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Halo |OT8| A Salt on the Control Room

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
I guess I just don't get it. Skill still matters. All the XP system and customization adds is stuff for you to do outside of playing the actual matches. It doesn't make a terrible Halo player beat a skilled Halo player, not at all. It just gives everyone some more to do and more to shoot for when trying to win matches.

Yeah, the AA's and stuff add another layer to multiplayer, but it's not a win guarantee. If you're good at Halo you're still going to win. Especially now that I have played Halo 4 I can more confidently say this. The core mechanics are still there, and from my time with it the extra AAs and "perks" didn't add enough to make me lose a battle I'd have normally won without that extra layer in place.

I get that some dislike this new layer to Halo that technically started with Halo 3's equipment and evolved into Reach and 4's AAs and 4's "perk" system, but when the gameplay is still fundamentally sound and skill still matters, it doesn't affect the overall experience as much as some people may think. No, it's not Halo 1 or 2, but it's 100% NOT Call of Duty. It's still Halo.

EDIT: As a note, I fully understand the points of those who want the 100% vanilla Halo experience, but in the light of the Halo series evolution it's not as bad as some may think.
 
I didn't have time to mess around in the Murder Miners trial, so I am just wondering if there are vehicles in the game? I assume that there isn't based off the trailer, but I would like to know for sure.
 

nillapuddin

Member
I really hope the "points" earned in-game, have a clear correlation to XP earned

I feel like it would really ground your actions and make them matter instead of doing whatever in the game and pretty much only looking forward to the game completion bonus or jackpot
 
Exactly.

That is the fundamental shift from earlier Halo games to this one, and it's a shift that Call of Duty hammered out and made fantastically profitable in the console space. It's a shift that, by design, says that single matches, single battles, and single results -- whether undertaken as a team or an individual -- are largely irrelevant. They are sideshows staged in service of the metagame, in which you level up and show people you have levelled up. You grind XP and change your armour so everyone can see you have ground a lot of XP, and you build a variety of 'classes' that give you a semblance of control and responsiveness ("It's not that I am inferior; I just didn't pick the right loadout for that situation; back to the start menu!"). Wins and losses matter less. How your team did, whether they got beaten, matters less. All the trappings of competitive play, the 4v4 (or 5v5) set-ups, matter less. They are stage dressing for a fundamentally solo performance in which you measure your current performance only against your own previous performances, and the game doesn't punish you for falling short. The metric for all of this is XP, and conveniently it's a metric that can never run negative, never hurt your feelings.

And as I've said before, there's nothing inherently wrong with it; in fact it's more successful precisely because everyone can be a winner, always. But until now I've always been glad that there is an alternative to it among console FPS.

The alternative was Halo. Now it is not an alternative. Which is depressing. I'll get over it, but I feel like the game is going somewhere that isn't for me. Which is something I didn't feel even in my deepest moments of disappointment with Reach.

I understand this viewpoint, but it's simply not an issue in-game from my experience. The core gameplay dominates the game, and the player(s) that execute that core gameplay better are going to prevail.

There is one thing about Halo 4 that I feel impedes the competitive team environment, but it's not something you mentioned. Global Ordnance Drop system.

I really hope the "points" earned in-game, have a clear correlation to XP earned

I feel like it would really ground your actions and make them matter instead of doing whatever in the game and pretty much only looking forward to the game completion bonus or jackpot

Based on what I've seen and experience form the system they have in place, it would be downright stupid if the points in game where not directly the points you earn in the investment system. That's the whole point of moving to a point system with stuff like 10 points per kill, creates uniformity between a point system in-game and investment system.
 

Woorloog

Banned
I really hope the "points" earned in-game, have a clear correlation to XP earned

I feel like it would really ground your actions and make them matter instead of doing whatever in the game and pretty much only looking forward to the game completion bonus or jackpot

The shorter the match+the better you perform=more Spartan bucks. Or whatever they're called.
That's how it should work. Performing includes assists etc, so the same formula can be used for objective games though for those victory should matter a lot, boosting the total points gained by 50% or even more.
 
I wish there was a way to buy small amounts of MS points.. I want to get Murder Miners but really don't want to buy extra points as Im tight on money. (school starts tomorrow for me, so I gotta buy books, supplies etc)

I hope they eventually allow for smaller purchases of MS points.

Nope.jpg

October 1st, bro.

648765088.png

Unless you live in the UK, then yah, you are totally right.

Wait, I didn't think they announced gamefuel for the US, but rather standard dew with Halo 4 branding?


I would expect there to be many more weapon/armour skins available either upon or post-release as micro-DLC.

Yup, I hope so, but if it is tied to the same resource as armor Im not gonna expect it.
 

senador

Banned
Steely, what's the Storm Rifle like? Do you have to lead shots? I want it to be similar to the Reach beta Plasma Repeater. I don't want it to be nerfed, but I also don't want it to be another annoying AR type gun.
 
Steely, what's the Storm Rifle like? Do you have to lead shots? I want it to be similar to the Reach beta Plasma Repeater. I don't want it to be nerfed, but I also don't want it to be another annoying AR type gun.

Storm Rifle is a beast. Firepower and use it as secondary quickly became my go to.

It doesn't really feel exactly like any of the Plasma Rifles/or Repeaters, but it fires quickly, is very powerful, and has a very shallow overheat. I think you have to lead it.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Storm Rifle is a beast. Firepower and use it as secondary quickly became my go to.

It doesn't really feel exactly like any of the Plasma Rifles/or Repeaters, but it fires quickly, is very powerful, and has a very shallow overheat. I think you have to lead it.

I understood the Suppressor is more or less the opposite, less damage but more volume of fire. And i suppose the assault rifle sits in the middle of them?
The Storm Rifle sounds very good but i wonder if i'll find any use for the other two automatics.
Not really keen on Firepower (especially with ability to start with the Plasma Pistol), so many other choices seem to be suiting me better.
 
I guess I just don't get it. Skill still matters. All the XP system and customization adds is stuff for you to do outside of playing the actual matches. It doesn't make a terrible Halo player beat a skilled Halo player, not at all. It just gives everyone some more to do and more to shoot for when trying to win matches.
Halo was a game where two teams of four were plucked from the ether and set against one another. Eight players entered the game, often on a symmetrical map, with the same tools, the same options, the same objectives. A second later, they were streaking off across the map to grab weapons and control locations. Individual duels would arise. Superior skill, knowledge, and experience won out much more often than not.

Importantly, no one new entered the fray while a match was in session; the eight players who began the game were the eight who would finish it -- or more likely 'resign' the game by quitting, because that's what people do when they are being beaten and the punishment for quitting is lesser than the punishment for staying and losing and learning how not to lose next time. In a competitive or ranked game, however, all eight players set out to win because it would improve their record, their rank, their stats, their status both as they perceived it and as other players they would encounter perceived it.

It was, at its heart, a large-scale communal negotiation of hierarchy. There was a curve; it split winners and losers. If you fought harder, did better, learned from your mistakes, failed better, you could inch up the curve at the expense of others. You understood your value in comparison and contrast with your friends, your enemies, your peers. The result of a given game had a shared meaning, of sorts.

...

But Halo will soon be a game where a bunch of players hop into a game perhaps just beginning, perhaps seconds from its conclusion. The players on each team may already have changed many times. Many players may not care about the score or be invested in the result for that reason (among others). Some players may be focused on grinding a particular medal or challenge rather than winning the game. Most will be trying to get as much XP as possible so they can unlock wallhack and a sweet set of greaves. A few won't care about XP at all, and so will be focused on the old-fashioned inherent rewards of doing well -- but because of certain rule changes, these players will avoid going after, say, the flag in a CTF game because it is even more detrimental to those inherent rewards than before. And their 'competitive' experience will meanwhile be compromised by all those players who don't particularly care about the inherent rewards of team success.

