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[Wandering Leopard]

I think they took it to heart when the majority criticised how infinite looked when it was first shown, but you have to question whether the graphics or engine were the real issue...

 

[Alebrije]

Hummm....it's te same people with a new toy ( engine)...don't expect something great, Also we live on a generic shooter loop , all shooters feel the same.

 

[Ribi]

I get the concern. But maybe using a third party engine means they can focus less on an engine only they know how it works, and focus more on the gameplay loop. With a third party engine, I imagine you can outsource some work a little easier. Then again, I have no idea what I’m talking about.

no, no it just means their old engine wasn't built with PS5 Pro in mind.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Hummm....it's te same people with a new toy ( engine)...don't expect something great, Also we live on a generic shooter loop , all shooters feel the same.

They don't.

 

[proandrad]

Some mental gymnastics there. The story is a direct sequel to 5 and got released after 5. I don't know what more to say.

Are you telling me Metal Gear Solid 5 isn't 5 because its open world?


It is the sixth mainline installment in the Halo series, following Halo 5: Guardians (2015). The game's campaign follows the human supersoldier Master Chief and his fight against a mercenary organization, known as the Banished, on the Forerunner ringworld Zeta Halo.

MGS 5 was called MGS 5 by the creator and that supersedes everything else. And it’s not mental gymnastics, you just tried to throw a gotcha and lost. Unless the team creators call the game Halo 6, it is not Halo 6.

 

[Lillie]

I get the concern. But maybe using a third party engine means they can focus less on an engine only they know how it works, and focus more on the gameplay loop. With a third party engine, I imagine you can outsource some work a little easier. Then again, I have no idea what I’m talking about.

yea but they were adament that the 'modern' halo of 5 and infinite were the halo styles they want to go forward with yet the classic halo fans for the most part dislike it (and its track record explains itself)

 

[FoxMcChief]

no, no it just means their old engine wasn't built with PS5 Pro in mind.

Could be that as well. I just want more Halo.

I can’t lose both Killzone and Halo. Fuck this industry if both die.

 

[clarky]

MGS 5 was called MGS 5 by the creator and that supersedes everything else. And it’s not mental gymnastics, you just tried to throw a gotcha and lost. Unless the team creators call the game Halo 6, it is not Halo 6.

Ok mate. I could name loads of sequels that dont have numbers in them but whatever. You keep waiting for Halo 6.

 

[FoxMcChief]

MGS 5 was called MGS 5 by the creator and that supersedes everything else. And it’s not mental gymnastics, you just tried to throw a gotcha and lost. Unless the team creators call the game Halo 6, it is not Halo 6.

It was called MGSV.

Venom Snake

 

[ResilientBanana]

I think they took it to heart when the majority criticised how infinite looked when it was first shown, but you have to question whether the graphics or engine were the real issue...

I'm pretty sure the scope and scale affected the graphics in the long run, not to mention it was still on the blam! engine throughout. One of the biggest criticisms have been the graphics, second to the story. It started out as a showcase for Xbox, and ended up being subpar with each new iteration. Quite frankly. Halo 2 Anniversary is the best Halo has ever looked.

 

[proandrad]

It was called MGSV.

Venom Snake

 

[clarky]

Microsoft Confirms That Yes, 'Halo: Infinite' Is Actually Just 'Halo 6'

The next Halo game, Halo: Infinite, is a true sequel, not anything too out of the ordinary, it seems.

www.forbes.com

"Perhaps to avoid Fallout 76-like confusion about what exactly its upcoming game is, Microsoft is now confirming what many people suspected, but wasn’t spelled out because of an odd naming choice: Halo: Infinite is Halo 6."

"It is Halo 6," said 343’s Jeff Easterling during a Mixer stream (via GameSpot). "You should just consider it Halo 6. Don't think of it as a weird prequel kind of thing. It's the next story. It's the next chapter in what is going on."

 

[MH3M3D]

Well observed, but that's relevant how?


And referred to as the Dark Ages.

30 FPS for a shooter in 2024 would be criminal. And DOA.

Halo's graphics arent the problem. Its the lack of knowing how to make a fun and unique videogame. Theres nothing to get excited for. If this game wasnt called Halo, it would've done even worse.

 

[GoldenEye98]

They need to spin off like ODST or a flood horror game. Remake CE for a new audience and go from there.

Halo as it exists today is done for. I like it but im' 50 years old. The slow floaty gameplay with massive TTK has no place with kids of today.

Not saying it would be a bad game but there is a risk this would feel too much like Doom imo...

Though maybe the best version of Halo these days would just be Doom's fast floaty movement but with aliens?

 

[Mephisto40]

So it's going to run like ass on the Series S then

 

[Pedro Motta]

#stutterstruggle

 

[clarky]

Not saying it would be a bad game but there is a risk this would feel too much like Doom imo...

Though maybe the best version of Halo these days would just be Doom's fast floaty movement but with aliens?

Where you getting Doom from? A horror flood game could still be slowish, but with no covenant shields or master chief you could lower the TTK, Up the speed a tad, drop the floaty jumps. Free from the shackles of what the community think Halo should be like, they could make something new and fresh, god knows the series needs something at this point. Maybe even make it 3rd person.

 

[SHA]

I'd like something like Infinite but with proper missions built into the map that you start like in Destiny. I think they where onto something with Infinite but ultimately fell short. I'd like that idea expanded upon.

Cyberpunk 2077 downside is the characters felt to shallow, design wise, and disconnected from the world's complex design, we hadn't encountered this issue before.

 

[clarky]

Cyberpunk 2077 downside is the characters felt to shallow, design wise, and disconnected from the world's complex design, we hadn't encountered this issue before.

You quoting the right person there champ?

 

[Dutchy]

That was when the teams where a lot smaller and they didn't have a revolving door of contractors.

My point exactly

Even bungie struggled with the same engine. Destiny 1 was notoriously difficult to work on.

Moving to UE should alleviate some of the issues. Whether or not it still feels like Halo is another matter.

Actually, the D2 (Tiger) engine is as much of an overhaul to the BLAM engine as Slipspace was.

Source


Bottom line is: Halo is destined to fail over and over because the current developpers never understood what made it great in the first place. This is why the older games have better player retention even now. And no engine will fix that. Especially not UE.

 

[SHA]

You quoting the right person there champ?

Just saying, I'm afraid future games issues will be the same as cyberpunk.

 

[clarky]

My point exactly



Actually, the D2 (Tiger) engine is as much of an overhaul to the BLAM engine as Slipspace was.

Source


Bottom line is: Halo is destined to fail over and over because the current developpers never understood what made it great in the first place. This is why the older games have better player retention even now. And no engine will fix that. Especially not UE.

I liked Infinite, Another year -18 months in the oven and that game could have been something stellar. I'm positive Staten chucked together what he could in that last year and then tossed it out of the door. The bones where there.

Shame really, modern Xbox to a T.

 

[clarky]

Just saying, I'm afraid future games issues will be the same as cyberpunk.

Cyberpunk isn't on UE5 though? Not sure how it relates to this game mate

 

[Flintty]

The move to UE is huge but they need to get the design philosophy right, so I'm not gonna get too excited just yet. The talk about culture change at the studio is good, but I'll wait and see. The test stuff looked superb.

 

[Dutchy]

I liked Infinite, Another year -18 months in the oven and that game could have been something stellar. I'm positive Staten chucked together what he could in that last year and then tossed it out of the door. The bones where there.

Shame really, modern Xbox to a T.

Halo Infinite is fine for solo players who like fairly generic shooters, imo. It's got an incredibly ''safe'' design with practically no sandbox/explosive physics and death barriers everywhere. When I think about Halo 2 and Halo 3 I think ''Fucking around with other people'' - When I think about Halo Infinite nothing more than ''shoot gun'' comes to mind lol. roughly 200 hours on that game made for exactly 0 memorable moments.

My buddy Remy recently made a very good video about this with actual gameplay from me and friends:

 

[clarky]

Halo Infinite is fine for solo players who like fairly generic shooters, imo. It's got an incredibly ''safe'' design with practically no sandbox/explosive physics and death barriers everywhere. When I think about Halo 2 and Halo 3 I think ''Fucking around with other people'' - When I think about Halo Infinite nothing more than ''shoot gun'' comes to mind lol. roughly 200 hours on that game made for exactly 0 memorable moments.

My buddy Remy recently made a very good video about this with actual gameplay from me and friends:

Yeah like i said it needed another 18 months.

Proper set pieces, more biomes(hate that word lol) more stuff to do. Launching without co-op was a travesty also.

I used to watch mints stuff btw, good content.

 

[diffusionx]

Bottom line is: Halo is destined to fail over and over because the current developpers never understood what made it great in the first place. This is why the older games have better player retention even now. And no engine will fix that. Especially not UE.

Correct. It's easy to blame the tech but that's the least of the problems with a studio that totally botched this series for a decade.

People vastly overstate the importance of engines. You can't switch engines and people become magically more competent. Switching technology might alleviate issues with the technology but incompetent people will find and make new issues. If MS could deliver a Halo 3 tier experience they would have. I'm actually not sure if anyone could deliver a total package like that these days, any company.

 

[Dutchy]

Yeah like i said it needed another 18 months.

I was vouching for a delay from the very start so I agree but it took forgers 24 months to get physics on a box so something tells me it was either not in 343i's interest to implement such a thing or they simply couldn't/didn't know how to.

If a different engine could solve that, I'm all for it. But I still fear the fact that they simply have no idea what made the older games so great so it's gonna be another case of throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks while pretending the bungie games never existed.

 

[proandrad]

Microsoft Confirms That Yes, 'Halo: Infinite' Is Actually Just 'Halo 6'

The next Halo game, Halo: Infinite, is a true sequel, not anything too out of the ordinary, it seems.

www.forbes.com

"Perhaps to avoid Fallout 76-like confusion about what exactly its upcoming game is, Microsoft is now confirming what many people suspected, but wasn’t spelled out because of an odd naming choice: Halo: Infinite is Halo 6."

"It is Halo 6," said 343’s Jeff Easterling during a Mixer stream (via GameSpot). "You should just consider it Halo 6. Don't think of it as a weird prequel kind of thing. It's the next story. It's the next chapter in what is going on."

My victory being striped away.

 

[FireFly]

Bottom line is: Halo is destined to fail over and over because the current developpers never understood what made it great in the first place. This is why the older games have better player retention even now. And no engine will fix that. Especially not UE.

Two thirds of Infinite's campaign was scrapped and the multiplayer side was effectively frozen for over a year while they worked through their tech debt. There were a huge number of features left on the chopping board like other biomes, side quests, a proper home base (UNSC Infinity) and competing factions with networks of bases.

Maybe a game with all these features still wouldn't be "Halo" to you, but it could have been a much better product overall.

 

[clarky]

I was vouching for a delay from the very start so I agree but it took forgers 24 months to get physics on a box so something tells me it was either not in 343i's interest to implement such a thing or they simply couldn't/didn't know how to.

If a different engine could solve that, I'm all for it. But I still fear the fact that they simply have no idea what made the older games so great so it's gonna be another case of throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks while pretending the bungie games never existed.

I said it earlier in the thread.

Just make 8-10 great Halo levels.

Tanks, Snow, 3 way battles, grand set pieces, scarabs, beach assaults etc etc. Great AI and Physics. Co-op. Covenant, Monkeys and the Flood.

No need to reinvent the wheel, start with that.

We all know what works except 343i.

 

[Raven117]

K

 

[diffusionx]

I said it earlier in the thread.

Just make 8-10 great Halo levels.

Tanks, Snow, 3 way battles, grand set pieces, scarabs, beach assaults etc etc. Great AI and Physics. Co-op. Covenant, Monkeys and the Flood.

No need to reinvent the wheel, start with that.

We all know what works except 343i.

Halo 4 and 5 were their attempts to make traditional Halo games. We all know how that went. And I kind of liked Halo 4.

Now maybe they are way better today than they were back then. But at least when they made Halo 4, they had institutional knowledge from Bungie. Even that is gone. So I doubt it.

 

[clarky]

Halo 4 and 5 were their attempts to make traditional Halo games. We all know how that went. And I kind of liked Halo 4.

Now maybe they are way better today than they were back then. But at least when they made Halo 4, they had institutional knowledge from Bungie. Even that is gone. So I doubt it.

I hated 4 and 5. Well i liked the multiplayer in 5 (shoot me). I thought ironically Infinite was the best thing they have done, and still fell well short in a number of key areas.

This Pierre dude seems alot more on his game than Bonnie. So im willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. For now.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Taking a wait and see approach personally, wasn’t impressed with Infinite and of course Mr Leader himself green lit that infamous initial reveal.

I wonder if third person being added to Infinite will have any influence with future games.

 

[metareferential]

>Spend years developing a new engine
>Say it has a 10-year plan and will be used for the franchise moving forward
>First game using it looks bad and flops
>Change to UE5, a notoriously heavy engine

Yep. Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. What kind of publisher uses UE for their flagship games?

Ms management doesn't understand Halo, not one bit.

This is basically more outsourcing.

The good thing is UE5 is going to be infinitely (see that?) better than what they have in-house.

And if they just focus on remaking the Bungie Halos, even better.

God it sucks to be old.

 

[Radical_3d]

What the hell? It's absolutely part of Halo's identity to look well and run smoothly.

The best Halos I’ve ever played are all 30fps.

 

[clarky]

The best Halos I’ve ever played are all 30fps.

You should try playing them at 60, they are even better.

 

[Klosshufvud]

The best Halos I’ve ever played are all 30fps.

For the era they were released in, when console fps games were 20-30 fps, they were considered really smooth.

 

[Shin-Ra]

I wouldn’t have shown a bunch of dioramas running on undisclosed hardware.

First I’d concentrate on one level, rebuilding enough classic human/alien weapons, vehicles and characters to show we know how to bring the classic 2 and 3-way battle interplay to the new engine, and it looks great playing realtime on Xbox.

What they’ve shown is an UE5 tech demo without any real constraints.

 

[Radical_3d]

You should try playing them at 60, they are even better.

I did. And 4K HDR. They are awesome. But it’s not mandatory for a good game neither make for a good game: like in Infinity.

For the era they were released in, when console fps games were 20-30 fps, they were considered really smooth.

 

[finalflame]

There's a future for Halo?

 

[LordOfChaos]

It's crazy that they spent 6 years between games in large part building the Slipstream engine, only to use it for one entry with apparently zero single player DLC (which was promised as a 10 year game at that) and then moving on.

I hope the mismanagement of Halo is over, but it's been abused so long... After dumping the last games lore (again), the end of Infinite was potentially looping into some interesting stuff, I hope they don't just end it in a comic or off screen again and start something new yet again. The Endless seem to be a way to make everything come up Precursor, as it was always meant to.

 

[Brucey]

You know what... I'm excited for this.

Didn't they say during Halo 5 that the biggest issue they faced when it came to fixing bugs was that the game was pretty much hard coded because of the engine?

For example, the Halo Pros wanted grenade hitmarkers gone but 343i came out and said it wasn't possible as it was too deeply coded into the game.

Then when it came to making content, the engine was very limiting in that regard as it was still technically the BLAM engine, just modified over and over and over again. So there were too many layers of the engine.

Only so long you can polish a turd.

 

[midnightAI]

I can’t lose both Killzone and Halo. Fuck this industry if both die.

I have a feeling this one is not lost yet (Nixxes remastering Guerilla titles using Decima just feels so right for a remaster/remake to kick start it again)

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Sweet Baby Boone

Melissa Boone at Microsoft Research

Melissa joined Xbox Research in the summer of 2015. After earning her BA in psychology from Spelman College in 2008, Melissa went on to complete her PhD in social psychology and public health from Columbia University. Her research in public health focused on how people's social interactions...

www.microsoft.com

About​

Melissa joined Xbox Research in the summer of 2015. After earning her BA in psychology from Spelman College in 2008, Melissa went on to complete her PhD in social psychology and public health from Columbia University. Her research in public health focused on how people’s social interactions influenced their risk for HIV and substance abuse – particularly with African Americans and Latinx folks, LGBTQ+ people, and women – but also how these people’s personal resilience could be developed and supported to help them avoid poor health outcomes.

Melissa did a stint conducting market research in video games – which was so much fun it inspired her to make the leap to the games world. Currently, Melissa manages research across several Xbox franchises and experiences, including Ninja Theory, Compulsion Games, Double Fine Studios, and the Xbox Store. She also leads research in diversity, inclusion, and accessibility across Xbox’s games and experiences, with a focus on making Xbox a place where everyone has fun!

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Sweet Baby Boone

Melissa Boone at Microsoft Research

Melissa joined Xbox Research in the summer of 2015. After earning her BA in psychology from Spelman College in 2008, Melissa went on to complete her PhD in social psychology and public health from Columbia University. Her research in public health focused on how people's social interactions...

www.microsoft.com

As I have mentioned before Xbox promotes and hires (used to at one point anyhow) on a point system and certain sets of people could score points before ever walking into the interview based on race, gender and sexual orientation

Straight white men could not score these points so started at a disadvantage before ever walking into the interview

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

As I have mentioned before Xbox promotes and hires (used to at one point anyhow) on a point system and certain sets of people could score points before ever walking into the interview based on race, gender and sexual orientation

Straight white men could not score these points so started at a disadvantage before ever walking into the interview

Disgusting practice

Imagine being a white male computer science genius, having to work far more grueling and demanding roles that are integral to the product, only for this abomination to make more than you with a BS in basket weaving and feelings

 

[digoutyoursoul]

As I have mentioned before Xbox promotes and hires (used to at one point anyhow) on a point system and certain sets of people could score points before ever walking into the interview based on race, gender and sexual orientation

Straight white men could not score these points so started at a disadvantage before ever walking into the interview

The fuck are they doing over there? Making video games or playing Scrabble ?

 

[coachmcguirk91]

My point exactly



Actually, the D2 (Tiger) engine is as much of an overhaul to the BLAM engine as Slipspace was.

Source


Bottom line is: Halo is destined to fail over and over because the current developpers never understood what made it great in the first place. This is why the older games have better player retention even now. And no engine will fix that. Especially not UE.

The Xbox gamers are just as much to blame as 343, imo. There would be a massive revolt within the Xbox community if there are big changes to Halo multi-player. The truth is, arena shooters with little variety in gameplay is a dead genre. But Microsoft is scared of fracturing the fanbase by allowing creativity beyond traditional Halo PvP