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[cryptoadam]

Hamas Paid Gaza Family $2,200 to Blame Israel for Baby's Death

Under interrogation in Israel, Omar, who is Layla al-Ghandour's cousin, said Hamas leader Sinwar paid the baby's family 8,000 shekels ($2,200) to accuse Israel of the death of the 8-month-old. The claim came despite the fact that members of the family had previously said that she died of a blood disorder, a condition that the baby's six-month-old brother apparently also died of last year.

According to the indictment against Omar, on the day that Layla al-Ghandour died, Omar's mother called him while he was participating in a demonstration near the border fence and told him about the child's death. Omar is said to have been told on returning home that the baby had died of the same blood disease that took the life of her brother.

Gaza Health Ministry officials claimed the day after her death that it was not clear if she had died from inhaling tear gas fired by Israeli troops. About two weeks later, the Health Ministry removed Layla al-Ghandour's name from a list of the names of those killed in border clashes with Israeli forces.

There was a lot of outrage over this but we can see how cynical Hamas is in regards to using Palestinians as propaganda tools.

I doubt we will see Guradian or BBC or CNN or Al Jazeera make any corrections. I fully expect Layla's death to be continued to be used as propaganda going forward even with this new revelation.

EDIT: and I should add I doubt we will see RESETERA admit to their mistake either.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Fake fucking news and they do little to nothing to fact check before running these stories.

 

[cryptoadam]

Fake fucking news and they do little to nothing to fact check before running these stories.

report first investigate later.

Other thread had a pic of a child supposedly separated from her family at the border crying, when the dad came out and set the record straight on what happened.

 

[Jon Neu]

I woulnd't trust an israeli source on this for obvious reasons.

 

[Panda1]

I woulnd't trust an israeli source on this for obvious reasons.

Because you are an anti Semite?

 

[Jon Neu]

Because you are an anti Semite?

lol

The sad thing is that I don't even know if you are being sarcastic or not. It's crazy how the political climate around the world has become this extreme partisan mentality.

 

[Ka-Kui]

Because you are an anti Semite?

What? Israel has a poor history of misinformation, twisting and outright lying.

 

[Helios]

Other thread had a pic of a child supposedly separated from her family at the border crying, when the dad came out and set the record straight on what happened.

It's almost as if journalists can report whatever their rabid fanbase wants because nothing will happen to them and they'll just ignore any backlash. This is why Pravda needs to happen.

 

[Alfadawg]

Under "interrogation"

Right.

 

[luigimario]

Hmmm the same isreali source who said that the palestinian nurse killed treating the injured during the border demonstrations was a "hamas human shield", which, shockingly, was a lie.

I think I will remain sceptical, especially considering isreali armed forces have no qualms in killing children....

 

[JORMBO]

Because you are an anti Semite?

That's a pretty extreme leap you made there.

 

[zelo-ca]

This is why I support Israel against Hamas

 

[Naudi]

Israel is 100% correct in all ways. Going against them is going against god himself.....not crazy at all.

 

[King of Foxes]

I don't think there will ever be peace in the middle east, this shit has gone on too long and will never end.

 

[Kadayi]

Under interrogation....

 

[cryptoadam]

LOL questioning the source. Haaretz is one of the most respected, and leftist papers in Israel. Its one of the anti-Israel's crowds most favorite source actually.

Its not a far stretch considiring Hamas was already paying people to protest anyways

Relatives of fatalities receive $3,000, injured Palestinians paid $200-$500 in compensation

Or how about Hamas and Fatah feuding at a 15 years old Funeral with Hamas breaking it up over political points?

Hamas Attacks Funeral of Dead Gaza Teenager, Wounding Fatah Officials

 

[cryptoadam]

Hmmm the same isreali source who said that the palestinian nurse killed treating the injured during the border demonstrations was a "hamas human shield", which, shockingly, was a lie.

I think I will remain sceptical, especially considering isreali armed forces have no qualms in killing children....

I guess you watch the BBC alot?

BBC bosses have found Andrew Marr guilty of breaching editorial guidelines with a ‘misleading’ claim that Israel had killed ‘lots of Palestinian kids’.

I am sure though you have no problem believing anything the Gaza health ministry shoves in front of your eyes.

 

[cryptoadam]

Under "interrogation"

Right.

So why was the baby removed from the list of Martyr's that died at the fence and why did a Doctor say a few weeks ago that the baby died of previous condition and not from tear gas inhalation?

The family already lied about the baby's death. So either they were paid, or the baby's death was caused by her 11 year old uncle and the family is trying to cover it up.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

wtf i love apartheid now

 

[luigimario]

I guess you watch the BBC alot?

BBC bosses have found Andrew Marr guilty of breaching editorial guidelines with a ‘misleading’ claim that Israel had killed ‘lots of Palestinian kids’.

I am sure though you have no problem believing anything the Gaza health ministry shoves in front of your eyes.

"Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there." Ayelet Shaked, Justice Minister for Isreal.

