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[Steelyuhas]

There's a new grenade type.

Yeah I realized that you were referring to Spartan Ops when talking about the new grenade after I made that post, but I was too lazy to go change it lol.

Please 343, put out a vidoc like this, or perhaps this, describing the changes to MP and your thoughts behind them. Bungie was so great at putting out videos that actually explained their game (such as this), but there's a HUGE hole in the way information is communicated from 343. Fan reaction videos, sizzle reels, typically poor gaming journalism muddling messaging, and now liveblog updates from convention panels is sending tons of incomplete, out of context or poor communicated information to most of the fan base. Please, put something together about your MP along the lines of the vidocs above, they're not only sorely missed, but given the scope of the changes to MP, I think they're a critical tool for actually explaining this stuff in ways 343 has not done a great job of so far.

Agreed. We have been spoiled by how clearly and liberally Bungie delivered information about their games and it has been frustrating getting most of Halo 4's information through impressions about events, bad scans from magazines, bad journalism, leaked videos and screens from barns, and and general lots of misinformation.

So wait, do you always get a pistol when carrying a flag, or does the pistol have to be one of the weapons you're holding? Because if it just appears, there'd be no point to weighing taking two rifles when grabbing the flag would always give me a pistol.

I assume you just magically whip out a pistol when you grab the flag regardless of what weapons you are carrying. It would be really odd to require the player to carry a pistol in their back pocket in CTF games in order to be able to use one if they pick up the flag.

 

[User 73932]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[Tashi]

Are you and Omlet playing Halo in the hotel room like all sprawled out on the floor with toys everywhere arguing about who killed who first?

 

[Slightly Live]

Been railing on the lack of official video explaining things for a while now.

I have no idea why they holding back on officially explaining stuff. I'll wait until the dust settles as there's no way I'm website jumping trying to piece all this new stuff together or reading through 50 pages of HaloGAF spam.

 

[Kibbles]

I want to know this too. I also want to know if this shit is going to apply to every CTF game.

I'm still upset as hell about this. Even more than the lobby UI.

I was quite quite disgusted hearing people cheer after seeing the dual wield flag and pistol. Even if it was more-so for the assassination, I wouldn't be able to cheer after witnessing that dual wield bit.

 

[Vire]

Agreed. We have been spoiled by how clearly and liberally Bungie delivered information about their games and it has been frustrating getting most of Halo 4's information through impressions about events, bad scans from magazines, bad journalism, leaked videos and screens from barns, and and general lots of misinformation.

I understand 343's goal is to maintain some sort of air of secrecy when it comes out so that they can surprise people. But if they haven't learned by now, Halo fans don't like surprises - especially when it comes to multiplayer balances. People want to give their input and feel like they have a role in the creation of the game because that's who the game is for ultimately, the fans. I think you hit the nail on the head in your description of how we've received information, and as you said - it's been frustrating at best. Wading through 300 pages of HaloGAF looking for little nuggets is not exactly ideal.

If they want to keep the Campaign stuff under wraps for the remainder of the wait till launch, more power to them. In fact, I think that's great, let me have that magical feeling of rediscovering a whole new world. But I think it would be un-wise to not release at least a behind the scenes look at the multiplayer stuff that better explains the systems in place.

 

[daedalius]

I was quite quite disgusted hearing people cheer after seeing the dual wield flag and pistol. Even if it was more-so for the assassination, I wouldn't be able to cheer after witnessing that dual wield bit.

:|

Don't understand you guys at all.

 

[Plywood]

:|

Don't understand you guys at all.

Flag Pistol.

Griefing has evolved.

 

[Ryaaan14]

:|

Don't understand you guys at all.

You don't understand why people are upset over changing something that was perfect? I literally have NEVER heard a single person complain about the balance of flag carrying. If someone had a problem with not being able to kill someone while carrying the flag, just drop the flag to kill, or have support from your team. It seems like a really poor decision to allow to the flag carrier to sacrifice very little offensive power yet still carry the objective.

 

[Fracas]

So now you can throw the oddball.

Awesome for custom games, terrible for matchmaking.
Not sure how I feel overall. Objective specific assassinations are nice though.

But yeah, if you thought objective holding was bad before, it just got a lot worse.

 

[Plywood]

You don't understand why people are upset over changing something that was perfect? I literally have NEVER heard a single person complain about the balance of flag carrying. If someone had a problem with not being able to kill someone while carrying the flag, just drop the flag to kill, or have support from your team. It seems like a really poor decision to allow to the flag carrier to sacrifice very little offensive power yet still carry the objective.

It's okay cause they'll just nerf the pistol so that it takes 10 shots to kill.

