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[bobs...onGaf]

Nobody is saying that they'll be overlooked or that they don't have legitimate concerns. I'm saying if I want my criticism with a side of verbal diarrhea, I can get the same experience elsewhere.

For example, let's try this same response out with a slightly different tact:

"Nobody is saying that they'll be overlooked or that they don't have legitimate concerns, moron. I'm saying if I want my half ass, shitty criticism with a side of abject stupidity, I can get it from much more intelligent people."

Same info, different delivery. I prefer the former, that's all.

Ghal's use of language just seemed to be throwaway speech, rather than directly aimed at Bungie. Honestly we all love the fact that your here listening and giving us information. I dont think any Halo fan can possibly say anything bad towards you guys, its the gameplay which annoys people and thats where the explicitives are aimed, not at you guys. That being said rather than giving vague critism sprinked with swear words, im going to try and give a proper 'report' of feedback when I have the time.

The gameplay concerns are valid, and the gameplay which irks people is by design, so I dont expect it to change, and I guess thats cool because it will please a bunch of people. I would just like to offer my critism in a constructive way, and ill wait till I have the time to do so. Any whining from HaloGaf isnt just manbabies whinging for the sake of it, the guys here genuinly know and love Halo. Speaking for myself, I probably just havent communicated my problems in the right way.

 

[Klocker]

Most people bitch because things are different - a few do reasonably defend their points but there's an equal amount of "This isn't the way it was before" without the "And this is why it should be the way it was before". Bungie will obviously listen to some complaints, while ignoring others that - mainly on things they feel where changed for a very good reason.

exactly... as Bungie said:

Of course, this is just a small sampling of the stuff we’ve already identified and plan on addressing in one way or another. If you have an issue you don’t see on the list, there’s no need to go full on forum rage (though we do have a thread for that). That said, you shouldn’t expect your every whim to make the grade. We’re trained professionals. We got this.

 

[Diablohead]

Happy time! triple kill and cap on Invasion by yours truely

Reposting my list of desired changes/tweaks for Urk

Here is a list of changes I think would really help.

-increase jump height for Spartans
-give vehicles more health, because in Invasion they get destroyed by anyone good in the final tier
-change loadouts in Invasion, you shouldn't spawn with a Pro Pipe, and Elites should get a Needle Rifle in the first tier
-you should spawn as soon as the timer stops beeping
-sprint time should be slightly increased
-armor lock should only be usable once before it has to recharge
-remove the Spartan Laser from the spawn room near the extraction point in Boneyard

also one major thing that needs to be changed is the speed of the vehicles, well at least the Warthog, Ghost, and Banshee. All 3 are too slow and get stuck by plasma grenades way too easily.

You can find a nerfle if you look on the ground a bit, I think there is actually 2 of them.

 

[MrDaravon]

Everything is perfect. Just one thing: Do something about the Fucking Armor Lock. Not only it gets super irritating, it actually break the flow of the game imo.

:lol

I think quite it a few, if not most people have provided pretty specific feedback. The problem is now that most of that has been done, it's degenerated into circular arguments about why other people's opinions are wrong, why it does/doesn't feel like Halo/CoD etc.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

Perfect example of the type of wording that is specifically not wanted. Bravo.

ِAlright.

Dear Bungie,
After playing the recent Beta of your latest title Halo: Reach, it has come to my attention that the Armor Lock ability is the only thing that needs to be removed or heavenly tweaked. It is the only thing that broke the flow of the game. And it constantly costs high level of frustration. However, I have to say that everything else works perfectly fine. I am enjoying the Beta a lot. And thank you for your hard work.

Best Wishes,
Gomu Gomu.

 

[Tashi]

Make a thread to post complaints. You specify the rules of how the complaints should be presented.

I'd do it but my bad english wouldn't help create a decent enough OP

Lol why? This thread should be all things Reach Beta. Lets just hold some decent discussion like we usually do. Starting a new thread isn't the solution. Look, we all want Reach to be the best game it can be. Think about what you want to say, say it clearly and try to keep the "fuck Bungie", "Fucking retarded", "piece of shit", "dumb fucks" stuff out.