With statements like these, it really isn't shocking that Isreal has no qualms in killing palestinian children. The palestinians' have been dehumanized to such an extent, it kind of reminds me of the dehuminasation of the Jews in Europe in the early 1900's. It's insane. This sounds exactly like hamas propaganda.

 

[cryptoadam]

"Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there." Ayelet Shaked, Justice Minister for Isreal.

With statements like these, it really isn't shocking that Isreal has no qualms in killing palestinian children. The palestinians' have been dehumanized to such an extent, it kind of reminds me of the dehuminasation of the Jews in Europe in the early 1900's. It's insane. This sounds exactly like hamas propaganda.

Just so you know Ayelet didn't say that, she just posted that quote. But I bet you probably thought those were her actual words which goes to the point.

There are some asshole isreali's that I don't agree with, but the dehumanization happens more on the other side. Both sides need to stop attacking each other and move forward and live in peace. Considering that you have mulitple peace movements in Isreal, and tons of Pro-Palestinian NGO's in ISrael like Btslem or Breaking the silence I think that Isreali society is much more accepting of Palestinans then the other way around. And Isreal is made up of 20% non Jewish/Arabs, while territories under Palestinian control are Jew free and if Jews wind up in those area's they are generally attacked, or worse killed.

The 2000 Ramallah lynching was a violent incident that took place on October 12, 2000 at the el-Bireh police station, where a Palestinian mob killed and mutilated the bodies of two Israel Defense Forces reservists, Vadim Norzhich (Nurzhitz) and Yosef "Yossi" Avrahami,[a] who had accidentally[1] entered the Palestinian Authority-controlled city of Ramallah in the West Bank and were taken into custody by Palestinian Authority policemen.

Settler gangs continue to storm Al-Aqsa Mosque

Jewish fanatics harass Muslim worshippers at Al-Aqsa Mosque as police watches

"A video broadcast on the social media showed the Jewish fanatics sitting near the women in a provocative manner as police stood by. "

I guess sitting while Jewish is too much for Palestinians to handle?

Nor does it help to dehumanize any Jewish person who visits the temple as a "Settler" storming and attacking the mosque as Palestinian media does almost every day.


And you still can't stop talking about children when we already discussed the kids of the Fogel family, or the 10 month old baby that was sniped on purpose, or the other baby that was flung 10 feet in the air from their stroller. And since we are on children and dehumanizing



I bet you probably bought the tweet below hook line a sinker:

LOL this is a picture of JEWISH REFUGEES not Arab refugees.

 

[Ka-Kui]

Let's say that this story is true, why are these instances brought up? To prove how much more saintly the Israelis are?

Considering what Palestinians have gone through and are going through under such duress for over 60 years Israel gets no sympathy from me.

The world watches as the indigenous people of the land gets pushed out and brutalised with next to no progress, yet stories like these are brought up to say "B-bu-but look what they're doing! They totally deserve, we're so much more civil! Look we're western! They're evil arabs loke you see in the movies! We make this land so beautiful! Look at our buildings! Look at their poor houses!".

 

[M. Crassus]

Let's say that this story is true, why are these instances brought up? To prove how much more saintly the Israelis are?

Considering what Palestinians have gone through and are going through under such duress for over 60 years Israel gets no sympathy from me.

The world watches as the indigenous people of the land gets pushed out and brutalised with next to no progress, yet stories like these are brought up to say "B-bu-but look what they're doing! They totally deserve, we're so much more civil! Look we're western! They're evil arabs loke you see in the movies! We make this land so beautiful! Look at our buildings! Look at their poor houses!".

Do you think it's helpful to post these ridiculous simplifications of an age old conflict? Your simplistic way of thinking is comparable to that of a child with the "bad guy" oppressor and the "good guy" oppressed. Never mind that the Israelians tried multiple times for a two state solution, which the Palestinians don't want because of won't accept anything less than the complete obliteration of the Jewish people (and they opportunistically tried many times, when they still thought they had the upper hand). The Arabs rejected peace when they thought they had a chance to destroy the Jews, and they still reject it now that the Jews have the upper hand.

 

[Ka-Kui]

Do you think it's helpful to post these ridiculous simplifications of an age old conflict? Your simplistic way of thinking is comparable to that of a child with the "bad guy" oppressor and the "good guy" oppressed. Never mind that the Israelians tried multiple times for a two state solution, which the Palestinians don't want because of won't accept anything less than the complete obliteration of the Jewish people (and they opportunistically tried many times, when they still thought they had the upper hand). The Arabs rejected peace when they thought they had a chance to destroy the Jews, and they still reject it now that the Jews have the upper hand.

Because it is very simple. The Zionist jews were being transplanted onto "their" land. Why would they settle for losing it when they could have what is rightfully theirs? Would you settle for some strangers squatting in a room in your house?

But that is all irrelevant as the Palestinians have made various concessions with Israel making little to none, and have for decades now supported the two state solution.

It's the Israelis that have been constantly sabotaging the peace process or bringing ridiculous demands to the negotiation table knowing that the Palestinians won't accept them, all just so that they can then turn around and say to the mass western media "look they don't want peace".