At the end of the game these individual players will see wildly different numbers rack up on their screen -- their 'XP'. Maybe they will gain a level. Maybe they'll giddily spend an artificial currency on status rewards that have no scarcity and hence no real status. No one will really lose. No one will really win. There will be no means by which you can know you are better than another player in a given game, because the context is more changeable and the mechanics more arbitrary over a 10-minute match than ever before. And there will be no means by which you can know you are better than another player even over a much longer haul, because even if the arbitrariness smooths out over months of play, there is no metric for skill, only experience (quite literally, 'XP'). Most importantly, there will be no means by which you chart your progress in terms of skill. There are no systems in place to demonstrate you are a better player than you were two months ago, that you improved, that you beat the curve, crept forward, improved relative to your peers. Your peers start to become props, under this philosophy; they are now pinatas with points in them. An eight-player match is eight individuals trying to get a solo high score faster than the seven others; but it's no longer a zero-sum game, and you no longer really beat someone, except in the most threadbare sense, and not in a way that has a shared meaning. All you can do is outpace them to the next helmet. It's a game everyone can win (albeit at different speeds), and not a sport of consequence.

I get that those things don't matter to many, or even most, and certainly not in the heady first week or month of release. But they matter to me. And I'll mourn them. I'll love the core gameplay, I'll delight in learning the new maps and mechanics, I'll have a blast with my friends for a month or two... and then I'll wonder why all the rewards are set up to be extrinsic, and the onus for finding meaning in all those random matches is on me. And I'll wonder why 343 don't care that I, or those like me, played Halo -- rather than other shooters -- in part for those reasons.

(Too long, don't read.)
 

Domino Theory

Crystal Dynamics
Storm Rifle is a beast. Firepower and use it as secondary quickly became my go to.

It doesn't really feel exactly like any of the Plasma Rifles/or Repeaters, but it fires quickly, is very powerful, and has a very shallow overheat. I think you have to lead it.

I didn't get to use it during our playtime at PAX, but I'm glad you did and it's still strong. I was worried they would've nerfed it too much from E3.
 
So I tried out Murder Miners and adjusted the control scheme to my preferred Green Thumb layout (the functions are exactly the same, except substitute alternative fire for AAs). If you can make Sprint a toggle, it works wonderfully.

I am now more disappointed with the layout 343 went for Green Thumb in Halo 4 than I was before.
 

nillapuddin

Member
The shorter the match+the better you perform=more Spartan bucks. Or whatever they're called.
That's how it should work. Performing includes assists etc, so the same formula can be used for objective games though for those victory should matter a lot, boosting the total points gained by 50% or even more.

In this game from Eli

He goes 24-9-17, and scores 500 points
The players score range from 600-300~


So then when you see his payout screen


Nothing shows how well he did, just that he finished, and used fast track

Id like it if it were more like this

  • Performance: 500
  • Bonus: (MVP, OBJ scores, etc)
  • Game Complete: (Some time based figure)
  • Fast track: (% of complete while using fast track)
  • Jackpots: ____

That way you actually feel like your earning those points from something besides showing up

Also if Halo 4's career rank strucutre is not
FUCKINGBANANAS
like Reach, earning 1000 points a match will actually matter

In the eli game he is between level 12 and 13, it takes 5500~ XP to level up between these two

Now obviously 5 games to rank up is pretty lenient but who knows how the final numbers will work out to be

My point is I think it would benefit the players, and give them a deeper immersion into their performance if there was a..

  1. Clear depiction of how XP is earned and/or direct correlation between in-game points
  2. More realistically tiered career system


(follows massive shake appeal rant, sorry friend, I disagree heavily)
 

Louis Wu

Member
Eloquent sound and fury, signifying... well, something
So first off, DIDO will NOT be the norm - 343 has said this more than once. There will be playlists where you can join (and/or leave) a game in progress - but there will be plenty of opportunity to participate in the classic "you're in till you're out" style.

More importantly, though - your description of the 'old' Halo - a game where you win at the expense of your opponent, a zero-sum system that requires a loser for every winner... I don't remember that game. Maybe, to a small degree, Halo 2 was that way... but Halo 3 sure wasn't.

I'll agree with you that the whole investment system is silly. I didn't buy any armor at all in Reach before hitting... I can't remember, 5 million cR or something. I didn't even customize colors; I think I was trying to make a statement. And now that I have 100% armor completion, and I STILL have 15 million cR in the bank... well, it's dumb. But that doesn't change the day-to-day gameplay in the slightest. And I don't think it will in Halo 4, either.

