Lys Skygge
Member
The graphics look nice. The concept is too dark and disturbing for me. Even Postal made me feel uneasy.
You just described the GTA franchise.
Engine looks pretty cool... make it zombies and no issue.. but as it stands... it's Postal with out the humor.. which means it's just a murder simulator with no context. Which is pretty poor taste... can't get behind that.
Population pressure and the stress of modern life may cause an increase in violent tendencies. The urban environment is the incubator for all sorts of undesirable behaviors. However much his atrocity disgusts us, he may actually consider himself a hero. This is common among those who take up the popular slang "going postal". In his tortured mind, he may feel he was battling against impossible odds...
It's not unusual for some individuals to believe that the entire fate of the world rests in their hands. In the end our subject displays all the classic symptoms of paranoid delusions. We may never know what truly set him off but rest assured, we will have plenty of time to study him.
It's a clever conceit. Players slaughter people in their thousands without thinking just because a game tells them a character is a villain, a guard or a soldier. Games have repeatedly embraced torture as a gameplay mechanic to no complaint from gamers, they have indirectly encouraged players to laugh at killing prostitutes and strippers, reduced the idea of taking a life to a number on a score or a variable determining bonuses later on. Now this comes along and everyone gets all righteous? I'm calling bullshit on that. This is the sort of game most of you will have been playing your entire gaming lives and as many have pointed out, a small reskin, a justifying objective or the dishonest pretense of 'satire' would make it all OK in everyone's eyes. No matter how it turns out, this game looks to be offering exactly what so many other games do but without any excuses to hide behind: murdering people as an accomplishment and source of pleasure. Anyone who has ever played and enjoyed a Rockstar game in particular has absolutely no justification in getting high and mighty over this.
It's a clever conceit.
I mean Uwe Boll has already made the movie version of this concept.
It's nothing new so I don't understand what the fuss is about.
Would you say that about a game where you play a fictitious terrorist militant who seeks out journalists to then decapitate them?
I don't really see the difference between something like that, and this.
It's the realistic portrayal along with the art style, copter-like top-down camera, and focus on terrorizing 'k-mart' looking stores that sets this apart from a GTA. This game does nothing but give (in this case, more justified) fuel to the whole games-lead-to-violence fallacy.
It's a clever conceit. Players slaughter people in their thousands without thinking just because a game tells them a character is a villain, a guard or a soldier. Games have repeatedly embraced torture as a gameplay mechanic to no complaint from gamers, they have indirectly encouraged players to laugh at killing prostitutes and strippers, reduced the idea of taking a life to a number on a score or a variable determining bonuses later on. Now this comes along and everyone gets all righteous? I'm calling bullshit on that. This is the sort of game most of you will have been playing your entire gaming lives and as many have pointed out, a small reskin, a justifying objective or the dishonest pretense of 'satire' would make it all OK in everyone's eyes. No matter how it turns out, this game looks to be offering exactly what so many other games do but without any excuses to hide behind: murdering people as an accomplishment and source of pleasure. Anyone who has ever played and enjoyed a Rockstar game in particular has absolutely no justification in getting high and mighty over this.
I think you know the difference, and why the reaction to Hatred has been much more severe.
Uh-uh...not all of us spend our time slaughtering innocent people in those worlds when there's a ton of story campaign that does plenty else and never just makes your entire existence one as a killer only out to target innocents for score. The trailer for this game makes that the only point. So, for those that only really like to do the whole mass-murder thing in open world games that offer choices and expensive content dedicated to not doing that, you might possibly have had an agreeable statement.Anyone who has ever played and enjoyed a Rockstar game in particular has absolutely no justification in getting high and mighty over this.
Would you say that about a game where you play a fictitious terrorist militant who seeks out journalists to then decapitate them?
I don't really see the difference between something like that, and this.