The mere existence of the settlements should be enough to paint clear their true intentions.

 

[LordPezix]

Under interrogation in Israel

No.

I don't trust things that come from interrogated sources to heavily.

 

[M. Crassus]

Because it is very simple. The Zionist jews were being transplanted onto "their" land. Why would they settle for losing it when they could have what is rightfully theirs? Would you settle for some strangers squatting in a room in your house?

This is nonsense. First of all, there was already a sizeable portion of Jews on that land. Second of all, it wasn't "their" land in the first place, it was part of the recently crumbled Ottoman Empire. Thirdly, most of the land was actually bought by the Zionists. And fourthly, how the hell do you think the Arabs got their in the first place? They conquered it from another people.

That is all besides the point. You just confirmed the silly line of thinking that is keeping the Palestians from making any progress. That land is not rightfully theirs, they lost it. How and why is not even relevant, because they simply don't own the land anymore. They can either start living with that reality and make progress by coming to an understanding with the Israelians, or keep complaining forever about what is "rightfully theirs" but will never be theirs again. And that argument works both ways, as the Jews had settled that land long before the Romans, Christians and Arabs stole it.

But that is all irrelevant as the Palestinians have made various concessions with Israel making little to none, and have for decades now supported the two state solution.

It's the Israelis that have been constantly sabotaging the peace process or bringing ridiculous demands to the negotiation table knowing that the Palestinians won't accept them, all just so that they can then turn around and say to the mass western media "look they don't want peace".

The mere existence of the settlements should be enough to paint clear their true intentions.

They removed all settlements from Gaza, relaxed restrictions and gave them self-determination (and they used it to vote Hamas in power). What were their true intentions then? When did the Palestinians ever extend a peace branch even close to something like that?

 

[Ka-Kui]

This is nonsense. First of all, there was already a sizeable portion of Jews on that land. Second of all, it wasn't "their" land in the first place, it was part of the recently crumbled Ottoman Empire. Thirdly, most of the land was actually bought by the Zionists. And fourthly, how the hell do you think the Arabs got their in the first place? They conquered it from another people.

That is all besides the point. You just confirmed the silly line of thinking that is keeping the Palestians from making any progress. That land is not rightfully theirs, they lost it. How and why is not even relevant, because they simply don't own the land anymore. They can either start living with that reality and make progress by coming to an understanding with the Israelians, or keep complaining forever about what is "rightfully theirs" but will never be theirs again. And that argument works both ways, as the Jews had settled that land long before the Romans, Christians and Arabs stole it.



They removed all settlements from Gaza, relaxed restrictions and gave them self-determination (and they used it to vote Hamas in power). What were their true intentions then? When did the Palestinians ever extend a peace branch even close to something like that?

There's so much to address here I don't even know where to begin. It's amazing how well the Zionist spin machine is that even basic understanding of history and norms gets so muddled that things that should be understood for granted needs to explained in detail.

First of all most of the arab world are "arabised" arabs, they're not original arabs. They're indigenous people of the land whose people have become arabised in culture and language. The Ottomans ruled over the people yes but they didn't colonise and replace the people of the land with turks. This is very different from the British, a people of a very different culture, allowing european Jews to take up residence in another people's land of a different culture and society.

The Palestinians have never had an issue with the existing arab jews that were there before the European zionists started flooding in with an agenda to appropriate their homeland.

If Zionist jews can keep talking about what's rightfully theirs referring all the way back to biblical times then the Palestinians have a right to lament what happened in 1948. And besides you ignored my point, the Palestinians including Hamas have been supporting the two state solution based on the 1967 borders for decades now; they fully acknowledge they lost, that doesn't mean they have to like it - you need to update your history.

So what if they voted in Hamas? Only the Israelis have the gall to want to choose their enemies. It's even nore hypocritical since the Israelis can be considered a terrorist state; let's not forget the terrorist group Irgun who were responsible for the King David hotel bombing and then were later absorbed into the Israeli state officially. Israel is a legitimised terrorist state. All that shouldn't matter though, if you want to negotiate you negotiate with what you've got.

As for the settlement freeze and what not referring to Gaza only. Have you looked at the Palestinian map? Why the hell are there settlements in the first place!!!

 

[cryptoadam]

Because it is very simple. The Zionist jews were being transplanted onto "their" land. Why would they settle for losing it when they could have what is rightfully theirs? Would you settle for some strangers squatting in a room in your house?

And the "Palestinians" Arabs were transplatnted as well. Just because they came a few 100 years and occupied Jewish land after the Romans. And fine in the end the Arabs didn't want to accept a Jewish state or compromise so they fought and lost. If you start a fight and lose a war then accept your defeat!

But that is all irrelevant as the Palestinians have made various concessions with Israel making little to none, and have for decades now supported the two state solution.

Name one concession Palestinians have made? recognizing that Israel exsists is not a concession.

