insomniac is one studio thats actually doing some next gen stuff. Spiderman 2 has ray traced reflections on everything. water, windows, cars, rain puddles, everything.even spider man 2 didnt do anything new with ps5 technology that they didnt do on ps4
But other studios like Ubisoft Massive and Ubisoft Montreal also only made one game. But they did have the foresight to switch to RT way back in 2019. You can read their presentations where they did the math and realized that creating massive open worlds using baked lighting would take forever and hinder development progress. Avatar came out in 2023 and Shadows got delayed from 2024 to 2025. We know from Kojima that the game was supposed to be out by 2023, who is to say Ghosts didnt get delayed like AC shadows as well?With each game they make for the PS5 their skills improve and they learn new methods and improvements.
You can see what the problem here is...
A lot of current gen titles aren't really going to shine until next gen. Unfortunately.Im just a little apprehensive that we'll either get a The Last of Us situation where we dont actually get to see what they can do until the PS6 is basically a known quantity or worse still we legit have to wait for the PS6 to see Sonys true technical prowess shine.
My answer is that now is good and I'm happy you get to play it again with the awesome IQ of the Pro versionYou didn't answer to my post, Horizon only had good IQ in 30fps mode. That "clean IQ in 60fps mode" wasn't the case with that game, despite it not using any RT, virtualized geometry or virtualized shadows...
KZSF was the best looking game at launch.I never saw Sony as the "technical edge" company in the gaming sphere. They tried that with PS3 and almost killed the brand. I think Naughty Dog's Uncharted engine gave them that reputation more than anything else.
This is not to say their tech is bad whatsoever. Just interesting how perception goes.
Id say its up there with Callisto. Callisto is just more cinematic with fancy cutscenes which show it off much better than souls games that dont bother with cinematics or character rendering.I guess what's the most technically good looking game on the console you can't play anywhere else? Demons souls remake.
Is that game the best or one of the best looking games out there? Yes. Especially on pro.
Is it as impressive as say Callisto Protocol? Nope.
You are arguing with someone that will never think outside: "You don't like something from brand Y? Then you clearly must be a fanboy of brand Z!".
Have you seen how Forbidden West looked at launch and few months after in 60fps mode? GARBAGE (timestamped):
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It looks far worse in motion. Fix took them quite some time (and it still isn't all that great looking on base PS5), I had to complete game like this.
Intergalactic apparently is going to have 60 fps with RT. (Thats what the trailer showed, if I remember correctly).Curious where you stand on this. If there was RTGI at 30 fps for FW, looking somewhere between the left and right image (more right leaning than left) in IQ but with much better lighting, and 60 fps looked like the right and you had a base PS5, which mode would you play?
I would never do that. TLOU part 1 is actually the only game I have ever replayed. I get what you are saying though, but replaying is not my thing. I don't even bother with New Game+. My wife does it a lot, so perhaps this could apply to her. But she can rarely tell the difference between 30 and 60 anyway. Lol. She would be like "Oh I wonder why it controls better"... and that's it!You do know. You play games at 30 fps and then next gen you play those same games remastered at 60 fps.
Like I said, I never bothered with any of these remasters. One and done on all of them. I even bought Shadow of the Colossus remake and just couldn't get myself to play it through again. Once I've experience the narrative and internalized it, I never feel engaged. I rarely re-watch movies too, unless it's some masterpiece like the Godfather or a Nolan film or invokes nostalgia like Terminator 2 or Die Hard. I don't mind it as much, since the investment is just a couple of hours.You did this with MGS3 which got a 60 fps remaster on the PS3. Then you did with the uncharted which got a 60 fps remaster on the PS4. And then again when uncharted 4 got a 60 fps remaster on the PS5.
So why do you want Uncharted 5 to look like Uncharted 4 just so you can play it at 60 fps on day one?
Didnt you spend $500 on a next gen console? Didnt you pay $70 for this next gen game? Dont you want your money to go into a next gen experience?
An entire generation of cross gen looking games. This is unacceptable. And an easy thing to criticize them for. This is really not that complicated.
I mean tbf we use the current iterations of games to judge them not their launch versions, otherwise no one would be touring cyberpunk as a technical powerhouse and it would be eternally relegated in the hall of broken shame.yep. Horizon FW was the poster child for bad IQ bad at launch but people conveniently forgot all about it. GG literally took 5 months and had to rebuild their entire reconstruction system to fix the foliage shimmering.
You do know. You play games at 30 fps and then next gen you play those same games remastered at 60 fps. You did this with MGS3 which got a 60 fps remaster on the PS3. Then you did with the uncharted which got a 60 fps remaster on the PS4. And then again when uncharted 4 got a 60 fps remaster on the PS5. So why do you want Uncharted 5 to look like Uncharted 4 just so you can play it at 60 fps on day one? Didnt you spend $500 on a next gen console? Didnt you pay $70 for this next gen game? Dont you want your money to go into a next gen experience?
Whats next? PS6 games that finally look like PS5 games but run at 60? We are probably looking at a $750 console in 2028-2034 that makes games look like they shouldve looked in 2020?
I dont understand how this is everyone's first generation. We are in gen 9. we've done this 9 times already. Sony is doing something never been done before. An entire generation of cross gen looking games. This is unacceptable. And an easy thing to criticize them for. This is really not that complicated.
My answer is that now is good and I'm happy you get to play it again with the awesome IQ of the Pro version![]()
I mean tbf we use the current iterations of games to judge them not their launch versions, otherwise no one would be touring cyberpunk as a technical powerhouse and it would be eternally relegated in the hall of broken shame.
The narrative can still hold though. If it didn't look much better already, how much worse would IQ have been on their engine with RTGI engaged? Those are massive open worlds after all. Would they have had to do a complete overhaul to get respectable performance on console? Would there even be a 60 fps mode?But Horizon fucks up the narrative about: "PS5 games have good IQ in 60fps modes thanks to simpler graphics", it didn't look much better than many UE5 games in this aspect even few months after launch.
I mean yeah but just singling out horizon for not being optimal at launch is kind of biased no? You would have to take a major part of all next gen games out as technical fuckups if you put them to the same standard. They still came back and delivered a master class a few months later for the 60fps in terms of IQ on the same hardware. I give them a pass for not pushing the tech as far as possible due to launch and cross gen.Yeah, Pro version looks very good. They have awesome reconstruction tech on Pro.
Most Sony games are polished when they launch, GOWR was last gen but had very good Image quality. They were forced to fix FW because people were bitching and screaming for months, performance mode looked like shit.
2023 - they released Ragnarok, which is a great looking game, with a great scale, although it did not have the iteration over the original.KZSF was the best looking game at launch.
Infamous Second Son was so beautiful it literally resulted in Photo modes being introduced in games. Though it was topped by AC Unity later that year.
DriveClub is still widely praised as the best looking racer for its weather effects and sense of speed.
The Order was the best looking game of 2015.
Uncharted 4 was the best looking game of 2016.
Horzion was the best looking game of 2017.
RDR2 topped Sony's GOW, Spiderman, SOTC and Detroit in 2018. All stunners.
Death Stranding and Days Gone are both great looking games topped only by Control which went all in on next gen RT effects.
TLOU2 was exceptional when it launched, probably the best looking game of that generation. Once agian, only topped by CDPR going full RT with Cyberpunk.
Ratchet was the best looking game in 2021.
HFW was the best looking game in 2022 despite being cross gen.
It was only after 2023 did they completely fell off and the future isnt looking too bright. But Sony's been leading graphics GOTY conversations since around 2009.
It'll look great for sure. Good enough for me to want to play it at launch anyway. And I'm an ND fanboy after TLOU so I'm playing it day 1 whether it has RT or not.Intergalactic apparently is going to have 60 fps with RT. (Thats what the trailer showed, if I remember correctly).
Agreed. Clearly not an easy feat, especially on base.For me, sign of a competent developer this gen is if game has 60 fps with RT on consoles.
they havent released any next gen game yetEach generation, Sony's studios used to push the technical side of gaming to the max. Last gen they were killing it with games like
The Last of Us Part II, God of War (2018), and even The Order: 1886. But this time around, we're not really seeing that
Now Halo a series that was never really known for its visuals got a crazy good technical showcase, Hellblade II is still
the most impressive-looking game so far, and we're already halfway through the generation. Cyberpunk 2077 has
the best graphics and dynamic lighting in an open world. Black Myth: Wukong is huge and looks stunning
Meanwhile, Ghost of Yotei doesn't show much of a leap compared to the last game besides better draw distance, Spider Man 2
also didn't feel like a true generational jump over the first one. And up to now, we haven't seen Sony's first-party teams actually
use new rendering tech or dynamic lighting in their own engines while Remedy already pulled it off with their in house engine
instead of relying on Unreal Engine 5
At this point it really feels like Sony has lost that technical edge they used to have
The narrative can still hold though. If it didn't look much better already, how much worse would IQ have been on their engine with RTGI engaged? Those are massive open worlds after all. Would they have had to do a complete overhaul to get respectable performance on console? Would there even be a 60 fps mode?SlimySnake clearly doesn't care for 60 fps on console. Do you? I'm somewhere in between on it, so I'm actually struggling to take a clear stance.
Decima is a product of iteration. UE 5 was a paradigm shift. I'm sure that shift will happen for the next GG game though. It would indeed be a shame otherwise.
