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[spermatic cord]

All I want to know is if Shishka will be here to ruin matchmaking

 

[Stinkles]

This. Otherwise I could care less if it's real geometry or just a backdrop that looks real. We should be able to explore if chosen. Halo 1 and Halo 2 were fine (despite some invisible barriers, you could easily find ways to get around them). Sure Halo 3 you can glitch out but even if you do the outside glitches the camera and it repeates the texture all over you screen if you look somewhere you aren't supposed to.

Because it's a goal-based FPS not an open world game.

 

[Apath]

Why waste the resources on real geometry you cannot travel to when pre-rendered will get the job done just as well, maybe even better, and 99% of the populace won't be the wiser?

 

[soldat7]

All I want to know is if Shishka will be here to ruin matchmaking

 

[The Librarian]

Because it's a goal-based FPS not an open world game.

I think all of us here understand that, and that of course is why we're playing the game, but I enjoy getting out of campaign maps because it's plain and simple fun. I mean, there shouldn't be any glitches that get in the way of playing the main game (which is obviously most important).

 

[feel]

 

[Princess Carl]

those eyes!

 

[Raide]

Dat "Soldier" ass.

 

[riceandbeans]

Kickass HDR lighting again...

 

[Ramirez]

God I love my girlfriend. We were playing multi-team last resort and she was getting really frustrated that people kept killing her from a distance. I told her that she had to either hid and wait for them to come close or find a BR then she could start fighting again.

"How do I get a BR?"

"You have to memorize where they spawn, run over and pick them up."

"Why don't we just start with one?"

Did you explain to her that you have to burst fire the AR? I heard that you can shoot from sea wall to the base if you know how to burst your AR.

 

[FFChris]

Im sure the chances are pretty slim. But I would do pretty much anything to see the Halo 2 maps make it to Reach.

In my mind, probably the best map set I've ever played.

Seriously though, anything

Considering how well received the remakes were in Halo 3 (not very) I'm hoping they will stick to original maps. Wouldn't complain if Sanctuary appeared though!

Agree with you about the H2 maps though, best map set I've played in a FPS.

 

[Stinkles]

Why waste the resources on real geometry you cannot travel to when pre-rendered will get the job done just as well, maybe even better, and 99% of the populace won't be the wiser?

The tech supports those distances without adversely impacting anything else - and the "real" distances are more convincing to viewers than a simply skybox and fog.

 

[Louis Wu]

Sierra 117 was the worst offender. And The Covenant was highly deceptive. I remember the media creaming over Tsavo Highway simply because of the lack of backdrops. But really, it didn't add anything to the gameplay.

Wait, wait, let me see if I understand you here:

You're complaining (well, commiserating with someone who's complaining) about the fact that barriers keep you from being able to explore - and in the same breath you're commenting that the real geometry outside those barriers doesn't actually add anything to gameplay?

So which is it? Do you want to explore? Or do you think exploring is a waste of time?

Or are you just looking for things to give Bungie shit about?

 

[Ramirez]

Considering how well received the remakes were in Halo 3 (not very) I'm hoping they will stick to original maps. Wouldn't complain if Sanctuary appeared though!

Agree with you about the H2 maps though, best map set I've played in a FPS.

The only reason they weren't well received is because most of them weren't the originals at all. Heretic is an example of how a map remake should be handled, minus the plasma nade starts.

 

[derFeef]

Kickass HDR lighting again...

How can you tell that from this shot? I would be happy you can explain it to me.

 

[Kuroyume]

The problem with the remakes is that Bungie doesn't understand that people want ports. They simply want ports with nicer looking textures. When Bungie sees this they think... Oh, lets fuck up with the weapon layout, the art, and anything that people liked about the Halo: CE/2 maps.

 

[Princess Carl]

The problem with the remakes is that Bungie doesn't understand that people want ports. They simply want ports with nicer looking textures. When Bungie sees this they think... Oh, lets fuck up with the weapon layout, the art, and anything that people liked about the Halo: CE/2 maps.

I dont think its intentional. I think that the developers want to remake a map because they themselves aren't happy with the original.

Dear Developers,
Don't mess with perfection. The Halo 2 maps do not need to be changed. They do however, need to be put in Reach.
Sincerely,

This guy.

 

[Devin Olsen]

Not trying to plug my own video... But I believe this shows why there should be less barriers... The levels are MASSIVE and tons of fun to explore. I literally had more fun exploring this level then I did playing through the entire Halo ODST campaign.

I do not mean that to sound offensive, it is just the truth.

 

[StriKeVillain]

I dont think its intentional. I think that the developers want to remake a map because they themselves aren't happy with the original.

Dear Developers,
Don't mess with perfection. The Halo 2 maps do not need to be changed. They do however, need to be put in Reach.
Sincerely,

This guy.

Agreed.

 

[Ramirez]

I don't know how you could find it out, but are the people who made most of the Halo 2 maps even at Bungie anymore? There's such a huge drop off in quality, I'd be totally shocked if it were the exact same guys.

 

[Gui_PT]

Not trying to plug my own video... But I believe this shows why there should be less barriers... The levels are MASSIVE and tons of fun to explore. I literally had more fun exploring this level then I did playing through the entire Halo ODST campaign.

I do not mean that to sound offensive, it is just the truth.

I was offended

 

[Chinner]

I dont think its intentional. I think that the developers want to remake a map because they themselves aren't happy with the original.

Dear Developers,
Don't mess with perfection. The Halo 2 maps do not need to be changed. They do however, need to be put in Reach.
Sincerely,

This guy.

its like you can read my mind...

last resort was a disappointment, zanzibar 4 life

 

[Oozer3993]

I don't know.. I always felt Halo should make use of its M-rating. I think it's due to the Flood, but it amazes me a game like Uncharted where you shoot hundreds of realistic looking people gets a Teen rating while Halo, where you're killing semi-cartoony aliens, gets an M rating.

Fun fact: Halo: Combat Evolved was originally rated Teen, but the ESRB changed their minds and told Bungie they'd have to change some parts of the game to make it rated Teen. Bungie decided not to and went with M and the rest is history.

Because it's a goal-based FPS not an open world game.

We're not asking for Grand Theft Auto, all we want is the openness of Halo 1. Halo 1 is, for the most part, an extremely linear game. There is only 1 way to get to and complete a given objective. I don't see how tricks that maybe 1% of players know can ruin the carefully tuned experience intended by the designers. The vast, vast majority of players won't use them or even know of their existence. The invisible walls and death zones that Bungie has taken to adding to the Halo games do practically nothing to reinforce the intended experience because the only people who ever find them are trickers when they are specifically looking for fun outside of the intended experience. While they might be intended to keep players on the correct path to the next planned encounter for a tighter gameplay experience, they rarely, if ever, fulfill that purpose. Creating and testing the walls and zones requires time and resources. That's time and resources that, in my opinion, could be going to a more fruitful pursuit than one that serves almost entirely to frustrate fans of the game.

tl;dr: watz wit da restrkshuns on trikin bungle?

P.S. I could be wrong here. Maybe Bungie has data showing that a sizeable chunk of players got distracted by wandering around where they shouldn't be, but going by anecdotal evidence, which is all I have, I'd say that situation is very rare. But it certainly wouldn't be the first time I was way off base.

P.P.S. Sorry for the rant, I don't mean it in anyway antagonistically, but I really like the tricking in Halo games. The video I posted a little while ago showing me performing several tricks and glitches in Halo is proof of that. The "trickability" of the game did very little to harm the experience for anyone, but added a considerable amount of fun to an already amazing game for those in the tricking community. Heck, H1 is probably the most tricked console game ever and is hugely responsible for the relative boom in tricking since.

 

[Ramirez]

I think you give people far too much credit. There was an article on Halo 3 where they had random people come in and playtest it and they had to change part of Sierra 117 because people couldn't figure out you had to jump on a ledge to get to the next area.

I would find the article, but I'm lazy.

 

[Chinner]

I was offended

i'm offended by the music choice. jesus christ.

 

[Oozer3993]

I think you give people far too much credit. There was an article on Halo 3 where they had random people come in and playtest it and they had to change part of Sierra 117 because people couldn't figure out you had to jump on a ledge to get to the next area.

I would find the article, but I'm lazy.

If I remember that article correctly, they actually mention adding in ledges because players were getting turned around and going the wrong way, back to the very start of the level. So they added in ledges that were too high to jump over to make that impossible so as funnel you to the desired point. The area can be a little monotonous since it's all trees and rocks surrounding a river. Even an experienced player could get a little confused the first time through and end up going the wrong way.

And I'd argue that the less bright a player is, the less likely he or she is to run into the walls or death zones. The intended way is almost always the simplest way.

 

[feel]

How can you tell that from this shot? I would be happy you can explain it to me.

The marines are being lit up by blue light shining from lwg's visor, originating from a covie dropship exploding two miles away. Impressive.

Spoiler

not a killzone 2 gif

 

[Ramirez]

If I remember that article correctly, they actually mention adding in ledges because players were getting turned around and going the wrong way, back to the very start of the level. So they added in ledges that were too high to jump over to make that impossible so as funnel you to the desired point. The area can be a little monotonous since it's all trees and rocks surrounding a river. Even an experienced player could get a little confused the first time through and end up going the wrong way.

And I'd argue that the less bright a player is, the less likely he or she is to run into the walls or death zones. The intended way is almost always the simplest way.

Perhaps, but from where they're standing, it's just simpler to put the barriers up and make sure it doesn't happen.

 

[Thagomizer]

One way to solve this that would be acceptible for everybody is to have the AI/Carter/whoever start yelling at you if you go too far in the opposite direction; say, if you go 1000m back from the farthest reached point, Carter will come over the radio and tell you that you already cleared that sector, you're going the wrong way, you'll be marked as a deserter, etc.

 

[Syracuse022]

I think you give people far too much credit. There was an article on Halo 3 where they had random people come in and playtest it and they had to change part of Sierra 117 because people couldn't figure out you had to jump on a ledge to get to the next area.

I would find the article, but I'm lazy.

I think you're referring to an article by Clive Thompson in Wired, September 2007: "The Game: Halo 3 - How Microsoft Labs Invented A New Science Of Play." Bungie proudly points to the fact that they're testing in new ways with new demographics (soccer moms).

Sitting in an office chair and frowning slightly, Randy Pagulayan peers through a one-way mirror. The scene on the other side looks like the game room in a typical suburban house: There's a large flat-panel TV hooked up to an Xbox 360, and a 34-year-old woman is sprawled in a comfy chair, blasting away at huge Sasquatchian aliens. It's June, and the woman is among the luckier geeks on the planet. She's playing Halo 3...

...

Midway through the first level, his test subject stumbles into an area cluttered with boxes, where aliens - chattering little Grunts and howling, towering Brutes - quickly surround her. She's butchered in about 15 seconds. She keeps plowing back into the same battle but gets killed over and over again

"Here's the problem," Pagulayan mutters, motioning to a computer monitor that shows us the game from the player's perspective. he points to a bunch of grenades lying on the ground. She ought to be picking those up and using them, he says, but the grenades aren't visible enough. "There's a million of them, but she just missed them, dammit. She charged right in." He shakes his head. "That's not acceptable."

Frankie mentioned similar efforts in a weekly update prior to Halo 2's release (the article mentions this initiative as well, while conceding that it didn't seem to do a whole lot for Halo 2's rushed campaign). My problem with the "soccer mom playtest" is that the soccer moms of the world are not the ones who: 1) drove the success of the first game or 2) are likely to drive the success of the franchise, well, ever. I like the idea of applying some science to improving the user experience, but catering to the lowest common denominator or tiny fractions of the overall market just seems counter-productive.

By contrast, some of their other work has had some very good results (say, giving us heat maps to look at in online stats and, more importantly, balancing what I consider the game's best map):

In April, Bungie found a nagging problem with Valhalla, one of Halo 3's multiplayer levels: Player deaths (represented in dark red on this "heat map" of the level) were skewing toward the base on the left, indicating that forces invading from the right had a slight advantage. After reviewing this image, designers tweaked the terrain to give both armies an even chance.

The testing is a mixed bag, I guess, but I can't figure out why Bungie doesn't embrace the portion of the market they should actually be catering to... Fewer soccer moms in the comfy chair on the other side of the one-way mirror, more Walshy and Randall Glass-type figures, in addition to more typical representatives of the community (i.e. males 14-35). I have a feeling they would've gotten a lot more feedback on relevant gameplay considerations (BR spread, dual wielding, etc.), and spent a lot less time moving around piles of grenades. To be sure, weapon spawn placement is of the utmost importance, but modifying it for a 34 year old woman's idea of what a science fiction shooter experience should be seems like a fool's errand.

 

[Ramirez]

Frankie mentioned similar efforts in a weekly update prior to Halo 2's release (the article mentions this initiative as well, while conceding that it didn't seem to do a whole lot for Halo 2's rushed campaign). My problem with the "soccer mom playtest" initiative is that the soccer moms of the world are not the ones who: 1) drove the success of the first game or 2) are likely to drive the success of the franchise, well, ever. I like the idea of applying some science to improving the user experience, but catering to the lowest common denominator or tiny fractions of the overall market just seems counter-productive.

What do you think the AR is? It's an extremely easy weapon to use, aim, hold down trigger, results.

Games are usually always built around the lowest common denominator, let's just be glad they give us the option for more depth if we choose to find it.

 

[derFeef]

The marines are being lit up by blue light shining from lwg's visor, originating from a covie dropship exploding two miles away. Impressive.

Spoiler

not a killzone 2 gif

Okay. Still do not know what this has do to with HDR lighting though.

Scene looks good (besides the unfinished parts) and I really want to know why the marines are pointing the gun at the spartans. No speculation on this?

 

[Gui_PT]

Okay. Still do not know what this has do to with HDR lighting though.

Scene looks good (besides the unfinished parts) and I really want to know why the marines are pointing the gun at the spartans. No speculation on this?

It's dangerous when helicopters are picking up soldiers, it's a very vulnerable situation. I assume those marines are just making sure everything's fine

 

[squidhands]

Scene looks good (besides the unfinished parts) and I really want to know why the marines are pointing the gun at the spartans. No speculation on this?

Seems like they're providing cover more than aiming at the Spartans. The picture below shows the Marines aiming over the head of Noble 6, at a potential target further behind him.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Seems like they're providing cover more than aiming at the Spartans. The picture below shows the Marines aiming over the head of Noble 6, at a potential target further behind him.

Yeah, I initially thought they were aiming at the Spartan as well, who was raising his hand. But they're aiming past him, and the facing Spartan reaches for his weapon.

Would be a pretty interesting development if they were aiming at him, but that's not something I'd want to know about in advance of release.

 

[dilatedmuscle]

If the Elites are bigger in MP, I wonder we'll have the option to be Brutes? Can't see it myself but you never know. Not that I'd use one anyway, Security or bust!

Spoiler

I'm guessing no Security in Reach now I've said that :*(

I think we have a bit of an avatar dilema.

Is there anyway to find out who had it first?

 

[Gui_PT]

I think we have a bit of an avatar dilema.

Is there anyway to find out who had it first?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19806067&postcount=12567

 

[godhandiscen]

Because it's a goal-based FPS not an open world game.

Have you played Crysis? Take it for a spin.

 

[Striker]

I don't know how you could find it out, but are the people who made most of the Halo 2 maps even at Bungie anymore? There's such a huge drop off in quality, I'd be totally shocked if it were the exact same guys.

They discuss who were the main people behind the map creations on Halo 2's Multiplayer Map Pack disc.

The most frequent designers are Rob Stokes (Relic, Backwash), Tyson Green (Gemini, Elongation, Turf), Steve Cotton (Containment, Sanctuary), Max Hoberman (Warlock), Chris Carney (Terminal).

Not sure about the Halo 2 maps on the initial disc.

In the Turf video, they were playing 3 Plots. Tyson, bring it back for Reach, plz.

 

[dilatedmuscle]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19806067&postcount=12567

coo coo. Thanks. Ill go change it back lol

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Ramirez you really bring up that AR alot.:lol

 

[Gui_PT]

coo coo. Thanks. Ill go change it back lol

Just put sum buff arms on that elite

 

[Kapura]

People in this thread, it seems, will find anything to whine at length about.

You know why Bungie (or any other competent linear game maker) puts up invisible barriers? To keep people in the level. Ultimately, it's better game design if people can't escape a level. If you want a game where you can just explore, try Fallout or going outside.

You are the kinds of people who get your jollies from breaking the game. I have no problem with that; it's just, like, your opinion, man. But Bungie isn't going to cater to what you want, no matter how long your post is. And then you're going to complain some more, and I am going to sad. Some glitches are useful (like being able to geomerge in Forge), but when it comes down to it, a bug is a bug, no matter how fun.

Dedicated to the memory of the Brute Pimp Chieftain, 2008-2009. RIP.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

Glad to see others are now addressing this issue as opposed to when I was basically talking to myself about it ages ago.

It's cool and a nice 'bullet point' that all of Halo 3/Reach's backdrops are 'actual geometry', but seriously what's the point?

If a static image will look EXACTLY the same, which it will, then why use up processing power to create those backdrops? Even if it doesn't take much, I'd still rather it gets used on something more useful/important.

I'm not going to ask to be allowed to travel to those backdrops, that would be stupid. Why would I want to wander aimlessly in an empty landscape that adds nothing to the game? But, since it's not part of the game proper, and it's there for NOHTING more than aesthetic, then why use real geometry?

I just don't get it. NO ONE will know or care about the difference.

 

[Gui_PT]

People in this thread, it seems, will find anything to whine at length about.

You know why Bungie (or any other competent linear game maker) puts up invisible barriers? To keep people in the level. Ultimately, it's better game design if people can't escape a level. If you want a game where you can just explore, try Fallout or going outside.

Halo 2. Delta Halo. Try it.

 

[big ander]

People in this thread, it seems, will find anything to whine at length about.

You know why Bungie (or any other competent linear game maker) puts up invisible barriers? To keep people in the level. Ultimately, it's better game design if people can't escape a level. If you want a game where you can just explore, try Fallout or going outside.

You are the kinds of people who get your jollies from breaking the game. I have no problem with that; it's just, like, your opinion, man. But Bungie isn't going to cater to what you want, no matter how long your post is. And then you're going to complain some more, and I am going to sad. Some glitches are useful (like being able to geomerge in Forge), but when it comes down to it, a bug is a bug, no matter how fun.

Dedicated to the memory of the Brute Pimp Chieftain, 2008-2009. RIP.

What is that nonsense

Didn't somebody on Gaf find the chieftan in the retail game?

 

[rar]

Out of interest, how many people actually enjoy using the AR, if in some odd world the AR was long range would you use it then?

I personally just dont get much enjoyment out of the thing, like the rockets/ sword or shotgun, even if it was insanely powerful I would still avoid it.

i dont

it just doesnt feel powerful or cool. alot of the weapons in halo 3 don't. compare the energy sword in 2 with the one in 3, or the ar or rockets in 1 to 3... im not sure if its just the sound effects or the animation, but they just arent very satisfying

 

[Oozer3993]

Halo 2. Delta Halo. Try it.

Why? He can just get the exact same thing from Fallout 3.

 

[Justinian]

Glad to see others are now addressing this issue as opposed to when I was basically talking to myself about it ages ago.

It's cool and a nice 'bullet point' that all of Halo 3/Reach's backdrops are 'actual geometry', but seriously what's the point?

If a static image will look EXACTLY the same, which it will, then why use up processing power to create those backdrops? Even if it doesn't take much, I'd still rather it gets used on something more useful/important.

I'm not going to ask to be allowed to travel to those backdrops, that would be stupid. Why would I want to wander aimlessly in an empty landscape that adds nothing to the game? But, since it's not part of the game proper, and it's there for NOHTING more than aesthetic, then why use real geometry?

I just don't get it. NO ONE will know or care about the difference.

Because it gives a sense of scale that matt paintings cannot. You can have cool things like a ship flying in from far far away or some other events that you couldn't just do with a image or skybox.

See The Ark or The Storm in Halo 3 for a great example. All that far off geometry certainly does add something.

 

[dilatedmuscle]

heres an update of an emile wallpaper im working on.