I'm gonna try myself to present my few complaints in a direct clear way that encourages discussion.

 

[Flipyap]

I don't have anything constructive to add, so I'll just dump some pictures here, if that's okay.
Play ball!

 

[Slightly Live]

I've kept most of feedback here to limited bursts here and there. I'm working on a piece for FUD that will feature my thoughts on the positives and negatives and everything in between but, honestly, I'm still not happy coming to any firm conclusions.

One day I might have a certain opinion about a feature or mechanic and the next day it may have shifted slightly. I'm finding it slightly difficult to keep my thoughts coherently stable on a wide range of issues that the Beta brings up.

 

[Shanadeus]

Played some more invasion games and I'm loving it, map does feel a bit big though and vehicles don't feel particular useful due to the very cluttered landscape.

I'm "AdmirableCow" in case anyone wanna play right now.

 

[AwesomeSyrup]

Happy time! triple kill and cap on Invasion by yours truely


You can find a nerfle if you look on the ground a bit, I think there is actually 2 of them.

I know that, but the Spartans spawn with DMRs which seem a little unfair when the Elites best starting weapon is the Plasma Repeater. The Elites are already at a disadvantage spawning in the open where they can picked off really quick by anyone good with the DMR. The needle rifle would make about as even as possible.

 

[op_ivy]

my only honest to god complaint, or disappointment, lies with the vehicles.

its not because they have been nerfed, or toned down. they certainly needed that from halo 3 imo, where they were VERY hard to deal with without a power weapon. take the warthog for an example (that fits the pattern with most of the other vehicles); i LIKE that the warthog chain gun takes time to start going AND that it overheats. i dont like that the turning speed of the turret is stupid slow. I also don't like the super weighty physics while driving it. its just not fun to operate now.

every other issue IMO is confirmed to be fixed or being fixed, something thats obviously a work in progress, or just nitpicking details.

 

[pringles]

How do you get your division to actually show up in Arena? I've seen a few guys with division stars next to their name.

 

[Gui_PT]

Lol why? This thread should be all things Reach Beta. Lets just hold some decent discussion like we usually do. Starting a new thread isn't the solution. Look, we all want Reach to be the best game it can be. Think about what you want to say, say it clearly and try to keep the "fuck Bungie", "Fucking retarded", "piece of shit", "dumb fucks" stuff out.

I'm gonna try myself to present my few complaints in a direct clear way that encourages discussion.

Problem is people aren't doing that. Still think it'd be a good idea, but oh well.

 

[Trasher]

Problem is people aren't doing that. Still think it'd be a good idea, but oh well.

And what makes you think people will be more civil in a different thread? It's not a good idea. Don't split things up. This is exactly what this thread is for.

Something I would like to see changed: Not flying all over the place when colliding with another player. It also makes melee battles quite random at times. I never had this complaint whenever I ran in to someone playing Halo 3. It's quite annoying. =/

 

[Gui_PT]

And what makes you think people will be more civil in a different thread? It's not a good idea. Don't split things up. This is exactly what this thread is for.

Guess I expect too much from people then

 

[The Librarian]

-give vehicles more health, because in Invasion they get destroyed by anyone good in the final tier

I don't think this will solve the problem of vehicular combat in Reach. In my opinion, as I said before, Bungie has done an excellent job of tightening up the sandbox when it comes to infantry, but the sandbox for anti-vehicle weapons leaves a lot to be desired. The Spartan Laser and grenade launcher starts need to go. Ask yourself, "What purpose does the Spartan Laser serve that's not already filled by another weapon?" I think the plasma launcher would be an excellent addition if Bungie would remove the lock-on for both vehicles and infantry.

 

[Trasher]

Guess I expect too much from people then

Well this is the internet. Are you new?

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Guess I expect too much from people then

Making a new thread is like a open invite to all of NeoGaf. Its probably best if the HaloGaf regulars do this. Especially when you consider the fact that nost people wouldnt read the OP anyway.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I'm not saying all of the feedback here has been throwaway, but stuff like this isn't exactly what I'd call thoughtful analysis and coherent feedback. Dial it down. That's all I'm asking. If I want to wade through mud and muck, I can get it up to my waist a thousand other places.