It's the realistic portrayal along with the art style, copter-like top-down camera, and focus on terrorizing 'k-mart' looking stores that sets this apart from a GTA. This game does nothing but give (in this case, more justified) fuel to the whole games-lead-to-violence fallacy.
yeah, lets ignore the mobster themes and the themes of greed, betrayal, morally grey areas and characterization of protagonists and anti-heroes... who cares about what most of the games budget went into, lets focus on a byproduct that the devs actively discourage.
!!Did anyone suggest this was Frog Fractions 2 yet?
I agree / know this. I'm just pointing out that violence is still violence regardless of the veneer people put over it, like a different character model. Thus making it less relatable, and getting a lesser empathetic emotional response, because of one simple change.
I like these kinds of conversations, but open forums seem too sensitive for it. xD
It's called empathy.
Violence may still be violence regardless of the cause, but what are you trying to say with regards to the game? It could be said that self defense is still violence or war is still violence, but the context of the violent actions do matter, because it effects the story and the mentality that the game generates. Is this game going to promote kids or adults to do this thing, obviously not, but it still seems senseless to people and that is why they are against playing it. Narrative can drive a gameplay experience, and in this case the character would be someone that I really hate and so I don't wish to further the goals of the main character.I agree / know this. I'm just pointing out that violence is still violence regardless of the veneer people put over it, like a different character model. Thus making it less relatable, and getting a lesser empathetic emotional response, because of one simple change.
I like these kinds of conversations, but open forums seem too sensitive for it. xD
Which we do not show to aliens or zombies or demons in almost any medium. Dude's right.
Did anyone suggest this was Frog Fractions 2 yet?
Hatred has the guy killing because he doesn't like people. Kratos kills for revenge and because he was exploited by the gods (both a whiny cry babies though) and it's a whole thing about the Greek gods and monsters and how Kratos isn't a hero and just as bad or worst than those gods he kills.
The russians on CoD are trying to kill you, they are enemy combatants. If you are reffering to the "No Russian" level then you don't have to kill any innocents during that bit and there is context in the story (lol CoD having a story) for why the character is there.
The main objective of GTA isn't to go on a murder spree. It's to get rich and be a big dick crime guy. You can kill innocents but it's not the main goal or even a side objective just something you can do in the open world.
this is just killing for the sake of killing. Violence for the sake of violence. If you like a game where you just kill innocent people that can't fight back and offer no challenge then fine, cool, power to you, but stop trying to compare the little context this game has to other games that provide more (even if it is still flimsy)
How do zombies not offer a different moral background to a story?
Are you saying that their is no difference between a movie that follows around follows around the two students of Columbine and portrays them as taking their revenge on society and a film where two students take out a school full of zombies. You are saying that there is no difference in the moral background? Or are you saying that it is important that this is a video game and so the difference has no bearing on how the players feel when playing it?
Also, Gaf is not a message board. It doesn't make any sense to not try to analyze people, as it can give an important context to their argument and understanding someone's personality allows to have some insight into what they find important and what they would emphasis most of all. Its a good skill to have, but really limited when analyzing text. The fact that you are still replying means that you do care about the game though in some manner, or you really care about the fact that people are arguing on moral principles. I have never stated that they shouldn't have made this game or that they shouldn't be able to, but I have said that it offers a different kind of experience and on that I find tasteless on moral grounds.
Earlier you said it was a videogame, it doesn't need defended. By saying that it is just a video game, you are making a defense for it.
Now you are finally making some claim about the game, stating that it looks boring. You state that this should have been the line of argument that people should have pointed out earlier, but that isn't my issue with it. In fact, I would say that the gameplay mechanics and the destructible environment looks good. I take moral issue with the intentions of the main protagonist, because they could arm the civilians and make them more interesting to fight than zombies and I would still have an issue with the game.