It's the Israelis that have been constantly sabotaging the peace process or bringing ridiculous demands to the negotiation table knowing that the Palestinians won't accept them, all just so that they can then turn around and say to the mass western media "look they don't want peace".

The mere existence of the settlements should be enough to paint clear their true intentions.

1937 Peel commission plan- Rejected by Arabs
1947 UN Partition plan - Rejected by Arabs
1949 - 1967 Jordanina illegal occupation - Palestinians never created a state, and accepted Jordanian citizenship and in their own charter said they had NO CLAIM OF SOVERIGNTY in Judea and Samaria and Gaza
2000 to today you had rejection of Camp David where according to Clinton Arafats only new idea was there was never a temple mount. You had rejection of Olmeret and Barak offers which gave 95% of everything and EAST JERUSALEM. Even in 2014 you had Kerry/Obama proposal rejected by Abbas.

So tell me how are the Palestinians the ones making peace when they have rejected every offer for peace put before them?

There hasn't been a new settlement build in nearly 25 years, and 2018 has been one of the lowest years for settlement construction in years. Isreal pulled out all settlements and settlers from Gaza. No settlements are built in areas that PA has control of, only in Area C. But keep bringing up the settlement boogeyman. Gaza shows what really happens when Israel listens to bleeding heart leftists.

 

[cryptoadam]

Let's say that this story is true, why are these instances brought up? To prove how much more saintly the Israelis are?

Considering what Palestinians have gone through and are going through under such duress for over 60 years Israel gets no sympathy from me.

The world watches as the indigenous people of the land gets pushed out and brutalised with next to no progress, yet stories like these are brought up to say "B-bu-but look what they're doing! They totally deserve, we're so much more civil! Look we're western! They're evil arabs loke you see in the movies! We make this land so beautiful! Look at our buildings! Look at their poor houses!".

Well its to show how people spread and buy Palestinian propoganda hook line and sinker and you are a perfect example of that.

Consider that this baby was paraded around to show how evil the IDF and their snipers are, so people can say see they are baby killers. And then people like you will come and talk about "indigenous people" and "brutalised" based on the same sources of info that push this story about this baby.

Maybe it might make you question some of the things you read from the Gaza health ministry or other Palestinian sources?

If Hamas is willing to pay a family to lie about their baby's death what else are they willing to lie about? What other info's you have read is embellished? What other deaths are Hamas willing to put on Israel that weren't on their hands?

And acting as if Israeli's haven't suffered? They had to fight 7 wars, suffer through years of plane hijackings, yacht hijackings, murder of Jews around the globe, bus bombins, suicide bombings, terror tunnels, rocket and mortar fire, rammings, stabbings, shottings, axeing. Shin Bet foiled someting like 250 terrorist attacks in the first 6 months of the year. Imagine living in a country where you are subject to potential 8/9 terror attacks a day. But since they are just baby killers as per Hamas its ok.

 

[cryptoadam]

Labour MP Galloway labels Jewish soccer team from 1939 ‘Palestinian’

This is too good. I won't start a new thread but I had to share. One of the biggest Israel haters and antisemites just makes a fool of himself. And most pro-palestinians would of fallen for this too.

I am in tears here.

But just goes to show who and what Palestine refered to back then. Just like the Palestinian post and the Palestinian philharmonic were Jewish institutions.

Man they were even wearing stars of david and they all had Jewish names.

 

[Ka-Kui]

And the "Palestinians" Arabs were transplatnted as well. Just because they came a few 100 years and occupied Jewish land after the Romans.

I am not going to play this game.

And fine in the end the Arabs didn't want to accept a Jewish state or compromise so they fought and lost. If you start a fight and lose a war then accept your defeat!

Why are you guys who're in support of Israel so hell bent on wanting the Palestinians to admit defeat on this matter? I think it's pretty clear they lost, do you guys want an official statement or sonething? I'm not understanding the point of this, what am I missing here? What are any of you trying to to lead to with this argument?

Name one concession Palestinians have made? recognizing that Israel exsists is not a concession.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jan/23/palestine-papers-expose-peace-concession

Looks like they offered their hands and feet and it still wasn't enough.

No Israel doesn't want to negotiate nor want peace, it's all or nothing.

1937 Peel commission plan- Rejected by Arabs
1947 UN Partition plan - Rejected by Arabs
1949 - 1967 Jordanina illegal occupation - Palestinians never created a state, and accepted Jordanian citizenship and in their own charter said they had NO CLAIM OF SOVERIGNTY in Judea and Samaria and Gaza
2000 to today you had rejection of Camp David where according to Clinton Arafats only new idea was there was never a temple mount. You had rejection of Olmeret and Barak offers which gave 95% of everything and EAST JERUSALEM. Even in 2014 you had Kerry/Obama proposal rejected by Abbas.

So tell me how are the Palestinians the ones making peace when they have rejected every offer for peace put before them?

I'm not going to waste my time going through every single date. I'm just going to address Camp David as I think that'll be sufficient in exposing Israeli ideas of what a "Peace" settlement is and what kind of la la land that people who support Israel live in.

