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[Demoncarnotaur]

6 weeks.

 

[TheOddOne]

Yes, no, yes, yes.

Good luck to you guys doing the last stretch.

 

[lybertyboy]

Something that was rolling around my head in Japan:
Say week 1 Spartan Ops is found (statistically at 343i) to be too easy, say for 4 players on Legendary, beating it in record time/breaking the intended challenge (and therefore, to a certain extent, the quality). How set is the pipeline for the rest of the season? i.e. by which episode/mission can they/ye realistically integrate a fix/change?

I don't want to go into too much detail here, but we have capabilities to make certain changes very rapidly to react to that sort of situation.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I don't want to go into too much detail here, but we have capabilities to make certain changes very rapidly to react to that sort of situation.

*nods* But what's the mandatory level of testing for changes like that?
Treat it as rhetorical if you can't answer. I love pondering about this kind of.. process stuff.

 

[kylej]

Something that was rolling around my head in Japan:
Say week 1 Spartan Ops is found (statistically at 343i) to be too easy, say for 4 players on Legendary, beating it in record time/breaking the intended challenge (and therefore, to a certain extent, the quality). How set is the pipeline for the rest of the season? i.e. by which episode/mission can they/ye realistically integrate a fix/change?

Isn't Spartan Ops essentially Firefight? I imagine they can push extra/different enemies into the encounters based on general completion time and other metrics. Increase the amount of hammer monkeys in this section from 4 to 10, increase grunts from 8 to 16 at this point, etc.

 

[789shadow]

karl, if you can get 3 of your team on tonight, we can do 3v3 for our tourney match.

 

[Blue Ninja]

So, I just saw The Dark Knight Rises.

Also, Reach sucks.

6 weeks.

There's a reason that 1998 Godzilla flick didn't work out.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Isn't Spartan Ops essentially Firefight? I imagine they can push extra/different enemies into the encounters based on general completion time and other metrics. Increase the amount of hammer monkeys in this section from 4 to 10, increase grunts from 8 to 16 at this point, etc.

My point was not about what specific changes are open to them, but how pre-baked/concrete the missions are in advance, and what's the amount of time a change needs to be developed, tested, approved and pushed out (all while working on the rest of the season 1/future content).

So, I just saw The Dark Knight Rises.

Yeah, awkward Shepard dance about sums it up.

 

[Overdoziz]

Sustain and maintainance are absolutely a hugely important part of our plans for Halo 4. I realize that may not map to some folks' experience with Reach, but we have to put our resources and people in the right place for the long-term, and it will ultimately provide significant benefits. It will be a reset of sorts, with a different team and different philosophy.

I don't think many people complained about the amount of updates (or the amount of changes in these updates), but the rather the updates them selves. Of course there's only a limited amount of resources for making updates to Reach matchmaking, that's fine, I don't have a big problem with that. I do have a problem with the decisions that whoever is in control of the MM updates has made. It doesn't exactly make me hopeful for Halo 4.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

I don't want to go into too much detail here, but we have capabilities to make certain changes very rapidly to react to that sort of situation.

Interesting, so in theory there is a chance for something like 'Spartan Ops NEP'?

 

[FyreWulff]

Sustain and maintainance are absolutely a hugely important part of our plans for Halo 4. I realize that may not map to some folks' experience with Reach, but we have to put our resources and people in the right place for the long-term, and it will ultimately provide significant benefits. It will be a reset of sorts, with a different team and different philosophy.

We have six or so weeks until Halo 4 is (almost) done. It's all hands on deck, period.

Did you guys absorb the team that the CCs answer to as part of this?

I think I might cancel my preorder of the Limited Edition if I get the console. :/ Hm.

Get both, sell the 4 that comes with the console?

 

[willow ve]

Yes, no, yes, yes.

This was honestly more information provided than in the Bulletin. :lol

I don't want to go into too much detail here, but we have capabilities to make certain changes very rapidly to react to that sort of situation.

Add those together and you have more than a full month of Bulletins. I knew there was a reason I joined HaloGAF.

 

[Hydranockz]

Something that was rolling around my head in Japan:
Say week 1 Spartan Ops is found (statistically at 343i) to be too easy, say for 4 players on Legendary, beating it in record time/breaking the intended challenge (and therefore, to a certain extent, the quality). How set is the pipeline for the rest of the season? i.e. by which episode/mission can they/ye realistically integrate a fix/change?

That's the thing. How can the game adapt? It's hard not to think back to those J.J. lectures about this kind of thing. I think Mass Effect 3's multpleyer is the closest current gen game we can compare SpOps to. Bioware have been able to tweak most of the gameplay elements. Not only the damage done to/by enemies but in some cases, they've tweaked the ability for the bigger enemies to take headshot damage and whatnot.

Certainly my initial perception of ME3 was that with 3 maps, the multiplayer was screwed. They've been able to add in new guns, new playable characters and new maps without the need for a TU.

I honestly hope 343 can surprise me in the same way...

 

[Tawpgun]

I dunno, Valve games are pretty good.

They are pretty good. But not perfect.

In Counterstrike, a lot of people complain about the AWP.
TF2 has had tons of balancing patches. I don't know how the game looks like now.
Half Life 2 was amazing... its only flaw was pacing in some areas. Such as driving and boat levels.

Frankie has a point that they can't always test everything, a million users will find a way to abuse something a couple hundred testers and thousands of internal beta users won't.

But people do bring up good points about things that were OBVIOUSLY broken like the Zealot space section. That was apparent Day 1 from playing ONE game. Anyone who knew the way the map was made knew this. My friend played it early and he immediately realized it.

Armor Lock is another one of these things. Same thing with Dropshield in objective.

I look at these things and I imagine a designer going, "LOL YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE SUPER EPIC UBER COOL..." Instead of "You know what would be fun and balanced?"

Isn't Spartan Ops essentially Firefight? I imagine they can push extra/different enemies into the encounters based on general completion time and other metrics. Increase the amount of hammer monkeys in this section from 4 to 10, increase grunts from 8 to 16 at this point, etc.

We don't know how much variety we're going to be getting. But the one SpOps mission they did show was essentially like 4 players playing a snippet of campaign. I hope there'll be some cool variety like campaign like missions where you just fight through a level, completing mini objectives. Then something like a firefight holdout mission. Then maybe a timed gauntlet run Maw Homage. Stealth mission. etc. CoD Spec Ops was pretty good with this.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

I really want to get into test and design.

 

[Hydranockz]

Jurkun McGurkun :lol

 

[FyreWulff]

But people do bring up good points about things that were OBVIOUSLY broken like the Zealot space section. That was apparent Day 1 from playing ONE game. Anyone who knew the way the map was made knew this. My friend played it early and he immediately realized it.

Heh. I remember finding out the Needle Rifle was utterly broken within the first 5 minutes of using it at Halofest. Then at the TU panel they said it was a bad idea to keep it like that.

Then.. they kept it like that.

*shrug*

 

[kittens]

Add those together and you have more than a full month of Bulletins. I knew there was a reason I joined HaloGAF.

Yeah. :-|

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Why can't we get a true single player trailer..or at least an extended cut of that one?

No thanks, if I could go dark on SP & SPO I would.

But there will be plenty more in the September/October lead up. May even get one from PAX/Gamescom.

 

[Bregmann Roche]

Classy.

Someone had to pick up Overkill's crown. When you play the Game of Juniors you live or you banned.

<snip>
The system today produces things that are inoffensive. It excels at that.

Your quality post has revealed that you don't understand how the Game of Juniors is played. I agree that presenting "polish" is probably more important to console devs than it should be, but in the case of Reach's MP maps I think the flaws are more a result of "would-it-be-cool-itis".

Like "wouldn't it be cool if we had a map that let you spacewalk outside a covenant ship" (Zealot), or "wouldn't it be cool if we showcased the vertical combat that the jetpack introduces to the series" (Sword Base). For the creators those "cool" elements are so integral to the DNA of the map when it is conceived that the devs can't see the problems or can't bring themselves to make the necessary changes when they do.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I don't want to go into too much detail here, but we have capabilities to make certain changes very rapidly to react to that sort of situation.

Speaking of details you can't go into. One of the big itches that Firefight scratches can be summed up in three words: Last Man Standing. High stakes, do or die, survival mode.

I know Spartan Ops is not Firefight. But can you say if it will scratch that particular itch in some way?

 

[Beckx]

I look at these things and I imagine a designer going, "LOL YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE SUPER EPIC UBER COOL..." Instead of "You know what would be fun and balanced?"

See, I think what happens is designers don't get to say "YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE SUPER EPIC UBER COOL" enough anymore. That mindset produces great things and it produces crappy things. I'm pretty sure the id and Epic guys started out out with that mindset.

No one sets out to make bad games. The same process that made Armor Lock made Master Chief..."wouldn't it be cool if the player could take over this space marine and fight the aliens from his perspective."

I agree that presenting "polish" is probably more important to console devs than it should be, but in the case of Reach's MP maps I think the flaws are more a result of "would-it-be-cool-itis".

Like "wouldn't it be cool if we had a map that let you spacewalk outside a covenant ship" (Zealot), or "wouldn't it be cool if we showcased the vertical combat that the jetpack introduces to the series" (Sword Base). For the creators those "cool" elements are so integral to the DNA of the map when it is conceived that the devs can't see the problems or can't bring themselves to make the necessary changes when they do.

Just saw this, I don't necessarily disagree, I just think that ("would it be cool") is critical to making things that don't suck. Sometimes you get good stuff, sometimes you get Armor Lock.

 

[Overdoziz]

Heh. I remember finding out the Needle Rifle was utterly broken within the first 5 minutes of using it at Halofest. Then at the TU panel they said it was a bad idea to keep it like that.

Then.. they kept it like that.

*shrug*

How is it broken? It may be a bit stronger than the DMR (although every time I pick it up it doesn't exactly feel that way) but it's not like you can spawn with it. There's only a few of them on a map at the most and clearly hardly anyone think it's worth picking up so I don't think there's a problem. People don't sprint towards the Needle Rifle spawn right at the start or anything.

It may be broken in the sense that it's behaving in a way that wasn't intended (giving you auto-headshots) but balance-wise it's fine.

 

[FyreWulff]

How is it broken? It may be a bit stronger than the DMR (although every time I pick it up it doesn't exactly feel that way) but it's not like you can spawn with it. There's only a few of them on a map at the most and clearly hardly anyone think it's worth picking up so I don't think there's a problem. People don't sprint towards the Needle Rifle spawn right at the start or anything.

It may be broken in the sense that it's behaving in a way that wasn't intended (giving you auto-headshots) but balance-wise it's fine.

You can fire at people's midriff and get headshots. It occurs in both 85% and ZB.

That behavior should have indicated to someone to leave the NR, a weapon that was very obviously designed around 100% from the get-go, at 100% bloom.

 

[Louis Wu]

THC back down again, whoever these untalented fucks are why not work hard on w/e you are doing instead of try and tarnish other people works. I hate people.

So Cloud Flare didn't help? That sucks.

 

[Enfinit]

I was pondering this the other day: what happens to 343i after the Halo franchise is finished (at this point, after Halo 6)? Granted, that won't be for some time, however the studio was brought into fruition to develop solely Halo from my understanding, and Halo will inevitably end eventually, so will the studio disband or move on to another project?

 

[Tawpgun]

See, I think what happens is designers don't get to say "YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE SUPER EPIC UBER COOL" enough anymore. That mindset produces great things and it produces crappy things. I'm pretty sure the id and Epic guys started out out with that mindset.

No one sets out to make bad games. The same process that made Armor Lock made Master Chief..."wouldn't it be cool if the player could take over this space marine and fight the aliens from his perspective."



Just saw this, I don't necessarily disagree, I just think that ("would it be cool") is critical to making things that don't suck. Sometimes you get good stuff, sometimes you get Armor Lock.