Wow, nailed it.It's a clever conceit. Players slaughter people in their thousands without thinking just because a game tells them a character is a villain, a guard or a soldier. Games have repeatedly embraced torture as a gameplay mechanic to no complaint from gamers, they have indirectly encouraged players to laugh at killing prostitutes and strippers, reduced the idea of taking a life to a number on a score or a variable determining bonuses later on. Now this comes along and everyone gets all righteous? I'm calling bullshit on that. This is the sort of game most of you will have been playing your entire gaming lives and as many have pointed out, a small reskin, a justifying objective or the dishonest pretense of 'satire' would make it all OK in everyone's eyes. No matter how it turns out, this game looks to be offering exactly what so many other games do but without any excuses to hide behind: murdering people as an accomplishment and source of pleasure. Anyone who has ever played and enjoyed a Rockstar game in particular has absolutely no justification in getting high and mighty over this.
Just saw the trailer....wow. Pretty brutal.
If this game is nothing but mass civilian genocide, you think it'll be banned at all?
It's a clever conceit. Players slaughter people in their thousands without thinking just because a game tells them a character is a villain, a guard or a soldier. Games have repeatedly embraced torture as a gameplay mechanic to no complaint from gamers, they have indirectly encouraged players to laugh at killing prostitutes and strippers, reduced the idea of taking a life to a number on a score or a variable determining bonuses later on. Now this comes along and everyone gets all righteous? I'm calling bullshit on that. This is the sort of game most of you will have been playing your entire gaming lives and as many have pointed out, a small reskin, a justifying objective or the dishonest pretense of 'satire' would make it all OK in everyone's eyes. No matter how it turns out, this game looks to be offering exactly what so many other games do but without any excuses to hide behind: murdering people as an accomplishment and source of pleasure. Anyone who has ever played and enjoyed a Rockstar game in particular has absolutely no justification in getting high and mighty over this.
lol at the amounts of dislikes 'bu-bu-bu u are killing civilians!!' seriously its a fukin game grow up people
Speaking of which:I asked the Dev of Frog Fractions. He said no.
MERRY Crawford @mogwai_poet · 1h 1 hour ago
Replace the audio in the Hatred trailer with narration explaining that you're doing the right thing, a force for justice, and: video games.
It's called empathy.
Right, where we disagree, is that it's hypocritical. There's no hypocrisy involved, because it's not a conscious double standard when we feel empathy for human images verses non-human images.
Violence may still be violence regardless of the cause, but what are you trying to say with regards to the game? It could be said that self defense is still violence or war is still violence, but the context of the violent actions do matter, because it effects the story and the mentality that the game generates. Is this game going to promote kids or adults to do this thing, obviously not, but it still seems senseless to people and that is why they are against playing it. Narrative can drive a gameplay experience, and in this case the character would be someone that I really hate and so I don't wish to further the goals of the main character.
Yup, this is exactly it. You would only need very small changes to make the game "justifiable violence" in many players' eyes... which just points out how utterly fucked up it all is if you give it more than a few seconds' thought.It's a clever conceit. Players slaughter people in their thousands without thinking just because a game tells them a character is a villain, a guard or a soldier. Games have repeatedly embraced torture as a gameplay mechanic to no complaint from gamers, they have indirectly encouraged players to laugh at killing prostitutes and strippers, reduced the idea of taking a life to a number on a score or a variable determining bonuses later on. Now this comes along and everyone gets all righteous? I'm calling bullshit on that. This is the sort of game most of you will have been playing your entire gaming lives and as many have pointed out, a small reskin, a justifying objective or the dishonest pretense of 'satire' would make it all OK in everyone's eyes. No matter how it turns out, this game looks to be offering exactly what so many other games do but without any excuses to hide behind: murdering people as an accomplishment and source of pleasure. Anyone who has ever played and enjoyed a Rockstar game in particular has absolutely no justification in getting high and mighty over this.
Yeah, and let's be honest here, how many players have never just ran around running over pedestrians and walked into a store just to shoot everyone and shoot all the policemen coming to stop you?The story mission in GTA can be called a murder spree. Is killing police officers who are trying to impede a bank robber better than killing innocent pedestrians? Does the fact that they have the means to stop you make their deaths more justified?
There even survival missions in GTAO where your goal is to kill mass amounts of policemen and proceed to the next round.
