Aggrotek
Member
It would be too powerful for the sandbox. Having one weapon that dominates all the others makes the rest of the weapon sandbox obsolete.
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Halo |OT7| You may leave, Juices. And take Team Downer with you.
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It would be too powerful for the sandbox. Having one weapon that dominates all the others makes the rest of the weapon sandbox obsolete.
You sir are the bearer of bad news
Too bad the anniversary map pack isn't like the halo 3 odst mythic multiplayer disc. Where it contains all the halo maps. Probably won't buy it then because I don't have any of the other maps as well.
This logic is disappointing to see.
I fail to understand why people feel the need to nerf one good weapon instead of just buffing the rest.
GG.
Or give each starting weapon distinct strengths and weaknesses, and unique and useful purposes for the other weapons.
Aggrotek
Member
You sir are the bearer of bad news
Too bad the anniversary map pack isn't like the halo 3 odst mythic multiplayer disc. Where it contains all the halo maps. Probably won't buy it then because I don't have any of the other maps as well.
This logic is disappointing to see.
I fail to understand why people feel the need to nerf one good weapon instead of just buffing the rest.
It isn't a nerf. You are asking for a god tier weapon such as the CE pistol. This is not how any one weapon should be. Each has a place and role, and if there is one weapon that breaks this, what is the point of all the other weapons.
That would be far too complicated for 343i, they have all their resources pooled into more important things such as how to balance and make all AA's useful.
My failed attempt at being a part of team downer
On a more serious note if halo 4 ends up with a sandbox like what you have suggested it would be interesting to play. Don't know if it would be good or bad, depending on how it is implemented.
On an even more serious note I am looking forward to the podcast that david ellis hinted about, hopeful for good things!!
So did you just stop reading right after finishing the bolded part?
The last part of the sentence feels hurt from neglect
Have you ever played Halo CE? Every weapon was extremely useful in their niche in the sandbox. Except the needler.
A lot of people think that nerfing weapons is the answer when if they actually buffed the other weapons to better fit their niche, the game would be much more balanced.
Another thing in Halo is that developers tend to balance all the weapons around the assault rifle. If they balanced the game around the utility weapons (BR, DMR, Carbine etc.) I can guarantee the game would be a lot better, because those useless weapons that they put in the sandbox wouldn't be useless anymore.
There is a reason why the Halo CE sandbox is the most balanced out of all the Halos.
Aggrotek
Member
You don't even know the entire sandbox. I never said anything about a nerf, and therefore did not need to acknowledge a buff. From what we have seen all of the weapons look fine. I'm done arguing with you about this.
Perhaps you should hold a seminar about balancing weapons in First-person-shooters, you are clearly very gifted when it comes to understanding how these things work; why I don't believe I've ever heard this line of reasoning before.
Truly genius, good sir; keep it up, maybe you can be the new sandbox designer at 343.
Perhaps you shouldn't whine and moan every time somebody has an opinion about anything.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
hey guys what's up lol
Pot meet kettle
Aggrotek
Member
The sky! Duh.
Yeah, though I'm most interested in what the Forerunner vehicles will be, and I can't imagine they will reveal those. A guy can hope, though. Maybe even just one, Frankie?
NobleGundam
Banned
So tired. Movie is still in the making and I don't have free time to do much.
While we await for Halo 4. Bulletins, FUD, H4 Toys/Console, TTW & Silentium Books are to keep us busy with new information and entertainment. My Hype needs to rise again..
While we await for Halo 4. Bulletins, FUD, H4 Toys/Console, TTW & Silentium Books are to keep us busy with new information and entertainment. My Hype needs to rise again..
Bregmann Roche
Member
If you can live with a soft, dark, non-HD image for your videos then it's a cheap option. I would rather spend the extra cash and get something that could generate good looking HD footage.
I like were this thread is going.
So you can make assumptions about the sandbox but I can't.. Gotcha makes complete sense!
I never said that I wanted the light rifle to dominate the entire sandbox, I just want a utility weapon with fast kill times. Is that too much to ask? My solution to making the light rifle a ce "god like weapon" would be to buff the rest of the sandbox, this in turn was a solution I presented to your noted fears in the first quote.
