Hydranockz
Member
Why is A called A? Is that the one by the office building or the Silo? Oh it's by the Silo... I'm at B.Mr. B Natural said:
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Halo: Reach Beta Thread
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
divisionbyzorro
Member
Mr. B Natural said:
11+ days of MW2 talking here. I vastly prefer Halo's solution to this problem than MW2's. I'd rather deal with quitters than deal with being put into a completely unwinnable game where the enemy has the high ground and wads of air support. Or deal with teammates quitting when they get killed in the first round of Search and Destroy.
Dax01 said:
How many more pages of this topic are you going to spend by fellating the grenade launcher? :lol
It is a damn sweet weapon though!
Mr. B Natural said:
No. Stern and Bow are the perfect names. Look it up.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Cerrius said:
Why not be more passive about it?
Make sure that serial quitters are always and only matched up against other serial quitters. Give them a taste of their own medicine.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
I've wrote this up but I'm not including it in my article. Just some thoughts about Invasion which I may add as an appendix. It really doesn't fit in with some of the stuff I've put to paper so far so I'm throwing it out here in case anyone fancies to read some ramblings.
====
I've been looking at and thinking about certain Invasion mechanics, such as the capture territories, the weapon cache spawns, the Tier triggers for the collapsing shield doors and at the objects themselves as they spawn, when they spawn, etc.
It looks like the Invasion specific items on the level aren't pre-existing items on the level itself, like the geometry, but are added there by Forge or whatever tool Bungie uses.
Take a look at the Data Core. It rests clearly above the floor geometry.
The territory isn't exactly perfectly aligned seems like it was done by hand. Also take note of the red large object which nestles the territory. On the Commonwealth both of these objects are identical, but feature slightly different alignments on the environment. It could simply be a case of a reused asset or an indication that these objects may or may not be removable/editable.
One thing to note, I'm undecided whether the computer terminals, the one thing all the territory locations have in common, are also moveable/editable. Decide for yourself.
These concrete blocks look hastily added to provide some cover to this area which the actual level geometry lacks. Like the Data core, they look out of place.
Assuming Invasion could be modified in Forge 2.0 or just as easily by Bungie, it opens up the possibility for alterations to address some common criticisms. Whilst the approach to address these criticisms is vast indeed (changing territory positions, spawn locations, Loadouts options, etc), here is a quick example.
You can see the starting spawn locations for the Elites during Tier 1 of Invasion. They are split into three groups of two, mirroring the Fireteams setup, and spread across the far end of the map. Each of these locations dictates the behaviour of the players that spawn there. In the picture above, the Elites on the bottom spawn in the furtherest left of the area and generally proceed to the left entrance to the Commonwealth ("left" being the the natural left of spawning Elites facing the ship from their spawning locations). The Elites on the top (or furtherest right from their own perspective) will enter the right entrance and the group in the middle have a choice - there is a middle entrance to the ship but it's a walkway that leads to the left entrance.
What generally happens is, due the layout of the level and the amount of cover available, usually four Elites head towards the right entrance (right and middle teams) and two go the left (left team). That is, if the Elites are not picked off my DMR fire first.
If you look at the top and bottom you'll notice two cabins. They see little to no use in Invasion and play no significant role other than to exist. Occasionally you might see a player wander aimlessly around looking for cover.
If Invasion can be edited easily, then why not move the spawning locations to inside these cabins and maybe add a similar structure or wall for the middle group and place their spawns behind it shielding them from fire when they spawn.
The extra cover would go a long way towards halting spawn camping - no one likes to spawn into gun fire.
Additionally adding more cover along the left hand route would promote a more even split in the routes taken by the middle spawning group.
In all honesty, if Invasion is fully customisable by the player then I wouldn't make these changes. I'd make larger, more drastic changes to everything. Changing the setup completely, moving the initial spawn zones from one part of the map to the other, changing the Data Core location, changing the vehicle availability and more.
Seeing the Phantoms above the starting spawn points don't fill me with confidence that this is the case. It would be highly unlikely we get to change to affect that Phantom locations (or behaviours since they move forward during the transitions of each Tier).
I'm going to hold out hope. When I look at the end goal of the Elites during Invasion you can see the Phantom hover above the territory waiting to pick up the Data Core for extraction, who is to say that come this fall the second Phantom may not serve as a second end goal territory in our own custom Invasion?
====
====
I've been looking at and thinking about certain Invasion mechanics, such as the capture territories, the weapon cache spawns, the Tier triggers for the collapsing shield doors and at the objects themselves as they spawn, when they spawn, etc.
It looks like the Invasion specific items on the level aren't pre-existing items on the level itself, like the geometry, but are added there by Forge or whatever tool Bungie uses.
Take a look at the Data Core. It rests clearly above the floor geometry.
The territory isn't exactly perfectly aligned seems like it was done by hand. Also take note of the red large object which nestles the territory. On the Commonwealth both of these objects are identical, but feature slightly different alignments on the environment. It could simply be a case of a reused asset or an indication that these objects may or may not be removable/editable.
One thing to note, I'm undecided whether the computer terminals, the one thing all the territory locations have in common, are also moveable/editable. Decide for yourself.
These concrete blocks look hastily added to provide some cover to this area which the actual level geometry lacks. Like the Data core, they look out of place.
Assuming Invasion could be modified in Forge 2.0 or just as easily by Bungie, it opens up the possibility for alterations to address some common criticisms. Whilst the approach to address these criticisms is vast indeed (changing territory positions, spawn locations, Loadouts options, etc), here is a quick example.
You can see the starting spawn locations for the Elites during Tier 1 of Invasion. They are split into three groups of two, mirroring the Fireteams setup, and spread across the far end of the map. Each of these locations dictates the behaviour of the players that spawn there. In the picture above, the Elites on the bottom spawn in the furtherest left of the area and generally proceed to the left entrance to the Commonwealth ("left" being the the natural left of spawning Elites facing the ship from their spawning locations). The Elites on the top (or furtherest right from their own perspective) will enter the right entrance and the group in the middle have a choice - there is a middle entrance to the ship but it's a walkway that leads to the left entrance.
What generally happens is, due the layout of the level and the amount of cover available, usually four Elites head towards the right entrance (right and middle teams) and two go the left (left team). That is, if the Elites are not picked off my DMR fire first.
If you look at the top and bottom you'll notice two cabins. They see little to no use in Invasion and play no significant role other than to exist. Occasionally you might see a player wander aimlessly around looking for cover.
If Invasion can be edited easily, then why not move the spawning locations to inside these cabins and maybe add a similar structure or wall for the middle group and place their spawns behind it shielding them from fire when they spawn.
The extra cover would go a long way towards halting spawn camping - no one likes to spawn into gun fire.
Additionally adding more cover along the left hand route would promote a more even split in the routes taken by the middle spawning group.
In all honesty, if Invasion is fully customisable by the player then I wouldn't make these changes. I'd make larger, more drastic changes to everything. Changing the setup completely, moving the initial spawn zones from one part of the map to the other, changing the Data Core location, changing the vehicle availability and more.
Seeing the Phantoms above the starting spawn points don't fill me with confidence that this is the case. It would be highly unlikely we get to change to affect that Phantom locations (or behaviours since they move forward during the transitions of each Tier).
I'm going to hold out hope. When I look at the end goal of the Elites during Invasion you can see the Phantom hover above the territory waiting to pick up the Data Core for extraction, who is to say that come this fall the second Phantom may not serve as a second end goal territory in our own custom Invasion?
====
Wu-Gambino
Banned
i've played like 50 games of invasion already :lol
i win as both elites and spartans but i still think the elites suck.
i win as both elites and spartans but i still think the elites suck.
Mr. B Natural
Member
Hydranockz said:
You call it A cause there's a big A on your map ala every decently designed multiplayer game that has multiple points at one time. Invasion doesn't have that. Again, this is design 101. If you have multiple objectives, you name them and you put them in a spot that's easy to see. Nobody has to memorize or inform players to what they are talking about.
I'm not mocking your name convention, I'm mocking bungie for forcing you guys to even think of one. Bungie can name one Poo and the other Face for all I care. Poo and face would be used and there would be no ambiguity whatsoever.
Imagine playing Cod4's domination where A, B and C are just universal markers. Or TF2. Ugh. C'mon guys.
Hydranockz
Member
Only one half of the map is ever used in Invasion Slayer which is a shame.
Why doesn't Invasion play 2 rounds in one game? It feels superfluous to have to play a whole new game to experience the other side if you're lucky, 2 rounds feels much nicer. I kinda wish i could control when I'd spawn too, having some time yourself is nice. Maybe i've been playing Battlefield too much though.
Hydranockz
Member
You suck at cohesion. Call the Rocket Launcer by the callout F so. Watch out for the guy with F!!! That is bull and you know it. The same applies here. Rather than 2 highly ambiguous points, they have chosen visual landmarks as reference points, something us humans do naturally. I don't need to think where the fuck point J is in relation to the map when the word Office will do.Mr. B Natural said:
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
blanky said:
Two rounds are in the full game and you choose a spawning location or spawn on your partner when the respawn counter (which has always been present) counts down. There's a bug at the moment that extends the respawn time past the countdown in Invasion which won't be present in the final game.
Mr. B Natural
Member
Hydranockz said:
What in the hell are you going on? There are two points to capture/defend at one time in invasion. Bungie, rather than making an A and B (or 1 and 2) on your screen show up, they put * and *. Are you that daft to understand why that is just not thought out?
Again, when I say "that's design 101" i'm not talking to you, cause you didn't design the game now did you?
The names to every location is a nice touch, but it does not solve the issue the player was talking about when he couldn't call out each terminal's name when he needed to. Most people don't even pay attention to those names bungie added. There should NEVER be ambiguity to who is defending and attacking what. I should be able to play with absolute strangers from all sorts of educations and cultures and get my point across with absolute assurance. He/she will understand that "we need to defend A" and what that means. If you passed kindergarten and can see the A on your screen, you know where to go.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Wow, serious glitches and lag going on right now, anyone else seeing this? Two games in a row it wouldn't give me an armor ability.
Hydranockz
Member
Me, Zeouterlimits and my bro were all spartans playin Invasion. My friend was on the opposing side as an elite, yet everyone in the ame spawned with ARs and sprint, elites including.Deadly Cyclone said:
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Who says Elites can't Amour Lock? If you recall the host migration bug that starts a second round of Invasion with Elites defending, someone finally got to check out Elites doing the dirty.
Devin Olsen
Member
Awesome writeup Dani.Dani said:
I definitely agree with you, I think the computer terminals are forge objects for 'territories'.
It would be amazing if you could re-route the drop ships, though I somehow doubt that would be possible...
FilthyLies
Member
Wiggum2007
Junior Member
Elites are so massive and badass in this game, I love it.
Thagomizer
Member
Dani said:Who says Elites can't Amour Lock? If you recall the host migration bug that starts a second round of Invasion with Elites defending, someone finally got to check out Elites doing the dirty.
The fact that the pose and color of the shields are different from the Spartan's is proof enough to me that Elites will have AL in the final.
Before someone heads me off at the pass (I HATE that cliche!), when this is done with Sprint, there is no third-person animation change- the elites legs just move rather absurdly fast, implying to me that the game doesn't know what to do, as movement in Reach is physics based, and is just changing the animation in what it "thinks" is the correct way
electricpirate
Member
Anyone else notice a bug where you drop a guys shield but it still looks like he has some left? It's Really annoying when trying to time that headshot, or mêlée.
Fuckin' magnets, how do they work?FilthyLies said:
Digital Enhancement
Neo Member
Hydranockz said:
Same exact thing happened to me.
I'm really enjoying Invasion so far. I just got two shut-outs in a row, first time Elites didn't even touch the capture points, second time they were pretty close. Next game was a Slayer, and I left a Scorpion sitting on the capture point, then when a new one spawned the old one launched into the air :lol I'll get some screens in a bit.
We just had this happen in an Invasion Slayer game. I was on the Elite side, couldn't even touch the loadout menu, had AR spawns, no armor abilities at all, we could capture the territories, but the countdown to receive the reinforcements would be stuck at 0, and we could only spawn on our battle bro.Hydranockz said:
Once we hit 25 kills, everything switch over to being normal, except spawning.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I'll be honest - I love the buddy system. I would love to see this done in more game modes than just Invasion.
Subtervotion
Member
Butane123 said:
Our first game of Invasion Slayer was like this. And if I remember correctly it was all people from GAF too.
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
Spawn selection in Invasion Slayer was a horrible idea, I just got done playing 4 matches in a row that were nothing but Spartans spawn camping with shotguns and a tank.
This is mainly due to the fact that there aren't enough spawn point selections for the Elites, only 2 total. Really really takes the fun out of the game.
This is mainly due to the fact that there aren't enough spawn point selections for the Elites, only 2 total. Really really takes the fun out of the game.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Not a Jellyfish said:
The system isn't the problem. But letting Spartans spawn with shotguns is a bad idea.
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
divisionbyzorro said:
I think the system is part of the problem because their are only 2 spawns to choose from when your "battle bro" is in combat.
DeadFalling
Member
Question: Has anyone here ever went up a rank? I dropped from Onyx to Silver and can't get to Gold for shit.
Cuban Legend
Member
I thought it was 3 daily ratings? Was this in the update? How did i miss this? When will I stop asking stupid questions?Pandoracell said:
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Armor lock on the elite looks awesome. I wonder if the spartans can roll? :lol
Its pretty crazy how many awkward and funny bugs are revealing really weird things in Reach.
Its pretty crazy how many awkward and funny bugs are revealing really weird things in Reach.
DeadFalling
Member
I need someone to kick ass in Arena with. I'm Silver and usually get scores in the 1500s or 1600s.
GT: MetallicLlama
add me
GT: MetallicLlama
add me
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
DeadFalling said:
Depends on the map...kick ass on Sword Base, and am horrible on Powerhouse. :lol