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Halo: Reach Beta Thread

Let's just have some faith in Bungie for the final game. There won't be any drastic changes, but there'll be some important tweaks to every aspect that will probably make it much more balanced, addictive, fair and just overall better, cause I don't think they will just read all these common complaints from the regular halo players and just do nothing about it.

I'm trying to stay positive here dammit!

NameGenerated said:
Here is a funny moment that I enjoyed.

Spotting my targets.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2ql5n2s.jpg[IMG]

Going in for the kills...oh crap, grenade launcher!

[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/smun89.jpg[IMG]

Things are looking bad.

[IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/t9zknp.jpg[IMG]

Bail out!

[IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/14119i0.jpg[IMG]

Like the phoenix rising out of the ashes, I prepare for my triumphant return.

[IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/2prxt1y.jpg[IMG]

*runs out of juice*

[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/6fyxyu.jpg[IMG]


Damn.


:P[/QUOTE]

:lol
 
GhaleonEB said:
But you're missing the point: I, and Eazy and others, are discussing how the base player traits affect the efficacy of grenades, and how those same traits affect player movement around the map. And in combination, how they make the combat much less dynamic as a result.
I understand, I just don't agree.
 
GhaleonEB said:
This clip is a microcosm of everything that's wrong with Reach's gameplay, IMO. The short lifespan, the grenade spam, the repeated deaths after killing a player, charging in to strip the shields (which is more of a problem under the new system than it ever was in the previous Halo games), the boring gunplay. And this is Slayer Pro.
All I see in that clip are morons blindly running into a hallway with all of the other team waiting for them.

And I think Slayer Pro is boring, because sprint is boring. My opinion anyway.

GhaleonEB said:
And in combination, how they make the combat much less dynamic as a result.
I guess Im the only one that likes jetpacks. They open up the whole map and add a lot of what people are saying is missing.
 
Sill4 said:
I understand, I just don't agree.

You don't agree that having to choose optional and different AA's to offset a crippling/slow gameplay design is silly?

DeadFalling said:
I think AA's are fine (besides fucking Armor Lock), and I think grenades will be fixed before retail (they said so in the update...) so I'm not sure why everyone is still bent out of shape about those. Jumping however, I hate no longer having. Another biggie is the fact that vehicles are absolutely useless now. I'm hoping that's only due to Invasions shittiness though. That gametype is a complete mess.

The vehicles are broken. I don't see how a different gametype would help their control/health/stability etc at all.
 
I think AA's are fine (besides fucking Armor Lock), and I think grenades will be fixed before retail (they said so in the update...) so I'm not sure why everyone is still bent out of shape about those. Jumping however, I hate no longer having. Another biggie is the fact that vehicles are absolutely useless now. I'm hoping that's only due to Invasions shittiness though. That gametype is a complete mess.

Deputy Moonman said:
I don't like slayer pro for that very reason.

But it's the only thing people vote for in ranked matches so I have no choice :(


dslgunstar said:
I just cannot get any consistency going with this game.

1300, 1600, 1100, 1700...

+9, -3, +1, -10....

Those arent actual numbers, but you get the jist. t have the consistency of Halo 3, and none of the kills or wins feel as satisfying as a result.

Heh, I'm still the same way too. I just do not understand how to stay consistent every game. I flip flop between being the worst on the team and being the best...



edit:
One more gripe I have with Reach is the fact that there is no ranked objective playlist.... I mean wtf? I hate playing unranked games with all the guests, people that quit every other game, and just generally unchallenging opponents. Reach leaves me no choice though, since there are ZERO objective gametypes in Arena. I mean.... I sorta thought CTF was a big part of Halo... :S
 
DD-11 said:
Reach is great. I love the reduced jump--there is far less bunny hopping around during firefights, which is how it should be. I hope they don't touch it. I actually hope they make it so that your accuracy is shit while jumping, but I know that's not happening.

Why should it be like that?
 
LOL, people complaining about bunny hopping, jumping has been an integral part of the Halo gameplay in all 3 iterations, and now people act like it was some type of detriment to the gameplay, sigh.
 
urk said:
Everybody else was probably just too busy not being able to make any sweet jumps.

2ithq41.jpg
 
DeadFalling said:
One more gripe I have with Reach is the fact that there is no ranked objective playlist.... I mean wtf? I hate playing unranked games with all the guests, people that quit every other game, and just generally unchallenging opponents. Reach leaves me no choice though, since there are ZERO objective gametypes in Arena. I mean.... I sorta thought CTF was a big part of Halo... :S


Have they actually said that there will only be team slayer variants in the arena in the final game? Or are you just assuming there won't be because it's not in the beta?

dslgunstar said:
Ugh. I just went through an entire game without winning a single CQC battle.