I will echo what a number of people have said already - that at least in this early stage, the core gameplay FEELS like Halo. Still.
 

Gazzawa

Member
Importantly, no one new entered the fray while a match was in session; the eight players who began the game were the eight who would finish it -- or more likely 'resign' the game by quitting, because that's what people do when they are being beaten and the punishment for quitting is lesser than the punishment for staying and losing and learning how not to lose next time. In a competitive or ranked game, however, all eight players set out to win because it would improve their record, their rank, their stats, their status both as they perceived it and as other players they would encounter perceived it.

It was, at its heart, a large-scale communal negotiation of hierarchy. There was a curve; it split winners and losers. If you fought harder, did better, learned from your mistakes, failed better, you could inch up the curve at the expense of others. You understood your value in comparison and contrast with your friends, your enemies, your peers. The result of a given game had a shared meaning, of sorts.

...

But Halo will soon be a game where a bunch of players hop into a game perhaps just beginning, perhaps seconds from its conclusion. The players on each team may already have changed many times. Many players may not care about the score or be invested in the result for that reason (among others). Some players may be focused on grinding a particular medal or challenge rather than winning the game. Most will be trying to get as much XP as possible so they can unlock wallhack and a sweet set of greaves. A few won't care about XP at all, and so will be focused on the old-fashioned inherent rewards of doing well -- but because of certain rule changes, these players will avoid going after, say, the flag in a CTF game because it is even more detrimental to those inherent rewards than before. And their 'competitive' experience will meanwhile be compromised by all those players who don't particularly care about the inherent rewards of team success.

At the end of the game these individual players will see wildly different numbers rack up on their screen -- their 'XP'. Maybe they will gain a level. Maybe they'll giddily spend an artificial currency on status rewards that have no scarcity and hence no real status. No one will really lose. No one will really win. There will be no means by which you can know you are better than another player in a given game, because the context is more changeable and the mechanics more arbitrary over a 10-minute match than ever before. And there will be no means by which you can know you are better than another player even over a much longer haul, because even if the arbitrariness smooths out over months of play, there is no metric for skill, only experience (quite literally, 'XP'). Most importantly, there will be no means by which you chart your progress in terms of skill. There are no systems in place to demonstrate you are a better player than you were two months ago, that you improved, that you beat the curve, crept forward, improved relative to your peers. Your peers start to become props, under this philosophy; they are now pinatas with points in them. An eight-player match is eight individuals trying to get a solo high score faster than the seven others; but it's no longer a zero-sum game, and you no longer really beat someone, except in the most threadbare sense, and not in a way that has a shared meaning. All you can do is outpace them to the next helmet. It's a game everyone can win (albeit at different speeds), and not a sport of consequence.

I get that those things don't matter to many, or even most, and certainly not in the heady first week or month of release. But they matter to me. And I'll mourn them. I'll love the core gameplay, I'll delight in learning the new maps and mechanics, I'll have a blast with my friends for a month or two... and then I'll wonder why all the rewards are set up to be extrinsic, and the onus for finding meaning in all those random matches is on me. And I'll wonder why 343 don't care that I, or those like me, played Halo -- rather than other shooters -- in part for those reasons.
95.%2BLisa%2Bvs.%2BMalibu%2BStacy.bmp
 

Domino Theory

Crystal Dynamics
So first off, DIDO will NOT be the norm - 343 has said this more than once. There will be playlists where you can join (and/or leave) a game in progress - but there will be plenty of opportunity to participate in the classic "you're in till you're out" style.

I see Infinity Slayer as 'the' Halo 4 playlist in terms of what 343 wants Halo 4's identity to be by letting it have all the changes (DIDO, personal & random ordnance drops, push X to respawn, all loadout options allowed). All other playlists will cater to a specific change being omitted (no X to respawn in objective, no personal ordnance in objective, etc.)

Louis Wu said:
I will echo what a number of people have said already - that at least in this early stage, the core gameplay FEELS like Halo. Still.

Absolutely.

