http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11960243&postcount=1766BladedExpert said:
Why isn't that guy tagged for the best post in GAF history, I don't know.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo Reach Reveal Thread - Matchmaking/Multiplayer Details Revealed
- Thread starter Slightly Live
- Start date
Why isn't that guy tagged for the best post in GAF history, I don't know.
dilatedmuscle
Member
EazyB said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=19644328#post19644328
I replied to your post... i dont know how to isolate posts though :/
Letters said:
LOL im convinced that all psycho gamers are milk lovers, in his video he sips milk like its whine/liquor, and that other MW2 psycho (the guy that punches the wall) has milk dripping out if his mouth lol.... Personally, i dont like milk. Like Arnold said in Pumping Iron " milk is for babies... when you get older you have to drink beer" lol
I just looked at the Reach screens again and they look better to me this time around lol. the night time pics with the spotlights look super smooth. I cant wait to see how this game finally turns out.
EazyB said:
You think it provides better set-pieces than Half-Life 2 and its episodes, BioShock, Modern Warfare 2, Gears of War, Batman AA, Dead Space, Resident Evil 4, etc? Those are all linear AAA big-budget games that flawlessly weave their story into their setting through spectacle.
Bungie refuses to go down the crazy rollercoaster ride of the Modern Warfare games. They also refuse to turn it into a grimy FPS like Killzone. I'm not saying you have to go to one extreme or the other, but when you attempt to exist in the middle-ground and refuse to do anything daring it all falls flat. Halo 2, 3 and ODST so strictly adhere to the CE mantra that you have to wonder when Bungie will actually try something fresh. How long have we been fighting grunts now? 10 years later am I really going to have to run into a large circular area and shoot grunts and brutes and elites? I know what noises they're going to make, how they move about the environment and what they look like. I've known for too long now. Why not have unique enemies or allies pop up during different levels? Are there really only 3 or 4 races fighting over the fate of the universe?
Bungie didn't even have to change any major pieces of gameplay with its sequels. Over and over in this thread I see people claiming the dual-wielding machanic was a waste of time, the laser is overpowered and having to find health packs to heal yourself is a pain in the ass. Those are the three major mechanics added in the past 3 games.
When you seemingly don't have enough respect for your story to build a proper narrative through the campaign, why are you limiting your enemy design and levels because you're afraid to break from the canon? Here's something that Bungie fails to understand; the people at HaloGAF enjoy reading dissertations about blurry wall textures. These people are like Kojima fans, they'll sit through a 6 and a half hour cutscene which culminates in an Avatar person sticking its hair into Master Chief's head and riding him around. The rest of the kids who play Halo could give a rats ass about what's going on. They hammer that A button as soon as the screen goes dark in between levels. Don't cater to those people because no matter what you do, they won't care.
When you have to point to the first game and tell everyone that the Reach campaign will be like that, what does it say about 2, 3 and ODST?
squidhands
Member
Goddam it, this makes too much sense.kylej said:
Merguson said:
Modern Warfare 2 is no different than any action movie. The best action movies don't take their story seriously, in fact they don't really expect you to care. The script is there to tie together all the ridiculous scenes and quotes into a unified package. Through a story you can cling onto pieces of reality that can ground the experience a little bit. If you think MW2 is anything other than the game IW set out to make I'd say you're wrong. Better to be balls out crazy than fail to have both an interesting story or wild spectacle.
metareferential
Member
Anyone who has carefully listened to the january podcast?
The italian Halo community at Halo Universe claims that Reach multiplayer will feature equipments like Halo 3, whereas the campaign should have instead armor abilities.
Sounds strange to me.
The italian Halo community at Halo Universe claims that Reach multiplayer will feature equipments like Halo 3, whereas the campaign should have instead armor abilities.
Sounds strange to me.
dilatedmuscle
Member
Modern Warfare 2's set peices and pacing were phenominal. I hope Reach has set peices that change the game's mechanics like MW2's climbing ice and sprinting through favela with no weapons and jumping into a chopper. That would really take advantage of the campaign instead of having the campaign be simply a story mode with the same mechanics as the online multiplayer regardless of the set peice.
Multiplayer is about ballance. The campaign, in the other hand, should be no holds barred. I want to see the spartans act like the spartans in the actual canon of halo, not just a marine with special armor.
Multiplayer is about ballance. The campaign, in the other hand, should be no holds barred. I want to see the spartans act like the spartans in the actual canon of halo, not just a marine with special armor.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
metareferential said:
I've been paying attention and I have listened carefully. If you go through the released information and everything available, you'll find that Bungie have all but confirmed that Armour customisation carries through to multiplayer.
The problem is, that information alone is useless because we know to next to nothing about Reach's multiplayer. No solid details have been revealed aside from Urk's description of a single map.
Halo multiplayer, as it stands today, consists of Firefight and traditional style multiplayer, we have no confirmation is the Armour abilities transfer across to both these modes and what that entails.
I can't really read Italian, what exactly are they claiming?
metareferential
Member
dilatedmuscle said:
Well, while MW2 surely has some amazing moments, it should also be noted that Halo has always tried to convey that kind of excitement into the core sandbox gameplay.
In MW2 you get action movie-like sequences that are fun but virtually unreplayable (does this adjective even exist? xD).
Halo 3 set-pieces are the three Scarab encounters. It is true though that some other moments of the game are far more linear and akin to the MW-model, like the final warthog escape.
The problem with choices like those Infinity Ward has made is that dynamic cooperative gameplay is not compatible with them. And Halo is all about that.
Dani said:
They say that Reach multiplayer does not feature the new abilities, having the Halo 3 standard equipments like the bubble shield and so on.
On the other hand the campaign has the abilities.
Ultimo hombre
Banned
dilatedmuscle said:
MW and MW2 are nothing more than summer blockbusters. All explosions and no substance. They're the popcorn flick of the gaming and like summer blockbusters, successful ones. I like my Halo campaigns to be very different than MW campaigns. That's why I can play the Halo campagins repeatedly but I've never once had the urge to do another round of the MW campaigns.
Ultimo hombre said:
This.
Pretty much sums up the philosophies of the games. IMO Halo is built on carefully engineered gameplay, whereas MW depends on explosive scripted set pieces that are only fun once.
It boils down to 30 seconds of gamepplay that is compelling enough to hold your attention and then some, compared with a game so flimsy and basic that explosions and shock factor are required to keep the player interested.
Fix'dEazyB said:
This is just what came to mind when I saw the pic. I actually had to google 'em to get names.
In other news, Bungie has shown me that it can tell a good story in the past, and while I don't feel they've done a perfect job of this in EVERY Halo game, I DO think they've done better than average at their worst, and I have high hopes for Reach.
BerserkerBarage
Neo Member
Don't lie Wu, you didn't have to Google anything.
The set pieces in MW2 are interesting. For about 5 seconds. Then they are completely forgettable. Kinda like the entire game of Bioshock.
For single player games, I want something that even while the story is mainly the same, I want to have different experiences within it. Typically that is done via gameplay. Which is why SS2 will always be a far superior game than Bioshock. Because even though the story stays the same, they are different ways to go about playing the game.
The same is true in Halo. Look at Silent Cartographer for example. You can ride around joy-riding in the Warthog Foe drops off, or you can take the methodical on-foot approach. It's a far harder challenge to make it to the various points in Silent Cartographer if you don't take the Warthog, but in the end, you're still going to the same places. Yet it plays differently based upon a very simple decision.
Halo might not be the best storytelling in video games, but for the genre of FPS, they are pretty high above average.
~B.B.
The set pieces in MW2 are interesting. For about 5 seconds. Then they are completely forgettable. Kinda like the entire game of Bioshock.
For single player games, I want something that even while the story is mainly the same, I want to have different experiences within it. Typically that is done via gameplay. Which is why SS2 will always be a far superior game than Bioshock. Because even though the story stays the same, they are different ways to go about playing the game.
The same is true in Halo. Look at Silent Cartographer for example. You can ride around joy-riding in the Warthog Foe drops off, or you can take the methodical on-foot approach. It's a far harder challenge to make it to the various points in Silent Cartographer if you don't take the Warthog, but in the end, you're still going to the same places. Yet it plays differently based upon a very simple decision.
Halo might not be the best storytelling in video games, but for the genre of FPS, they are pretty high above average.
~B.B.
I think I'm bleeding "encounters" with "set pieces" together. You're referring to set pieces as purely visual/story features while I'd take a great encounter over a highly scripted in-game cuscene of sorts. Sure it's neat running out of a bunker and seing the white house in flames but when you follow that up with more stale, shooting gallery, encounters it underwhelms me. To me, a great... moment in a Halo campaign is something like the room with grav lifts on the second level. You probably wouldn't consider it a set-piece but it's still, Bungie's crafted a more exciting and fun moment than most any other game offers. Not because of some story I probably don't care about, or how breathtaking it is visually, but because of the fantastic gunplay and AI. So maybe we agree here, I don't think Bungie does anything too out of the ordinary when it comes to triggering an amazing "set-piece" but then I'd say it doesn't matter as much to me.kylej said:
I really don't see what spectrum you're dealing with here. Tone, level design, scripting? Anyways, unlike MW and Killzone, Halo has always delivered something that feels much more substantial than the shooting galleries many games turn into.kylej said:
Much of that has to do with working in the same universe over and over. I too am growing tired of the Halo universe but given their situation with MS it was unavoidable and we just have to wait for New IP. As far as # of enemies are concerned, I appreciate the fact that each enemy in Halo feels so different (aesthetically but much more important behaviorally) that it makes up for the fact that they don't have 20 different enemies mostly comprised of pallet swaps.kylej said:
Still on par, if not leading, industry standard with Halo's gunplay and vehicles. I'm always down for innovation but given it's all had to be under the same universe I don't see room to be terribly disappointed.kylej said:
With the exception of ODST (that could've brought something great to the franchise but its HUB mechanic fell flat) I think they all brought something better to the table. From a story perspective I'd fall back on CE but I really don't give a shit about story and Halo 3's campaign from a level design, AI, and encounters is just as good as CE. The Half-Life games are the only SP campaigns that may be better than CE so I don't really blame them for not trumping their previous iterations.kylej said:
Last night I had the best Halo Reach dream ever.
I found myself in a level throwback to Assault on the Control Room. There were Wraiths, Grunts, and Elites, and I was picking them off with a classic M6D pistol. I died once, and saw a close third-person camera view of myself (My character model appeared to have the Mark V helmet equipped). I eventually beat that encounter, and some Pelicans swooped in and dropped vehicles. I counted six Warthogs, and in the middle was a Scorpion tank. I moseyed up to the side and ordered the driver out, and was somewhat surprised when he was voiced by the VA of Coach (from Left 4 Dead 2). It cut away to an infantry level modelled after ol "343 Guilty Spark". Dead grunts lay in piles around doorways, bright blue blood was splattered across floors and walls. A mysterious fluid dripped from the ceiling. I dropped down onto the floor below and ran toward the mysterious door before me, intent on pressing further.
Suddenly waking, I realized that this game doesn't actually exist and I made the "I am disappoint" face.
I found myself in a level throwback to Assault on the Control Room. There were Wraiths, Grunts, and Elites, and I was picking them off with a classic M6D pistol. I died once, and saw a close third-person camera view of myself (My character model appeared to have the Mark V helmet equipped). I eventually beat that encounter, and some Pelicans swooped in and dropped vehicles. I counted six Warthogs, and in the middle was a Scorpion tank. I moseyed up to the side and ordered the driver out, and was somewhat surprised when he was voiced by the VA of Coach (from Left 4 Dead 2). It cut away to an infantry level modelled after ol "343 Guilty Spark". Dead grunts lay in piles around doorways, bright blue blood was splattered across floors and walls. A mysterious fluid dripped from the ceiling. I dropped down onto the floor below and ran toward the mysterious door before me, intent on pressing further.
Suddenly waking, I realized that this game doesn't actually exist and I made the "I am disappoint" face.
Halo setpieces are pretty much non existant, as I see them. Possible exceptions are the driving sections, but they've become a standard in the Halo universe so they don't seem like setpieces. MW, on the other hand, has a lot off one-off encounters, like sniping out of a helicopter or a snowmobile ride. MW creates some intense situations, but there isn't very much reason to replay the campaign, as if you've seen it once, you've seen it enough. Halo's superior sandbox and AI make situations always interesting, as the encounters never play out in the same way. For instance, the first scarab fight on The Storm. There are a number of ways to approach the fight, from using the missile pods to mongooseingbit with a marine to jumping onto the scarab from the crane. Even when on the scarab, you can kill everything or do a smash and run. MW you shoot the enemies with a gun, or a slightly different gun.
Taking "set-pieces" literally (as props moving about on a stage), I'd define one as:
a) A scripted occurrence (not something that the AI or level can do on its own)
b) Can be triggered by the player's progress, but not directly dependent on the player's input
c) Typically large in influence, changing the progress of the story or level in bigger ways than the player's action alone
Going by those definitions, Halo doesn't have too many of those "authored" moments, whereas something like Half-Life is so highly authored set-pieces and encounters are so tightly interwoven as to be indistinguishable most of the time. The most notable set-piece I can think of in the Halo series was the Scarab in Halo 2, from its first appearance to its rampage through the city. Halo 3's AI Scarabs are still very good enemies, but we never really saw a set-piece around them beyond "something big just joined the party". That (being chased -> being empowered -> chasing the chaser) set-piece progression never happened again, and I think that's kind of a shame.
a) A scripted occurrence (not something that the AI or level can do on its own)
b) Can be triggered by the player's progress, but not directly dependent on the player's input
c) Typically large in influence, changing the progress of the story or level in bigger ways than the player's action alone
Going by those definitions, Halo doesn't have too many of those "authored" moments, whereas something like Half-Life is so highly authored set-pieces and encounters are so tightly interwoven as to be indistinguishable most of the time. The most notable set-piece I can think of in the Halo series was the Scarab in Halo 2, from its first appearance to its rampage through the city. Halo 3's AI Scarabs are still very good enemies, but we never really saw a set-piece around them beyond "something big just joined the party". That (being chased -> being empowered -> chasing the chaser) set-piece progression never happened again, and I think that's kind of a shame.
The Librarian
Banned
Get to work on a remake, Frankie.Botolf said:
EazyB said:
I agree, I think the gunplay is the best in the industry. That's why I play thousands of games of multiplayer. I don't understand all the accolades Bungie gets for its AI. Are the enemies smarter than most of the cannon fodder in other shooters? Sure, but it's not good enough to make me want to walk down a highway for 45 minutes and fight them. Whether it be story or spectacle, I need some reason to want to play the campaign, otherwise I don't see what the campaign has to offer me that I can't get in a game of CTF Valhalla.
But what is keeping Bungie from making interesting worlds/characters/guns/whatever in their universe? It's set in space. Space gives you carte blanche to design whatever you want. I don't care if you set a whole Halo game in NYC as long as you give me some reason to care.
Why? Bungie has Microsoft paying the bills and an enormous development team. It seems ridiculous to think it's ok for the sequels to not best the previous iterations.
Botolf said:
Exactly. Halo is a sci-fi epic that pits humanity against aliens in a fight to protect the universe. Nothing you do in-game is going to seem too outlandish. Bungie needs to stop falling back on their buzzwords like "sandbox" and terms like "30 seconds of fun" or "golden trifecta". Distinguish yourself through your art instead of regurgitated mechanics.
Yeah, I never had any issues with the vocal performances. I do think some of the writing was bad - mostly the love story - but the actors tried to make the most of it. Even more so than Halo 3, the hand-keyed animation really stood out as an obstacle to the characters being believable. In the Reach cinematic the animation really sells the characters as being real; ODST just felt....artificial.clashfan said:
I just wanted to state once again for the record:
I have no clue what the fuck I'm talking about when it comes to making a game.
But, yeah...
To me, the voice-acting in ODST felt.. flat.
Edit:
Could that be due to character models/animation?
I dunno...
I did wince a little bit inside everytime someone took his or her helmet off.
*ponder*
I have no clue what the fuck I'm talking about when it comes to making a game.
But, yeah...
To me, the voice-acting in ODST felt.. flat.
Edit:
Could that be due to character models/animation?
I dunno...
I did wince a little bit inside everytime someone took his or her helmet off.
*ponder*
electricpirate
Member
I agree with Ghaleon's interpretation of the Voice acting in ODST is correct, it's good voice acting held back by the writing in a few places, the animation, and the fact that while helmeted some of the characters were totally indistinguishable (The rookie, Buck and romeo).
In general though I was really pleased with ODST's story, if they had sunk some more time into the hub world to make it more visually distinct, it would have really shined. As is, it has some of my favorite encounters/set pieces/whatever the hell you want to call them of any game ever.
In general though I was really pleased with ODST's story, if they had sunk some more time into the hub world to make it more visually distinct, it would have really shined. As is, it has some of my favorite encounters/set pieces/whatever the hell you want to call them of any game ever.
Hydranockz
Member
So far I am liking the voice acting in Reach. Bungie were great in the past with doing their own animations for the facial expressions. However, I feel that perhaps the advancements/advantages in mocap, it kinda left them a bit behind when you look at ODST. I didn't mind in the slightest though.
Reading Ender's Game at the moment... Perhaps not the best idea as I have read Fall of Reach before it and will read First Strike after it. I like to think they are all related somehow
Feeling a pain in my chest with the news about Halo 2. I never got to play it on Live. I will try get a copy of it anyway at some point. If I can somehow get the 360's at my university to get access to Live I will try and get a
old school Halo 2 lockin going. There will always be the campaign and system link, right?
Reading Ender's Game at the moment... Perhaps not the best idea as I have read Fall of Reach before it and will read First Strike after it. I like to think they are all related somehow
Feeling a pain in my chest with the news about Halo 2. I never got to play it on Live. I will try get a copy of it anyway at some point. If I can somehow get the 360's at my university to get access to Live I will try and get a
somewhat
Right
The Librarian
Banned
Self Induced
Member
This is what I was asking about last night in the lobby (main page on bnet):
Did I miss something?
Did I miss something?
I'm assuming that last one is there just to screw with people; don't they usually have at least one really wacky option in the polls?Self Induced said:This is what I was asking about last night in the lobby (main page on bnet):
Did I miss something?
Now watch there be laser doors. I'm not even sure what those could be.
Captain Blood
Member
I hear doors that kill people for you are one of the killstreak rewards in the next CoD game.Louis Wu said:
The Librarian
Banned
Then that option should've been "AR starts all over again."Gui_PT said:
Zeouterlimits
Member
Seems that Ping Pong match between PA & Bungie was recorded and is part of the newest episode of PATV.
Edit: This episode was build up, Brian J. & Jonty B. are in it.
Edit: This episode was build up, Brian J. & Jonty B. are in it.
Turned out to be a slow news week on the Reach front. Hopefully there'll be an interesting nugget or two in the BWU.
Dislike is a strong word though. I'd say it falls in the average category, fun enough to play through if there isn't anything really worthwhile to play.
You bring up a good point in asking what a campaign would bring that competitive MP wouldn't, especially considering I'm not interested in the story and even if that's something you look for Bungie doesn't really deliver. All in all I guess the campaign doesn't mean much to me and wouldn't be bothered if they scrapped it all together. That said, the campaign does offer an opportunity to partake in firefights at a much grander scale and if the encounters are set up right (I agree highways suck) they're almost like a strategic puzzle to get through. The AI isn't even close to a human opponent due to its predictability but that same predictability adds some order to that puzzle. Firefights in most games reduce down to sitting behind some cover and just taking out enemies one by one as they pop in and out of cover. This is what I consider shooting gallery gameplay and Halo avoids this where most games don't thanks in large part by the AI. If the encounter is set up well it can deliver something fun and unique to the Halo experience.kylej said:
Excuse me if I appreciate games that actually play well.Ramirez said:
Dislike is a strong word though. I'd say it falls in the average category, fun enough to play through if there isn't anything really worthwhile to play.
Thank you for changing the topic so my post doesn't seem as intrusive and off topic (as they usually are).Zeouterlimits said:
Just in time for the weekend.
Since the OONSK meme seems to be fading i built him a statue so he may live on forever (or until XBL stops supporting Halo 3).
I need advice from HaloGAF. I'm trying to decide whether or not to buy this:
http://www.reelcollectibles.co.nz/images/halo/weta/weta_halo_cortana.jpg
Everything about it is awesome except for one thing. Cortana's face is all screwed up. Is her messed up face enough to pass this sweet concept over, or should I look past her face and appreciate the overall beauty of the statue?
http://www.reelcollectibles.co.nz/images/halo/weta/weta_halo_cortana.jpg
Everything about it is awesome except for one thing. Cortana's face is all screwed up. Is her messed up face enough to pass this sweet concept over, or should I look past her face and appreciate the overall beauty of the statue?
dilatedmuscle
Member
XenoRaven said:
looks awesome, buy it
Investigation Team Go!
Banned
GhaleonEB said:
Everyone hurry and vote for laser doors so Bungie will have no choice but to put them in this time. That's been my single biggest gripe about the Halo games thus far - the regular-ass doors.