Speaking of which:
The point being shooting innocent people for the sake of it makes this game pretty awful
Yeah it's "only a game" but so was RapeLay and i don't think most people would defend that as being "only a game"
A lot of games feature killing but it always has context, and even games like GTA you're not supposed to kill random people, if you do the police will come etc, and it will make your life harder anyway
It's a clever conceit. Players slaughter people in their thousands without thinking just because a game tells them a character is a villain, a guard or a soldier. Games have repeatedly embraced torture as a gameplay mechanic to no complaint from gamers, they have indirectly encouraged players to laugh at killing prostitutes and strippers, reduced the idea of taking a life to a number on a score or a variable determinists bonuses later on. Now this comes along and everyone gets all righteous? I'm calling bullshit on that. This is the sort of game most of you will have been playing your entire gaming lives and as many have pointed out, a small reskin, a justifying objective or the dishonest pretense of 'satire' would make it all OK in everyone's eyes. No matter how it turns out, this game looks to be offering exactly what so many other games do but without any excuses to hide behind: murdering people as an accomplishment and source of pleasure. Anyone who has ever played and enjoyed a Rockstar game in particular has absolutely no justification in getting high and mighty over this.
It's a clever conceit. Players slaughter people in their thousands without thinking just because a game tells them a character is a villain, a guard or a soldier. Games have repeatedly embraced torture as a gameplay mechanic to no complaint from gamers, they have indirectly encouraged players to laugh at killing prostitutes and strippers, reduced the idea of taking a life to a number on a score or a variable determining bonuses later on. Now this comes along and everyone gets all righteous? I'm calling bullshit on that. This is the sort of game most of you will have been playing your entire gaming lives and as many have pointed out, a small reskin, a justifying objective or the dishonest pretense of 'satire' would make it all OK in everyone's eyes. No matter how it turns out, this game looks to be offering exactly what so many other games do but without any excuses to hide behind: murdering people as an accomplishment and source of pleasure. Anyone who has ever played and enjoyed a Rockstar game in particular has absolutely no justification in getting high and mighty over this.
It's a clever conceit. Players slaughter people in their thousands without thinking just because a game tells them a character is a villain, a guard or a soldier. Games have repeatedly embraced torture as a gameplay mechanic to no complaint from gamers, they have indirectly encouraged players to laugh at killing prostitutes and strippers, reduced the idea of taking a life to a number on a score or a variable determining bonuses later on. Now this comes along and everyone gets all righteous? I'm calling bullshit on that. This is the sort of game most of you will have been playing your entire gaming lives and as many have pointed out, a small reskin, a justifying objective or the dishonest pretense of 'satire' would make it all OK in everyone's eyes. No matter how it turns out, this game looks to be offering exactly what so many other games do but without any excuses to hide behind: murdering people as an accomplishment and source of pleasure. Anyone who has ever played and enjoyed a Rockstar game in particular has absolutely no justification in getting high and mighty over this.
It's a clever conceit. Players slaughter people in their thousands without thinking just because a game tells them a character is a villain, a guard or a soldier. Games have repeatedly embraced torture as a gameplay mechanic to no complaint from gamers, they have indirectly encouraged players to laugh at killing prostitutes and strippers, reduced the idea of taking a life to a number on a score or a variable determining bonuses later on. Now this comes along and everyone gets all righteous? I'm calling bullshit on that. This is the sort of game most of you will have been playing your entire gaming lives and as many have pointed out, a small reskin, a justifying objective or the dishonest pretense of 'satire' would make it all OK in everyone's eyes. No matter how it turns out, this game looks to be offering exactly what so many other games do but without any excuses to hide behind: murdering people as an accomplishment and source of pleasure. Anyone who has ever played and enjoyed a Rockstar game in particular has absolutely no justification in getting high and mighty over this.
...just don't try this at home and don't take it too seriously, it's just a game.![]()
The story mission in GTA can be called a murder spree. Is killing police officers who are trying to impede a bank robber better than killing innocent pedestrians? Does the fact that they have the means to stop you make their deaths more justified?
There even survival missions in GTAO where your goal is to kill mass amounts of policemen and proceed to the next round.