343 can add all the layers they want on top, all I care about is that Halo's core gameplay that I fell in love with is back. Period.
 
The alternative was Halo. Now it is not an alternative. Which is depressing. I'll get over it, but I feel like the game is going somewhere that isn't for me. Which is something I didn't feel even in my deepest moments of disappointment with Reach.

Oh come on man.. Some cynicism is fine, but really? How can you say that with a serious face and not at least see that Halo 4 is clearly way more Halo (in every sense) than Reach can ever be at this point?
 

senador

Banned
Storm Rifle is a beast. Firepower and use it as secondary quickly became my go to.

It doesn't really feel exactly like any of the Plasma Rifles/or Repeaters, but it fires quickly, is very powerful, and has a very shallow overheat. I think you have to lead it.

I didn't get to use it during our playtime at PAX, but I'm glad you did and it's still strong. I was worried they would've nerfed it too much from E3.

I've been worried it'll just turn into a weak annoying weapon. It looks awesome and with the stuff Steely described it sounds like enough to take some ounce of skill to use and be useful. I'm excited to try it.


Good post. While I agree with you, I don't feel it'll be as detrimental to Halo 4 as you make it sound. I guess we'll see. I still think the majority of players will be playing because its Halo, and be playing to win, not for the meta game. Like others have said, I feel the meta stuff just gives you more to do and helps when things may not be going your way likewise when it is.

Id like it if it were more like this

  • Performance: 500
  • Bonus: (MVP, OBJ scores, etc)
  • Game Complete: (Some time based figure)
  • Fast track: (% of complete while using fast track)
  • Jackpots: ____

That way you actually feel like your earning those points from something besides showing up

Also if Halo 4's career rank strucutre is not
FUCKINGBANANAS
like Reach, earning 1000 points a match will actually matter

In the eli game he is between level 12 and 13, it takes 5500~ XP to level up between these two

Now obviously 5 games to rank up is pretty lenient but who knows how the final numbers will work out to be

My point is I think it would benefit the players, and give them a deeper immersion into their performance if there was a..

  1. Clear depiction of how XP is earned and/or direct correlation between in-game points
  2. More realistically tiered career system

Hadn't noticed that stuff before, but I'd agree. It'd be nice to show that you got paid out more for performing not for just playing. I think that sort of thing could go a long way in encouraging people to play harder and such.

So first off, DIDO will NOT be the norm - 343 has said this more than once. There will be playlists where you can join (and/or leave) a game in progress - but there will be plenty of opportunity to participate in the classic "you're in till you're out" style.

More importantly, though - your description of the 'old' Halo - a game where you win at the expense of your opponent, a zero-sum system that requires a loser for every winner... I don't remember that game. Maybe, to a small degree, Halo 2 was that way... but Halo 3 sure wasn't.

I'll agree with you that the whole investment system is silly. I didn't buy any armor at all in Reach before hitting... I can't remember, 5 million cR or something. I didn't even customize colors; I think I was trying to make a statement. And now that I have 100% armor completion, and I STILL have 15 million cR in the bank... well, it's dumb. But that doesn't change the day-to-day gameplay in the slightest. And I don't think it will in Halo 4, either.

I will echo what a number of people have said already - that at least in this early stage, the core gameplay FEELS like Halo. Still.

Interesting. I love Spartan dress-up. In the beginning of Reach up through like General, I was constantly playing with my armor and colors. Sometimes I changed it every round. I know a lot of people (all my IRL friends) really get into personalization options like that.

I do think Reach was done somewhat poorly, but that was more the progression system itself. I hope Halo 4 is more balanced in that regard.
 

Fotos

Member
Wait so Frankie said that all the armor was in the PAX build and there was no new MKIV only the old Halo 3 one. So this is the first Halo game where we cant have the main characters armor
 
So first off, DIDO will NOT be the norm - 343 has said this more than once. There will be playlists where you can join (and/or leave) a game in progress - but there will be plenty of opportunity to participate in the classic "you're in till you're out" style.
I'm glad of this, because it was one of the things I used to harp on when explaining to friends why I found CoD kind of soulless and unsatisfying. But since we (still) know so very, very little about playlists, or even the intent behind playlists, I'm sitting in the dark here crossing my fingers about this, and so much else.

More importantly, though - your description of the 'old' Halo - a game where you win at the expense of your opponent, a zero-sum system that requires a loser for every winner... I don't remember that game. Maybe, to a small degree, Halo 2 was that way... but Halo 3 sure wasn't.
It isn't so much about the zero-sum thing, because I think there are interesting ways around that, things no one has done very well yet, and probably things we haven't thought of... but more making the rewards for playing well, and particularly playing well as a team, intrinsic and inherent and obvious and shared and even 'communal', rather than increasingly individualistic and extrinsic. That stuff is obviously harder to do. XP and armour unlocks, at least by themselves, are the path of least resistance.

I will echo what a number of people have said already - that at least in this early stage, the core gameplay FEELS like Halo. Still.
I actually have little worry about that, even with all the unpredictable new elements throwing a hundred different spanners in the works. It's rules, playlists, rewards, and the metagame I think are potentially disappointing and/or hollow, and those are the things that help to keep people playing, in addition to a robust core gameplay.
 
Wait so Frankie said that all the armor was in the PAX build and there was no new MKIV only the old Halo 3 one. So this is the first Halo game where we cant have the main characters armor
Josh Holmes tweeted about this a while back. Master Chief's modified Mark VI is unique to him.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Wait so Frankie said that all the armor was in the PAX build and there was no new MKIV only the old Halo 3 one. So this is the first Halo game where we cant have the main characters armor

Yup. Though technically we've never been able to replicate the Chief exactly anyway (outside Halo 2) due to non-Halo 2 Chief's having unique colors. But that's irrelevant.

And technically some armors in Reach we couldn't replicate either... but then the player was the main character so kinda moot point.

I really would have liked to wear the Chief's campaign Mark VI, don't care for the classic with the new aesthetics.
 
I understood the Suppressor is more or less the opposite, less damage but more volume of fire. And i suppose the assault rifle sits in the middle of them?
The Storm Rifle sounds very good but i wonder if i'll find any use for the other two automatics.
Not really keen on Firepower (especially with ability to start with the Plasma Pistol), so many other choices seem to be suiting me better.
Yep, pretty much. I didn't get to use AR or Suppressor much, but that's how they felt. Suppressor didn't feel very strong.
I didn't get to use it during our playtime at PAX, but I'm glad you did and it's still strong. I was worried they would've nerfed it too much from E3.
As the weapon balance in the PAX build was probably very very near final, it appears that 343 has stuck to their guns with all the weapons being strong.
Massive post about investment system.

The investment system is surely not in place in custom games, just like how you only get a flat game complete points for custom games in Reach.
 

Arnie

Member
Halo was a game where two teams of four were plucked from the ether and set against one another. Eight players entered the game, often on a symmetrical map, with the same tools, the same options, the same objectives. A second later, they were streaking off across the map to grab weapons and control locations. Individual duels would arise. Superior skill, knowledge, and experience won out much more often than not.

Importantly, no one new entered the fray while a match was in session; the eight players who began the game were the eight who would finish it -- or more likely 'resign' the game by quitting, because that's what people do when they are being beaten and the punishment for quitting is lesser than the punishment for staying and losing and learning how not to lose next time. In a competitive or ranked game, however, all eight players set out to win because it would improve their record, their rank, their stats, their status both as they perceived it and as other players they would encounter perceived it.

It was, at its heart, a large-scale communal negotiation of hierarchy. There was a curve; it split winners and losers. If you fought harder, did better, learned from your mistakes, failed better, you could inch up the curve at the expense of others. You understood your value in comparison and contrast with your friends, your enemies, your peers. The result of a given game had a shared meaning, of sorts.

...

But Halo will soon be a game where a bunch of players hop into a game perhaps just beginning, perhaps seconds from its conclusion. The players on each team may already have changed many times. Many players may not care about the score or be invested in the result for that reason (among others). Some players may be focused on grinding a particular medal or challenge rather than winning the game. Most will be trying to get as much XP as possible so they can unlock wallhack and a sweet set of greaves. A few won't care about XP at all, and so will be focused on the old-fashioned inherent rewards of doing well -- but because of certain rule changes, these players will avoid going after, say, the flag in a CTF game because it is even more detrimental to those inherent rewards than before. And their 'competitive' experience will meanwhile be compromised by all those players who don't particularly care about the inherent rewards of team success.

