Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
The ignorance of certain people on this forum never ceases to amaze me.
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[Hardware Unboxed] 2019 Amazon PC hardware sales
- Thread starter Ascend
- Start date
The ignorance of certain people on this forum never ceases to amaze me.
Ascend
Member
Prove me wrong.
llien
Member
Leonidas
Intel wipes the floor with AMD at OEMs (inertia and corruption, cough), AMD wipes the floor with Intel at DIY. (at both number of units AND total revenue)
What is there to argue about?
No doubts about that, but note that mindfactory data is inherently closer to real world than what HU is pushing.
People buying something over HU affiliate links are influenced by the content of those videos, whereas MF sales are actual sales that people in DIY market are doing.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Intel wipes the floor with AMD at OEMs , AMD wipes the floor with Intel at DIY.
What is there to argue about?
I haven't argued otherwise. I'm just in awe at the fact that some people ITT think AMD gaining 2.4% market share over a year to 18.3% = AMD outselling Intel
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Ascend
Member
Let me spell it out, since you're either being deliberately obtuse, or you simply are not getting it. In either case, it is good to clarify what is being meant, so that other people don't get deceived by biased propaganda.I haven't argued otherwise. I'm just in awe at the fact that some people ITT think AMD gaining 2.4% market share over a year to 18.3% = AMD outselling Intel
Intel outselling AMD at any point in time = Increased market share for Intel, decreased market share for AMD
Intel and AMD selling equal at any point in time = market share remains equal for both AMD and Intel
AMD outselling Intel at any point in time = decreased market share for Intel, increased market share for AMD.
The last one is exactly what is happening right now. No one is saying that over the existence of the companies AMD has sold more than Intel, which is what you are attempting to argue in order to dismiss any sort of gains that AMD is making.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Wat, AMD is even close to Nvidia in graphics card ratio.
Their profits as a company are so shit comparatively though. They need to increase margins.
Their profits as a company are so shit comparatively though. They need to increase margins.
Ascend
Member
Typical response of someone with no argument, no rebuttal, and no maturity.
Why don't you, rather than being condescending, actually try to explain what you mean better?
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Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Leonidas, must you show your insecurity about Intel in every thread?
Don't worry, they've got lots of 14nm desktop CPUs coming for you, all the way until 2021, so be happy
(if you think it looks bad now, wait until AMD's 7nm mobile CPUs drop, and then 7nm+ Ryzen 4000 on desktop)
Don't worry, they've got lots of 14nm desktop CPUs coming for you, all the way until 2021, so be happy
(if you think it looks bad now, wait until AMD's 7nm mobile CPUs drop, and then 7nm+ Ryzen 4000 on desktop)
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
It's an adequate response at one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Ad nauseam assertions are adequate responses? Could've fooled me.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Not my job to teach you basic things. The old me might have tried, now I just laugh...
The Mad Draklor
Member
So in other words, you lack the energy to peddle propaganda. No wonder why you've been invisible.
ebullientprism
Member
Glad to see the 2600 chugging along in that list.
I know the 3600 is all the rage but I love my 2600. Bought it a few months ago for like $110 and the price to performance on that thing is bonkers. Such a great little CPU at a bargain price.
I know the 3600 is all the rage but I love my 2600. Bought it a few months ago for like $110 and the price to performance on that thing is bonkers. Such a great little CPU at a bargain price.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
I've done nothing in this thread but post facts and laugh at ignorant posts.
Wait for Zen Mobile
Wait for Zen 2000
Wait for Zen 3000 Mobile
Wait for Zen 3000
Wait for Zen 4000 Mobile
Wait for Zen 4000
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Ascend
Member
Calling something ignorant does not necessarily make it ignorant. It does say a lot about your character though.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
While I'm here, how does anyone keep track of GPU lineups these days? Is there a comprehensive chart showing general compute power levels?
The Mad Draklor
Member
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
You called me obtuse
At least I understand the market share numbers I posted and how market share numbers work. Huge irony for you to call me obtuse then show your lack of knowledge of the numbers.
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Ascend
Member
I guess we can once again confirm you really love to cherry-pick information that suits your preconceived agenda. Paraphrasing, I said that you are possibly being deliberately obtuse. That is VERY different from simply calling you obtuse. Now I am quite sure that you are being deliberately obtuse. You know damn well what the truth is, but it's inconvenient to face it, so, you act that way.You called me obtuse
At least I understand the market share numbers I posted and how market share numbers work. Huge irony for you to call me obtuse then show your lack of knowledge of the numbers.
But this exchange with you has no purpose. It is derailing the thread, which I wouldn't be surprised if it was your intention in the first place. So I will no longer be replying to you in this thread. Goodbye.
Hellbound021
Banned
Competition is great! Wonder if the Ryzen 3950x will catch up to the high end by next year? Totally a shill though I always buy AMD and have stock.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Good, I hope one day you'll understand the market share data.
Irobot82
Member
To Leonidas point, let say Intel sells 100 units a day and AMD sells 10. If Intel still sells 100 units a day and AMD now sells 20 units a day. It's market share will increase but it isn't outselling Intel.
LordPezix
Member
True.
Now let's do math.
Intel = 100 Units a Day | AMD = 10 Units a Day | Total Units Sold in a Day = 110.
Intel Units Sold/Total Units Sold = 100/110 = .909 (*100) 90.9%
AMD Units Sold/Total Units Sold = 10/110 = .09(*100) .09%
Intel Market Share = 90.9%
AMD Market Share = .09%
With the increased unit sales now.
Intel = 100 Units a Day | AMD = 20 Units a Day | Total Units Sold in a Day = 120
Intel Units Sold/Total Units Sold = 100/120 = .833(*100) 83.3%
AMD Units Sold/Total Units Sold = 20/120 = .166(*100) 16.6%
Intel Market Share = 83.3%
AMD Market Share = 16.6%
Old Intel Unit Sales = 100 | Old Intel Market Share 90.9%
New Intel Unit Sales = 100 | New Intel Market Share 83.3%
Old AMD Unit Sales = 10 | Old AMD Market Share .09%
New AMD Unit Sales = 20 | New AMD Market Share 16.6%
As you can see, Market Share Growth != Outselling.
This post was completely useless.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
NewEgg seems to agree:
PhoenixTank
Member
Nah, not useless. I think the source of confusion might be people conflating this with how we see consoles. There we'd care about monthly ratios but also the total number of consoles that have been sold.
Ascend
Member
After doing the math myself, well, it seems you are right. AMD doesn't need to outsell Intel to increase market share. All they need to do is improve the ratio of selling within the market, and as long as that ratio is higher than the current market share, AMD's market share will increase. I started doing my own calculation, because yours was not convincing to me. And I didn't think it was representative at all, because you ignored historical data which didn't make it clear enough. Let me show you how I came to this conclusion. It might make it clear for others as well
At some point within the last 5 years, Intel had 80% market share, and AMD had 20%. Let's use that as a starting point for simplicity. And also for simplicity, we'll use easy to use numbers...
Intel Total CPUs sold: 800,000
AMD Total CPUs sold: 200,000
Now, let's use your numbers. Intel sells 100 units a day. AMD sells 10 units a day. After 100 days;
Intel has: 810,000
AMD has: 201,000
What is the market share now?
Intel: 810k / (810k+201k) = 80.12%
AMD: 201k / 810k+201k) = 19.88%
AMD is losing market share, and Intel's market share increased.
Now let's say AMD's sales double and Intel's stay the same, like you said. So for every 100 CPUs that Intel sells, AMD sells 20 instead of 10. After 100 days again, they have;
Intel has: 810,000
AMD has: 202,000
What is the market share now?
Intel: 810k / (810k+202k) = 80.04%
AMD: 202k / 810k+202k) = 19.96%
AMD is still losing market share, albeit at a slower rate.
What happens if the ratio becomes 100 Intel and 50 AMD? Then;
Intel has: 810,000
AMD has: 205,000
What is the market share now?
Intel: 810k / (810k+205k) = 79.80%
AMD: 205k / 810k+205k) = 20.20%
AMD gained market share in this case, without outselling Intel.
It should be noted though, that in such a case that these sale values remain the same, AMD's market share will never surpass 33.33% and Intel's lowest possible value will be 66.67%. In the case of 100 vs 10, AMD loses market share, because the 'balance point' (don't know what else to call it), is 9.09%, so as long as the ratio is like that, AMD's market share would slowly drift towards that number. The same thing happens with the 100/20 ratio, but in that case the balance point is 16.67%
Now that we have this perspective, and that AMD has risen from 18% in 2016 to 32% in 2019, it's still not unreasonable to assume that AMD is outselling Intel. That is quite a quick rise. It might be possible to calculate, but honestly, I have better things to do with my time.
And thanks for the explanation. I guess I learned something from you, because Leonidas was too much of an ass to explain himself.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
No messing around, I have a Ryzen, now I want the 64 cores threadripper to end all arguments.
I will have to start doing some 3d rendering.
LordPezix
Member
Love it. Good post too. Glad I could be of service.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
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llien
Member
They went from under 22% in 2015 to 43%+ in 2019, and still growing.
Green and blue are at 60%.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Yeah they need it closer to 50%. I think the last financial year their profit was less than $300m, which is shockingly small compared to Intel's ~$8 billion.
Ascend
Member
Leaving this here as a bonus, for some special people.
"German retailer Mindfactory’s figures for November indicate that AMD sold over 25,000 processors, compared to around 5,000 for Intel."
"Of course, we can’t put too much stock (pun not intended) in figures from a single retailer, compared to the bigger picture, but nonetheless they seemingly represent a consistent indication of AMD’s domination – at least in the desktop PC processor market (remember Intel does still rule the overall CPU roost when you take into account the likes of laptops and business PCs).
And don’t forget, other retailers tell a similar story, as we saw very recently from Amazon (and previously from the likes of South Korean operations)."
www.techradar.com
Keep laughing at AMD outselling Intel in the DIY desktop market.
"German retailer Mindfactory’s figures for November indicate that AMD sold over 25,000 processors, compared to around 5,000 for Intel."
"Of course, we can’t put too much stock (pun not intended) in figures from a single retailer, compared to the bigger picture, but nonetheless they seemingly represent a consistent indication of AMD’s domination – at least in the desktop PC processor market (remember Intel does still rule the overall CPU roost when you take into account the likes of laptops and business PCs).
And don’t forget, other retailers tell a similar story, as we saw very recently from Amazon (and previously from the likes of South Korean operations)."
AMD’s Ryzen CPUs hit a new sales high, leaving Intel in the dust
Not just killing it in terms of units sold, but also with revenue
Keep laughing at AMD outselling Intel in the DIY desktop market.
Irobot82
Member
Ascend
Member
That is indeed the most likely scenario.Ascend
Most likely AMD is outselling Intel in the DIY market by large margins, but I think Intel still has the OEM market on a huge lockdown. I would guess of all the business PC's and whatnot sold at least in the US is all Intel mostly and that is probably in the millions of units.
The Mad Draklor
Member
As Linus described in one of his videos, for the longest time, AMD laptops were always the red-headed stepchild in the lonely corner at demo stations. However, the recently announced Renoir-based laptops appear to finally buck that trend. Heck, apparently the CPU portion of a few of the Renoir APUs can outperform the 9700K in some benchmarks, which is a desktop CPU.
Most likely AMD is outselling Intel in the DIY market by large margins, but I think Intel still has the OEM market on a huge lockdown. I would guess of all the business PC's and whatnot sold at least in the US is all Intel mostly and that is probably in the millions of units.