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[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

"Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it " - George Santayana

So let me preface by saying: overall I thought MS's event yesterday was "okay". Halo did not look polished, but it did look fun. We got to see more of their 1st-party lineup, though no real-time gameplay for any of them was a big blow personally. Some of the 3rd-party stuff from SEGA, Remedy etc. looks great and had gameplay to show alongside them, but they're also (most of them, minus stuff like the PSO2 expansion) multiplatform.

However...we have to talk about Halo, because I think this is where MS have just had a SEGA Saturn moment. If any of you remember, SEGA, in a frenzy to beat Sony's PlayStation to market, literally rushed out the soft launch of the system along with glitchy, buggy versions of their marquee games at the time, Virtua Fighter and Daytona USA. These were games considered among the creme of the crop, but damn did the Saturn versions look like old crusted ass. In the case of Virtua Fighter, the Saturn version arguably looked worst than the 32X one, and that was for a MegaDrive add-on device! Daytona USA's Saturn port, meanwhile, was miles off from the arcade version visually, though in terms of gameplay it was faithful (and to many, was the better-playing game compared to Namco's Ridge Racer).

Daytona USA's initial Saturn port painted a very bad impression among both gaming press and gamers in terms of questioning the Saturn's ability to do sufficient 3D graphics, especially in comparison to Sony's PlayStation. This first impression of an actual game running on SEGA's marquee next-gen platform, did not do the system any favors in comparison to what Sony was about to unleash, which was even more frustrating considering these bad impressions could have been avoided if they waited until the games were ready. We saw proof enough of this in MUCH better/polished revisions of both Virtua Fighter and Daytona USA on the Saturn not very long after the initial buggy versions (Virtua Fighter in particular, which was mere months afterwards and, lining up somewhat with the current Halo Infinite rumors, the version of VF SEGA demoed at E3 1995 was vastly outdated compared to VF Remix (the updated port), which THEY ALREADY HAD READY AND DEMOED IN PRIVATE AT THE SAME E3!! Check out this awesome video if you'd like to know more, and give them a sub while at it. Dude makes some really good retro game review/history vids!), but to many the damage had already been done.

WHERE TO GO FROM HERE?

Now with all that said...the Saturn still went on to develop into a fantastic system with a quality library, and is one of the most beloved systems out there thanks to its quality of SEGA arcade ports and original titles (like the Panzer Dragoon series, Dragon Force games, Shining games etc.) and strong support from select 3rd-parties like Capcom, SNK, Treasure, Labotomy, WARP!, and many others. While the system was unable to find commercial success outside of Japan, nonetheless it's built a mighty fine legacy and sense of respect for itself.

So...what can MS learn from this? Well, a few main things, chiefly:

1: Reissue a new gameplay demo for Halo Infinite with much more polished visuals

2: Don't worry about trying to "beat Sony to the punch", worry more about giving things the breathing room they need for completion

3: Make sure your marquee, 1st-party titles are visually competitive with the best showings from your competitors

4: Prove the value of your software beyond just announcing the games: real-time, in-game gameplay with polished visuals is more necessary now than ever, especially considering for lots of people outside of the ecosystem, MS 1st-party (whether fairly or unfairly) is not seen in the best of light. You won't change minds with just in-game slick-edited trailers and announcements.

5: Ease off on pushing Gamepass until you can do (4). Yes, Gamepass offers A TON of value, but people outside of the ecosystem won't care unless there's something offered in terms of specific games they can't get elsewhere. Which means this responsibility falls on 1st-party content. Which means, that 1st-party content needs to impress them. And by "them", I do actually mean hardcore/core gamers because....

6: Appealing to hardcore and core gamers is paramount. MS needs to get the attention of hardcore/core gamers who are not a part of the Xbox ecosystem, and while they had a good chance with yesterday's show, overall I do not think they've accomplished this, which is troubling. Traditionally the casual and mainstream gamers MS are seemingly trying to target with Series S and Lockhart, follow the trend set by the hardcore and core gamer, who usually make up the vast majority of early adopters. Demonstrations like Halo Infinite's may be good enough for hardcore/core gamers already invested in the Xbox ecosystem, but there's a lot of non-Xbox people who did not feel the same way. And the reason THIS is important is because...

7: Converting more hardcore/core gamers into the Xbox ecosystem exponentially increases the visibility and success rate of subscription services like Gamepass. Again, the casuals and mainstream usually tend to follow after the hardcore/core. The time for MS to focus on Gamepass as their chief strategy, IMHO, comes later.

If they prioritize Gamepass out of the gate they run the risk of stagnating its potential going forward; the visibility MS gains with Gamepass by getting more hardcore/core gamers outside of the ecosystem onboard with strong 1st-party offerings (that can sell themselves on their own merits without falling back on "but it's basically free with Gamepass!") is insanely massive, but they can't jump the gun just yet. They HAVE to convince people their own 1st-party can easily hold the stable in terms of offerings that provide amazing value both on and OFF of Gamepass, which means they need to do 1-6 first.

-------

Anyway, this is just my opinion, but I'm interested to hear if anyone else felt yesterday's showing seemed analogous to some of the rather botched marketing mistakes SEGA did with the Saturn leading up to that system's launch. If you did, do you agree with the above in solutions for MS to implement, or do you have other solutions they could attempt doing? If you disagree, what do you think I'm missing in terms of seeing things as you see them?

Oh, and let's try to keep it civil

 

[JonnyMP3]

Nah. Microsoft has merely dropped the ball. Sega totally threw the game.

But Halo might be the new Duke Nukem Forever as the new FPS meme king.

 

[LittleBusters]

I think a lot of rageboys on here forget Microsoft is a $1.5trillion company and Xbox remains a 'hobby' for them. Microsoft is far more worried about Amazon AWS.

 

[Leyasu]

Seriously, what is this?

Apart from halo, Microsoft's show was one of promise. Not vague promises, but a look at what their studios are going to be bringing... just not yet.

Everyone knew that their new studios were already working on games or were just starting their 1st party games, so I don't get the doom and gloom. What is clear is that Microsoft's 1st party won't start the churn until 2022 though.

What they have said all along about cross gen is now clear. They don't have much this year and next. 1st party will be barren. That is why they have money hatted all those day one gamepass games that were shown last night.

Now about halo.....

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I think a lot of rageboys on here forget Microsoft is a $1.5trillion company and Xbox remains a 'hobby' for them. Microsoft is far more worried about Amazon AWS.

I kind of think that's part of the problem. Like I said before, gamers don't care about Amazon or Google. They care about Sony and Nintendo. If Microsoft is in the core gaming business, people are going to compare them to Sony and Nintendo, not Amazon or Google. That's just the way it is.

MS has to keep that in mind which means if they want Xbox as a brand to prosper they need to focus their efforts on meeting/exceeding companies like Sony and Nintendo and not companies most gamers consider "phantoms" in the core gaming space. Azure surpassing Google in the server space (as a hypothetical example) might be a massive boom for MS's bottom line but it means nothing for most gamers who just want to know what big AAA comparable to Sony or Nintendo's stuff they can look forward to playing.

So if they're treating Xbox as a "hobby", they need to start treating it seriously considering it's serving as a gateway for Gamepass and technological developments in the PC space that benefits MANY of their non-gaming ventures too.

Leyasu I'm not trying to paint doom and gloom at all, especially considering my post history . However, I just had a comparison to SEGA Saturn after hearing of the Halo Infinite rumors of what was shown, being an older build from January, yet MS led with that anyway when they probably had more impressive stuff they could've put in its place.

On that note it's eerily similar to what SEGA did launching the buggy VF with Saturn when they already had the superior VF Remix ready at that same time. And said buggy VF port (plus the buggy Daytona USA port) painting bad impressions of Saturn among gamers and even game devs.

I remember seeing EA being quoted in Next Generation magazine saying the Saturn could only do 60,000 polygons per second, and they based that on the bugged Daytona USA port. That really hurt SEGA and the Saturn at the time as PlayStation was building up tons of hype (besides the fact, EA were dead wrong on that opinion).

 

[ResilientBanana]

I was expecting more, they did not wow me.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

No, Microsoft is really just following the overbearing demands of the third-party publishers. The closed garden works (see: Nintendo) but third parties are getting more influential than ever. For a brand like Xbox, not having the support of third parties will SEGA you, no questions asked. So Microsoft must play along. Sony must too, to a lesser degree, because their mainstream consoles are pushed by third-party games, largely.

When we see third party publishers trimming back / closing down due to unprofitability, that is when Microsoft will go

When the AAAA market craters, that's when Microsoft will have its SEGA moment, and possibly Sony too.

Not trying to be doom and gloom, nor trying to make one brand soudn better than the other. These are market predictions, not judgment calls. Bookmark this and mock me in 3 years. I could be wrong.

 

[GetemMa]

SEGA Saturn? You don't know what you are even implying. This XBOX game showcase wasn't even in the same neighborhood as the Saturn Launch. They aren't comparable.

The Saturn was released in NA with zero notice. Not even the retailers knew they were about to receive shipments of thousands of SEGA Saturns until it was announced at E3 that they were releasing the console that very week. For some reason, someone who was really extraordinarily incompetent in SEGA's marketing team thought this surprise would work in their favor.

This really pissed off every major retailer you can think of, so they dropped the SEGA product line from their stores.

Also, the Saturn cost $100 more than the Playstation, $400 vs $300. It was also way more expensive than Nintendo. It also didn't have many good games.

This forum is really something else with it's hyperbole. This forums response to Halo Infinite and the rest of the games shown does not sync up with the rest of humanity. There are very few people in the mainstream subscribing to this idea that MS just shit the bed.

These console launches live or die based on their price, features, services, and somewhat their launch titles but not really.

PS4 had an abysmal Launch year, and it didn't matter. They won through price and messaging. Xbox One was killed by it's "online only" image, forced Kinect, and being 25% more expensive. I doubt they have those problems this time around.

 

[Xellos]

Sega surprise launched Saturn for $400 in May of 1995, and the hardware always struggled with 3D compared to PS1. It wasn't until a year later that first party games started to have good looking 3D at 30fps, and by then most third party games had started to skip Saturn altogether.

XSX's only crime thus far is that Halo Infinite looks like a Xbox One game running at 4k 60fps, which it is. Everything points to XSX hardware being excellent and price competitive with PS5, and all third party developers are supporting it. If Halo is fun people will look past the last gen visuals. Perfect Dark Zero was a terrible looking game, so much so that people briefly called X360 'Xbox 1.5,' but what really sunk PDZ is that it played poorly too.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

DunDunDunpachi No that isn't doom and gloom at all, it's rather accurate IMHO. I hadn't taken ito consideration the rate in which MS might be bending to 3rd parties; after all they seemingly did that with AC Valhalla at the May event when that game was by far the biggest disappointment of the same event!

So I guess in terms of reliance on 3rd parties they are very much dependent on them similar to Sony, but with Sony these days seemingly lessening that need to an extent I think MS should be able to do the same, and that comes down to 1st-party content. Which they have coming in spades, obviously. But they need to present it in the best light and while I like the Halo Infinite presentation overall, I can easily admit that was NOT the best light to present the game in, easily.

The AAA market honestly is at risk of a crash; budgets keep climbing, turnover keeps increasing (as does burnout rate) and the rate of time it's taking to complete games getting longer and longer, leading to unsavory pricing practices. Never mind that in terms of gameplay a lot of the AAA market is homogenizing more and more to the same standard templates at an alarming rate.

Nintendo could survive such a crash but as you say, Sony and MS can't. MS especially, because outside of Forza, Gears (arguably; the latest games have been quite good) and smaller IP like Ori and Cuphead they don't have too many stable tentpoles. Minecraft and Sea of Thieves would be fine, but most of the rest of their 1st party has to prove itself and I hope they can do that sooner rather than later.

GetemMa Lol I know about all of that and if it seemed my comparison was trying to drawing that specific correlation I apologize, it wasn't the intent. SEGA's actual launch of the Saturn in the West is something that's never been repeated and hopefully will never be repeated (unpopular opinion time: I think if social media were a thing in 1995, Saturn's surprise launch WOULD'VE worked, as long as SEGA also tried working with more retail chains and/or put up offers for them to decide in wanting early launch units).

However my point was more about the state of first impressions real-time gameplay of marquee IPs on the platforms may have on those other than ecosystem faithfuls. That's where I think the comparison is valid because a lot of the same backlash Halo Infinite is getting (and, by association, the Series X to some degree) is very similar to the backlash SEGA got with those early bugged versions of Virtua Fighter and Daytona USA, which caused issues for Saturn's perception as well.

I don't see how this can be denied as an observation; what's more important is if MS can see the correlation and learn solid lessons to apply going forward to truly build up their messaging strength going forward, particularly among the people who aren't already locked in to sticking with the ecosystem. As a business this is something they need to be actively considering and working on.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Dont diss the Saturn.

Had probably the best fighting games of the generation and arguebaly one of the best JRPG and Shooter library's on any console.

 

[Leyasu]

I kind of think that's part of the problem. Like I said before, gamers don't care about Amazon or Google. They care about Sony and Nintendo. If Microsoft is in the core gaming business, people are going to compare them to Sony and Nintendo, not Amazon or Google. That's just the way it is.

MS has to keep that in mind which means if they want Xbox as a brand to prosper they need to focus their efforts on meeting/exceeding companies like Sony and Nintendo and not companies most gamers consider "phantoms" in the core gaming space. Azure surpassing Google in the server space (as a hypothetical example) might be a massive boom for MS's bottom line but it means nothing for most gamers who just want to know what big AAA comparable to Sony or Nintendo's stuff they can look forward to playing.

So if they're treating Xbox as a "hobby", they need to start treating it seriously considering it's serving as a gateway for Gamepass and technological developments in the PC space that benefits MANY of their non-gaming ventures too.

Leyasu I'm not trying to paint doom and gloom at all, especially considering my post history . However, I just had a comparison to SEGA Saturn after hearing of the Halo Infinite rumors of what was shown, being an older build from January, yet MS led with that anyway when they probably had more impressive stuff they could've put in its place.

On that note it's eerily similar to what SEGA did launching the buggy VF with Saturn when they already had the superior VF Remix ready at that same time. And said buggy VF port (plus the buggy Daytona USA port) painting bad impressions of Saturn among gamers and even game devs.

I remember seeing EA being quoted in Next Generation magazine saying the Saturn could only do 60,000 polygons per second, and they based that on the bugged Daytona USA port. That really hurt SEGA and the Saturn at the time as PlayStation was building up tons of hype (besides the fact, EA were dead wrong on that opinion).

Yeah, I have seen your posts lol

The Halo showing yesterday was a mis-step for sure. It is obvious that the rumours were true and it has been through dev hell. The talk of an RT patch after launch is the giveaway that this is not where they wanted it to be for launch. They should have never let Rod Fergusson leave XGS, and should have sent him to 343 to coordinate the team/project. It is also clear that the 5 yrs was most probably taken up with their engine development. The game looks rough at the moment for sure. I watched it in 4k/60hz through my tvs youtube app in HDR and one thing is certain, it will be a HDR showcase. It did also look better than the stream, but is not in anyway a looker. They will send this out at launch, and MCC it with fixes coming throughout next year.

They showed 9 of their studios games last night. They have more to show. Halo was mis-step, but the rest.... Microsoft have confirmed two high budget RPGs, and inexile are rumoured to have one dev too. Meaning they could well become an RPG powerhouse next gen. Let that sink in for a minute. That is without knowing what everyone else is upto.

The concern is not valid. Not having loads of gameplay is nothing new. Platform holders and pubs have been hyping their shit for years with CGI trailers and splash screens. Microsoft did the same yesterday.

 

[Carna]

How many Microsoft doom and gloom threads do we need?

 

[Freeman]

So far MS has been completely reliant on services, but Sony hasn't even showed their had yet and I could easily see them rearranging PS+ and PSNow to be more aggressive in the early gen like they did last gen with PS+.

 

[Andodalf]

The fuck?

 

[Team Andromeda]

This thread is a joke.

 

[Kokoloko85]

How many Microsoft doom and gloom threads do we need?

Its the circle of life. Just like after Cerny's tech talk there was a million threads and polls by xbox trolls saying:

Do you prefer SSD or 12ftfps?

PS5 has no BC.

PS5 will overheat because of XYZ

PS5 has less CU's than XBOX 1 X.

9TFPS vs 12tpfs Lol lol lol? Variable blah blah blah means PS5 is 9tfps not 10.2 and will overheat....

This is what happens lol

 

[JLB]

Based on Neogaf current state, I'd think that Xbox is the root of all modern human problems lol. "Sega Saturn moment" haha oh righty kids, better your parents have jobs and money for a ps5 eoy, or gamepass on a samsung cheap cellphone will be your only option

 

[cireza]

Their show lacked gameplay but it was fine overall. Halo looked fun and I am looking forward to playing it.

The internet is overreacting as always, but it is probably not Xbox players that are generating all the commotion...

 

[Mokus]

Do you know that Sega Saturn had more games than Nintendo 64?

 

[lock2k]

Their Sega Saturn moment was the Xbox One.

This is their Dreamcast moment. lol

 

[mcjmetroid]

You're losing perspective. Can you honestly say that the MS show wasn't good?

That it didn't have enough games to show or a vast range of games for any type of gamer?

I came away from that show thinking they had something for everyone.

It was a very good show. Was it better than Sony's? Apple's and oranges. I would say Microsoft's one was better BUT Sony will have one in August that may be better than Xbox.

 

[Alx]

They already went through this, it was their "Wall Guy" moment all over again.

That was bad then and it is bad now, but it still worked fine for them in the end.

 

[DarkMage619]

We have to accept that MS is not playing the same game that Sony and Nintendo are. Both of those Japanese companies rely on tons of console sales to drive their software sales to make money. MS does not need to sell tons of Xboxes to be successful. It is all about game pass plain and simple. There is no other service on earth like game pass and while it doesn't win fanboy wars on gaming forums it is a great win for gamers to be able to pay one fee and get access to tons of games for 10 bucks a month. Halo didn't look amazing but it did look fun so did many of their other games showcased. You have to keep in mind that most if not all of those titles will be on game pass day one. Sony isn't doing that and neither is Nintendo. MS has to do something different because they could not win playing Sony or Nintendo's game. They tried it. It failed. Those brands have been around way too long and have entrenched fans that will NEVER try anything but their favorites. Look at Japan. That whole COUNTRY is dedicated to Sony and Nintendo. MS can't win there EVER. Game pass is a great service and I'll happily support it. If that means MS won't sell as many consoles so be it.

 

[Bonfires Down]

About as much as the Switch price reveal was Nintendo's Saturn moment...

 

[Starlight Lotice]

OP is saying that the Xbox Series X will not be their future in 2022 and will release the Dreamcast 2 to remedy the problems in the middle of PS5's Life.

 

[Dory16]

Making games take the time they take and that's not Phil's fault. They never said you would have gameplay demos of 22 games. He said it was the most diverse, creative and largest game lineup in Xbox history and that is factually accurate. You would have a point if there was a doubt that any of the titles shown was in fact coming to the console. I have seen TLOU2 4 years straight in game events before it was eventually released, so I think there's a lot of fake outrage out there.
Halo was visually disappointing and that serves trolls of all walks of social media the fodder that they needed to irrationally hate on what Xbox is offering. I think it's only a matter of time until GP becomes the central service in gaming. There is too much value in it.
As for the power, let's wait for more Hellblade 2 or Avowed. Halo Infinite won't be it, at least not until the raytracing patches and what not probably a year from now.

 

[skneogaf]

Microsoft need the 3rd party games to be better graphically and shown ASAP otherwise they will do even worse the current generation.

My xbox friends are fed up of the quality of games from xbox.

Right now it's only forza horizon that absolutely amazing after gears went with some garbage open world elements and made gears of war boring.

 

[Vawn]

Nothing like a Sega Saturn moment.

Let's remember what Sega did before and after the Saturn which led to their exit from the industry as a hardware platform.

The took the successful Genesis, and made a full console add-on to, that required owning two seperate consoles to play the games, with the Sega CD. While, that wasn't a complete disaster, they did it AGAIN with another Genesis add-on console, the 32x, that bombed and got very little support.

So, consumer confidence was starting to wan already. So, they finally decided to announce a new stand-alone console, the Sega Saturn. They showed it, announced a release date for the fall. Then, the GENIUSES at Sega decided to stealth drop the console several months earlier and summer and basically told no one.

The Saturn was out, in stores, and no one knew or cared. Perhaps they rushed it because they knew it was not to the standards of the 3D capabilities of the competition in PlayStation.

Before PlayStation, CD gaming was all about FMV mixed together with rudimentary gameplay. PlayStation games concentrate on 3D gaming and Saturn was not well equipped to compete.

So, now the hardcore Sega fans who were burned with the Sega CD, even more with the 32x were about to realize they were screwed again as Sega was ready to move away from Saturn as fast as possible.

So they rushed to move onto Dreamcast. Dreamcast had a lot of potential, but it didn't matter. Very few consumers still had enough faith in Sega. This led to Dreamcast also having a very short life and Sega to fade away to near irrelevancy.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

Fuck no. It had way better games... and Virtua Fighter at launch.

 

[Kerotan]

I think a lot of rageboys on here forget Microsoft is a $1.5trillion company and Xbox remains a 'hobby' for them. Microsoft is far more worried about Amazon AWS.

Maybe that's the problem.

 

[Genx3]

Saturn did rush out those games but also had an expensive clusterfuck HW design that still got spanked by the cheaper simpler PS1 architecture.

 

[Genx3]

Fuck no. It had way better games... and Virtua Fighter at launch.

I owned a Saturn day 1 and that was the worst major console launch I can remember even with VF and Daytona USA on it.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Why is this a victory lap for Sony fans? It's not like the PS5 was a home run either, it sucked fucking balls. Microsoft's event was bad, but it wasn't the marketing seppuku that Saturn was. And even then the Saturn ended up with a respectable lineup of games, certainly more worthwhile exclusives than the Xbone had. This whole premise has no purpose other than shitposting.

 

[Alexios]

You wish they had a Saturn moment, it was a great machine with amazing games in any genre, fighting, shmup, on rails shooter, racing, arcade in general, srpg, jrpg, sports, mech (and other cockpit) sim, action & adventure, first person shooter, you name it, Saturn had it in great form.

 

[Agent X]

Their Sega Saturn moment was the Xbox One.

I was about to say this.

This is their Dreamcast moment. lol

I disagree with this, though.

I feel like Xbox Series X (so far) has a lot in common with Wii U, particularly with regard to the confusing branding and their unclear messaging.

Remember when some people didn't understand what Wii U was about? Some people thought that it was referring to the tablet-style controller, that they could buy separately when they were ready...but they were disappointed because none of the stores sold it outside of a forced $300 bundle with a slightly remodeled Wii system.

Imagine what will happen this time, when Little Jimmy scrawls out his Christmas list, and puts down an Xbox Series X with Halo Infinite. Mom and Dad then take Little Jimmy's list to the store.

Dad: "Xbox X? Didn't we buy that for him last year?"

Mom: "I think we did, but these companies put out so many of these things, I can't keep track of them anymore."

Dad: "Oh, we'll get back to that later. Let's look at the game rack. Oh, there's that Halo game thingy."

Mom: "The package says it's for Xbox One. Is that the same thing as Xbox X"?

Dad: "Yeah, that's the name. Xbox One X. We did buy that system for him last year. I'm positive of that...I remember it vividly."

Mom: "You sure about that? Why would he write down 'Xbox Series X'?"

Dad: "Who knows what's up with that kid? I only ever see him playing PlayStation 4...he probably forgot he even owns the Xbox X, or whatever it's called. The game works on it, right?"

Mom: "That's what the box says. That's what all of these green boxes say."

Dad: "Well, he's already got the system, we don't need to buy him a new one. Just take the game to the counter and let's get the heck out of here."

 

[RPS37]

I was expecting more, they did not wow me.

Exactly. They lead us to believe they would show a whole lot more the. They did.
All that's left for them to do now is prove us wrong with good ass games.

 

[anothertech]

Wait till the prices are revealed. Then the shitshow will officially begin.

 

[martino]

If they push chepest and/or best place to play third party games so 95% of them they will be manage somehow
If they don't have that we will be not far from Last gen situation but coming from a different and worst one

 

[Craig of War]

Unlike Sega MS has unlimited money Xbox brand for them could lose like a million dollar a day for like 20 straight years and MS would not even blink an eye cause they have soo much more money coming in from other area they are on pace to be worth 2 trillion dollar in like 2-3 more years and btw Xbox is not even losing money as a brand so idk where all this doom and gloom thread be coming on about Xbox yes Xbox is not doing better than Playstation and that is fine but to even suggest that Xbox will go bankrupt or out of business is absurd.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

These knee-jerk reactions to an hour long show are insane. A Sega Saturn moment? It's a laughable comparison. The Xbox One reveal, now THAT was in the ballpark.

On Thursday they just showed a bunch of games. Many look quite promising. Halo could have had better graphics. Yes, this is equivalent to a one of the biggest bungles in the history of console launches.

To sum up:

 

[Reptars Revenge]

You are going to fucking feel the fur on Banjo in 2021 that's how good it will be

 

[TalentedMrJ]

Xbox is Sega Saturn because Halo Infinite didn't please graphics whores

WORK IN PROGRESS DAMNIT!!!

Funny how you only mention 1 game from the hour long show...

You're reaching brah

 

[Ozzie666]

Strictly speaking, unlike the design of the Saturn, Microsoft seemingly has nailed their console design. It's a powerful machine, the most powerful console ever. Unlike Saturn, it's also easy to develop for. It's the policies Microsoft has enforced onto their developers, which explains why third party games look better, because guess what, old consoles hold back new ones.

If anything, Microsoft has had their own Bernie Stolar moment, who declared the Saturn dead in America 2 years before Dreamcast, and left so many great games back in Japan. He killed Saturn with several grand sweeping policies.

The hardware is there, the talent in the developers is there, unfortunately the suits vision is directly at war with traditional concepts.

 

[ZywyPL]

However...we have to talk about Halo [...]

No we don't. Halo is Halo, it has its own dedicated fanbase, just as Gears, Fifa, CoD etc. I don't get this whole misconception where Sony can rely on their entire lineup but NS has to have this "one to rule them all" game, especially that Halo has never been the powerhouse kind of title, if anything that's Gears' job. The saddest thing of the presentation is that there were many amazing looking games shown but all of them were overshadowed by Halo, in the negative way of course. But that doesn't matter much, opinion of 100-150k people from the internet, from which most of them are either PS, XB or PC fanboys, doesn't reflect opinion of hundreds of millions of gamers from across the globe,S will do fine, they don't have to do anything but continue executing their plan, which they do exactly because they know it works, they know what works best for their business, they have all the numbers, not the random kids on the internet. The gen hasn't even started but I apparently many "experts" already know how it ended, jokes on you guys.

 

[jigglet]

I don't get the doom and gloom.

What is clear is that Microsoft's 1st party won't start the churn until 2022 though.

You answered your own question.

2-3 years ago the XB1 had shit all coming out on it. When you barely have any games on your current gen console, people will forgive that if it means all your resources are going towards the next gen console. But now we're told to wait another 2-3 years?

Same thing happened with Nintendo. In the final 18 months of the Wii, they dropped that console like a sack of shit, but we all lived in hope that it meant resources were being redirected to their next console. The Wii U came along and we still had huge droughts for the first few years.

 

[Hudo]

I don't understand why people are bashing what Microsoft have shown. That presentation wasn't worse than what Sony have shown. Both were equally crappy and loaded with CGI shit.

You wish they had a Saturn moment, it was a great machine with amazing games in any genre, fighting, shmup, on rails shooter, racing, arcade in general, srpg, jrpg, sports, mech (and other cockpit) sim, action & adventure, first person shooter, you name it, Saturn had it in great form.

Thank you for this, especially the Segata Sanshiro music video. This made my day. I almost fell from my chair laughing. This video literally made me want to buy a Saturn (again). Better than any marketing MS and Sony have done combined so far.

 

[Leyasu]

You answered your own question.

2-3 years ago the XB1 had shit all coming out on it. When you barely have any games on your current gen console, people will forgive that if it means all your resources are going towards the next gen console. But now we're told to wait another 2-3 years?

Same thing happened with Nintendo. In the final 18 months of the Wii, they dropped that console like a sack of shit, but we all lived in hope that it meant resources were being redirected to their next console. The Wii U came along and we still had huge droughts for the first few years.

I didn't answer my own question.

It has been discussed numerous times that the new studios were either finishing up current projects or just starting new projects, thus they were a couple of years away. Everyone knows already the acquisition timeline.

How can people on enthusiast forums claim not to know or have sudden concerns?

As I have already stated, they have money hatted timed exclusives that will launch on gamepass to tie things over because of the reality of the situation. It is what it is.

 

[lock2k]

I was about to say this.



I disagree with this, though.

I feel like Xbox Series X (so far) has a lot in common with Wii U, particularly with regard to the confusing branding and their unclear messaging.

Remember when some people didn't understand what Wii U was about? Some people thought that it was referring to the tablet-style controller, that they could buy separately when they were ready...but they were disappointed because none of the stores sold it outside of a forced $300 bundle with a slightly remodeled Wii system.

Imagine what will happen this time, when Little Jimmy scrawls out his Christmas list, and puts down an Xbox Series X with Halo Infinite. Mom and Dad then take Little Jimmy's list to the store.

Dad: "Xbox X? Didn't we buy that for him last year?"

Mom: "I think we did, but these companies put out so many of these things, I can't keep track of them anymore."

Dad: "Oh, we'll get back to that later. Let's look at the game rack. Oh, there's that Halo game thingy."

Mom: "The package says it's for Xbox One. Is that the same thing as Xbox X"?

Dad: "Yeah, that's the name. Xbox One X. We did buy that system for him last year. I'm positive of that...I remember it vividly."

Mom: "You sure about that? Why would he write down 'Xbox Series X'?"

Dad: "Who knows what's up with that kid? I only ever see him playing PlayStation 4...he probably forgot he even owns the Xbox X, or whatever it's called. The game works on it, right?"

Mom: "That's what the box says. That's what all of these green boxes say."

Dad: "Well, he's already got the system, we don't need to buy him a new one. Just take the game to the counter and let's get the heck out of here."

I was just joking for the sake of continuity. lol

 

[LarknThe4th]

The Sega Saturn era for Sega was a company taking on water whilst on the ocean floor, Microsoft's gaming division is seeing massive growth in every quarter and they just re committed to their Subscription model as of last Thursday

Their is no comparison, they are doing fine