The melee system in this beta is just HILARIOUSLY bad. :lol

Fixed that for you :D
 
Ramirez said:
LOL, people complaining about bunny hopping, jumping has been an integral part of the Halo gameplay in all 3 iterations, and now people act like it was some type of detriment to the gameplay, sigh.

This.

Halo has always had ridiculous jumping. It's a part of it.

Oh and here's some more Pro Pipe <3. The enemy was camping their flag, I didn't know of course, so I sent a shot of my Pro Pipe right on over just in case. I'm on the right side of the frame, and the bad guy is on the left.

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=1052092
 
How does wanting to change base player traits detract from the current game Reach is? The suggestions Ghaleon, Eazy, Nutter, etc... are saying will improve the game by a lot.

All I want is a 4 shot DMR and faster base player speed. Currently, the individual side of Halo is missing. You can't out DMR a player anymore with half shields becuase your strafe was so good, those days are now gone. Once you out DMR now, you're pretty much 1 shot and will die if you don't hide. If you speed up the player speed, your jump will also get a little boost in lift and it will be easier to dodge grenades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpTIZStfBUw


Everything else is fantastic. The AA's (aside from Ar.Lock imo) are great, the fact that every gun is now useful unlike Halo 3, etc... Base player traits being changed a little will not change Reach from being it's own game. Also, what happened to the power ups? Are they now gone? That is also something the other Halos greatly achieved. Power ups that you must set out to get so you can't just camp. I know camo is now an AA, but can't there be a Camo power up where it's like Halo 3's (less visible making it stronger than current camo) and lasts for about 20 seconds? It would do wonders on a map like Sword base, especially Slayer pro, where people can just camp. Overshield is also good. It promotes movement.
 
KS Seven X said:
How does wanting to change base player traits detract from the current game Reach is? The suggestions Ghaleon, Eazy, Nutter, etc... are saying will improve the game by a lot.

All I want is a 4 shot DMR and faster base player speed. Currently, the individual side of Halo is missing. You can't out DMR a player anymore with half shields becuase your strafe was so good, those days are now gone. Once you out DMR now, you're pretty much 1 shot and will die if you don't hide. If you speed up the player speed, your jump will also get a little boost in lift and it will be easier to dodge grenades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpTIZStfBUw


Everything else is fantastic. The AA's (aside from Ar.Lock imo) are great, the fact that every gun is now useful unlike Halo 3, etc... Base player traits being changed a little will not change Reach from being it's own game. Also, what happened to the power ups? Are they now gone? That is also something the other Halos greatly achieved. Power ups that you must set out to get so you can't just camp. I know camo is now an AA, but can't there be a Camo power up where it's like Halo 3's (less visible making it stronger than current camo) and lasts for about 20 seconds? It would do wonders on a map like Sword base, especially Slayer pro, where people can just camp. Overshield is also good. It promotes movement.

Changing the DMR to be more like a BR will break Reach. If you guys want 4 shot BRs, there is a game that already has that! As well as old fashion Camo and Overshield. You praise Reach for making each gun useful but making the DMR more like the BR will just bring it back to Halo 3, where it's useful in every situation imaginable.

Some things in Reach should be changed, but it shouldn't be up to just the fans on what needs to be changed, hard cold data from the Beta needs to back up those claims before anything needs to be changed.
 
Wow, is it just the arena games I played tonight or did everyone else experience jet-pack spam? Seems retarded the entire team can jet-pack and reign down grenades all they want. So stupid! No skill involved in that kind of gameplay. So I then have to jet-pack around by myself because everyone else on my team doesn't like the jet-pack and I don't blame them. Hopefully bungie will fix this and nerf the jet-pack "fuel" in the final game. It's not so bad in sword base but powerhouse is awful when this happens.
 
akmcbroom said:
Wow, is it just the arena games I played tonight or did everyone else experience jet-pack spam? Seems retarded the entire team can jet-pack and reign down grenades all they want. So stupid! No skill involved in that kind of gameplay. So I then have to jet-pack around by myself because everyone else on my team doesn't like the jet-pack and I don't blame them. Hopefully bungie will fix this and nerf the jet-pack "fuel" in the final game.

Grenades will be fixed before ship. I don't think the Jet Pack needs a short usage rate but maybe a longer a recharge rate... Maybe.

Also it feels like the AR is too precise from long distance. This is something I run into a lot... a dude with a Jet Pack coming down on me with his AR firing like crazy, and I end up dying.
 
akmcbroom said:
Wow, is it just the arena games I played tonight or did everyone else experience jet-pack spam? Seems retarded the entire team can jet-pack and reign down grenades all they want. So stupid! No skill involved in that kind of gameplay. So I then have to jet-pack around by myself because everyone else on my team doesn't like the jet-pack and I don't blame them. Hopefully bungie will fix this and nerf the jet-pack "fuel" in the final game.

1) Needler.
2) Fish in barrel.
3) ???
4) Profit.
 
SnakeXs said:
1) Needler.
2) Fish in barrel.
3) ???
4) Profit.
The one weapon I go to when I first hear the jet-packs. Thing is, only works on one, maybe two before you got the rest of their team all over you ass. By this time the needlers are either gone or depleted and then your waiting for them to respawn. So it's back to the dmr trying to pick them off before their buddies show up and grenade spam.
 
urk said:
Everybody else was probably just too busy not being able to make any sweet jumps.
Don't mistake being unable to enjoy oneself while playing with being unable to play well.

urk said:
I'm not saying all of the feedback here has been throwaway, but stuff like this isn't exactly what I'd call thoughtful analysis and coherent feedback. Dial it down. That's all I'm asking. If I want to wade through mud and muck, I can get it up to my waist a thousand other places.
Glad you appreciate my thoughtful analysis, jerk.

You're game blows, make it fun.
 
I find myself strafing while running backwards often in Reach. I do the same at low level games in Halo 3 as well. Everyone is trying to get in those beatdowns. For some it seems to be the only sure way they'll get a kill. People whose shooting skills aren't up to snuff. Sprint doesn't help the situation either :/
 
dslgunstar said:
Could my elite, highly-trained, genetically modified super-soldier PLEASE learn how to jump over 3 foot ledges Bungie?

Thanks!
To be fair, the armor IS pretty heavy.

The jump doesn't really bother me that much. Yeah, I miss being able to do sweet crouch jumps to get to various locations or cut corners and all that. But it's hardly a deal breaker for me. And if I want to get places I can just pick the jet pack. If I could jump higher on Powerhouse, one of the jet pack's major advantages would go away.

I feel like I should mention that despite some of the issues I've been running into, the only situations where I get frustrated as a result of the actual gameplay is when I have to play an objective game on Sword Base. Any other frustration I run into is a direct result of other people's stupidity. Like when I'm playing Invasion and I'm the only one trying to attack/defend the objectives and everyone else is on some cliff shooting the DMR/Needle Rifle, or when SWAT or Invasion Slayer doesn't get voted so the mongrels that actually like those gametypes just quit. Not sure why those people are always on my team.

Speaking of which, do GAF'ers run a lot of 8-16 player parties by chance? I feel like I could have more fun playing with people here instead of the random denizens of Xbox Live.
 
For invasion Slayer, make it so if your team captures a territory, that territory becomes another spawn option while the drop countdown goes on.

Makes it actually worth capturing the points rather than letting the other team do it and then bum rushing them for the goodies before the drop comes.

Means whoever caps the point will probably get the goodies. Which is the way it should be. And stops people ending up havign to spawn a mile from the territory just because they are a spartan and the point happens to be under the covie spawn.
 
XenoRaven said:
Speaking of which, do GAF'ers run a lot of 8-16 player parties by chance? I feel like I could have more fun playing with people here instead of the random denizens of Xbox Live.
Been privy to a few big parties recently (far more fun than randoms, unless Dax is firing grenades into your face :lol) - I sent you a FR - If I get in any tonight and you're on I'll send you an invite.
 
Tashi0106 said:
I just don't know why they happen so often. I figured that the inclusion of hitscan would reduce it if not eliminate it completely but something else is happening that has increased its occurrence. Something is different.
It'd be great if a Bungie netcode guy could explain it at some point, but in the meantime I'll venture a guess: in order to make the netcode more palatable for everyone, they've increased the window of time in which kills are counted, allowing the client even more input into what's happening. So you fire your headshot, and the delay you're feeling is the round trip time for the host to find out what the other player did in the same 'moment' (in game time, not 'actual' time). If he discovers that the client also shot at the head during that window, it's declared a tie. Both players were acting instantly on the information available to them, but the one that was in, oh, say, Europe was doing so a fraction of a second later, and you have to wait for his Xbox's account of what happened before the issue is settled by the host.

I'd really love to fly you guys out to Europe to play a few games of Halo 3 from my point of view before you start telling me that it feels so much more immediate and satisfying. Because if you're on this side of the Atlantic, Reach feels greatly superior in that regard.
 
dslgunstar said:
Ugh. I just went through an entire game without winning a single CQC battle.

The melee system in this game is just HILARIOUSLY bad. :lol
So...because you suck at it, it's bad?

Really the only thing wrong with the melee system is the double-tap kill, but that's fixed for retail already so it's all good.
 
GhaleonEB said:
This clip is a microcosm of everything that's wrong with Reach's gameplay, IMO. The short lifespan, the grenade spam, the repeated deaths after killing a player, charging in to strip the shields (which is more of a problem under the new system than it ever was in the previous Halo games), the boring gunplay. And this is Slayer Pro.
Uh, I don't see it. More than anything, I see user error at work here, with a lot of (repeated) mistakes of judgement. I'm not saying I wouldn't have made the same or similar mistakes, but watching this film over would have made me shake my head at my own performance, not the game's.

Here's what I would have been thinking:

1. My teammates were bunched as fuck, which encourages grenade throwing. But despite this, and despite repeated deaths on my part over the course of the beta from grenades, I decided to stay close to my team in a tight corridor, within distances spanned by the diameter of a frag grenade, in an area where opposing players would be throwing downhill. Cool.
2. When I popped my head around the corner, I immediately saw a sniper trail fly down (never mind that my teammates were charging underneath a guy who can rain down on them even without that weapon), and yet I still felt the need to peek up at High Vent to check? I'm not sure why I scoped to do so; it was unnecessary and actually hurt my situational awareness.
3. A grenade then exploded in my face. For the sake of argument, let's pretend that was completely unexpected under the circumstances. Of course, if I hadn't pressed forward in spite of an immediate and present danger (the sniper), this might not have happened. The instant it did, I should have got to cover; I should have strafed left. Instead, I backed into a wall and tried to get my own desperate grenade off, leaving me exposed for as many as two vital seconds, and thus dead. Lesson: I should never have been there, shouldn't have stayed, and I reacted badly when attacked.
4. Knowing that the area was hot, what did I do on spawn? Went back there, to the same spot, with the same approach, the same weapon, and with the same proximity to my teammates. Which is disappointing, because I could have hopped out onto the window ledge when I spawned to try and flank the other team, getting shots at them before they rounded the corner, and from a place where they couldn't easily grenade me and my equally confined teammates. Or I could have found another (longer) road, with a better sight line, and thus confounded Blue team's expectations. Instead, I conformed to them.
5. So Blue team knew we were there and were repeatedly charging the spot. What did I do? I stayed tight to a blind corner where I couldn't see what was coming and stayed static there, inviting attack, and reacting to the situation rather than acting upon it. At every moment I was at a suboptimal range for the weapon I was holding. Not once did I check behind me or look for another route. When one of Blue team eventually did make the smart move and skipped a frag at me and my teammate, I was forced to run forward into trouble because of my poor positioning, and died from a grenade in almost the same spot I did last time. There was a lesson to be learned, but instead I kept banging my head against the wall and then complained when it continued to hurt.

I'm not saying these things to be a dick, and I think issues with the melee and grenades absolutely encourage the kind of behaviour Blue team were exhibiting, but there were so many other things you could have done that would have better suited the situation, and even if you felt you had to keep pushing that corridor no matter what, you should have been standing further back, maximizing the usefulness of the gun you have by catering to its range (and a better, longer sight line). Why continue to squat in a small corridor hugging your teammates for warmth when it worked out so badly the first time? Blue team had higher ground, they had better weapons (sniper and sword, neither put to use well), and they knew where you were. You are complaining because you and your teammates waited to die in the same spot over and over.
 
NJ Shlice said:
Ugh. 5 daily rankings and still no division. WTF.

I finally received a confirmation in-game last night, after my 5th daily ranking, that i had qualified for a rank.

I've not yet seen it appear in-game or on the website though :p
 
Tashi0106 said:
I'm gonna hop tonight too and see if I can get some simultaneous kills. It has happened to me with melee as well. Like, I get a headshot medal and he gets a melee medal. I also really dislike simultaneous kills. I just don't know why they happen so often. I figured that the inclusion of hitscan would reduce it if not eliminate it completely but something else is happening that has increased its occurrence. Something is different.