Well, I did say I'd dialed it down, not eliminated it.

But yeah, that was a bit much, because while I have been vocal, I try to make my criticism about the game, not the people who made it. So I apologize for that.

I was angry, because I love Halo's vehicle play, and was really, really looking forward to it, and it is pretty broken after being nearly perfect in Halo 3. And I think the response here has been very typical GAF. Though I've joined the moaners a lot more than I usually do.

Ghal's use of language just seemed to be throwaway speech, rather than directly aimed at Bungie.

Correct. I don't use profanity at all in real life, and usually for emphasis on GAF, rather than vitriol. Though that's hard to tell and I was less than contrite in my response.

 

[AwesomeSyrup]

I don't think this will solve the problem of vehicular combat in Reach. In my opinion, as I said before, Bungie has done an excellent job of tightening up the sandbox when it comes to infantry, but the sandbox for anti-vehicle weapons leaves a lot to be desired. The Spartan Laser and grenade launcher starts need to go. Ask yourself, "What purpose does the Spartan Laser serve that's not already filled by another weapon?" I think the plasma launcher would be an excellent addition if Bungie would remove the lock-on for both vehicles and infantry.

I agree on removing the lock on for the plasma launcher, but with the spartan laser, usually once someone has fired it once they get shot because the big red laser gives away their position. So if it took two or three shots from the laser to take out a Hog or tank then I don't the laser would be near as much of a problem. I think the laser needs something added though where you have to keep the the reticule on the vehicle for 3 or 4 seconds before you can even begin to charge it. I think that would also help remove problems caused by the laser.

 

[JohnIIVII]

How do you get your division to actually show up in Arena? I've seen a few guys with division stars next to their name.

I believe you need 5 days worth of daily scores. Get you daily score by playing at least 3 games a day in The Arena.

 

[zero margin]

Something I would like to see changed: Not flying all over the place when colliding with another player. It also makes melee battles quite random at times. I never had this complaint whenever I ran in to someone playing Halo 3. It's quite annoying. =/

This I have noticed as well, I almost grenaded an entire room of teammates because someone bumped me to the left and the grenade hit the wall instead of out the door as intended. Not to mention it gets disorienting sometimes in melee encounters because you get pushed so much and lose the person you're trying to hit.

I know H3 had collision detection but this feels like bumper cars at times.

 

[The Librarian]

I agree on removing the lock on for the plasma launcher, but with the spartan laser, usually once someone has fired it once they get shot because the big red laser gives away their position. So if it took two or three shots from the laser to take out a Hog or tank then I don't the laser would be near as much of a problem. I think the laser needs something added though where you have to keep the the reticule on the vehicle for 3 or 4 seconds before you can even begin to charge it. I think that would also help remove problems caused by the laser.

There are many ways Bungie can make the laser a lot more fair rather than just removing it. Removing the scope and making it so, once you start charging it you won't be able to prevent yourself from firing it (including switching to another weapon then switching back), I think would be a fair compromise.

 

[Butane123]

I think the plasma launcher would be an excellent addition if Bungie would remove the lock-on for both vehicles and infantry.

You know, I was worried about that thing being overpowered in Invasion. I've played over 20 games of it and have barely seen any action from it.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Guess I expect too much from people then

My point would just be that another thread would likey just be locked, happened already. Non-Halo fans don't like there being multiple active Halo threads at the same time.
That and some of the feedback would end up just being split. This is really where it makes sense to be.

 

[Mr Vociferous]

I've kept most of feedback here to limited bursts here and there. I'm working on a piece for FUD that will feature my thoughts on the positives and negatives and everything in between but, honestly, I'm still not happy coming to any firm conclusions.

One day I might have a certain opinion about a feature or mechanic and the next day it may have shifted slightly. I'm finding it slightly difficult to keep my thoughts coherently stable on a wide range of issues that the Beta brings up.