 

[Ryaaan14]

It's okay cause they'll just nerf the pistol so that it takes 10 shots to kill.

Nerf a sandbox weapon because of a nonsensical objective mechanic. Yeah, probably will happen.

 

[Tawpgun]

It's okay cause they'll just nerf the pistol so that it takes 10 shots to kill.

10 shots to kill.

9 Bullets in Mag.

Balance.

But in all srs, I don't see this as a huge deal. Random weapon drops are still the biggest offender here for me, that and the whole loadout shenanigans.

RIP Halo Equality 2001-2010.

 

[Vire]

You don't understand why people are upset over changing something that was perfect? I literally have NEVER heard a single person complain about the balance of flag carrying. If someone had a problem with not being able to kill someone while carrying the flag, just drop the flag to kill, or have support from your team. It seems like a really poor decision to allow to the flag carrier to sacrifice very little offensive power yet still carry the objective.

"The problem" in 343's eyes is that no one cared about Objective because it's such a slow paced gametype. If you've looked as of late, the Objective playlist is one of the most consistently low population playlists in Halo 3 and Reach.

I'm assuming they said to themselves "How can we make this more accessible and speed things up?"

And between the Assassination additions and the Pistol - This was their approach. I'm not saying it's better or worse, just trying to rationalize the thought process.

Personally, as someone who isn't all that interested in the current incarnation of objective games like CTF, I welcome a change like this and I'm probably more likely to play it now. You have to remember that the Pistol as it stands in the MLG E3 videos is pretty weak and is mostly meant for close ranged combat in the Halo 4 sandbox. It's not this death-dealing sniper that you'll go on a killing spree with. So with that in mind, you'll still need protection and it's not going to alter the game that dramatically besides speed it up.

 

[Bregmann Roche]

You don't understand why people are upset over changing something that was perfect? I literally have NEVER heard a single person complain about the balance of flag carrying. If someone had a problem with not being able to kill someone while carrying the flag, just drop the flag to kill, or have support from your team. It seems like a really poor decision to allow to the flag carrier to sacrifice very little offensive power yet still carry the objective.

I don't like this change either, but the reason you aren't hearing complaints about flag carrying balance is the fact that most Halo players have given up on objective games. This is one of the ways that 343 is trying to make objective more appealing to the player.

From my limited experience I would argue that the low objective population is more of a result of poor playlist management and a practically non-existent reward system for objective games. So I can't help but think that this change will only hurt, but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Plywood]

--Please 343, put out a vidoc like this, or perhaps this, describing the changes to MP and your thoughts behind them. Bungie was so great at putting out videos that actually explained their game (such as this), but there's a HUGE hole in the way information is communicated from 343. Fan reaction videos, sizzle reels, typically poor gaming journalism muddling messaging, and now liveblog updates from convention panels is sending tons of incomplete, out of context or poor communicated information to most of the fan base. Please, put something together about your MP along the lines of the vidocs above, they're not only sorely missed, but given the scope of the changes to MP, I think they're a critical tool for actually explaining this stuff in ways 343 has not done a great job of so far.

Well it's simple because alot of the reasons behind why there have been tons of incomplete, out of context or poorly communicated information is because they will speak to us about those features at a later date. Until then you can have positive impressions from limited play from random people all across the Halo fanbase. Preferably with an older build and off cam video from a community event.

Don't worry though, trust us.™

 

[Fracas]

IMO the reason objective gametypes aren't popular is because they aren't slayer.

There's a reason deathmatch is the most popular gametype in any shooter. A LOT of people don't like to consider things like flag reset time, flag juggling, bomb arming time, etc.

They just want to kill things.

 

[Havok]

"The problem" in 343's eyes is that no one cared about Objective because it's such a slow paced gametype. If you've looked as of late, the Objective playlist is one of the most consistently low population playlists in Halo 3 and Reach.

I'm assuming they said to themselves "How can we make this more accessible and speed things up?"

This was their approach. I'm not saying it's better or worse, just trying to rationalize the thought process.

You're right about the perceived desire to speed things up, and in some cases, I think it can definitely lead to worse gameplay. Instant arms in Assault tried to do the same thing (I believe Jeremiah mentioned on bnet that he was trying to up the number of points earned in an average game of BTB Assault when he changed how it worked in Reach's Big Team) and people revolted against it because it was terrible. This isn't to say that it can't lead to good things, because I think it absolutely can...but pointing to specific examples of things like that that have worked in the series is a bit more difficult.

The addition of a ranged weapon to the flag carrier's arsenal is really just going further down the road that we started on by making objective items have a OHKO melee attack, was a change that I fundamentally disagreed with, and do to this day. I don't know that the pistol addition will be great, and I don't really agree with the philosophy behind it (personally, mobility would be the thing to get buffed if I were doing things), but this changes how CTF will be played to a pretty large degree, so I think it is one of those cases where I need to play it to judge it. I think adding it requires the way flag carriers move and melee to be drastically changed, but I don't think we'll get specifics on that for a while.

 

[Franklinator]

I don't like this change either, but the reason you aren't hearing complaints about flag carrying balance is the fact that most Halo players have given up on objective games. This is one of the ways that 343 is trying to make objective more appealing to the player.

From my limited experience I would argue that the low objective population is more of a result of poor playlist management and a practically non-existent reward system for objective games. So I can't help but think that this change will only hurt, but I hope I'm wrong.

Ha, I just noticed the -19 on your avatar.

 

[daedalius]

You don't understand why people are upset over changing something that was perfect? I literally have NEVER heard a single person complain about the balance of flag carrying. If someone had a problem with not being able to kill someone while carrying the flag, just drop the flag to kill, or have support from your team. It seems like a really poor decision to allow to the flag carrier to sacrifice very little offensive power yet still carry the objective.

Well, I'd rather have the flag on my back and have full access to weapons personally.

So no, I don't understand.

 

[Ryaaan14]

IMO the reason objective gametypes aren't popular is because they aren't slayer.

There's a reason deathmatch is the most popular gametype in any shooter. A LOT of people don't like to consider things like flag reset time, flag juggling, bomb arming time, etc.

They just want to kill things.

A truly fucking depressing reality.

Well, I'd rather have the flag on my back and have full access to weapons personally.

So no, I don't understand.

So you essentially want to make CTF into "Hey one guy touches their base, and runs back to his base while still having all his regular traits", and just throw out the whole idea of a coordinated effort with a team. Gotcha.

 

[Plywood]

"The problem" in 343's eyes is that no one cared about Objective because it's such a slow paced gametype. If you've looked as of late, the Objective playlist is one of the most consistently low population playlists in Halo 3 and Reach.

I'm assuming they said to themselves "How can we make this more accessible and speed things up?"

And between the Assassination additions and the Pistol - This was their approach. I'm not saying it's better or worse, just trying to rationalize the thought process.

Personally, as someone who isn't all that interested in the current incarnation of objective games like CTF, I welcome a change like this and I'm probably more likely to play it now. You have to remember that the Pistol as it stands in the MLG E3 videos is pretty weak and is mostly meant for close ranged combat in the Halo 4 sandbox. It's not this death-dealing sniper that you'll go on a killing spree with. So with that in mind, you'll still need protection and it's not going to alter the game that dramatically besides speed it up.

The reason why there is low population in Objective goes hand in hand with how the playlist has been handled and how little information is conveyed to the user both for pre-match gametype information and in game HUD elements. Don't even get me started on some of those dopey gametypes they had conjured up for Reach like Headhunter and Stockpile.

 

[Fracas]

A truly fucking depressing reality.

Yep.

These changes to CTF and Oddball really, really feel like sake for the sake of change IMO.

If it ain't broke...

 

[Rand0m TAG]

honestly, dont see a problem having a pistol with the flag. if everyone can sprint, might as well give the slow flag carrier something to defend himself with.

also, how the fuck did bungie overlook objective assassinations? instant returns and accidentally assassinating someone was the stupidest shit ever

 

[daedalius]

So you essentially want to make CTF into "Hey one guy touches their base, and runs back to his base while still having all his regular traits", and just throw out the whole idea of a coordinated effort with a team. Gotcha.

Never broke other games where you can use all your weapons and carry a flag.

Halo is special though, it has extra teamwork. None of those games had any teamwork, ever.

 

[Vire]

The only thing that concerns me about these changes is objective holding.

Some guy camping in the corner with a pistol and the flag isn't going to be fun.

But for the other reasons I mentioned above, I think it's a mostly positive change.

 

[Rand0m TAG]

The only thing that concerns me about these changes is objective holding.

Some guy camping in the corner with a pistol and the flag isn't going to be fun.

But for the other reasons I mentioned above, I think it's a mostly positive change.

from the look of the pistol, dont see that being much of a problem. 5 shot kill, 8 bullets (i think) and the ridiculous bloom on the pistol.

 

[Reagan's BR]

Hey guys did you know that Bungie made a map for Reach that was cut out of campaign so they decided to take elements of it and put it into forge which resulted in the cage.


They cut a map and replaced it with a forge map.

 

[Ryaaan14]

Never broke other games where you can use all your weapons and carry a flag.

Halo is special though, it has extra teamwork. None of those games had any teamwork, ever.

Your smartass remark is actually true. Not allowing the flag carrier to fire a weapon DOES require more teamwork.