What exactly do you think a Palestinian state should be? Because what was offered at Camp David was barely capable of any kind of sovereignty. The Palestinian state would have been fractured plots of land surrounded by Israeli settlements. The deal was so bad that Shlomo Ben Ami the Israeli foreign minister himself thought that if he were a Palestinian he would have rejected the offer.

What Palestinians want is the June 1967 borders. So what exactly is wrong with the June 1967 borders?

The UN has continuously voted in favour of the 1967 borders almost yearly and Israel has rejected them every single time.

What kind of state do the Zionist overlords envision and deign the Palestinians to allow to have?

there hasn't been a new settlement build in nearly 25 years, and 2018 has been one of the lowest years for settlement construction in years. Isreal pulled out all settlements and settlers from Gaza. No settlements are built in areas that PA has control of, only in Area C. But keep bringing up the settlement boogeyman. Gaza shows what really happens when Israel listens to bleeding heart leftists.

Sorry, which is it? Did they stop building settlements 25 years ago or is it just slowed construction in 2018? The spin is making my head spin.

Well its to show how people spread and buy Palestinian propoganda hook line and sinker and you are a perfect example of that.

Consider that this baby was paraded around to show how evil the IDF and their snipers are, so people can say see they are baby killers. And then people like you will come and talk about "indigenous people" and "brutalised" based on the same sources of info that push this story about this baby.

Maybe it might make you question some of the things you read from the Gaza health ministry or other Palestinian sources?

If Hamas is willing to pay a family to lie about their baby's death what else are they willing to lie about? What other info's you have read is embellished? What other deaths are Hamas willing to put on Israel that weren't on their hands?

And acting as if Israeli's haven't suffered? They had to fight 7 wars, suffer through years of plane hijackings, yacht hijackings, murder of Jews around the globe, bus bombins, suicide bombings, terror tunnels, rocket and mortar fire, rammings, stabbings, shottings, axeing. Shin Bet foiled someting like 250 terrorist attacks in the first 6 months of the year. Imagine living in a country where you are subject to potential 8/9 terror attacks a day. But since they are just baby killers as per Hamas its ok.

I don't care anymore.

I don't deny that they the PA and Hamas aren't perfect, but bringing up the lows that an oppressed and desperate group of people do after over 60 years hopeless peace negotiations, dehuminisation, propaganda, brutality, and torture?

I don't give a shit.

 

[cryptoadam]

I am not going to play this game.


Why are you guys who're in support of Israel so hell bent on wanting the Palestinians to admit defeat on this matter? I think it's pretty clear they lost, do you guys want an official statement or sonething? I'm not understanding the point of this, what am I missing here? What are any of you trying to to lead to with this argument?

Because wars don't end until one side agrees they are defeated and move on. Nor does the losing party get to dictate the terms. The Ottoman empire lost alot after it admitted defeat after WW1 and the Axis powers the same after WW2.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jan/23/palestine-papers-expose-peace-concession

Looks like they offered their hands and feet and it still wasn't enough.

No Israel doesn't want to negotiate nor want peace, it's all or nothing.

And the same for Palestinians who were offered 95% of all the land they want and EAST JERUSALEM.

So the big concession Palestinians made was that Israel could have Gilo. Meanwhile settlements are the biggest obstacle to peace publically, but privatly according to these documents they aren't. Hmmm makes me think...

I'm not going to waste my time going through every single date. I'm just going to address Camp David as I think that'll be sufficient in exposing Israeli ideas of what a "Peace" settlement is and what kind of la la land that people who support Israel live in.

Why not look at every date? You have nearly 80 years of Palestinian rejectionisim? Why is it not important that Palestinians rejected peaceful compromise in 37 and 47 which would have avoided any occupation and given Palestinians a state for the last 70 years? Do actions not have consequences? I guess Palestinians can be as intransigent as they want and reject everything but Israel should bend over backwards.

And you ignore a major point, that in 1964 Palestinians said they have no terriotorial claims to Judea and Samaria and Gaza.

What exactly do you think a Palestinian state should be? Because what was offered at Camp David was barely capable of any kind of sovereignty. The Palestinian state would have been fractured plots of land surrounded by Israeli settlements. The deal was so bad that Shlomo Ben Ami the Israeli foreign minister himself thought that if he were a Palestinian he would have rejected the offer.

Personally I think Israel should annex the land it wants and needs and let the Palestinians to their own. They were happy being Jordanians for nearly 20 years and until 1988 they all had Jordanian passports (J&S Arabs).

What Palestinians want is the June 1967 borders. So what exactly is wrong with the June 1967 borders?

Because 67 armistice lines are not defensible and Israel lives in a volatile neighborhood with enemies surrounding it. But again if the Arabs didn't say the 3 no's in Kahrtoom after 1967 No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel.

The UN has continuously voted in favour of the 1967 borders almost yearly and Israel has rejected them every single time.

67 are not borders, they are armistice lines between Israel and Jordan. There was never a border on those lines. Israel already made peace with Jordan and Egypt so there is no such thing as 1967 borders. You are starting from a false position.