Shake Appeal said:
It'd be great if a Bungie netcode guy could explain it at some point

I'll try - it's probably as close as you'll get unless Froman turns up :lol

Basically like in H3, Reach has something called client trust. This is where the host will take the client's word that something happened, providing certain conditions were met. Whilst this value varies for different aspects of the game, in Halo 3 this window was approximately 300ms as a generalisation. This was one of the major improvements over H2, and it's why the Sniper Rifle will always count off host if the connection is good. It's not like the days of Coagulation where you would shoot someone across the map and watch the bullet have no effect. Halo 2 had basically no client trust, so from the host's perspective you would cleanly miss with the Sniper Rifle, and it would ignore anything your console said to the contrary.

The main reason for the larger amount of simultaneous kills in the Reach beta is the change to the melee system, where both players will almost always start with the same amount of health (as attacks first set the shield to zero, whereas H3 has damage continue over).

The second is that the window of opportunity to get the attack in is too high. Urk has already commented on the melee attacks in the BWU but the window of opportunity for headshots and bullets is also very high. Indeed I would say that in the beta, the window of opportunity for bullets is much higher than it was in H3, where it was quite hard to achieve.

Another contributing factor is the lower latency due to improved matchmaking, so more players can take advantage of the window for bullets. If my latency is 20ms and the window is 70ms, then I have 5x more time to react than if my latency was 60ms.
 
It's no wonder Ghaleon has so much rage against the Beta. his example is the result of incredibly bad players blindly charging into the same hallway over and over again. This isn't the result of a bad game, rather terrible players.

Yes the game needs tweaking but to claim it is unlike the other Halo games is just unfounded and silly. This is the Halo game that Bad Company is to the Battlefield franchise in my opinion.
 
Photolysis said:
Indeed I would say that in the beta, the window of opportunity for bullets is much higher than it was in H3, where it was quite hard to achieve.
Yeah, this was my thought specifically on the traded headshots Eazy and Tashi were complaining about.

Frankly, if they change these windows dramatically for the final release, it's going to make Reach a lot less enjoyable for me, and for all the hundreds of thousands of others who aren't accustomed to having less than 50ms to host.
 
Meus Renaissance said:
Hardly anyone uses mics since Party Chat was introduced. Sucks


Karram said:

Disgraceful. It's killing Live for me. I appreciate and enjoy the idea of meeting someone Online, a fellow gamer, and having a conversation. Often we continue to play with each other on Live, and eventually you develop a list of gamer friends who you always squad up with in competitive matches. With this Party Chat feature being in every playlist, no one uses their mics in games anymore. Hardly anyone.

I don't agree with the justification that "we don't want to hear 14 year olds screaming". That's what the mute feature is therefore! There needs to be something done because it is killing any chance of a community being developed as it literally segregates people. Half the time in Party Chat, people are in different games. This effectively means that people are choosing to refuse to communicate together with others in their game, in their lobby. It's a complete reversal of what Live was about. You don't feel connected to anyone.
 
Frankly, if they change these windows dramatically for the final release, it's going to make Reach a lot less enjoyable for me, and for all the hundreds of thousands of others who aren't accustomed to having less than 50ms to host.

Yeah, the downside is if you change the static values then we could end up taking 1 step forwards and 2 steps back from H3.

The ideal solution I see is if the window adapted based on your latency. So it would still work when you play with people around the world, but wouldn't give you an insane amount of time to react in local games.
 
Photolysis said:
The second is that the window of opportunity to get the attack in is too high. Urk has already commented on the melee attacks in the BWU but the window of opportunity for headshots and bullets is also very high. Indeed I would say that in the beta, the window of opportunity for bullets is much higher than it was in H3, where it was quite hard to achieve.

Another contributing factor is the lower latency due to improved matchmaking, so more players can take advantage of the window for bullets. If my latency is 20ms and the window is 70ms, then I have 5x more time to react than if my latency was 60ms.
So Urk's said the melee window will be decreased but what about the bullet window? Surely the improvements to the netcode, the improvements that are significantly lowering latency, means such a large window is unnecessary. But In Halo 3 lan, where there is no latency, these simultaneous shots still didn't occur with nearly the same frequency people are experiencing in Reach with latency. Clearly that window has been significantly increased from 3 as you said.

I appreciate your explanation.
 
GhaleonEB said:
This clip is a microcosm of everything that's wrong with Reach's gameplay, IMO. The short lifespan, the grenade spam, the repeated deaths after killing a player, charging in to strip the shields (which is more of a problem under the new system than it ever was in the previous Halo games), the boring gunplay. And this is Slayer Pro.