I mean yeah but just singling out horizon for not being optimal at launch is kind of biased no? You would have to take a major part of all next gen games out as technical fuckups if you put them to the same standard. They still came back and delivered a master class a few months later for the 60fps in terms of IQ on the same hardware. I give them a pass for not pushing the tech as far as possible due to launch and cross gen.
I get SM 2, but what tech did demon's souls push that forbidden west did not?They didn't push the tech and still ended up with garbage image quality.
We have games that push the tech and have image quality better than what FW represented in 2022, even SM2 and Demon's Souls can be used as examples.
I get SM 2, but what tech did demon's souls push that forbidden west did not?
Sorry, but "fidelity to the extreme" is not tech. Lol. It's just art. Fantastic texture, 3d models and resolution. I'm certain Bluepoint can create a PS4 version of it if they really wanted to and if their engine supported settings like Decima. Will look scaled back and blurry, just like FW.Demon's Souls don't have any "current gen" tech but it pushed fidelity to extreme degrees not possible on PS4 gen (it's similar in this aspect to FFXVI, but that game was unoptimized as fuck). Horizon on the other hand is just a PS4 game with few sliders on "high" and "ultra" instead of medium:
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Sorry, but "fidelity to the extreme" is not tech. Lol. It's just art. Fantastic texture, 3d models and resolution. I'm certain Bluepoint can create a PS4 version of it if they really wanted to and if their engine supported settings like Decima. Will look scaled back and blurry, just like FW.
I will accept your example of SM2 though. They would literally have to disable technical features and reduce traversal speeds to get that running on PS4.
We can agree on that!Yeah, Demon's Souls just looks extremely good, it has amazing consistency but it doesn't mean it can't be scaled back. It's 1:1 recreation of PS3 game anyway.
But there is no other version so we won't know that for sure. SM2 was ~1080p on regular PS5 and IQ was a bit blurry but still better than that launch HFW. And this game has excuse in pushing RT heavily, not to mention overall fidelity increased vs. SM1.
Demon Souls actually has realtime GI, not entirely like lumen but definitely better than baked lighitng in other sony games this gen). they also push incredibly high assets using the ps5 ssd. i believe they mentioned 4 gbps. their tesselation is also very strong.Sorry, but "fidelity to the extreme" is not tech. Lol. It's just art. Fantastic texture, 3d models and resolution. I'm certain Bluepoint can create a PS4 version of it if they really wanted to and if their engine supported settings like Decima. Will look scaled back and blurry, just like FW.
I will accept your example of SM2 though. They would literally have to disable technical features and reduce traversal speeds to get that running on PS4.
Sony is coasting this gen not giving a damn about pushing the boundaries with games anymore, just trying to catch lighting in a bottle wasting time and money on failed GAAS games
Good point on the realtime GI, though I wouldn't call that current gen. Yeah baked lighting needs to go extinct for any game that has more than a static room.Demon Souls actually has realtime GI, not entirely like lumen but definitely better than baked lighitng in other sony games this gen). they also push incredibly high assets using the ps5 ssd. i believe they mentioned 4 gbps. their tesselation is also very strong.
they couldve done a whole lot more had they targeted 1080p 60 fps instead of 1440p 60 fps, but its definitely doing a lot of stuff under the hood without actually utilizing PS5's rt or mesh shader features. thats why it looks a generation ahead of ND's garbage TLOU1 remake which has the same 1440p 60 fps pixel budget.
thats why it looks a generation ahead of ND's garbage TLOU1 remake
It looks worse than TLOU2, to me thats inexcusable. Absolute garbage remake.Good point on the realtime GI, though I wouldn't call that current gen. Yeah baked lighting needs to go extinct for any game that has more than a static room.
I'm skeptical of their 4 gbps claim though. Didn't insomniac make similar claims on the SSD and it turned to be just 1/10th true?
I agree. But garbage? It's a beautiful game still. But yeah, demon's souls can look much better in gameplay. I don't even consider TLOU remake current gen. It's literally just TLOU 2's engine pushed to the max with art (ie models, textures etc). The lighting is the same. Hopefully Intergalactic does a lot more. How did you feel about the tech in that trailer?
Aside from the motion blur, what is the deficiency in that shot? Are you pointing at texture detail?Intergallactic was mostly cutscene so hard to say but its 60 fps and we know high resolution 60 fps games just dont have the bandwidth to push next gen features like RT and mesh shaders.
plus the only gameplay shot looked like this so yeah, not a good look.
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Everything. Poor fog. Poor texture detail. Dated lighting. Terrible materials on the jacket and robot.Aside from the motion blur, what is the deficiency in that shot? Are you pointing at texture detail?
Ironically people say Metal Gear Solid Delta is just a expensive Remaster and not worth the asking price while insisting that TLOUPT1 which could of been done on the PS4 as it just TLOU2 graphics wrapped around the original is a true REMAKE from the ground up on PS5.I am not saying you are wrong that they wouldve slowly improved. We saw this with insomniac, but ND was making a remake. perfect opportunity to try out RT effects or mesh shaders early on in the generation. they didnt. Instead, those lazy bastards just copied and pasted assets from TLOU2 and repackaged it as a next gen game that was a generation behind Bluepoint's own Demon Souls remake.
Hmmm... We should revisit this with more footage. But yes, the ship was fantastic and I hope that look is sustained in gameplay.Everything. Poor fog. Poor texture detail. Dated lighting. Terrible materials on the jacket and robot.
The interior of the ship was much more impressive.
Yes, having RT reflections is nice but nothing big.
. Bluepoint, Guerrilla Games,Sony is not a monolith. Bluepoint, Guerrilla Games, Housemarque, Insomniac, Polyphony, Team Asobi, and Santa Monica Studio have all put out impressive looking games this generation so far, especially since some of them were cross-gen. Intergalatic looks like Naughty Dog hasn't lost any technical skills either. The only maybe disappointment is Sucker Punch, but Ill have to see the game myself rather than via YouTube to judge fully.
RT certainly could probably have been pushed more, but Insomniac has done a decent job on that front.
The real concern is the GaaS push and game cancellations severely hurting first party output, and that a lot of these sequels are let down by very poor writing.
I thought all those games were impressive this generation as well, so I'll just disagree with you there.. Bluepoint, Guerrilla Games,Housemarque, Insomniac,Polyphony, Team Asobi, and Santa Monica Studiohave all put out impressive looking games this generation so far
Corrected. and insomniac produced a very mid tier cross gen looking title in Spiderman 2 after a great first start with Ratchet. so they are 1 for 2.
GOW, GT7, Astrobot, Returnal, DS2 are all as last gen as you get. If they are impressive, they are impressive by last gen standards. Not modern day standards which is what this thread is about.
Don't worry PC gamers suck too they play in 1080p!every single current gen game this gen has a 60 fps mode. even games that shipped at just 30 fps like starfield and hellblade 2 got a 60 fps patch after launch.
no one is forcing you to play at 30 fps. but if you want 60 fps and high resolution, PCs are always there for you. you get what you pay for.
PS4 was an absolute banger. You have a point. But where else?KZSF was the best looking game at launch.
Infamous Second Son was so beautiful it literally resulted in Photo modes being introduced in games. Though it was topped by AC Unity later that year.
DriveClub is still widely praised as the best looking racer for its weather effects and sense of speed.
The Order was the best looking game of 2015.
Uncharted 4 was the best looking game of 2016.
Horzion was the best looking game of 2017.
RDR2 topped Sony's GOW, Spiderman, SOTC and Detroit in 2018. All stunners.
Death Stranding and Days Gone are both great looking games topped only by Control which went all in on next gen RT effects.
TLOU2 was exceptional when it launched, probably the best looking game of that generation. Once agian, only topped by CDPR going full RT with Cyberpunk.
Ratchet was the best looking game in 2021.
HFW was the best looking game in 2022 despite being cross gen.
It was only after 2023 did they completely fell off and the future isnt looking too bright. But Sony's been leading graphics GOTY conversations since around 2009.
Is this confirmed or are we assuming because we never saw reflection before RT before...Aside from the motion blur, what is the deficiency in that shot? Are you pointing at texture detail?
It's pushing RT reflections on base PS5 at 60 fps at high resolutions. Only a handful even do that at 60 right?
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Nothing official, but DF thinks it is RT. And see circled areas in reflection. That can't be SSR as those parts are occluded in the frame. It's possible to cheat with planar reflections, but in an open combat area? Would be a first for ND as far as I know. They did that for select mirrors before and that's about it. This is assuming it's gameplay and not rendered specifically for the trailer.Is this confirmed or are we assuming because we never saw reflection before RT before...
High chance that those reflection are planner reflections not rt ND hugely used this techniques on resent titles even Alex from digital Foundry say it's likely planner reflection, that said I hope they push rt as much as possibleAside from the motion blur, what is the deficiency in that shot? Are you pointing at texture detail?
It's pushing RT reflections on base PS5 at 60 fps at high resolutions. Only a handful even do that at 60 right?
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I hope so too. And Oliver thinks otherwise. Until official confirmation, we can only guess. And we all know how Alex would guess about anything console-related.High chance that those reflection are planner reflections not rt ND hugely used this techniques on resent titles even Alex from digital Foundry say it's likely planner reflection, that said I hope they push rt as much as possible