Lastly who said we were arguing? It was my impression that we were having a discussion, that is until you decided to stop.
I don't understand why you completely dismiss the idea. In each successive halo game utility weapons have received nerfs while power weapons either get buffed or remain the same. A person does not need to be a game designer to notice the trend or the problem.
I might not be a game designer or hell even have any idea what I am talking about, but ill be damned if I just sit on my hands and watch. At the very least as more people come to recognize these problems (and voice their opinions) it increases the likelihood that someone who actually knows what they are talking about will come forward and present an idea a developer might listen to.
If I was the sandbox designer at 343i the game would play like Halo CE.
No AA's, perks, or other bullshit gimmicks.
It would just be good old fashion arena shooter Halo that we all know and love.
But, I don't think they are looking for that. They are more concerned with tapping into the CoD audience.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Vehicles that morph tron style? Oh baby.
I complain about garbage playlist management and terrible pre-release marketing, not people who engage in legitimate discussion.
Look, I know you're a struggling artist or whatever, and I know Frankie has a position of power at a major developer who hires people like yourself. I get the relentlessly positive and defensive posts about 343. It's smart. But at a certain point you don't have to defend 343 every single time someone offers a suggestion you don't like. Just skip their post. Put people on ignore if you have absolutely no self-control. People have opinions.
I'd hire you to build the sandbox and juices to run the playlists. Plywood can make gifs for the weekly update. Overdoz will be head of my translation department. Risen can be head of barbeques.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Eh, I think they want a piece of that audience (who doesn't?) but I think their main goal is to evolve the franchise. If Halo 4 was the exact same style as Halo 1 11 years later no one except a few would be playing Halo. I don't agree with every AA or anything, but I do think a lot of the changes were needed to keep Halo fresh 11 years after the first game.
I've finally found my purpose in life.
Well we've had this discussion before in here...
I should have just said thread is on repeat, /eyeroll
Thanks for the 'struggling artist' call-out, appreciated.
I'll take your advice to ignore some people.
I think they're more concerned with both maintaining Halo's core while crafting their own vision for what Halo is, and owning it, rather than just repeating what came before. They have an impossible task, but from what we've seen so far they're doing a pretty good job of it.
Oh my. That would be excellent. Maybe allow light trails as a forge option?
Yeah, no. I wouldn't buy that Halo. Played enough of that. May be a surprise but people actually get bored of doing the same thing again and again.
But neither i would buy a Halo that is directly like COD.
This mix of classic Halo and COD Halo 4 seems to be, that't nice. Not sold on all features though.
If i were a Halo desinger, the end result would be somewhat different than many FPS at the moment, i think.
Strong emphasis on movement, sprinting, crouching, jumping, vaulting, sliding, all important, really fast overall. Weapon and armor customization on the fly. Vehicle customization, strong focus on vehicles. No aim-down-sights probably.
Not sure how i'd do weapons but i'd probably leave utility weapons out.
EDIT control scheme notes: Crouching and jumping on bumbers, sprint on left stick by default, this allows easy movement. Slide triggered by sprint+crouch, vaulting automatical when sprinting, jumping grabs sledges. Also super jump (hold jump for a moment).
Evolution is guided by natural selection.
Where true evolution is concerned, a less favorable trait (Armor Abilities for example) would be phased out through evolution and the process of natural selection.
Finally, evolution is the process of micro-evolution creating macro-evolution. What we see from Halo 1 to Halo 4 is hardly anything that even slightly resembles evolution.
What they're actually doing, is trying to get you to by the game, and calling it evolution.
There are no Halo-related conversations that haven't been had a dozen times in these threads, don't be crazy. Most of them go better than this one.
I'm going to go quit my job now, tell my boss what I really think of him, and reveal to him that I do the dirty deed with his daughter on a weekly basis.
indubitably
Member
Not in certain gametypes though.
I was playing BTB assault on ridgeline yesterday and got betrayed maybe 13 times while trying to just play the game. One time, however, I got the bomb pretty close to their base before dying only to have one my own teammates attempt to carry it all the way back to our base. I decided to betray him and run the bomb back but when I did, I got booted.
bobs...onGaf
Member
I can live with a small but versatile sandbox, especially if the alternative is that there are lots of weapons but they only work well in specific situations. I think the former allows for players to have more control over situations that occur whilst the latter leads to a very rock paper scissors style of game.
Bregmann Roche
Member
I agree with him in principle, but changes to a fighting game's characters present different problems than changes to an FPS. In the case of something like Hemorrhage's unfair cliffside sniper spot, or Oddball Sword Baaaaase: changes to the game should be frequent but small.
Changes to those things would have no effect on the sandbox and would barely have an effect on the playlists they were applied to. It's the lack of these sorts of relatively simple changes (over the course of months) that hurt the quality of the online experience and swell the ranks of Team Downer.
First off have no problems with any of the things you proposed if you were a halo designer.
Only problem I have is with the first bit about how you get bored playing the same thing again and again.
Why?
I have had to play watered down halo with weak utility weapons (in 3 and reach) and I get bored of playing the same thing again and again. Another point to make would be if you are bored of playing the same thing, why not play a different game. If it has halo in the name we have to assume it is going to play like halo and thus sort of the same thing.
inb4AA'saregood
Agreed. But add in Return on Investment. Of course they want CoD sales. They're spending too much money not to need those sales.
Given what has to be pretty harsh pressure to achieve RoI, I think they're doing a good job keeping Halo close to its core, at least based on the footage so far.
That sounds a lot like Brink. We all know how that game turned out.
Not sure what you mean by that in this case. My vision of Halo would be rather different from what it is now. I'd keep the arena shooter aspects of it and picking up weapons. But i'd take account the player characters are super soldiers. Map desing would have to accomondate that of course.
The actual game was good, the online networking, matchmaking, horrible lag, and host issues is what killed it.
I am bored of playing Halo 3 and Reach. With Halo CE, the issue was that it was always the same. Always using the magnum. Maybe in hyper-competitive games the other weapons had some use but on casual Halo PC matches the magnum owned. Boring. On local split screen, the pistol owned. Boring.
I prefer i have 100 different and viable ways to win, not just one. And another 100 more specialized ways to win.
I want a lot of variety. Small differences in weapons like in COD is not really enough, though it is better than having one of each weapon type. This is what i love in Halo 4, more choices, even though they're limited in scope. But not ambitious enough.
No idea what Brink is or why it failed. But i really doubt it was the premise that was faulty. Usually it is the execution and marketing.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
What you're (and what I am) saying is highly opinion based, though. Armor abilities being a "less favorable trait" is something you believe, but not something that everyone believes entirely. A lot of people enjoy AA's. A lot of people enjoy AA's except the obviously broken ones. So how does your evolution theory occur, when everyone has differing opinions on what type of Halo they want?
bobs...onGaf
Member
100 versatile weapons would be great, but I would take 1 versatile weapon over 100 weapons which only work in a specific role.
So what's wrong with having the ce pistol "god like weapon" with the rest of the sandbox being buffed to compensate?
Unfortunately, 343 has to take into account all the players that hopped on board after halo 1. I can deal with all the new stuff like AA's, loadouts, etc. What I can't deal with is the increased kill times, easier aiming mechanics, weakened strafe, degradation of maps, degredation of gunplay. In essence the nerfing of the individual player to do damage in a game. I personally feel the ability for an individual player to have the ability to dominate and take over a game, while still maintaining a medium paced shooter, was the feature that made halo great. (I could be wrong)
Well since AAs are there, I think 343 is taking the right approach to them.
What worked about Evade, what didn't => Thruster Pack
What worked about Armor Lock, what didn't => Hardlight Shield
I'm talking about going ALL the way back to Halo 1 and looking from that game though, and that's where I think where a lot of what made Halo great was lost.
100 utility weapons + 100 special weapons (ie power and semi-power weapons).
Combine with wide variety of movement options, more than currently, and well thought out and done AAs enchancing, not slowing down the game... that's what i want.
Genesis Knight
Member
Brink fell on the sword of a mid-cycle development reboot and then Bethesda delivered the coup de grace of letting it release with broken netcode.
The concept was/is awesome and amazing. Mechanics needed some work, but it never had the lifespan to get the balance tweaks it needed.
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