 

[Computron]

Had to attend to guests, so i'm a little late, but hey, screw it.
You guys need to buy tripods, and stop recording on spoons.

 

[Bregmann Roche]

IMO the reason objective gametypes aren't popular is because they aren't slayer.

The problem with objective games isn't that they aren't as popular as slayer: they've never been as popular as slayer. The problem that 343 is trying to address is that objective games continue to get less and less popular.

Yep.

These changes to CTF and Oddball really, really feel like sake for the sake of change IMO.

If it ain't broke...

I doubt that these changes will make objective games better and/or more popular, but I don't think it's fair to say that 343 is trying to fix something that isn't broken. It's certainly accurate to say that they are trying to fix something the wrong way.

If objective games celebrated and rewarded individual accomplishments more (via medals, cR, typical Reach-style cheering-on the player) I think more people would play them. As it is, entering an objective playlist by yourself is a thankless exercise in futility. Giving the flag carrier a gun probably isn't the solution, but 343 is trying to address the problem.

Ha, I just noticed the -19 on your avatar.

Someday I hope that I can achieve redemption in the eyes of my fellow Monster Balls.

 

[User 73932]

You guys will be getting something awesome on July 27th iirc.

 

[Fracas]

You guys will be getting something awesome on July 27th iirc.

Beta, right? Halo: Reach had one.

 

[Bregmann Roche]

You guys will be getting something awesome on July 27th iirc.

Girl T-shirts for EVERYONE???!!!!!???

Edit: Watching the Fiction panel now and I have to agree with whoever said it earlier--Greg Bear is missed.

 

[OverHeat]

You guys will be getting something awesome on July 27th iirc.

Ok but what about you? You get nothing?

 

[wwm0nkey]

You guys will be getting something awesome on July 27th iirc.

I thought they said it was the 20th?

 

[User 73932]

I thought they said it was the 20th?

Or this

 

[Fracas]

I'm guessing you're not allowed to tell us? Aww

 

[wwm0nkey]

Finished reading Primordium again......I was pretty disappointed at the lack of greg bear on the Fiction Panel.

Same!

Also I am pretty sure Un-Didact means Unbound Didact for Silentium. Kind of put that together after remebering Frankie told me to put my Avatar into an unbound state.

What unbounding means/does I still have no clue but I think its evident we are going against the Un-Didact.

Btw everyone at 343 said the enemy reveal is bad ass.

 

[Plywood]

Beta, right? Halo: Reach had one.

Reach is the beta.

 

[Tunavi]

You guys will be getting something awesome on July 27th iirc.

 

[Ryaaan14]

I still believe in a Beta.

 

[Zoso Achilles]

Never broke other games where you can use all your weapons and carry a flag.

Halo is special though, it has extra teamwork. None of those games had any teamwork, ever.

Yeah, the reason it works in games like CoD is because you can kill the flag carrier with like two bullets. Oh there he is *dead*

What's balanced in other games doesn't mean it works for halo. You want access to all your abilities and weapons while running the flag? Play speedflag in reach, it's a revolutionary change to flag and is super popular. It did such a great job of making people care about the objective. Yep.

 

[Fracas]

I still believe in a Beta.

I'd say there's about a

Spoiler

.00000000

50% chance.

 

[Vire]

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the Making Of trailer that's premiering in Theaters.

 

[User 73932]

Speaking of Mr. Bear, he seemed to be talking about something regarding Siletium's cover art that would have some big revelations about the universe. Though, the conversation is a bit fuzzy now.

I still believe in a Beta.

Wouldn't that be something. Too bad it ain't happening. It's not necessarily something huge, but you'll be treated to some very nice things.

It alleviated my concern about the music, but that wasn't the main focus of what was presented to us.

 

[Franklinator]

I've had a Halo 4 beta for a few weeks, I'm not sure why you guys keep talking about it. Figured you all would've received your codes by now.

 

[Ryaaan14]

I'd say there's about a

Spoiler

.00000000

50% chance.

Let me rephrase.

I still believe in a "multiplayer demo".

 

[Fracas]

I've had a Halo 4 beta for a few weeks, I'm not sure why you guys keep talking about it. Figured you all would've received your codes by now.

Halo 4 is old news

Halo 5: Revengeance by 314 Industries is the new hotness.

Let me rephrase.

I still believe in a "multiplayer demo".

Boners would be achieved if a split screen/LAN only multiplayer portion was released. That's even less likely than a beta though

 

[wwm0nkey]

Random question but when do you guys think they will officially reveal the groups feature and what are you guys hoping it will be?

(Groups is a confirmed feature via the ExpertZone quiz but all it lists is the ability to find, create and organize groups)