What kind of state do the Zionist overlords envision and deign the Palestinians to allow to have?

A peaceful and prosperous state that isn't trying to attack and destroy Israel at every turn. Before the Tunis gang showed up Jews and Arabs moved freely around and interacted with each other a lot more.

Look at a map, the area is not very big.

Sorry, which is it? Did they stop building settlements 25 years ago or is it just slowed construction in 2018? The spin is making my head spin.

No new Settlemts in the past 25 years, while building within exsisting settlments has slowed down to a crawl even though evil Trump was supposed to give Israel a green light to "steal" all the land LOL.

I don't care anymore.

Good better to butt out just like you don't care about China's occupation, or Russias, or Turkeys or Morocco's.

I don't deny that they the PA and Hamas aren't perfect, but bringing up the lows that an oppressed and desperate group of people do after over 60 years hopeless peace negotiations, dehuminisation, propaganda, brutality, and torture?

I don't give a shit.

I don't know maybe stop terrorizing Israel and demonizing it and rejecting all offers and branding anyone who looks for peace as "normalizing" with Israel and move on with your life? Jews were brutalized, occupied, and exterminated for 100's of years. They built their own country, accepted compromise when offered, fought wars, and still hold their hand for peace. Time for Palestinians to accept what they can and move on. Maybe even talk to Jordan about getting back their citizenship that was stripped of them in 1988.

 

[Kadayi]

@ Ka-Kui

Don't waste your breath Crypyodam is fully committed to vilifying the Palestinians at any given opportunity ( just check his post history). Previously he's claimed they're all Nazi's (yes all of them) simply by virtue of the fact that at some point some Palestinian met Hitler or some such. I don't know what's more tragic, that he's so committed to dehumanising the Palestinians that he'll clutch at whatever straws however dubious they are to support his assertions or the fact that he's not yet been permed for his vile racism.

 

[Ka-Kui]

Because wars don't end until one side agrees they are defeated and move on. Nor does the losing party get to dictate the terms. The Ottoman empire lost alot after it admitted defeat after WW1 and the Axis powers the same after WW2.

History decides when a war has ended - not an official statement.

And the same for Palestinians who were offered 95% of all the land they want and EAST JERUSALEM.

When were they offered this? Show me your source.

So the big concession Palestinians made was that Israel could have Gilo. Meanwhile settlements are the biggest obstacle to peace publically, but privatly according to these documents they aren't. Hmmm makes me think...

No... the concessions are that they offered Israel to annexe almost all the settlements (which are all illegal to begin with) in East Jerusalem, offered a joint committee on the managing of the holy sites, were willing to compromise on the right of return of Palestinian refugees and goodness know what else.

Why not look at every date? You have nearly 80 years of Palestinian rejectionisim? Why is it not important that Palestinians rejected peaceful compromise in 37 and 47 which would have avoided any occupation and given Palestinians a state for the last 70 years? Do actions not have consequences? I guess Palestinians can be as intransigent as they want and reject everything but Israel should bend over backwards.

Because I'm not willing to give an entire history lesson. One is enough to show how unreasonable and unwilling for peace Israel truly is.

And you ignore a major point, that in 1964 Palestinians said they have no terriotorial claims to Judea and Samaria and Gaza.

You need to show me this farcical source. I'm willing to bet it's another twisted interpretation or reasoning.

Personally I think Israel should annex the land it wants and needs and let the Palestinians to their own.

The land it wants and needs? So that's everything then?

They were happy being Jordanians for nearly 20 years and until 1988 they all had Jordanian passports (J&S Arabs).

The Palestinians were always people of that land, some arbitrary modern notions of nationalism, names and identification isn't going to change where they were born and where there forefathers were born.

Because 67 armistice lines are not defensible and Israel lives in a volatile neighborhood with enemies surrounding it. But again if the Arabs didn't say the 3 no's in Kahrtoom after 1967 No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel.

This is typical Zionist reasoning, "you can't trust the arabs". Except how do you trust the Israelis? Openly talking about a possible war with Iran and carrying out numerous assassinations and just going ballistic when theh see any little opportunity, generally just doing whatever it wants with little impunity.

The question works the other way around, what's going to be defensible for the Palestinians from Israeli terror? Israel knows very well that the arabs pose no threat.

No new Settlemts in the past 25 years, while building within exsisting settlments has slowed down to a crawl even though evil Trump was supposed to give Israel a green light to "steal" all the land LOL.

The settlements are illegal as agreed by the international community. The mere existence of them is enough to discredit Israel. Can't trust the arabs but we'll build homes for families right in the middle of these terrorists that are so threatening. Brilliant.

Kadayi : Yeah I'm giving up right here.

 

[Dunki]

I think people need to differentiate more between the Hamas and Palestine. Hamas shold never be defended and they are known for paying people to cause chaos like that. So this would not surprise me at all. With Palestinian it is a different problem Israel surely needs to negotiate more.

 

[WaterAstro]

Ummm what are these interrogation methods? First I heard of this story of the baby.

 

[Dontero]

Here is reasonable question:

Why you would pay family 2200$ instead of 300$ which would do ?
300$ for palestinian family is A LOT of money.

B
Why not look at every date? You have nearly 80 years of Palestinian rejectionisim? Why is it not important that Palestinians rejected peaceful compromise in 37 and 47 which would have avoided any occupation and given Palestinians a state for the last 70 years? Do actions not have consequences? I guess Palestinians can be as intransigent as they want and reject everything but Israel should bend over backwards.

What if i come to your house, with force i will occupy 1/2 of it and then i will go to you and propose a deal. You will get 1/4 of it but i will get 1/4 permanently.
What do you do ?


Israel situation is very shitty. They have to play victims when they are aggressors.
But hey world is ruled by realpolitic so i fully expect palestinian land to be conquered by Israelis in next 40-50 years.

Why do you think they build those settlements like crazy ? Because later when they will talk with international community they will say: "look these are our lands now, Palestinians don't live there anymore"

 

[12Goblins]

Because you are an anti Semite?

Lmao this thread summed up in one post.

 

[Dunki]

Here is reasonable question:

Why you would pay family 2200$ instead of 300$ which would do ?
300$ for palestinian family is A LOT of money.



What if i come to your house, with force i will occupy 1/2 of it and then i will go to you and propose a deal. You will get 1/4 of it but i will get 1/4 permanently.
What do you do ?


Israel situation is very shitty. They have to play victims when they are aggressors.
But hey world is ruled by realpolitic so i fully expect palestinian land to be conquered by Israelis in next 40-50 years.

Why do you think they build those settlements like crazy ? Because later when they will talk with international community they will say: "look these are our lands now, Palestinians don't live there anymore"

Because there is no reason to deny anymore with this much money. Hamas are not poor they can pay this shit easily for their propaganda.

 

[luigimario]

Because there is no reason to deny anymore with this much money. Hamas are not poor they can pay this shit easily for their propaganda.

What ever hamas can "afford" to pay for it's "propaganda", isreal can do it a billion fold more.

 

[Greedings]

Likely story. Still...why would you bring a baby to a potentially violent protest. It’s not like the boarder clashes have been historically peaceful.

 

[Mahadev]

Ahahaha under "interrogation". And I should trust an Apartheid state that constantly commits war crimes, why?

 

[bigedole]

Ahahaha under "interrogation". And I should trust an Apartheid state that constantly commits war crimes, why?

You make a good point, why do you trust Hamas?

 

[cryptoadam]

@ Ka-Kui

Don't waste your breath Crypyodam is fully committed to vilifying the Palestinians at any given opportunity ( just check his post history). Previously he's claimed they're all Nazi's (yes all of them) simply by virtue of the fact that at some point some Palestinian met Hitler or some such. I don't know what's more tragic, that he's so committed to dehumanising the Palestinians that he'll clutch at whatever straws however dubious they are to support his assertions or the fact that he's not yet been permed for his vile racism.

Not all Palestinans are Nazi's, but their society is. Just like not every German in 1940 was a Nazi but we refer to it as Nazi Germany. And its not only because of their collaboration and being allied with the Nazi's during WW2, its because they fly Nazi sawtsika's today, praise hitler, and Abbas gives neo-nazi inspired speeches.

Interesting how you downplay the Mufti and his alliance with Nazi Germany and his training of SS soldiers. Ya just some Palestinian who meet Hitler, not the leader of the Palestinians who is a Nazi war criminal.

Whats the difference between the tiki torch carriers who praise hitler, fly swatsikas, and spout antisemtisim, and Palestinians that do the same? Why is one group branded Nazi's but not the other?

 

[cryptoadam]

History decides when a war has ended - not an official statement.

What does that mean? The winners decide when war ends when the other side surrenders.

When were they offered this? Show me your source.

You can find plenty of sources discussing Olmerts and Barak's plan. Even go back to Dennis Ross and Clinton and what they said about Arafat at Camp David. Read up on the issues if you want to talk about it with authority.

No... the concessions are that they offered Israel to annexe almost all the settlements (which are all illegal to begin with) in East Jerusalem, offered a joint committee on the managing of the holy sites, were willing to compromise on the right of return of Palestinian refugees and goodness know what else.

So basically what Olmert and Barak offered which they rejected. In the end Abbas can't agree to anything anyways and thats why he avoids negotiations. He is an illegal president whose 4 year mandate ran out 10 years ago and can't even make peace with Hamas. Get rid of these goons and peace would be possible.

Because I'm not willing to give an entire history lesson. One is enough to show how unreasonable and unwilling for peace Israel truly is.

So you don't care about the history of the region but yet want to talk about it as an authority. Or more likely you don't want to talk about things that reflect negativly on Palestinians?

You need to show me this farcical source. I'm willing to bet it's another twisted interpretation or reasoning.

Article 24 of their charter 1964
Article 24. This Organization does not exercise any regional sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or the Himmah Area. Its activities will be on the national popular level in the liberational, organizational, political and financial fields.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-original-palestine-national-charter-1964

Palestinians have changed their charter in 1968, I wonder why? Its hard to find because they want to scrub this from history so people like you don't think it actually exists.

Thats why you should care about history, maybe you might learn something.

Did you know in 1919 Arabs of Palestine said they were Syrians?

Palestine was envisaged as part of an independent Syrian state

So what are the Palestinians? Syrians or Jordanians?

More history from 1945. Why would Arabs boycott Palestinan goods? Because Palestine=Jew. Notice how the article calls Palestinians Arabs of Palestine groups, not Palestinians. And so nice of the Arabs to care so little for the 70 000 Arabs that could lose their financial well being well still finding a way to blame it on Zionists. And again Arabs, not Palestinians.

The land it wants and needs? So that's everything then?

No need for Gaza and outside of Jordan Valley and Area C no need for remainder of J&S. It would be better to negotiate and live in peace but with genocidal hamas on one side and neo-nazi Abbas on the other looks like a no go. Better to negotiate with Jordan and Egypt and resolve the problem regionally.

The Palestinians were always people of that land, some arbitrary modern notions of nationalism, names and identification isn't going to change where they were born and where there forefathers were born.

And the same for Jews. Difference is Jews were willing to accept compromises while Palestinians weren't. But you don't care about history as you have said many times. For you history started after 2005

This is typical Zionist reasoning, "you can't trust the arabs". Except how do you trust the Israelis? Openly talking about a possible war with Iran and carrying out numerous assassinations and just going ballistic when theh see any little opportunity, generally just doing whatever it wants with little impunity.

The question works the other way around, what's going to be defensible for the Palestinians from Israeli terror? Israel knows very well that the arabs pose no threat.

Israel lives with its Arab population no problem. It has peace with Jordan and Egypt no problems. Israel doesn't try to discredit any meetings as "normalization". Meanwhile in may there were 365 terror attacks. Imagine over 10 terror attacks a day where you live. Denazifiy Palestinian society, get rid of Hamas and neo-nazi Abbas and there can be peace.
The settlements are illegal as agreed by the international community. The mere existence of them is enough to discredit Israel. Can't trust the arabs but we'll build homes for families right in the middle of these terrorists that are so threatening. Brilliant.

Kadayi : Yeah I'm giving up right here.

And there would be no problem with Israeli homes if there was no terror. Thats what you don't get, Israel's actions towards the Palestinians are based on security. If there is no terror then the two peoples can live in peace. Just like Israel does with its own Arab population and how they haven't attacked Jordan or Egypt since they have made peace. Israel even gave back the entire Sinai to Egypt (which you probably don't know because you don't like history).

 

[Ancient Dragon]

You won’t see this on Era, lol

 

[Kadayi]

Not all Palestinans are Nazi's, but their society is. Just like not every German in 1940 was a Nazi but we refer to it as Nazi Germany. And its not only because of their collaboration and being allied with the Nazi's during WW2, its because they fly Nazi sawtsika's today, praise hitler, and Abbas gives neo-nazi inspired speeches.

Interesting how you downplay the Mufti and his alliance with Nazi Germany and his training of SS soldiers. Ya just some Palestinian who meet Hitler, not the leader of the Palestinians who is a Nazi war criminal.

Whats the difference between the tiki torch carriers who praise hitler, fly swatsikas, and spout antisemtisim, and Palestinians that do the same? Why is one group branded Nazi's but not the other?

You're a disgrace to the human race. Take your hate elsewhere.

 

[cryptoadam]

You're a disgrace to the human race. Take your hate elsewhere.

So the truth is hate? How am I disgrace. How about dispute what I said instead of calling me names?

You don't like the facts coming out because they paint an ugly picture.

 

[Kadayi]

So the truth is hate? How am I disgrace. How about dispute what I said instead of calling me names?

You don't like the facts coming out because they paint an ugly picture.

Because you're a vile racist whose sole purpose to come here it to spread your hate-filled propaganda and drag this site down. I mean honestly, you repeatedly labelled an entire people Nazi's and you expect to be indulged or taken seriously? You're a joke, and not even a funny one at that.

 

[cryptoadam]

Because you're a vile racist whose sole purpose to come here it to spread your hate-filled propaganda and drag this site down. I mean honestly, you repeatedly labelled an entire people Nazi's and you expect to be indulged or taken seriously? You're a joke, and not even a funny one at that.

I said their society is like Germans in the 1940's.

Meanwhile you don't have problem with people calling Israeli's baby killers or whatever.

And Palestinians aren't a race they are a nationality. I have no issues with Arab's at all. My issue is with Palestinians who spread neo-nazi propganada, fly swatikas, praise hitler, and spout anti-semtic BS.

But again you don't like the fact that the ugly side of Palestinian nationalism is being exposed so you prefer to call me names then dispute what I wrote. If all you are going to do is name call then yes lets end the discussion now. We don't need to communicate anymore on this subject.