Yeah, I'm similar when it comes to any new gaming experience. Not sure when you plan to release this (sounds cool, btw), but I'd recommend letting the experience run its course. I have a tendency to be most dramatic right after experiencing something I really like or dislike, but if I let it sit for a bit and then come back with a pen a week or two later, I have no trouble forming a coherent opinion with solid evidences to back it up.

I will say this: Playing as an Elite has never felt so awesome. Makes me want to see an all Elite game - all Elites, all the time. I'd call it Halo: Sangheility Now or Halo: The Purple Dino Crisis or something equally awesome. But for real, the Covenant weapons are beastly this time around. I dig 'em.

 

[Najaf]

Thoughts from a 'hardcore' player:

Halo Reach continues to play upon the ancient design of map/weapon control. Despite the new kit selections, the dominating weapons still are scattered around the map, and if teams of equal skill are playing, the team who controls these will win.

Using the DMR, pistol, and Needle rifle take skill. Popping the shields and going for the headshot rewards a twitch player and truly can separate the the skill levels. However, this skill is largely moot when the power weapons are introduced.

I am a decent player. My skill with the DMR or whatnot is better than average, but when you put a sniper rifle in my hands I will almost always get a sniper spree even against much better players. Obviously the same is true with the rocket launcher, sword, shotgun and such. These weapons take a multihit game, such as the 5 hit DMR, and turn it into a click to kill game. While there is still skill involved, it is by no means the determining factor of who wins a battle.

I really enjoy Modern Warfare 2 and Bad Company 2's hardcore modes. I play these exclusively as opposed to their sister 'regular' modes. The reason I do this is because it rewards a tactical mindset more than a hair trigger. As a military man myself, I understand the concept of first sight. The opponent who sees his enemy first within range and who is efficient with his weapon will eliminate the other. This mindset promotes deliberate and tactical movement in the real world, and in these sort of 'hardcore' game types as well. If I see someone first in Bad Company 2, I will win the exchange.

This is somewhat akin to how Halo plays with power weapons. If I have a sword or shotgun, in order to ensure a good k/d spread and help my team, I should not venture into the open. I should stick to the tight corridors or by choke points to take advantage of the close range one hit kill. On the other hand the sniper rifle encourages play in the open ranges, and one should avoid entering those same choke points.

My point is that this fundamentally changes the pace of a match in Halo. I was hoping the introduction of kits would eliminate this, but their direction did little to solve the dilemma. Do not get me wrong, Halo requires more skill to play well than a hardcore match in Bad Company, even with the power weapons. The pace is faster, and the weapons require more skill to use.

Then there is the melee. Unless I confront someone who is wielding a power weapon, it is almost always a better choice to charge and double melee than to shoot it out. Even if my opponent is unloading his assault rifle on me, if I land the first melee before my shields pop, I am going to win the engagement. Such a powerful move needs to have a slower recovery time to avoid these double tap kills.

The introduction of assassinations is frustrating for me. There really should be an option to turn them off in personal settings. Yesterday in the arena, twice I intended to do a simple tap to the back for an instant kill, but I suppose in the moment I held the bumper down a split second too long and I went into the assassination animation and proceeded to get melee'd by his teammate who was right there. If it is purely and solely a showboat tactic, I should be able to turn it off so I don't accidentally do it.

Overall, Reach is a fun game. It is different than what I normally look for in a shooter. I left the Halo formula long ago, and I expect that a majority of my play time will be in a swat playlist, but there are aspects of the core design (power weapons) that leave me scratching my head.

 

[_Bro]

Well, I did say I'd dialed it down, not eliminated it.

But yeah, that was a bit much, because while I have been vocal, I try to make my criticism about the game, not the people who made it. So I apologize for that.

I was angry, because I love Halo's vehicle play, and was really, really looking forward to it, and it is pretty broken after being nearly perfect in Halo 3. And I think the response here has been very typical GAF. Though I've joined the moaners a lot more than I usually do.

Correct. I don't use profanity at all in real life, and usually for emphasis on GAF, rather than vitriol. Though that's hard to tell and I was less than contrite in my response.

lol no

last resort
avalanche
isolation
high ground
standoff

tinted glasses, bro

 

[Diablohead]

I would love to see the spartan laser change so that it only charges when looking at a vehicle, like rocket locks. The weapon to me was cool at first in halo 3 but I am not a fan of it, I prefer the classic rocket locking from halo 2.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I would love to see the spartan laser change so that it only charges when looking at a vehicle, like rocket locks. The weapon to me was cool at first in halo 3 but I am not a fan of it, I prefer the classic rocket locking from halo 2.

I think the Lazer should be useable against infantry, if a player wants to waste a valuable shot... so be it?

 

[GhaleonEB]

You know, I was worried about that thing being overpowered in Invasion. I've played over 20 games of it and have barely seen any action from it.

Agree, it's been a non-issue in the games I've played. I think the ability to spawn with a grenade launcher is a much larger issue during round 3 of Invasion. Though, I'd still rather the Plasma Launcher not track infantry. I'd like to see rockets replace it on Sword Base.

 

[dslgunstar]

LMAO, I guess all those rage quits finally took their toll. Yesterday I was a Gold (4), today with the same average scores, Im a Bronze (2).

So am I stuck in Bronze? How do I get back up to Gold? Cause arent division rankings dependent on the skill and scores of the people I play with?

Assuming everyone around me are of the same divisional skill, wont I just be scoring less valuable 1600s against Bronze players the whole time?

*scratches head*

 

[Gui_PT]

Well this is the internet. Are you new?

Making a new thread is like a open invite to all of NeoGaf. Its probably best if the HaloGaf regulars do this. Especially when you consider the fact that nost people wouldnt read the OP anyway.

My point would just be that another thread would likey just be locked, happened already. Non-Halo fans don't like there being multiple active Halo threads at the same time.
That and some of the feedback would end up just being split. This is really where it makes sense to be.

I am but a child. I dreamt of a world where people could discuss in a civilized way. Alas, my dreams were crushed.

 

[The Librarian]

You know, I was worried about that thing being overpowered in Invasion. I've played over 20 games of it and have barely seen any action from it.

Count yourself lucky, then.

 

[kylej]

Where are you guys? Get online and lets play some Arena.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Random thought: while I have many issues with Invasion, every one of them stems from variables that are easily adjusted. The placement of the objectives, the load outs, the path from Core to pick up. So I'm hopeful those things - like so much else that's already know to be - can be adjusted in the final game after seeing how it pans out in Beta.

But I'm particularly hopeful we can toggle all those same variables in customs: placement of objectives, what those objectives are, the size and shape and placement of the barriers they're tied to, etc. Some epic customs will happen on Boneyard. The thought process that begins with "I'd rather it be done this way..." ends with the reminder that I probably can do it that way. It's Halo, after all.

And now to get my second Daily Rating.

*deep breath*

 

[Diablohead]

Where are you guys? Get online and lets play some Arena.

How DARE you tell me what to do!

Spoiler

i'll play in 5

 

[Butane123]

Count yourself lucky, then.

How many times have you been killed by it?

 

[dominuece]

I have played the beta at my friend's house and it is glorious! I really love the new abilities, and RB melee is weird at first but really effective in the long run. Bungie could sell their matchmaking for billions. I really need a beta key!!! Please! Going home is going to suck, and my local Gamestop has spiked the price of ODST. Bastards...

 

[-PXG-]

Second one is up for grabs. Rehost please.

A nut hair away from getting Captain rank. Just a few more games

 

[GhaleonEB]

How many times have you been killed by it?

Behold yet another reason bungie.net rocks:

Dax has played 44 games on Boneyard, and has been killed with the Plasma Launcher four times, and killed three players with it, for a -1 spread.

One death every eleven games. (Sorry, Dax.)

I imagine this is the same kind of data Bungie will be looking at when making adjustments.

He's also killed 25 people with the Grenade Launcher, but died only seven times. The bastard.

 

[Dirtbag]

Yeah, I'm similar when it comes to any new gaming experience. Not sure when you plan to release this (sounds cool, btw), but I'd recommend letting the experience run its course. I have a tendency to be most dramatic right after experiencing something I really like or dislike, but if I let it sit for a bit and then come back with a pen a week or two later, I have no trouble forming a coherent opinion with solid evidences to back it up.

I will say this: Playing as an Elite has never felt so awesome. Makes me want to see an all Elite game - all Elites, all the time. I'd call it Halo: Sangheility Now or Halo: The Purple Dino Crisis or something equally awesome. But for real, the Covenant weapons are beastly this time around. I dig 'em.

What I've found is that initially with Reach I loved it. Felt the combat click for me 2 days later and got my pistol/dmr legs... then I started slipping backwards and now I'm mostly frustrated with it. It's still got that addicting halo-ness to it once I start playing, but I don't really crave starting up the box to play it. Arena has been my favorite so far, but I'm not crazy about the maps. Powerhouse is pretty fun, but there is a large dead area at the bottom (shotgun), and some of the sight lines are as frustrating as halo 3 was.

Now some of the subtle core mechanics are starting to bother me. The vehicles are dead to me. Grenades have completely gotten to me on a mental level - that I curse my attackers name just seeing them. Armor lock frustrates me in the right hands. The soft ceilings feel extremely low and makes using a jetpack or banshee feel glitchy most of the time. And the increased duration of a shootout, coupled with AA's to basically get into cover / run away / allow backup to arrive quickly and a false sense of panic that a 1-shot beeping shield adds.... wow I'm just exhausted with it.

 

[Butane123]

Behold yet another reason bungie.net rocks:

Dax has played 44 games on Boneyard, and has been killed with the Plasma Launcher four times, and killed three players with it, for a -1 spread.

On death every eleven games. (Sorry, Dax.)

I imagine this is the same kind of data Bungie will be looking at when making adjustments.

He's also killed 25 people with the Grenade Launcher, but died only seven times. The bastard.

I wanted him to answer that!

But yeah, I'm at 21 games and have been killed with it almost exactly as much as he has. Why is it so bad Dax?

 

[Dirtbag]

I wanted him to answer that!

But yeah, I'm at 21 games and have been killed with it almost exactly as much as he has. Why is it so bad Dax?

See also Swordbase.

 

[Gareth Bale]

Random thought: while I have many issues with Invasion, every one of them stems from variables that are easily adjusted. The placement of the objectives, the load outs, the path from Core to pick up. So I'm hopeful those things - like so much else that's already know to be - can be adjusted in the final game after seeing how it pans out in Beta.

But I'm particularly hopeful we can toggle all those same variables in customs: placement of objectives, what those objectives are, the size and shape and placement of the barriers they're tied to, etc. Some epic customs will happen on Boneyard. The thought process that begins with "I'd rather it be done this way..." ends with the reminder that I probably can do it that way. It's Halo, after all.

And now to get my second Daily Rating.

*deep breath*

:/ I said this at least 5 pages ago...thanks for reading.

Let's calm this down a little. It's a beta remember. Everything that people seem to have said is an issue can be fixed; spawns, loadouts, bugs, etc..

 

[Sai-kun]

Is there a place on B.net where you can see who got kills with what weapons, like in Halo 3?

I just remembered a game where I had a Plasma Launcher and it followed this guy in a banshee in circles as he tried to dodge it, and it eventually stuck him and killed him! I wanna find it!

 

[danwarb]

Pictures from my first Invasion:

 

[Butane123]

Is there a place on B.net where you can see who got kills with what weapons, like in Halo 3?

I just remembered a game where I had a Plasma Launcher and it followed this guy in a banshee in circles as he tried to dodge it, and it eventually stuck him and killed him! I wanna find it!

Find the game you want. Click on the carnage tab, find their gamertag (or yourself), click the + sign next to the emblem.

 

[kylej]

Playing as an elite in Invasion is not fun. At all.

 

[Gareth Bale]

Wow. Those textures on the ground are ridiculous. The ability of these artists to make flat surfaces appear 3d is incredible.

Pictures from my first Invasion: