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[soldat7]

Will there be Forerunner goodness on Reach?

 

[∀ Narayan]

I still think that the announcement trailer is still the best announcement trailer ever made. The composition, dialogue, editing etc is above most movie trailers, let alone game trailers.

I don't think Bungie has it anymore to make these kind of trailers, as they might be the result of one man's vision behind them, and that genius apparently left Bungie.

Alexander Seropian.

I wish Halo 2 was remotely like the announcement trailer and E3 demo. Oh, what could have been.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

The point that is trying to be made about the Cortana segments from Halo 3, is that the gameplay suffered because of them. Walking along and you're suddenly slowed to crawed, breaking the game pace in a weird way.
It wasn't always bad (end of Crow's Nest it works well) but these moments are in the minority.

Halo 3's narrative is bad. Ultimately that's the truth at the end of the road.

Will there be Forerunner goodness on Reach?

There is Forerunner stuff underground on Reach, but nothing big, I doubt it'll be a part of the game.

I don't think Bungie has it anymore to make these kind of trailers, as they might be the result of one man's vision behind them, and that genius apparently left Bungie.

I'd disagree, I thinl the Halo 3 announcement trailer is better than those.

 

[Kimosabae]

And the videogame you have to play is terrible.

Are there any legitimate black characters in the Halo universe? Johnson is such a lame character that I'm surprised he doesn't start speaking in jive or make references to hip hop whenever he's on screen.

What's your definition of a "legitimate black character"?

There's always the danger of a black character under representing their race, or becoming a hyperbolized parody of it - largely because video games are mainly developed by ethnocentric white males.

I think Johnson is done relatively well, considering the genre, and is probably the only black video game character I've seen worth respecting at all, outside the GTA games. He definitely has that quasi-hyperbolized, Sam Jackson, 70s era pulp fiction characterization about him, which makes him endearing to whites - I can see that being an issue if you're a SJ hater.

*shrug*

My main concern in this regard is the general lack of minorities in the Marines - especially considering this is supposed a federation of entire planets of humans, there's certainly a ton of white males to go around.


***
I also like Halo 1s cut scenes the best. The humans had none of the god awful bump mapping technology and the Covenant weren't Shakespearean personifications. Ugh, these last few games are so terrible.

It's truly a testament to the original game's greatness that its momentum can carry my interest in the franchise up to this point, in spite of those games.

F=MA

 

[Proelite]

Alexander Seropian.

I wish Halo 2 was remotely like the announcement trailer and E3 demo. Oh, what could have been.

There was a level of badassesery and swagger to Halo, including the trailers, during the 2001-2003 years that went missing since 2004. It has been mostly cheese since then, with the exception of the Bloomkamp shorts and the live action commercials for Halo 3 and ODST. Hopefully the Gears dude they brought on can bring some semblance of that back, even though Gears is cheesier than Halo. I see parts of the swagger in the end to the Reach trailer, where the nuke lights up the sky and throws around the crazy lightning.

 

[GhaleonEB]

If you read the 'Human Weakness' short story in the new Halo Evolutions book, that pretty much explains all the weird shit she was spouting and why. The whole story is about what happens between the Gravemind and Cortana at the end of Halo 2.

I'll just repost what I wrote before on that subject in a different thread.

I hate to say it, but I've lost interest in the story of the Halo universe, especially in the extended fiction. I bought but only got about 30 pages into Cole Protocol. I really enjoy the Halo universe, but that enjoyment is tied to the games. And I have a lot of questions about the fiction in the games, especially the back story, but have no interest in purchasing a trilogy of books or anime to have them answered. To me the proper context to address them is in the game, and Bungie declined to do so, opting for three games of hints and allusions. I'm not chasing that rabbit any further down the hole.

I like the stories in so far as they directly connect to the games - setting them up or spanning between them - but I've never been able to get very far into extended universe stuff for any type of game or film. So I probably won't be picking up any of the new fiction in its various formats (though I have the Halo Encyclopedia on order).

/////

I still have the music from the trailer stuck in mah brain. It's gooood. So Marty's tweet has me hoping it means what I think it means. So I can slap it on repeat for hours on end. :lol

 

[pringles]

There is Forerunner stuff underground on Reach, but nothing big, I doubt it'll be a part of the game.

