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[Syracuse022]

They discuss who were the main people behind the map creations on Halo 2's Multiplayer Map Pack disc.

The most frequent designers are Rob Stokes (Relic, Backwash), Tyson Green (Gemini, Elongation, Turf), Steve Cotton (Containment, Sanctuary), Max Hoberman (Warlock), Chris Carney (Terminal).

Not sure about the Halo 2 maps on the initial disc.

In the Turf video, they were playing 3 Plots. Tyson, bring it back for Reach, plz.

Seriously, is there a map I like from Halo games that wasn't made by Cotton? Dude is a genius (see: deserves a raise and a corner office).

 

[Stinkles]

Have you played Crysis?

Yes.

 

[Gui_PT]

Why? He can just get the exact same thing from Fallout 3.

But we're not discussion Fallout.

Whan I meant was that crossing the invisible barriers, even though that's not the objective of the game , is fun

Why do I buy videogames? To have fun.

If all of that is actual geometry, why not allow me to go there and have some more fun, other than completing the objectives of that level? Doesn't change the game, or the gameplay; it just provides different types of fun.

 

[Kibbles]

Have the option to remove invisible walls after you beat the game.

Problem solved.

 

[Bloodrage]

Performance analysis, native resolution revealed. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-halo-reach-alpha-analysis-blog-entry

 

[Nutter]

Ramirez you really bring up that AR alot.:lol

We play almost daily, and everytime we do we get reminded why the AR is such a horrible weapon.

AR start on Heretic w/ stickies. = nightmares. [AR + Beat downs]

 

[Cuban Legend]

Have the option to remove invisible walls after you beat the game.

Problem solved.

As much as I'd love to see this happen...

I got a feeling some engineer or Env. Artist over at Bungie would spin in his early grave at the thought of that, probably due to some obscure game design reason us mortals wouldn't be able to understand?

 

[The Lamonster]

Seriously, is there a map I like from Halo games that wasn't made by Cotton? Dude is a genius (see: deserves a raise and a corner office).

Agreed.

 

[Justinian]

But we're not discussion Fallout.

Whan I meant was that crossing the invisible barriers, even though that's not the objective of the game , is fun

Why do I buy videogames? To have fun.

If all of that is actual geometry, why not allow me to go there and have some more fun, other than completing the objectives of that level? Doesn't change the game, or the gameplay; it just provides different types of fun.

Because when you get there it's really crude geometry and then you will be disappointed and not have any fun.

 

[The Lamonster]

Oh and my two cents: fuck invisible walls.


I loved exploring outside of the Halo 2 maps.

 

[Gui_PT]

Because when you get there it's really crude geometry and then you will be disappointed and not have any fun.

But I do have fun, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one

 

[Domino Theory]

God I love my girlfriend. We were playing multi-team last resort and she was getting really frustrated that people kept killing her from a distance. I told her that she had to either hid and wait for them to come close or find a BR then she could start fighting again.

"How do I get a BR?"

"You have to memorize where they spawn, run over and pick them up."

"Why don't we just start with one?"

What are you talking about? Trasher asked you yesterday what you like doing most in Halo and all you said was you like driving the Mongoose around. Hell, you didn't even bother to pick up a BR at all.

 

[Ramirez]

Ramirez you really bring up that AR alot.:lol

Put me on ignore, problem solved.

I said it to bring up a point about games and their design. If people can't realize that the AR is a more user friendly weapon then they're just being butthurt. I understand why it's the starting weapon, and I understand why the majority of the people on this forum have no problem with it. It doesn't mean I have to agree with it, but I know it won't change because of them trying to reach a larger demographic than just the super hardcore competitive MP crowd.

 

[Kapura]

But we're not discussion Fallout.

Whan I meant was that crossing the invisible barriers, even though that's not the objective of the game , is fun

Why do I buy videogames? To have fun.

If all of that is actual geometry, why not allow me to go there and have some more fun, other than completing the objectives of that level? Doesn't change the game, or the gameplay; it just provides different types of fun.

Why do game designers create videogames? To give you a specific experience.

I think that Halo gives you an extraordinary amount of freedom within the normal game. In any Halo game, you can approach every encounter in many different ways. Its well-rounded sandbox allows that, and equipment expanded that freedom even more. There is a ton of freedom in the main game, and Bungie wants us to play with that.

While breaking out of levels is fun for you, you only think it's fun because it's not what the designers had intended. There's a good reason that there isn't a videogame about circumventing soft barriers and invisible walls: because those activities only appeal in very specific circumstances to a very small niche audience. Games that are made for a very small niche audience aren't super successful, so those games are best left to indie developers who don't have the experience or the manpower to create games that are enormous and fascinating that can be enjoyed by the general public.

Side note: Just went outside. Apparently the last patch on my zone really cut own the draw distance, so there was fog about 300m out in any direction, and things just sorta came out of nowhere. I hope God gets a patch for this issue up quickly, it makes the graphics seem bush league.

Good dynamic lighting and AA though. Bungie, please take note.

 

[EazyB]

Cotton is fucking brilliant. Sanctuary, Containment, Guardian, Valhalla, High Ground, and who knows what else.

What are you talking about? Trasher asked you yesterday what you like doing most in Halo and all you said was you like driving the Mongoose around. Hell, you didn't even bother to pick up a BR at all.

Griffball. Non-objective AR games. This is Halo at its best.

I am the new Halo generation.

Why? He can just get the exact same thing from Fallout 3.

Fallout 3's open-world elements were balls. Another reason the disappointed me. It was plenty open world if you just wanted to stroll around a barren wasteland but once you got into the city you were forced to go through sewers because of Halo 3-esque invisible walls placed a foot up each pile of rubble.

 

[Gui_PT]

Why do game designers create videogames? To give you a specific experience.

I think that Halo gives you an extraordinary amount of freedom within the normal game. In any Halo game, you can approach every encounter in many different ways. Its well-rounded sandbox allows that, and equipment expanded that freedom even more. There is a ton of freedom in the main game, and Bungie wants us to play with that.

While breaking out of levels is fun for you, you only think it's fun because it's not what the designers had intended. There's a good reason that there isn't a videogame about circumventing soft barriers and invisible walls: because those activities only appeal in very specific circumstances to a very small niche audience. Games that are made for a very small niche audience aren't super successful, so those games are best left to indie developers who don't have the experience or the manpower to create games that are enormous and fascinating that can be enjoyed by the general public.

Side note: Just went outside. Apparently the last patch on my zone really cut own the draw distance, so there was fog about 300m out in any direction, and things just sorta came out of nowhere. I hope God gets a patch for this issue up quickly, it makes the graphics seem bush league.

Good dynamic lighting and AA though. Bungie, please take note.

Actually I agree with what you said. Just think it would be nice if people wouldn't have to know how to glitch a way out of the levels. Specially because sometimes it's tricky and I suck at it =(

And what's an.. "outside"?

 

[Oozer3993]

Fallout 3's open-world elements were balls. Another reason the disappointed me. It was plenty open world if you just wanted to stroll around a barren wasteland but once you got into the city you were forced to go through sewers because of Halo 3-esque invisible walls placed a foot up each pile of rubble.

But we're not discussion Fallout.

Whan I meant was that crossing the invisible barriers, even though that's not the objective of the game , is fun

Why do I buy videogames? To have fun.

If all of that is actual geometry, why not allow me to go there and have some more fun, other than completing the objectives of that level? Doesn't change the game, or the gameplay; it just provides different types of fun.

Dammit people, I was being sarcastic lol.

 

[Gui_PT]

Dammit people, I was being sarcastic lol.

You should've used a sarcasm tag!

 

[EazyB]

Dammit people, I was being sarcastic lol.

My apologies. After Kapura praised its open-world elements I wasn't sure if the general consensus was that Fallout 3 had good open-world elements. Wouldn't surprise me because apparently a lot of people thought it played well too.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

Someone on here posted the link to these screens taken form the vidoc and just now looking at them I found this one pretty interesting.

Not just because of the grenade launcher but because of how next to the armor abilities it says "Double Kill". Was this something that was added in ODST? If it was before that I apologize, I didn't play a lot of H3 campaign, just one play through.

 

[Chrange]

lol - Movie Gallery here sold through all their copies of ODST by looping the vid doc on a screen next to it with a sign that said 'BE IN THE REACH BETA WITH A COPY OF ODST!"

Good marketing :lol

 

[neoism]

I hope oh so desperately that they don't go overboard with the barriers again...

Halo 3 and ODST were both a bit much. Let the players explore! It is campaign, letting people venture off won't hurt anyone.

Has there been any talk of fall damage coming back? That would be quite interesting.

Urk??? Listen to this man!

 

[randomlyrossy]

Someone on here posted the link to these screens taken form the vidoc and just now looking at them I found this one pretty interesting.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/365/halo15.jpg[IMG]

Not just because of the grenade launcher but because of how next to the armor abilities it says "Double Kill". Was this something that was added in ODST? If it was before that I apologize, I didn't play a lot of H3 campaign, just one play through.[/QUOTE]

I think stuff like that only showed up when you had Campaign scoring on, odd that there's no type of scoring on the screen though. Presumably that's what it is though.

 

[Gui_PT]

I think stuff like that only showed up when you had Campaign scoring on, odd that there's no type of scoring on the screen though. Presumably that's what it is though.

I believe you'd get a multikill medal, but only with the scoring on.

ODST does differenciate between double, triple and overkills

 

[EazyB]

Not just because of the grenade launcher but because of how next to the armor abilities it says "Double Kill". Was this something that was added in ODST? If it was before that I apologize, I didn't play a lot of H3 campaign, just one play through.

In Halo 3 they added campaign scoring. When activated it would pop up a few medals for certain things and many things were given a point value which was added up next to your name and posted in the post-game summary.

ODST overhauled the campaign scoring by making the point values more apparent. The points appeared over beside your reticule and medals popped up underneath. In firefight mode the announcer would call out multi-kills and sprees much like Halo's traditional MP announcer.

I break this all down to give you a background on Halo's campaign scoring. This seems different. It's very much possible that the "Double Kill!" text is just temporary and that in the final game, with scoring turned on, will display a double kill medal instead like in ODST. It could also be that the medals and such will be tracked regardless of whether or no campaign scoring is on and that things like double kills will pop up in a less obtrusive location.

 

[neoism]

I think you give people far too much credit. There was an article on Halo 3 where they had random people come in and playtest it and they had to change part of Sierra 117 because people couldn't figure out you had to jump on a ledge to get to the next area.

I would find the article, but I'm lazy.

:lol :lol :lol They're using the wrong people!

 

[Trasher]

What are you talking about? Trasher asked you yesterday what you like doing most in Halo and all you said was you like driving the Mongoose around. Hell, you didn't even bother to pick up a BR at all.

:lol
Eazy and I had some good times yesterday. What happened to his voice though?!

 

[kylej]

I play against a German guy at lunch, log back on 6 hours later and play the same dude.

Got fucked by his shitty European connection both times too! Amazing luck.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

Because it gives a sense of scale that matt paintings cannot. You can have cool things like a ship flying in from far far away or some other events that you couldn't just do with a image or skybox.

See The Ark or The Storm in Halo 3 for a great example. All that far off geometry certainly does add something.

As I said, no one will genuinely care.

People with a brain will not genuinely CARE if those backgorunds are images, or real geometry. Hence, lose them.

 

[Ramirez]

:lol
Eazy and I had some good times yesterday. What happened to his voice though?!

Sounded feminine.

 

[Kapura]

As I said, no one will genuinely care.

People with a brain will not genuinely CARE if those backgorunds are images, or real geometry. Hence, lose them.

wat

Of course people will care. People will notice. People are awed by complex, nonstatic skyboxes, and they make the game a lot better.

 

[Striker]

Cotton is fucking brilliant. Sanctuary, Containment, Guardian, Valhalla, High Ground, and who knows what else.

So that answers one of my curiosities.

Seriously, is there a map I like from Halo games that wasn't made by Cotton? Dude is a genius (see: deserves a raise and a corner office).

Do you know the original Halo 2 maps designers? I'm sure Cotton had a hand on those, as well.

I never cared to look at the Halo 3 MP map designers, yet. Any word on those would also be nice.

As for "real geometry", the thing that boggled me was Ghost Town. I recall a person here going outside of the map using the theater mode and outlining how huge it is compared to the actual play-ground of Ghost Town. I don't understand why that was even accessible or created to such lengths since nobody ever went there during the game or could see it due to the high walls and structures.

 

[Slightly Live]

 

[Trasher]

toys

Flat paper toy cutouts? No thanks!

 

[Justinian]

^ Holy sh*t where did those come from

 

[Stinkles]

Flat paper toy cutouts? No thanks!

I knew we shouldn't have picked the 3D modeler from Parappa the Rapper.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

wat

Of course people will care. People will notice. People are awed by complex, nonstatic skyboxes, and they make the game a lot better.

I'm going to assume sarcasm based of your last few posts.

As I said, kudos for Bungie for being able to pull it off, but the way I see it, it's just SO unnecessary.

Especially if doing so is stealing resources from stuff that is FAR more important like AA, AI, Framerate, texture memory or whatever. Even if the power it takes is minimal, it's still power being used for something COMPLETELY unnecessary.

While I hate to bring it up, but it's not like Killzone 2 had real geometry backgrounds with real skyboxes, but people were still wowed by how it looked.

No one was even looking at the background because of how good everything NEAR you looked.

Again, I know it's not apples for apples because KZ2 isn't a big open world or anything like that, but still, I think the resources could be better utilised elsewhere.

 

[enzo_gt]

Someone on here posted the link to these screens taken form the vidoc and just now looking at them I found this one pretty interesting.

Not just because of the grenade launcher but because of how next to the armor abilities it says "Double Kill". Was this something that was added in ODST? If it was before that I apologize, I didn't play a lot of H3 campaign, just one play through.

Why are there two crosshairs? Hmm? And I hope the grenade launcher isn't the same gun that the 'heavy' guy has.

 

[Justinian]

Why are there two crosshairs? Hmm? And I hope the grenade launcher isn't the same gun that the 'heavy' guy has.

Two crosshairs? Where?

Jorge uses a minigun.

 

[Blueblur1]

I knew we shouldn't have picked the 3D modeler from Parappa the Rapper.

:lol

 

[Subtervotion]

Why are there two crosshairs? Hmm? And I hope the grenade launcher isn't the same gun that the 'heavy' guy has.

Two crosshairs? Where?

Jorge uses a minigun.

One of the crosshairs is on the gun itself.

 

[NOKYARD]

Why are there two crosshairs?

See the cylinder behind the reticule on the right?

That is a camera-like thingy found on all human weapons. It projects the targeting reticule you see on the hud which allows you to shoot without using iron sights.

See the same item on the Shottie?

Also raises questions about targeting with Covenant weapons. I would assume they use the same tech.

 

[Princess Carl]

They discuss who were the main people behind the map creations on Halo 2's Multiplayer Map Pack disc.

The most frequent designers are Rob Stokes (Relic, Backwash), Tyson Green (Gemini, Elongation, Turf), Steve Cotton (Containment, Sanctuary), Max Hoberman (Warlock), Chris Carney (Terminal).

Not sure about the Halo 2 maps on the initial disc.

In the Turf video, they were playing 3 Plots. Tyson, bring it back for Reach, plz.

These guys need to be reading this thread right now.

We love your maps, bring them to Reach now.

Also, Ivory Tower guy, Blood Gulch guy, Headlong guy, Backwash guy, Ascension guy, Waterworks guy, Beaver Creek guy, Burial Mounds guy

 

[Justinian]

These guys need to be reading this thread right now.

We love your maps, bring them to Reach now.

Also, Ivory Tower guy, Blood Gulch guy, Headlong guy, Backwash guy, Ascension guy, Waterworks guy, Beaver Creek guy, Burial Mounds guy

They are designing the maps for dual use in both campaign and multiplayer now remember? I'm not sure how this impacts who gets to do what.

 

[Striker]

These guys need to be reading this thread right now.

We love your maps, bring them to Reach now.

Also, Ivory Tower guy, Blood Gulch guy, Headlong guy, Backwash guy, Ascension guy, Waterworks guy, Beaver Creek guy, Burial Mounds guy

Hoberman left some time ago, I believe. Green I know posted on GAF back around 2007 but was chased off by some posters here. :\

I agree with you, plus, Tyson, bring that lovable 3 Plots back for Reach.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Put me on ignore, problem solved.

I said it to bring up a point about games and their design. If people can't realize that the AR is a more user friendly weapon then they're just being butthurt. I understand why it's the starting weapon, and I understand why the majority of the people on this forum have no problem with it. It doesn't mean I have to agree with it, but I know it won't change because of them trying to reach a larger demographic than just the super hardcore competitive MP crowd.

I mentioned no problem; I just find your posts amusing!




More importantly though I do agree with the bolded.

 

[EazyB]

Hoberman left some time ago, I believe. Green I know posted on GAF back around 2007 but was chased off by some posters here. :\

I agree with you, plus, Tyson, bring that lovable 3 Plots back for Reach.

I think it's Tyson Green who's responsible for Orbital. Really is an inexcusably miserable map. Not sure if I'd be able to do anything but harass him into leaving GAF again if he came.

My apologies if Green didn't create that abomination.

 

[Kapura]

I'm going to assume sarcasm based of your last few posts.

As I said, kudos for Bungie for being able to pull it off, but the way I see it, it's just SO unnecessary.

Especially if doing so is stealing resources from stuff that is FAR more important like AA, AI, Framerate, texture memory or whatever. Even if the power it takes is minimal, it's still power being used for something COMPLETELY unnecessary.

While I hate to bring it up, but it's not like Killzone 2 had real geometry backgrounds with real skyboxes, but people were still wowed by how it looked.

No one was even looking at the background because of how good everything NEAR you looked.

Again, I know it's not apples for apples because KZ2 isn't a big open world or anything like that, but still, I think the resources could be better utilised elsewhere.

It boggles my mind that you have so little respect for my opinions that you do not even do me the courtesy of accepting that I truly believe what I am saying. I guess we aren't on the same level of mutual respect that I had thought we were.

Halo is a game about scale, and it always has been. The skyboxes, especially on the Halo rings, do a good job conveying that very broad scale, but there needs to be an intermediate big, somewhere between the level geometry and the skybox. That role is filled by what are primarily low poly, low res objects of great size and great distance. The result is not only a more convincing realization of the world, but also something which can give depth to the game, where people can continue to be impressed long after the first run of the game. While that continuing sense of awe doesn't seem to be important to you, it is certainly very important to me, as it is one more thing that sets Halo apart from other games.

Your argument of these touches reducing memory that can be used on other areas of the game doesn't hold very much weight either. When we are talking about games that have eight bajillion polygons for the AR, a few hundred or even a few thousand polygons in the skybox are just a drop in the ocean. Reclaiming those system resouces wouldn't allow for dramatic improvements in any of the areas you mentioned. Wallpaper backgrounds won't make enemies noticably more intelligent, they won't give back enough to suddenly allow x16 AA, they won't get the game running at sixty frames per second. Ultimately, it is a conscientious decision in which a very little goes much further than it could if devoted to another area of the tech. All of those other alternatives I mentioned are the result of sacrificing more resource heavy elements and clever coding.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

It boggles my mind that you have so little respect for my opinions that you do not even do me the courtesy of accepting that I truly believe what I am saying. I guess we aren't on the same level of mutual respect thatI had thought we were.

Halo is a game about scale, and it always has been. The skyboxes, especially on the Halo rigs, do a good job conveying that very broad scale, but there needs to be an intermediate big, somewhere between the level geometry and the skybox. That role is filled by what are primarily low poly, low res objects of great size and great distance. The result is not only a more convincing realization of the world, but also something which can give depth to the game, where people can continue to be impressed long after the first run of the game. While that continuing sense of awe doesn't seem to be important to you, it is certainly very important to me, as it is one more thing that sets Halo apart from other games.

Your argument of these touches reducing memory that can be used on other areas of the game doesn't hold very much weight either. When we are talking about games that have eight bajillion polygons for the AR, a few hundred or even a few thousand polygons in the skybox are just a drop in the ocean. Reclaiming those system resouces wouldn't allow for dramatic improvements in any of the areas you mentioned. Wallpaper backgrounds won't make enemies noticably more intelligent, they won't give back enough to suddenly allow x16 AA, they won't get the game running at sixty frames per second. Ultimately, it is a conscientious decision in which a very little goes much further than it could if devoted to another area of the tech. All of those other alternatives I mentioned are the result of sacrificing more resource heavy elements and clever coding.

What?:lol

I obviously got my posts mixed up from earlier. When you were talking about invisible barriers being necessary, we agreed on that, so I figured we must have been on the same page about background geometry. hecne why I thought your pst was sarcasm.

Excuse my assumption.

 

[Slightly Live]

The lack of information regarding triple-wielding has left me rather cold on the whole prospect.