There's a difference between saying it, trying it out, and then realizing its a terrible idea. And don't compare game balance to the making of a character.

What happened here is they did it, they tested it, and were either COMPLETLEY blind or just said, "WHO CARES ITS STILL AWESOME AS FUCK"

And from the Bungie Vidocs that almost seems to be the case. "Armor Lock. It's SUPER powerful. I love it."

 

[FyreWulff]

So Cloud Flare didn't help? That sucks.

Coral Cache seems to be working (?)

http://thehalocouncil.proboards.com.nyud.net/

edit: derp WRONG ONE

edit2: okay yeah coral cache doesn't work for the Cyren Halo Council. disregard.

 

[Blue Ninja]

I was pondering this the other day: what happens to 343i after the Halo franchise is finished (at this point, after Halo 6)? Granted, that won't be for some time, however the studio was brought into fruition to develop solely Halo from my understanding, and Halo will inevitably end eventually, so will the studio disband or move on to another project?

They'll be frozen in carbonite for thirty years, until the world is ready for the Glorious Return of the Master Chief. For the second time.

 

[Stinkles]

Speaking of details you can't go into. One of the big itches that Firefight scratches can be summed up in three words: Last Man Standing. High stakes, do or die, survival mode.

I know Spartan Ops is not Firefight. But can you say if it will scratch that particular itch in some way?

All the time. In fact, sometimes just getting to a safe spawn location so your dead teammates can rejoin does that, or saving the day single-handedly, or showing up to help someone in matchmaking who's stuck.

 

[Slightly Live]

I was pondering this the other day: what happens to 343i after the Halo franchise is finished (at this point, after Halo 6)? Granted, that won't be for some time, however the studio was brought into fruition to develop solely Halo from my understanding, and Halo will inevitably end eventually, so will the studio disband or move on to another project?

You're assuming Halo is finished when the next trilogy ends.

They can always start another trilogy afterwards. Halo will "end" when it's decided that the costs involved won't return a healthy revenue.

 

[Risen]

I really want to get into test and design.

I'd be terrible at design... but I'd make a jam up tester. Would love to do this someday.

 

[willow ve]

I was pondering this the other day: what happens to 343i after the Halo franchise is finished (at this point, after Halo 6)? Granted, that won't be for some time, however the studio was brought into fruition to develop solely Halo from my understanding, and Halo will inevitably end eventually, so will the studio disband or move on to another project?

Halo 6 is in, what, 8 years? Maybe 10 years? I would guess by that time we'll be talking about Xbox Generation 3 and we'll need a new Halo? Something fully immersive, using 4K TV's and Kinect 5.0.

There will always be demand for more Halo.

You're assuming Halo is finished when the next trilogy ends.

They can always start another trilogy afterwards. Halo will "end" when it's decided that the costs involved won't return a health revenue.

Beat me to it.

 

[Karl2177]

karl, if you can get 3 of your team on tonight, we can do 3v3 for our tourney match.

Maybe. I personally can't be there, and you'd have to ask Sai and Eslim if they can.

Monster, since Krispy won't be around for 4-5 more weeks, he said that nzapster might be able to sub for him. Is that okay? And if it is, check if he can play tonight, and there could be a 3v3. Otherwise I know I can play tomorrow night around 10pm cst.

 

[Enfinit]

You're assuming Halo is finished when the next trilogy ends.

They can always start another trilogy afterwards. Halo will "end" when it's decided that the costs involved won't return a healthy revenue.

Halo 6 is in, what, 8 years? Maybe 10 years? I would guess by that time we'll be talking about Xbox Generation 3 and we'll need a new Halo? Something fully immersive, using 4K TV's and Kinect 5.0.

There will always be demand for more Halo.



Beat me to it.

I'm not saying Halo will end with Halo 6 in the slightest, however you have to figure it'll end eventually. Unless Mario is introduced.

Just curious about the future of the studio, rather than the franchise.

 

[neoism]

any word on if REACH will have an August update? A good one too. if not I'm officially done with Halo.

 

[TheOddOne]

I'm not saying Halo will end with Halo 6 in the slightest, however you have to figure it'll end eventually. Unless Mario is introduced.

Just curious about the future of the studio, rather than the franchise.

Halo is Microsoft's Mario. We will get more games (mainline and spinoffs), more live-action and transmedia.

 

[Recarpo]

No thanks, if I could go dark on SP & SPO I would.

But there will be plenty more in the September/October lead up. May even get one from PAX/Gamescom.

I'm the same way with SP and spartan ops. I'd rather my first impressions be me playing it than seeing it in a video online. I'm probably going to be avoiding most things halo after Pax just to get as little info about those two as possible.

 

[Enfinit]

any word on if REACH will have an August update? A good one too. if not I'm officially done with Halo.

August's update will supposedly streamline Reach and Halo 3, as well as other significant stuff.

Source: http://halo.xbox.com/blogs/Headlines/post/2012/07/06/The-Halo-Bulletin-7612.aspx

Halo is Microsoft's Mario. We will get more games (mainline and spinoffs), more live-action and transmedia.

Just as long as the quality's there. If Halo Ridge Racer or Chief vs. Cortana Tekken 14.5 comes out, I'm done.

It's weird to imagine what Halo 6's multiplayer will be (given Halo 6 is at least 6-8 years from now).

 

[xxjuicesxx]

I'd be terrible at design... but I'd make a jam up tester. Would love to do this someday.

I'd really like a guide on it instead of a very cheesy obviously commercial website trying to charge me money for it. I've liked this so far. I think I'm pretty detail oriented, understanding, and have the ability to do very well in that field. I think I'd be happier working with games too.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Halo 6 is in, what, 8 years? Maybe 10 years? I would guess by that time we'll be talking about Xbox Generation 3 and we'll need a new Halo? Something fully immersive, using 4K TV's and Kinect 5.0.

Probably about 4 years.

any word on if REACH will have an August update? A good one too. if not I'm officially done with Halo.

It will have one. A good one? Nobody knows, but it's supposed to consolidate playlists.

August's update will supposedly streamline Reach and Halo 3, as well as other significant stuff.

Halo 3 update? I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[lybertyboy]

Speaking of details you can't go into. One of the big itches that Firefight scratches can be summed up in three words: Last Man Standing. High stakes, do or die, survival mode.

I know Spartan Ops is not Firefight. But can you say if it will scratch that particular itch in some way?

There are situations where that itched will be scratched. Also, expect itches scratched that you didn't even know you had.

 

[Tunavi]

It will have one. A good one? Nobody knows, but it's supposed to consolidate playlists.

all they will do is add a grifball map

reach is dead

 

[The Henery]

It will have one. A good one? Nobody knows, but it's supposed to consolidate playlists.


Halo 3 update? I'll believe it when I see it.

That's what I thought but then I just re-read this

We are well aware, almost painfully so, that the playlists need to be consolidated and the overall matchmaking experience needs to be streamlined. We&#8217;re planning on doing that in August, although, as you recently found out, things can change. Just know that we&#8217;re aware it is needed and coming; it&#8217;s just a matter of when.

So I wouldn't count on Reach receiving any treatment during August or at least during the first weeks of the month.

 

[FyreWulff]

all they will do is add a grifball map

reach is dead

Every playlist will become Grifball maps.

Then all the maps in Grifball will become Cragmire.

 

[Kibbles]

Why do I have to download big updates every time I start Waypoint? >_>

 

[Talents]

August's update will supposedly streamline Reach and Halo 3, as well as other significant stuff.

If they do an update for Halo 3, it will probably be the removal of a few playlists.

 

[Homeboyd]

Then all the maps in Grifball will become Cragmire.

Yes

 

[FyreWulff]

If they do an update for Halo 3, it will probably be the removal of a few playlists.

That's what most sane people are hoping for right now.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Jesus, I just noticed we're this close to another OT again. I must have like, what, five posts in this one in total? You guys move fast.