Tweaking the grenades and fixing the double melee will only partially resolve the core problems with the gameplay design in Reach.
Yep.
Deputy Moonman said:
The people who miss the jumps and what not, the jetpack is the jump. I use that thing religiously now. It doesn't have to take you a mile into the sky every time you use it. I've grown accustomed to the range of the jump in Reach and compensate accordingly with light taps of the jetpack. The jetpack is giving me the ability to do everything I loved to do in Halo3, as far as game physics and stuff. Stop using Sprint. Stop using Armor Lock. Stop using Camo. Jetpack is freaking amazing.
The jet pack does not make up for the small jump height, nor sprint for the slow player speed.
EazyB said:
Agreed, the reduced speed, acceleration, and jump speed really remove one of the things that differentiates Halo from other shooters. How 1v1 BR firefights would move up and around the geometry. How you could easily maneuver around the many planes of the level to get a better line of sight to your target.

In Reach, even on more open maps like Powerhouse, people don't move around the map in this distinct fashion. Instead, like all other shooters, you skate around the path you're set on, relying on stairs or the occasional lift as gimped means of added a 3rd dimension. Of course the jetpack offers a way of moving in a more interesting fashion during firefights and getting lines of sight but it's far from the standard gameplay element it once was. Hell, you're even forced to crouch on the ground if you wish to be most accurate.

There are many things I don't like about Reach's covie gameplay but the movement and jumps are more Halo than anything else in the game and evade is a very dynamic and fun improvement upon that. The strength of their shields and how quickly they replenish do a lot to undermine everything good about the covie gameplay as it results in clusterfuck of melee and stickies.

Spartans are the main instrument to be used in Reach's MP so the maps will undoubtedly be tailored (jumps and such) to their default mechanics. I just can't see maps like Midship and Lockout ever working under such a system. I could just reduce the gravity and increase the player speed to match that of previous Halos but beyond being limited to custom games, I fear every map that comes out of Bungie won't work properly in these conditions.
Yeah, Reach is way too grounded, and that's not something that I come to play a Halo game for.
Thagomizer said:
I have the opposite feeling- with the exception of the spawning system, I think that Invasion is pretty well balanced now that people more or less know what they are doing.

I also have no problems with the vehicles, except that the Wraith is once again a paper tiger and the Scorpion is apparently made out of plastic explosives and balsa wood.
There's your problem. Invasion is most certainly not well-balanced in its current form.

Also, there are two things Bungie needs to remove for the final game:
1. Fall damage. It, like the new overheat for the warthog, adds nothing and only detracts from the fun. It needs to go (and so does the overheat on the warthog).
2. Remove the sword-block mechanic. I can't defend myself from a shotgun blast at close range, so why should it be different than the sword? I'm finding myself using the sword less and less because of this new mechanic.

Also, I notice that sometimes, and I don't know if this is a glitch or intentional, but when I kill an enemy, they have shields over their bodies. I'll try to get a video of this later.
 
EazyB said:
So Urk's said the melee window will be decreased but what about the bullet window? Surely the improvements to the netcode, the improvements that are significantly lowering latency, means such a large window is unnecessary. But In Halo 3 lan, where there is no latency, these simultaneous shots still didn't occur with nearly the same frequency people are experiencing in Reach with latency. Clearly that window has been significantly increased from 3 as you said.

I appreciate your explanation.
Netcode has lowered latency, but there is still a massive disparity in latency between some players, depending on where the host is located. If the host is in the Pacific Northwest, you are likely getting 20-30ms to host, whereas a player in Europe is getting 150-200ms, let's say. Halo: Reach is waiting to see what that player did with the information available to them at the time it was available, and if they acted well (got the headshot), it trusts them more than Halo 3 did and registers their headshot as well as yours if it occurred within a certain window. Result: tie. Changing the window would benefit you, but hurt the European.

If the situation is reversed and the host is in Paris, I am getting, say, 80ms to him, whereas you are getting, say, 200ms (and bitching about the French and their 'broken' connections, God, why do the French suck so much, can't they afford le broadband?!??), changing the window and the level of client trust would actually hurt your chances of getting headshot that actually register.

Of course, since the Halo host record over time favours America (largely because there are more American players), changing it would, over time, benefit you more than it would hurt you.

But frankly, on behalf of all those other players who don't have the good fortune to be born in the land of the free, I hope it stays just as it is. Learn to love the tie! It's the fairest result!
 
Sill4 said:
I know a lot of people like the jumps, and I'm fine with that. If Bungie were to go and tweak the jumps, I'd be a tiny bit disappointed personally, but I would understand why they do it and why many people want it. I realize that there are different types of things in Halo that appeal to different people.

