. One's a melting pop of continental tactical nouse, the other has a killcam.
 
T

Tha Robbertster

Member
Fuchsdh said:
As long as I can ignore killcams or turn them off, I don't care. That's just a feature that's never appealed to me, although I can see why it would for others.

I just really *really* hope the HUD isn't cluttered; making clean icons and waypoints is a far better solution than lots of text, especially if you've got to keep track of things like weapons drops and such.
Click to expand...

Lucky for you, you can get that pesky kill cam away by pressing X. (At least in slayer gametypes)

I think it'll be a reason to me to spawn as fast as possible. I don't need to see how lag got me killed.


Myyke said:
Ohhhh, so that's what that slurping noise was!
Click to expand...

ohyou-1.jpg


(You see, you wouldn't have seen this edit with the chrome extension :p)
 
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