Support NeoGAF

[Hydranockz]

Dudes, Promethean Vision.

Dudes.

The visual effect doesn't appear to inhibit the player whatsoever. Why wouldn't everyone just use this?

Well, not one of the pros used Hologram. Had they at least tried it, they could have very easily fooled the PV users. From what I have gathered, if you use PV, you really can't tell if that red body is real or not. You don't see gamertags in PV (or d you?) but as far as PV users are concerned, holograms look identical to other players.

Plus, there is a counter to it that isn't Hologram. Honestly, I am not that worried. PV users have one less trick up their sleeve in 1v1 combat. Can't use a shield, can't thrust or jetpack.

 

[HigherLevel]

With PV on you should only see enemies, and lose the ability to see the geometry of the map.

 

[Havok]

Hoaxer picks up overshield (Haven, 3:00 mark), and is invincible for a full ten seconds before the overshield even starts taking damage, taking a grenade and at least two BR shots with zero effect on him.

:| I thought we might finally be past this awful mechanic with an instant-charge overshield.

Wow. It's a shame Halo 4 has gone gold and a balance issue/bug like that slipped through. 343 just shot themselves in their invincible foot.

Please, leave the snark at the door. OS invincibility frames have made it a pain in the ass for two games now, seeing it again is disheartening. If you're gonna bitch about me drawing conclusions from this footage, might as well do it to every single person doing the same for the past ten pages.

 

[HigherLevel]

Hoaxer picks up overshield (Haven, 3:00 mark), and is invincible for a full eleven seconds before the overshield even starts taking damage, taking a grenade and at least two BR shots with zero effect on him.

:| I thought we might finally be past this awful mechanic with an instant-charge overshield.

Portable armor lock!

 

[kylej]

If this was true you would never see title updates. I mean 343 took the time to release an update that improved Reach when it wasn't even their own game. Of course devs are never going to do every specific thing fans ask for because it's impossible to do everything everybody asks for, but to say they don't even listen is not true at all.

We have to rely on Twitter messages and gameplay of MLG pros to try to piece together Halo 4 multiplayer, while its developer's weekly updates are filled with grunt pictures and double-speak. It's one thing to remove Squad Slayer without explaining why -- (hell we still don't even know who is in charge of Reach playlists) -- because at least that isn't their game and they apparently have all hands on deck for this new project. It's another when people are still scrounging around for information and left with countless questions after E3 has finished.

The ball hasn't just been dropped, we don't even know what the hell the ball is.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

Hoaxer picks up overshield, and is invincible for a full eleven seconds before the overshield even starts taking damage, taking a grenade and at least two BR shots with zero effect on him.

:| I thought we were past this.

Wow. It's a shame Halo 4 has gone gold and a balance issue/bug like that slipped through. 343 just shot themselves in their invincible foot.

 

[Tha Robbertster]

Now that I have seen nearly all the videos, I have to say the gameplay does not really interest me that much. I think I haven't watched about 3 full gameplay videos and I'm not inclined to do so. It looks a lot like Reach IMO.

Killtimes seam to be about as fast as in Reach, people sprinting all the time and people were only using one AA. Prometean vision looks kinda over powered and when as many people use it as in the MLG vids, I can see gameplay slow down a lot during actual matchmaking matches. Also the BR being 5 shot still bugs me. If you're gonna bring back the BR, bring it back with the same power it had in all the previous games it was in.

The announcer also sounds pretty bad compared to the previous games. I felt that in general, there was way to much happening when you got a kill or just did something. For example, when you got the ''distraction'' reward, the white text pups op, you get a medal and the announcer calls it out for you. That just seems like a bit too much feedback. Also, the white text in general is bad.

There also seems to be a lot of potential for abuse with all these new sandbox elements. Spawning with a plasma pistol for example. It can completely ruin vehicle combat if it retains its EMP function. The noob combo seems to return in al its glory too. And then there is the sticky pistol thing, which just asks for abuse.

Another thing I don't like (and this not really about the video, but it was brought up in one) is that I still don't understand how weapon spawning will work outside of the infinity gametypes. Is it like gears of war, where weapons spawn in a set location but the weapon you get at the spawn changes? I still don't have a frickin clue and every time somebody from 343 tries to explain it, they don't do it completely. Pretty frustrating.

The only good things I got from the video is that the audio for the guns and grenades sound great and that the graphics are pretty damn good. Also the maps look pretty good, but I can't really say anything about that before I've played it.

 

[Risen]

Dudes, Promethean Vision.

Dudes.

The visual effect doesn't appear to inhibit the player whatsoever. Why wouldn't everyone just use this?

Exactly... it's not self balancing, and has no counter in that game play. For those calling it's use a crutch - that's just silly. Who wouldn't want to know exactly where people are AT ALL TIMES. At least with the motion sensor you have to look back and forth at it, and your point of aim - and if they aren't moving or are crouched, they're not on your sensor.

With PV - you see everything, always, and are not limited in any way.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

We have to rely on Twitter messages and gameplay of MLG pros to try to piece together Halo 4 multiplayer, while its developer's weekly updates are filled with grunt pictures and double-speak. It's one thing to remove Squad Slayer without explaining why -- (hell we still don't even know who is in charge of Reach playlists) -- because at least that isn't their game and they apparently have all hands on deck for this new project. It's another when people are still scrounging around for information and left with countless questions after E3 has finished.

The ball hasn't just been dropped, we don't even know what the hell the ball is.

To be fair, I'd have to guess Microsoft Marketing and PR is in charge of what content gets released when. I can't blame 343 for not spilling the beans when Microsoft is the true reason most likely.

Exactly... it's not self balancing, and has no counter in that game play. For those calling it's use a crutch - that's just silly. Who wouldn't want to know exactly where people are AT ALL TIMES. At least with the motion sensor you have to look back and forth at it, and your point of aim - and if they aren't moving or are crouched, they're not on your sensor.

With PV - you see everything, always, and are not limited in any way.

Keyword here is it has no counter "yet." In the commentary video (video 1) they ask if there's a way to counter or hide yourself from it and the 343 guy says "we can't talk about that yet." So there is a way, it just hasn't been shown yet.

 

[NullPointer]

- I think everyone is underestimating the Sticky Detonator.

My worries are more about what will happen once people get the hang of it really.

 

[The Librarian]

We have to rely on Twitter messages and gameplay of MLG pros to try to piece together Halo 4 multiplayer, while its developer's weekly updates are filled with grunt pictures and double-speak. It's one thing to remove Squad Slayer without explaining why -- (hell we still don't even know who is in charge of Reach playlists) -- because at least that isn't their game and they apparently have all hands on deck for this new project. It's another when people are still scrounging around for information and left with countless questions after E3 has finished.

The ball hasn't just been dropped, we don't even know what the hell the ball is.

Why does that need to be known?

 

[Franklinator]

Another little touch that's great is the music that comes on in the closing final minute. Adds some intensity!

Nades sound fierce.

I didn't even notice the music until I read this. I really like that addition. It's kinda like what Battlefield 3 did.

 

[Hydranockz]

To be fair, I'd have to guess Microsoft Marketing and PR is in charge of what content gets released when. I can't blame 343 for not spilling the beans when Microsoft is the true reason most likely.

What? Are you suggesting that when Frankie said MP would be explained better in the weeks after E3 that it was some kind of well thought-out marketing plan? The sort of plan where they drop a load of snippets at E3 and then follow up with more in-depth information in the weeks/MONTHS leading up to launch?

Nope. Don't buy it.

 

[Risen]

Keyword here is it has no counter "yet." In the commentary video (video 1) they ask if there's a way to counter or hide yourself from it and the 343 guy says "we can't talk about that yet." So there is a way, it just hasn't been shown yet.

Well of course... hence my "in that game play" atatement. I'm only talking about it as presented.

 

[OdysseusVA]

Developer commentaries
Bottom two may still be processing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8shCZb5zAW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YtO7JHK1iw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foorye27R4w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9MfwjKSwhw

 

[Roddslayer]

After watching both the BR and DMR in action, I think I'll be rolling with the DMR for the majority of the time.

 

[Bryant]

I like the idea of PV, but right now it appears to be too easy with very little downside. Yes, the geometry is not visible but this will not be an issue once the player has gotten used to playing on the maps.

One other issue I noticed is that the player can crouch and use PV while spotting those who are crouching. This takes away some of the stealth elements of gameplay and downplays the radar system. I feel like all of this can be fixed very easily with a few tweaks.

1: Make a player who uses PV appear on the radar while the ability is being used or when activated. The radar is less accurate then PV, so lets an observant player known they are being spotted without giving away the exactly location.

Now, radar is not in every game type, so solution 2 would be

2: Create a loader direction based audio effect to alert players of the general orientation of the player using PV.

Overall, this game looks fantastic and a blast to play. Few months before gold and I feel like with the feedback from the Beta and E3 we are going to get a very polished Wargame.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

What? Are you suggesting that when Frankie said MP would be explained better in the weeks after E3 that it was some kind of well thought-out marketing plan? The sort of plan where they drop a load of snippets at E3 and then follow up with more in-depth information in the weeks/MONTHS leading up to launch?

Nope. Don't buy it.

You broke my sarcasm meter!

 

[Silphonica]

From a competitive stand point there is a really simple solution there is two simple things that are needed.

Individual weapon damage modifiers. Bringing the BR/DMR up to the standard that is needed for competitive play, shouldn't make the snipers a one hit kill in the process.

Making armor abilities standard from the get go. Speed boost on constantly for the size of the maps seem reasonable.

Giving us that, will still allow default play to be a pick up and go game for new players.

Promethian vision, what if active camo removed you from that - a counter.

Everything else being hated on, like grenades not being picked up, or markers for everything is neither here nor there. Not really huge problems in that respect. Oh, and please rethink button layouts. Don't make me cry.

 

[squidhands]

PV is just as good as your radar.

On a really dark map like Adrift, it reminds me of how much more I used VISR compared to regular vision in the ODST hub world (way too much).

 

[Rickenslacker]

Frustrating is that twirly twitch they all have. So annoying.

You can't be MLG pro unless you do it. They'll make fun of you in the changing room if you don't.

 

[Garrett 2U]

From a competitive stand point there is a really simple solution there is two simple things that are needed.

Individual weapon damage modifiers. Bringing the BR/DMR up to the standard that is needed for competitive play, shouldn't make the snipers a one hit kill in the process.

Changing the game to that extent will isolate us the rest of the community.
Then we end up with a pseudo competitive game that nobody watches.

Making armor abilities standard from the get go. Speed boost on constantly for the size of the maps seem reasonable.

Base speed has always been modifiable.
EDIT: Oh I forgot reload speed + weapon switch speed! That would be sick

Promethian vision, what if active camo removed you from that - a counter.

Then we have everyone using active camo, even worse!

 

[TheOddOne]

Wierd that nobody was using the Thruster, Jetpack or even the Shield.

 

[Gui_PT]

You can't be MLG pro unless you do it. They'll make fun of you in the changing room if you don't.

I'd rather have them make fun of me than doing that :lol

 

[VivaciousJazzy]

You can't be MLG pro unless you do it. They'll make fun of you in the changing room if you don't.

Its just a nervous tick you develop. Helps keep your nerves under control in a tournament setting. There's other things people do too like crouch, melee or yy.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Carbine all the way!

 

[Steelyuhas]

The maps are HUGE, I seriously hope we say goodbye to 4v4 and move to 5v5 or even 6v6.

Yeah I pretty surprised at the size of the maps. We already know that 343 is going to do 5v5 for objective. If most of the "4v4/5v5" maps are that size in the game, then I say they should perhaps considering just making slayer 5v5 as well.

Probably an overreaction, but just a thought.

Why does that need to be known?

It doesn't, but the lack of communication/feedback is really frustrating. Jeremiah was always on the Bnet forums giving tidbits for what they were planning, and answering questions that people had out potential changes and their reasoning. It would be nice to get that from 343 as well.

Wierd that nobody was using the Thruster, Jetpack or even the Shield.

I saw the Thruster and Shield a couple of times. I don't think the Jetpack was in this build. Also saw the Hologram once.

 

[Silphonica]

Changing the game to that extent will isolate us the rest of the community.
Then we end up with a pseudo competitive game that nobody watches.


Base speed has always been modifiable.


Then we have everyone using active camo, even worse!

1) Not particularly, it's the same game only you move a little faster and some of your weapons deal damage more effectively. Halo 3 had the same modifications made to their gametypes. Base speed was increased and so was damage on weapons to account for the bad BR spread on that game. Nobody stopped watching then, in fact that's when Halo saw it's competitive player base spike to new levels.

2) Yeah, but without ice-skating and no reload changes, if you're going to change the pace of them game it should be everything.

3) Yeah, I guess, fuckity fuck.

 

[biosnake20]

Any gameplay of the longbow map and/or sniper?

 

[RebornYeti]

Might as well throw in my own positives and negatives.

Positives

- The sound is amazing. Very different from past Halo games, yet familiar in other aspects. Not a single dislike about the sound design so far.

- Carbine looks and sounds like it's a beast. Please don't nerf it!

- All around the weapons sound beefy, especially the grenades.

- Movement looks fluid. Strafe appears to be effective once again which is awesome.

- Maps look fun. Haven is so so beautiful to look at, and it looks like it's going to play very well. Adrift reminds me of a mix between Countdown and Condemned, and I view that as a good thing.

- Graphics are amazing. The improved shadows and lighting really add depth to everything. I especially like how the player model's shadow is cast onto the weapons. It runs pretty solid from the looks of it; no sign of frame rate dips near the Mech :lol

- Hit markers.

- I think Sprint is a very natural addition to the game and I'm glad to see it as a permanent ability.

- No sign of grenade spam which is always a plus. I love the new approach to how grenades are acquired.

- Looks like Halo.

- Music at the end is a perfect way to get some adrenaline pumping when a match is close. Loved that part.

- Scattershot looks fun as hell to use. I will never get tired of the transformation animations.

Negatives

- Rockets shoot so slow! Why?

- Promethean Vision is far more overpowered than I thought it would be. I imagined that you would only be able to see people within a 15 foot radius, but it's far more than that. In the Elamite footage on Adrift, he's able to spam PV, and to make it worse, it recharges very quickly. You should only be able to activate it once every 30 seconds, and it should only last like 5.

- Sticky Detonator. So far it looks like it's not very useful. Maybe it's because no one really knew how it worked, but even then I see it as a widely useless weapon. Bring back the Pro Pipe!

- Overshield. What was up with that guy being able to withstand tons of damage without the shield going down? I really hope that was just a bug.

- Personal Ordnance in general doesn't seem too appealing. If one team is owning and constantly getting ordnance drops, how is the losing team supposed to even have a chance against them?

- This isn't an issue with the game, but why no videos on Longbow? :lol

- Some aspects of the UI bother me. Medals look weird, and having the giant ordnance selection seems superfluous. Text in the middle of the screen is starting to get annoying as well.

- This is more of a nitpick than a negative, but the announcer sounds so weird. assASSinATION!

--------------

Overall, I'm super pumped about his game. The positives far out-weigh the negatives, but 343 seriously needs to consider adjusting some things. Regardless of what is changed, this game will be awesome and I can't wait to see more.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Any gameplay of the longbow map and/or sniper?

Unfortunately not.

 

[Gui_PT]

Hypertrooper. Are you interested in some H4 armor?

Yeah I am.

Sorry, I had to change my name to Gui_PT because it sounds way better than hypapoopah

PM me please

 

[xxjuicesxx]

I dont get why people say the nades sound good...they sound like metal blinds hitting the wall...its awful.

 

[kylej]

I dont get why people say the nades sound good...they sound like metal blinds hitting the wall...its awful.

you playing reach tonight. I feel like running slayer unlimited in Objective.

 

[Hypertrooper]

Hypertrooper. Are you interested in some H4 armor?

I am.

 

[Gui_PT]

Crap

 

[TheOddOne]

The Overshield thing was more bothersome then Promethean Vision, it's like turning on god mode for 20 seconds.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

you playing reach tonight. I feel like running slayer unlimited in Objective.

I don't have Xbox Live anymore. Plus I play good games now, games that run at proper framerates and dont have shitty MM options.


Whos the playlist manager for this next atrocity? Can I do it Stinkles?

 

[RebornYeti]

I'm under the impression that everything you do (not just kills) goes towards Personal Ordinance. At least thats what it seemed like.

Oh, I thought it was just kills. Still, I don't think it should be that easy to acquire personal ordnance.

 

[Garrett 2U]

"DISTRACTION!"

DISTRACTION

+10​

​

*distraction medal

Talk about a distraction!

I'm under the impression that everything you do (not just kills) goes towards Personal Ordinance. At least thats what it seemed like.

Yeah, it is your score.
Your medals give you score, a plain kills give you very limited points.
And it doesn't reset on death.

 

[FyreWulff]

If this was true you would never see title updates. I mean 343 took the time to release an update that improved Reach when it wasn't even their own game. Of course devs are never going to do every specific thing fans ask for because it's impossible to do everything everybody asks for, but to say they don't even listen is not true at all.

A title update that fixed zero bugs and introduced a new one. There were no objective improvements to Reach in the TU. None. All subjective. I'm not going to even bother to post the bug list anymore, because 1.2 is never happening. They were already looking forward to Halo 4 even as they pushed the TU out. I know they put work into the TU, but really, it was aimed at all the wrong bullet points and should be taken as a lesson learned on not how to execute a TU.

Dudes, Promethean Vision.

Dudes.

The visual effect doesn't appear to inhibit the player whatsoever. Why wouldn't everyone just use this?

We should play some Promethean Vision Slayer right now, and by that I mean let's get on Perfect Dark XBLA and give everyone X-Ray Glasses and Farsights.

Why does that need to be known?

It pretty much doesn't need to be. If you have a public figurehead people start doing creepy and weird shit.

 

[The Librarian]

It doesn't, but the lack of communication/feedback is really frustrating. Jeremiah was always on the Bnet forums giving tidbits for what they were planning, and answering questions that people had out potential changes and their reasoning. It would be nice to get that from 343 as well.

True, but 343 could definitely be picking up some of that slack through the bulletins. :/

 

[feel]

Watching the vids, this Prometheus Vision seems well on its way to join Armor Lock, Jetpack, Bloom and others on the "What the fuck were they thinking??" tier of terrible new ideas for Halo mp.

 

[Tha Robbertster]

"DISTRACTION!"

DISTRACTION

+10​

​

*distraction medal

Talk about a distraction!




Yeah, it is your score.
Your medals give you score, a plain kills give you very limited points.
And it doesn't reset on death.

People like it when people say they do well. Everybody is a winner!

 

[FL1Psyde]

Only two thoughts. Buff the BR, nerf Promethean vision.

^ this, was the only things I can see that need to be changed

 

[Plywood]

Seems like everyone is spamming Promethean Vision in these vids.

 

[789shadow]

Watching the vids, this Prometheus Vision seems well on its way to join Armor Lock, Jetpack, Bloom and others on the "What the fuck were they thinking??" tier of terrible new ideas for Halo mp.

Promethean Vision: a new project from the Halo Bad Ideas Team that brought you Halo Reach.

 

[TheOddOne]

Seems like everyone is spamming Promethean Vision in these vids.

No kidding.

 

[Hypertrooper]

Seems like everyone is spamming Promethean Vision in these vids.

Yes. Pretty boring. A clearly clue that Promethean Vision is overpowered.

 

[heckfu]

you playing reach tonight. I feel like running slayer unlimited in Objective.

there's always heckfu!


except tonight. and tomorrow. i'll be gone. so ALMOST always heckfu.