At the end of the game these individual players will see wildly different numbers rack up on their screen -- their 'XP'. Maybe they will gain a level. Maybe they'll giddily spend an artificial currency on status rewards that have no scarcity and hence no real status. No one will really lose. No one will really win. There will be no means by which you can know you are better than another player in a given game, because the context is more changeable and the mechanics more arbitrary over a 10-minute match than ever before. And there will be no means by which you can know you are better than another player even over a much longer haul, because even if the arbitrariness smooths out over months of play, there is no metric for skill, only experience (quite literally, 'XP'). Most importantly, there will be no means by which you chart your progress in terms of skill. There are no systems in place to demonstrate you are a better player than you were two months ago, that you improved, that you beat the curve, crept forward, improved relative to your peers. Your peers start to become props, under this philosophy; they are now pinatas with points in them. An eight-player match is eight individuals trying to get a solo high score faster than the seven others; but it's no longer a zero-sum game, and you no longer really beat someone, except in the most threadbare sense, and not in a way that has a shared meaning. All you can do is outpace them to the next helmet. It's a game everyone can win (albeit at different speeds), and not a sport of consequence.

I get that those things don't matter to many, or even most, and certainly not in the heady first week or month of release. But they matter to me. And I'll mourn them. I'll love the core gameplay, I'll delight in learning the new maps and mechanics, I'll have a blast with my friends for a month or two... and then I'll wonder why all the rewards are set up to be extrinsic, and the onus for finding meaning in all those random matches is on me. And I'll wonder why 343 don't care that I, or those like me, played Halo -- rather than other shooters -- in part for those reasons.

(Too long, don't read.)
You know a post is good when it's slurp proof.

Our mindsets are locked, this is why I played Halo, because to me it was a sport. It isn't anymore.

I wish you could reproduce your post in fine calligraphic handwriting and deliver it to 343 personally. I want to see that read, digested, and chewed over by those at 343. Because of those reasons, and I'm sure there'll be some who suggest they aren't as impactful as we're making out, no matter what Halo 4 is like from a gameplay sense, or how good the campaign is, 343 haven't catered to Halo fans like me.

A housemate of mine, someone who's as casual a gamer as you're ever likely to see, someone who doesn't play COD or has never ventured into the MLG playlist just read that in my room and agreed with it 100%. He's a Halo fan, or he was, and he thinks Halo 4 looks shit because of those reasons.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Yep, pretty much. I didn't get to use AR or Suppressor much, but that's how they felt. Suppressor didn't feel very strong.

As the weapon balance in the PAX build was probably very very near final, it appears that 343 has stuck to their guns with all the weapons being strong.

Doesn't sound very useful really. Does it ressemble Halo 2 SMG or Halo CE AR in any way?

Except the magnum from what i saw and hear... Still can't fathom any reason to pick it over the Boltshot or Plasma Pistol.
 

nillapuddin

Member
The investment system is surely not in place in custom games, just like how you only get a flat game complete points for custom games in Reach.

WHOA, TRUE STORY BRO

didnt think about that it was customs, well I guess it doesnt necessarily change the point of my post, but it alters the context of my source material

Thanks for pointing that out

"massive post" :(
compared to most, i certainly didnt think so
 

Karl2177

Member
So my friend went to Target today and was reading the Halo article that they had. Apparently they botched it pretty bad. They had their top 5 Halo maps and their number 2 was Blood Gulch with a picture of Valhalla. They also mixed up the 3 and 4 descriptions and pictures. Can anyone who is subscribed to OXM confirm this?
 

Ramirez

Member
Halo has just been in cryo sleep, it'll wake up on November 6th.

I don't know, you earn XP and it has unlockables, automatic worst game ever material.

Real talk, CoD4 had Halo 4 style minimal loadouts and unlockables, one of the best FPS ever, really think some of you should lay off the panic button.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
So first off, DIDO will NOT be the norm - 343 has said this more than once. There will be playlists where you can join (and/or leave) a game in progress - but there will be plenty of opportunity to participate in the classic "you're in till you're out" style.

More importantly, though - your description of the 'old' Halo - a game where you win at the expense of your opponent, a zero-sum system that requires a loser for every winner... I don't remember that game. Maybe, to a small degree, Halo 2 was that way... but Halo 3 sure wasn't.

I'll agree with you that the whole investment system is silly. I didn't buy any armor at all in Reach before hitting... I can't remember, 5 million cR or something. I didn't even customize colors; I think I was trying to make a statement. And now that I have 100% armor completion, and I STILL have 15 million cR in the bank... well, it's dumb. But that doesn't change the day-to-day gameplay in the slightest. And I don't think it will in Halo 4, either.

I will echo what a number of people have said already - that at least in this early stage, the core gameplay FEELS like Halo. Still.
I want to add a couple thoughts to this. With the usual caveat that I can only base it on some limited play time.

I feel like the impact armor mods and load outs will have on the game is by and large over stated here. Playing it, I came to the concussion that they WILL have circumstantial advantages, but those circumstances are generally limited. Every player will have a time or two when their choice of armor mod or starting weapon gets them a kill they would not have gotten had they made a different selection. But had they made that other selection, they might have picked up a couple different kills, especialy if they adjusted to play according to that selection.

In the end, everyone tweaks their play style a bit based on their selections, everyone gets a couple of kills - if they play accordingly - to reward those selections. They impact the gameplay and outcomes only on the margins.

But 95% of the time, the game is about the core, base elements: gunplay, movement, tactics and execution. In short, the skill of the players. Juices and company are going to demolish as much now as they did before, and it will be because they're better players. It will play like Halo, for the most part. Personally, I'd rather it play like Halo all the time, but frankly even with all these tweaks, because they nailed the core, it will feel better to most here than Reach does.

In a way, the whole system feels like a bait and switch for the masses. There's a big complex way to unlock tons of stuff. Players will pick things they like, change how they play, and perhaps get a few circumstantial kills they wouldn't get otherwise. They'll get XP rained on them and text in the middle of the screen praising them and Spartans unlocking stuff triumphantly to music post game. But so much of the game will NOT be determined by that stuff. The degree to which the game celebrates the stuff you unlock is wildly disproportionate to the impact on the actual game. They want players to feel empowered by their choices and rewarded by their progression - without really empowering players or rewarding their progression enough to alter all but narrow circumstances. In the same way that many players will get sucked into the unlockathon because of the presentation, people who haven't played it (most of us, at this point) think it affects the game more than it does because of that presentation.

Two things do worry me. The global ordnance system will really hurt. Close games will be decided based on a heavy element of chance, and come from behind victories will be less common. And I fear there will be some armor mod/armor ability/weapon combinations that are exploitable; I can think of several in concept. Actually (okay, three worries) some abilities will lead to unpredictable outcomes for players: will the EMP I fire stop that vehicle dead, or not? Let's find out!

Frankly, those issues pale in comparison to what Reach did to the core game.

tl;dr: Everyone needs to chill the fuck out and play it. It's Halo, and it's Fun. Most of my worries evaporated after two games.

Edit: bottom of page. Go figure.
 
Doesn't sound very useful really. Does it ressemble Halo 2 SMG or Halo CE AR in any way?

Except the magnum from what i saw and hear... Still can't fathom any reason to pick it over the Boltshot or Plasma Pistol.

The secondary weapons aren't very good. They are very weak and have very shallow clips (the exception being the Plasma Pistol thanks to its EMP properties). You'll have to do whatever works for you, but I won't have very many loadouts without Firepower. Having a Storm Rifle is a massive advantage over one of the pistols.

I wouldn't make a direct comparison to a pervious weapon, largely because it's a new game with different feeling weapons. Any direct comparison for most of the weapons in this game to a previous one in the series would be delivering poor information.
Wasn't directed at me, but yes. I'm down to be your battle bro.

I thought we were bros.....
 
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