For me, Halo has not always been about multiplayer. That was ALWAYS secondary. The flow of quick FPS combat and vehicle action against the most fun AI enemies in any game I've ever played are what Halo was always about.

A lot of the people here didn't start out with CE, and some only started with Halo 3, and while there's nothing wrong with that, these people need to keep an open mind and remember that not all Halo fans are Super Duper MLG Players who's idea of fun is an all BR battle on Midship.


My bad, I just skimmed the post like a tard.

I put 100's of hours into Halo 1
probably closer to thousands
and from a multiplayer perspective, that game felt closer to Halo 3, than it does to Reach. Im also worried for 4v4 gameplay. Maps like Guardian and Midship wouldnt work from a gameplay perspective anymore, infact any 'abstract' maps wouldnt work from a thematic perspective, I hope all the maps dont end up like Powerhouse.

I must say from a thematic viewpoint, I love Boneyard, I spent a good amount of time just looking at the Commonwealth in Theatre mode, the attention to detail is amazing.

Back on what I was saying though, Eazy's posts are spot on, I also love how he snuck a beta code in his first one. :lol I agree with the second post aswell, Reach seems like a deliberate distancing from the Halo mechanics of old, this seems to appeal more to the people who dont play Halo much. Also Ghaleons nade post is spot on!

Shake im from the UK, and even I think the window for bullet ties is too wide. Bullet ties work great when theres lag, but if im playing fellow UK'ers pretty much every battle ends in one. :lol
 
Shake Appeal said:
Netcode has lowered latency, but there is still a massive disparity in latency between some players, depending on where the host is located. If the host is in the Pacific Northwest, you are likely getting 20-30ms to host, whereas a player in Europe is getting 150-200ms, let's say. Halo: Reach is waiting to see what that player did with the information available to them at the time it was available, and if they acted well (got the headshot), it trusts them more than Halo 3 did and registers their headshot as well as yours if it occurred within a certain window. Result: tie. Changing the window would benefit you, but hurt the European.

If the situation is reversed and the host is in Paris, I am getting, say, 80ms to him, whereas you are getting, say, 200ms (and bitching about the French and their 'broken' connections, God, why do the French suck so much, can't they afford le broadband?!??), changing the window and the level of client trust would actually hurt your chances of getting headshot that actually register.

Of course, since the Halo host record over time favours America (largely because there are more American players), changing it would, over time, benefit you more than it would hurt you.

But frankly, on behalf of all those other players who don't have the good fortune to be born in the land of the free, I hope it stays just as it is. Learn to love the tie! It's the fairest result!
I'd rather they focus their efforts on regional filtering than casting this bullshit over every single player. Sure regional filtering won't work all the time but it the path the should go down, studying and improving upon it; not ways to introduce looser gunplay feedback for everyone.
 
Shake Appeal said:
Your left stick, click it.

This. It makes a huge difference to your mobility once you learn how to not receive fall damage. As an added bonus, Sprint becomes even more useful than before. In situations on Boneyard where you, say, spawn in the hold of the ship and want to jump down to get a territory, that extra bit of shield may make a big difference, too.
 
BadAss84 said:
I finally received a confirmation in-game last night, after my 5th daily ranking, that i had qualified for a rank.

I've not yet seen it appear in-game or on the website though :p

Same here. Got the confirmation in-game last night. Still nothing.
 
UltimaPooh said:
Changing the DMR to be more like a BR will break Reach. If you guys want 4 shot BRs, there is a game that already has that! As well as old fashion Camo and Overshield. You praise Reach for making each gun useful but making the DMR more like the BR will just bring it back to Halo 3, where it's useful in every situation imaginable.

Some things in Reach should be changed, but it shouldn't be up to just the fans on what needs to be changed, hard cold data from the Beta needs to back up those claims before anything needs to be changed.

How will it break Reach? A shotgun, Sword, Hammer, Plasma Pistol will still kill a user in close range, a Sniper, Plasma Launcher & Focus Rifle will still beat it at long range, and the Needle Rifle (1 less shot) will still be it's equal at mid range like it currently is. The AR should be beefed up some to compensate as well. This will speed up the game a little. Also, not everyone will 4 shot. In reality, most people won't 4 shot especially with the increased speed I proposed, only the most skilled will. Again, I think you're one of those people who believed the Halo 3 BR was over powered when it clearly wasn't. The Halo 3 BR was a utility weapon that was a great starting weapon because it can help users defend themselves off spawn but still lost to weapons whose main role was at at that certain range. The only time the BR was able to dominate was when you paired that skilled user to people who couldn't aim for crap, in which case they should have lost. They shouldn't be guaranteed kills just because the game is rock, paper, scissors.

And no there isn't a game that has that. The BR in halo 3 isn't hit scan, isn't 3x zoom, isn't a single shot weapon, has more auto aim, and doesn't have bloom. Not to mention, that you implied that making the DMR 4 shot will make the game Halo 3, which it clearly won't when you have an array of new things, such as, AAs, different maps, different guns, fall damage, health packs, a new melee system, different nades, as well as less of a jump.

Again, what's wrong withe the over shield or camo power ups? They were great ways of getting users to move around the map and fight for them. Without them, one can camp in certain spots. That is also part of what made Halo, Halo. Can you imagine how much better Sword Base would be with those in place bottom middle or in a place that will draw them out of their position? There wouldn't be complaints of being unable to combat the campers during Slayer pro and there wouldn't be an unbreakable set up.

And I still fail to understand how wanting those things will make Reach, not Reach?
 
Shake Appeal said:
Netcode has lowered latency, but there is still a massive disparity in latency between some players, depending on where the host is located. If the host is in the Pacific Northwest, you are likely getting 20-30ms to host, whereas a player in Europe is getting 150-200ms, let's say. Halo: Reach is waiting to see what that player did with the information available to them at the time it was available, and if they acted well (got the headshot), it trusts them more than Halo 3 did and registers their headshot as well as yours if it occurred within a certain window. Result: tie. Changing the window would benefit you, but hurt the European.

It's a tricky situation. If Bungie just set these values far lower then international games will go back to being like Halo 2 for those on a different continent to the host.

One other thing I forgot to mention is that there are 2 values for client trust, or at least it would seem that there are 2 values:

1) A contest value - at what point the game will still accept actions even if you're already dead. Increasing this value means more simultaneous deaths.

2) A maximum value - how much latency the game will accept and still take your word that you hit someone, but it will ignore actions if you've already been killed. Increasing this doesn't lead to more simultaneous deaths but still allows you to hit other players reliably (though you'll likely lose any 1v1 contest).

For example, in H3 if an Australian guy snipes someone on a UK host, and no one shoots him, that shot should count. However if someone spotted our Aussie friend and sniped him before his shot gets registered, then it likely wouldn't count.

The question is basically where do you draw the line? You can't cater for latency forever. Even if Bungie are able to make it so these values change based on your latency, which wouldn't result in massive windows for local players, at some point it will start having negative effects on gameplay.

At the end of the day, regional games will always be better. Prefer good connection helps a huge amount in finding local games and I think it's something people should be encouraged to use more if they really want fair competitive games. If you want to play with people internationally then at some point you'll need to accept that it won't ever be as fair as playing with people in the same country.
 
With Bungie banning quitters so harshly, can they also do something about betrayers? Last night I got betrayed by 2 seperate players for the Sniper in one game (obiously couldnt boot either of them). I think Bungie should keep a track of how many times you betray and do something if you betray above a certain threshold.

My very over the top idea would be to now allow them to pick up power weapons, that would make betraying pointless for them. :lol

I know for multiple reasons, this is probably the stupidest idea ever
 
EazyB said:
I'd rather they focus their efforts on regional filtering than casting this bullshit over every single player. Sure regional filtering won't work all the time but it the path the should go down, studying and improving upon it; not ways to introduce looser gunplay feedback for everyone.
"This bullshit" was in Halo 3, too, just to a lesser or less noticeable extent. And it doesn't make gunplay feel looser to me (which is not to say there aren't times I shriek "there's no way that was simultaneous" at the screen, but we all get a little crazy when playing). I find just about every action involving aiming, firing, and landing shots with a gun more satisfying in Reach than in 3. That may well be a minority opinion, I don't know; there's certainly a strong split in this thread.

I do know that every last European I play with who also played a lot of Halo 3 thinks the netcode in Reach is superb, and feels the game is being fairer to their experience than it ever was previously. I'd be very disappointed if Bungie did anything to concede to the demands of the players who have usually had all it their way before now. I appreciate it's annoying to get a tie when you feel you would have won outright in Halo 3, but imagine for a second how great it feels to get any sort of result when you're used to losing those tight decisions most of the time in Halo 3.

And honestly, I think simultaneous beatdowns occur with about the frequency they did in 3, and simultaneous shootouts have only increased by maybe one incident per game, and usually in SWAT, where they regularly happened before anyway.
 
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