Nothing big?? What's down there is HUGE, epic and from the descriptions amazingly beautiful. We'll probably not see it because the Spartans that the game centers around never go down there (as far as we know). Would be awesome to see in a movie though.. I was actually hoping that the structure buried outside of Mombasa would be something similar to what's on Reach, but sadly it wasn't.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I'll just repost what I wrote before on that subject in a different thread.

I still have the music from the trailer stuck in mah brain. It's gooood. So Marty's tweet has me hoping it means what I think it means. So I can slap it on repeat for hours on end. :lol

Let it be said that The Cole Protocal is pretty poor, the only of the books I haven't re-read, so I can understand not finishing it.

 

[WJD]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who loved Halo 2's story. It had massive flaws, but it felt so epic at times that I didn't really care.

The Arbiter was also a bit of a bad-ass.

One more thing:

Can someone make this

edit- one more for the pile

Into 90x120 avatar size?

I'll love you forever.

 

[joey_z]

I'll just repost what I wrote before on that subject in a different thread.



/////

I still have the music from the trailer stuck in mah brain. It's gooood. So Marty's tweet has me hoping it means what I think it means. So I can slap it on repeat for hours on end. :lol

At the end of the day, Bungie is a profit making company. It will do whatever helps it make profit and retain customers. It's regrettable that business influences the video game plot. I don't mind it alluding to certain aspects that can be further delved into via purchased merchandise but when you don't understand a major plot line like Cortana's rampancy until you buy into a short story, then I have a problem. The games thus begin to scream as franchise buffers and not as potential art.

 

[GhaleonEB]

At the end of the day, Bungie is a profit making company. It will do whatever helps it make profit and retain customers. It's regrettable that business influences the video game plot. I don't mind it alluding to certain aspects that can be further delved into via purchased merchandise but when you don't understand a major plot line like Cortana's rampancy until you buy into a short story, then I have a problem. The games thus begin to scream as franchise buffers and not as potential art.

This is true, but it applies much more to Microsoft than to Bungie. The flaws in Halo's story telling stem from Bungie's internal struggles with telling their story, not with their desire to sell merch. (Though they want to do that too, and more power to'em.)

 

[Shake Appeal]

I really should go back and finish my "story/writing in ODST" review/critique thingy, especially now that I have Reach on the brain. Someone somewhere might find it interesting.

 

[The Librarian]

Will there be Forerunner goodness on Reach?

Oh god I hope so. Compared to other videogames, there's nothing that combines alien structures and beautiful environments as well as Forerunner settings. There's also nothing quite like exploring them.

There better be some Forerunner stuff in Reach.

 

[NeXuSDK]

It's almost 2010. We have skippable cutscenes. Also, MGS 4 seems to have sold fairly well. A well told story does not have to have long cut scenes. In fact I think it would do Bungie more good in the eyes of the casual gamer if they became better at delivering the story. It's not like the Halo plot requires too much thought and introspection. It's science fiction balls to the wall action. A schism here, some quirky characters there. It should not be dumbed down assuming that the casual gamer is a vegetable. A captivating story captivates.

It's true MGS4 sold well, but first of all, the MGS audience is used to story taking up a large chunk of the game, with the gameplay also being more slow-paced and story fit in that sense. And second, I think many of those who bought it came to despise the cutscenes at a certain point, but that's just because they're so god damn long.

And yes, it is 2010 and it's possible to skip cutscenes. Not like these two things have anything to do with each other. But as a creator, you don't want anybody to skip your cutscenes, because you want them to follow whatever story is in their.

But you are completely wrong saying the plot does not require much thought. Now THAT would piss off fans of the lore. It needs exactly that, if anything. But yes, whatever is presented in the game should captivate and they've not always succeeded with that. All I'm saying is that it's a fine balance trying to both present a story thin enough for the more casual, non-caring players to not be annoyed and for the story fans to be intrigued.

 

[NeXuSDK]

At the end of the day, Bungie is a profit making company. It will do whatever helps it make profit and retain customers. It's regrettable that business influences the video game plot. I don't mind it alluding to certain aspects that can be further delved into via purchased merchandise but when you don't understand a major plot line like Cortana's rampancy until you buy into a short story, then I have a problem. The games thus begin to scream as franchise buffers and not as potential art.

That's BS. Although the Halo books are probably making a decent profit, it's too little for Microsoft to care about. In reality, the Halo books come from Bungies and others' passion for the franchise and the lore, and the short story is not there just to make a profit from a hole in the Halo 3 story. It's there to tell what could or would not be told in Halo 3, for anybody who cares about.

Jeez, how can you seriously think it's a profit-making movie to remove one short tale from Halo 3 in order to sell it through a short-story collection? That's the dumbest thing I've heard all year...

 

[joey_z]

This is true, but it applies much more to Microsoft than to Bungie. The flaws in Halo's story telling stem from Bungie's internal struggles with telling their story, not with their desire to sell merch. (Though they want to do that too, and more power to'em.)

That is a good point. I forgot that it is in fact MS that owns the Halo franchise and not Bungie. Yet, Bungie does have the right to choose what they do with their fiction. If something was missed out in the games and they want to make clear what exactly took place, there are a bunch of ways to reach the fanbase about it without having to make a product.

But of course you're right, the company doesn't really owe anything to its consumers so if it can make a profit in a plausible business idea, then it may as well.

 

[Thermite]

Into 90x120 avatar size?

I'll love you forever.

Here's a quick attempt:

 

[∀ Narayan]

I always say that, after releasing Halo 1, Bungie should have just made an Xbox Live enabled, multiplayer only version of Halo 1 to buy themselves some time to make Halo 2 for the Xbox 360. (Remember Halo 1.5?) I'm sure they would have had enough time to create the game that could have been. Not only that, they probably wouldn't have run into any technical shortcomings for Halo 2 either.

Oh well, I guess.

 

[feel]

update: A few are already claimed, so please check the next few pages before grabbing one. Thanks.

up for grabs if anyone is interested:

 

[WJD]

Here's a quick attempt:

I love you forever!

Thanks as well, Letters.

 

[Jonsoncao]

Will there be Forerunner goodness on Reach?

based on my understanding of Halo Wars

I think the ans should be Yes

 

[joey_z]

It's true MGS4 sold well, but first of all, the MGS audience is used to story taking up a large chunk of the game, with the gameplay also being more slow-paced and story fit in that sense. And second, I think many of those who bought it came to despise the cutscenes at a certain point, but that's just because they're so god damn long.

And yes, it is 2010 and it's possible to skip cutscenes. Not like these two things have anything to do with each other. But as a creator, you don't want anybody to skip your cutscenes, because you want them to follow whatever story is in their.

But you are completely wrong saying the plot does not require much thought. Now THAT would piss off fans of the lore. It needs exactly that, if anything. But yes, whatever is presented in the game should captivate and they've not always succeeded with that. All I'm saying is that it's a fine balance trying to both present a story thin enough for the more casual, non-caring players to not be annoyed and for the story fans to be intrigued.

Sorry if I didn't make my self clear. I meant that it doesn't require much thought for the gamer to understand. It's not exactly Russian literature.

MGS 4 sold very well to the casual gamer and s/he loved it. Do I have anything to back up that statement? Not really. Just gathered it from message board posts and conversation. I personally don't think MGS 4 is written well (at all), which just proves that if long monotonous cut scenes don't deter gamers, Bungie should have no problem fleshing out its story.

Of course you don't want anyone skipping your cut scenes. However that is not a good reason to dumb down or cut a game's story. Even a casual gamer will enjoy good dialogue. Aren't Mass Effect sales testament to that? Casual gamers really don't need to be specifically catered for when plotting a story. A good story will hold its own against any type of gamer.

That's BS. Although the Halo books are probably making a decent profit, it's too little for Microsoft to care about. In reality, the Halo books come from Bungies and others' passion for the franchise and the lore, and the short story is not there just to make a profit from a hole in the Halo 3 story. It's there to tell what could or would not be told in Halo 3, for anybody who cares about.

Jeez, how can you seriously think it's a profit-making movie to remove one short tale from Halo 3 in order to sell it through a short-story collection? That's the dumbest thing I've heard all year...

No profit is too little for a company to care about. Businesses don't work like that. If MS actually felt that way, hundreds if not thousands of MS financed mini projects would not exist. That would cost millions upon millions of dollars.

Passion and profit are not mutually exclusive. In fact the latter is a goal, the former is a means (intentional or unintentional).

And the short story example was just that: an example. I'm not going to list every thing MS or Bungie have profited from.

 

[szaromir]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who loved Halo 2's story. It had massive flaws, but it felt so epic at times that I didn't really care.

Yeah, I remember saying 'holy shit' when I first watched this cutscene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpABAyziy_0
Halo 3 cutscenes didn't dome remotely close to the epicness of Halo 2 cutscenes. Still, I think the first one had the best. The Jenkins one was classic.

 

[WJD]

Y'know what I miss?

The Halo 3 screenshot thread.

 

[Talon]

Here is a quick summary of the story: - very spoilerific for those who want to read it for the first time...

Spoiler

Basically cortana wasn't going into or suffering from Rampancy. Cortana really underestimated the Gravemind's abilities who quickly managed to infiltrate Cortana's code and memory. He didn't have full access to her memory core but he was able to trick her into revealing alot of what she held secret, including her fear of Rampancy. So he used this against her and bombarded her with strong emotions such as doubt, fear, confusion and the idea that she had been betrayed by those who she held dear.

He also forced the memories of beings he had previously absorbed on her. Making her relive the points where they where consumed. Eventually, she became so overwhelmed with all the violations from the Gravemind that she was starting to lose control. His other approach was to tease her with the one thing an AI wants - information. The Gravemind had this in abundance due to all the memories of the millions, if not billions, of life forms the Gravemind had absorbed. He new that by literally flooding her with the one thing she desired, it would be too much for her and she would become Rampant - then making her easy pickings for the Gravemind to absorb.

At the point the Chief starts hearing her rambling in Halo 3. She was close to being fully absorbed by the Gravemind and she knew this. However, a small portion of her was able to tap into High Charity's internal sensors and picked up a 'Human' life form. She convinced herself that it had to be the chief and in a last desperate act, tried to stall the Graveminds advanced into her systems, by bombarding him with non essential information. Some of the words she screamed was also some of the memories of other absorbed beings flowing through her.

So, when the chief frees her, the Gravemind no longer has his grips on her and thus all the hallucinations and tricks he was playing on her fell apart. Hence why she sort of returns to semi-normal....

...and this doesn't sound like a tacked-on explanation at all? Especially this part:

Spoiler

However, a small portion of her was able to tap into High Charity's internal sensors and picked up a 'Human' life form.

 

[duk]

halo's anniversary is in 2 years right... i wonder if bungie will do a remake of CE and put it on live with online mp n co-op

 

[Major Williams]

I'll just repost what I wrote before on that subject in a different thread.



/////

I still have the music from the trailer stuck in mah brain. It's gooood. So Marty's tweet has me hoping it means what I think it means. So I can slap it on repeat for hours on end. :lol

While I agree with you, I also heartily think that Bungie is chalk full of quality engineers/artists/ storytellers who can still make the universe compelling and fresh. The only problem is that their publishers are too afraid to let them venture out. Either that or some of the managers/sups in Bungie like their ideas of modded Hawks too much that they don't include other aspects that other artists might be making and going with what their instincts tell them. And this, in my opinion, is clouding what we see out of Bungie, if ever so slightly: older folks sticking to their older opinions and ways. H3ODST was not as spectacular of an offering as we would have liked to see simply because they rehashed the past just like every other game with a slight twist. There was nothing new in the ending of ODST except for a crappy anti-climactic firefight at the end of a typical warthog run.

With Reach, I see the darker mood, the better music (thanks Marty), and the possibility of something spectacular. I also saw the same with Halo 3 and its trailers, and that disappointed me severely in comparison with what I was given. Because of this, and ODST, I have lowered my expectation of what is to come from Reach. I can have all the fantastic ideas I want, but I most likely won't get them. I'll get some levels that feel similar to 'this level' from Halo 1, and 'this situation' from Halo 3 and then get in a warthog for a final run to whatever at the end of the game. I want something new from Halo. I love Halo, they made it a franchise. Now make a new standard for ending a game.

Yes, 90% of the Halo audience is a layman and cares very little about the story - but 50% of that 90% is swayed by their nerdy friend who says whether or not to buy Halo because of this and that. Look at Halo Wars.

/pessimism

I loved the trailer though. And the music (yes, I did).

Edit: Finally got member status!

 

[Chorazin]

There was nothing new in the ending of ODST except for a crappy anti-climactic firefight at the end of a typical warthog run.

Did you get together with friends or GAF-folk and do the Deja-Vu acheivement? Makes the end level so much different and 100x better, IMO

 

[Magni]

halo's ten yearanniversary is in 2 years right... i wonder if bungie will do a remake of CE and put it on live with online mp n co-op

They should have done it for its seventh anniversary IMO. I'm still praying for at least the Halo level from CE to be at the end of Reach's campaign, but the chances of that are virtually nil =(

 

[NullPointer]

To me the proper context to address them is in the game, and Bungie declined to do so, opting for three games of hints and allusions. I'm not chasing that rabbit any further down the hole.

Couldn't agree with this sentiment more. I know some Halo fans out there like to hunt down every last nook and cranny of detail, but the fact is all of these story elements should be readily apparent "in game". Halo 1 and 2 were fine for this imo. I was never lost, but I wanted to know more, figuring that Halo 3 would wrap everything in a nice tidy bow and end the tale. Instead I got a mish-mash of unexplained bits supposedly elucidated by terminals which churned out gibberish to all except those already initiated in Halo's extended mysteries.

Its almost like Bungie didn't want a casual player to know what the hell was going on.

 

[Captain Blood]

up for grabs if anyone is interested:

Dibs if that is alright with everyone. Awesome work letters.

Spoiler

Sorry but I gotta rep the Spartan II if it is availiable

 

[Lucius86]

I loved the trailer though. And the music (yes, I did).

Me too, I really liked Marty's new style. Very impressive stuff!

 

[duk]

Me too, I really liked Marty's new style. Very impressive stuff!

watching it in 720p with the volume turned up is really hawt... great stuff... i just hope the gameplay gfx comes close!

 

[Major Williams]

Did you get together with friends or GAF-folk and do the Deja-Vu acheivement? Makes the end level so much different and 100x better, IMO

It was fun, a TON of fun, but this was not the original design, and not how a single player would flesh it out. And it wound up being the same anyways: a run to the end just like H1 and 3. H2 mixed it up and I LOVED it.

Arbiter had an aerial battle to the relic to take out Tartarus and his pack
MC had to battle his way on foot through semi-infested High Charity to get to a portal.

 

[big ander]

So I had watched the reveal cutscene on my computer in 720p several times, but I just got around to watching it in HD off of the marketplace on my nice TV.


Damn.

 

[∀ Narayan]

So I had watched the reveal cutscene on my computer in 720p several times, but I just got around to watching it in HD off of the marketplace on my nice TV.


Damn.

Yeah. It's even sweeter if you've got a surround setup. When that plasma eruption/slipstream rupture occurs at the end - my subwoofer throws the bass out. Awesome.

They should have done it for its seventh anniversary IMO. I'm still praying for at least the Halo level from CE to be at the end of Reach's campaign, but the chances of that are virtually nil =(

What are you talking about?

 

[GhaleonEB]

While I agree with you, I also heartily think that Bungie is chalk full of quality engineers/artists/ storytellers who can still make the universe compelling and fresh. The only problem is that their publishers are too afraid to let them venture out.

This makes no sense. Bungie had more freedom than most internal developers in Microsoft do do their own thing. The failings of their story telling were theirs alone.

ODST was disappointing from a game design perspective, but the storytelling - the clarity, cleverness and payoff - was Bungie's best effort to date. IMO, of course.

One last comment on the topic, then I'll drop it (since it's a total tangent).

Since the formation of 343 Industries, they've announced or released the Halo Encyclopedia, a new short story collection, an anime collection, a trilogy of novels and more. We know they're working on games, and those take time, but for now it's all about the other Halo products.

And on Bungie.net, there's a job opening for a writing lead. And among the qualifications for that lead:

• Exceptional creative writing skills, especially in service of vivid, complex, memorable characters
• Minimum 5 years game industry experience or two, shipped AAA games; branching or non-linear narrative experience a plus
• Solid track record of team leadership
• Excellent design and artistic sensibilities; straight-up mission or character design experience a plus
• High level of comfort in a collaborative writing process; solitary scribes need not apply
• Zero desire to parlay your game writing experience into a film, TV show, novel &c.

I think that spells out the difference between how Bungie wants to handle their new IP and Microsoft's approach to Halo.

All that said, I'm really looking forward to the tale in Reach. Similar to ODST, it can both be a self-contained tale, and have connections to the broader Halo story. With the improved story telling in ODST, I think Bungie might be hitting their stride in that department. And I have no doubt that my issues with the design and feature set of ODS had more to do with the scope of that project than the skill set of the people working on it. I expect Reach will outclass Halo 3 in every department.

 

[charsace]

Good looking out.

 

[Major Williams]

This makes no sense. Bungie had more freedom than most internal developers in Microsoft do do their own thing. The failings of their story telling were theirs alone.

ODST was disappointing from a game design perspective, but the storytelling - the clarity, cleverness and payoff - was Bungie's best effort to date. IMO, of course.

One last comment on the topic, then I'll drop it (since it's a total tangent).

Since the formation of 343 Industries, they've announced or released the Halo Encyclopedia, a new short story collection, an anime collection, a trilogy of novels and more. We know they're working on games, and those take time, but for now it's all about the other Halo products.

And on Bungie.net, there's a job opening for a writing lead. And among the qualifications for that lead:
List

I think that spells out the difference between how Bungie wants to handle their new IP and Microsoft's approach to Halo.

All that said, I'm really looking forward to the tale in Reach. Similar to ODST, it can both be a self-contained tale, and have connections to the broader Halo story. With the improved story telling in ODST, I think Bungie might be hitting their stride in that department. And I have no doubt that my issues with the design and feature set of ODS had more to do with the scope of that project than the skill set of the people working on it. I expect Reach will outclass Halo 3 in every department.

Agreed. Which is why I had my secondary reason as well. I had to put the publisher bit in there just for safety from GAF critics.

Back on topic:

That's definitely Jorge. Awesome sauce.

Also, judging by the main menu:

There's gonna be Forerunner relics in there for sure. How much a part of the main story? We'll see.

Kind of disappointed going back and reading Morello's impressions of Reach - how the gameplay is largely the same with some different weapons and the fact that the AI plays the same. Hopefully this will change... but for now I'm merely expecting an upgraded AA'd Halo 3.

 

[Keikoku]

Oh god I hope so. Compared to other videogames, there's nothing that combines alien structures and beautiful environments as well as Forerunner settings. There's also nothing quite like exploring them.

There better be some Forerunner stuff in Reach.

QFT

 

[Rad Agast]

What are you talking about?

Halo Combat Evolved starts right after they escape Reach.

 

[Shake Appeal]

• Zero desire to parlay your game writing experience into a film, TV show, novel &c.

To be honest, this probably has less to do with an overall strategy for "franchising" and more to do with possessing the desire (and professional courtesy) to work for Bungie as a games writer, and not use the opportunity as a stepping stone or holdover until your (manu)script finally gets bought.

 

[EazyB]

So good.

 

[NullPointer]

So good.

<3

 

[SolidEyeSystem]

Going to take this guy loading his magazine, thanks for making them Letters.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

Kind of disappointed going back and reading Morello's impressions of Reach - how the gameplay is largely the same with some different weapons and the fact that the AI plays the same. Hopefully this will change... but for now I'm merely expecting an upgraded AA'd Halo 3.

Eh one mans opinion, and really don't know the gameplay quality of the build he played. Could have had early systems in place and what not.

 

[BerserkerBarage]

Speaking of "so good" the whole "haters gonna hate" picture in the OP is funny as hell. Best play on a terrible internet meme I've seen in a long time. So cheers to whoever did that one.

I'm surprised so many people have focused on the BR in the trailer when the same character is carrying what looks like a M6 pistol.

~B.B.

 

[big ander]

another edit-

some more:

Really want one of these...but I gotta stick with my Christmas spirit.

 

[Exypher]

Was there a lot of combat on the ground at Reach? How many teams of spartans were actually on the surface?

 

[EazyB]

Lost interest in the story after CE. 2 had some nifty cutscenes. It's a damn good thing they deliver in the gameplay department. I mean really deliver.

I'm surprised so many people have focused on the BR in the trailer when the same character is carrying what looks like a M6 pistol.

~B.B.

Could be either: