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[ElectricBlanketFire]

Basically, they think a better rollout could have avoided the backlash.

They're still moving forward with the show.

HBO ”screwed up" when it announced ”Confederate," its planned science-fiction history series, the network's chief executive admitted on Tuesday.

The drama, about an alternative history of the United States in which Southern states had successfully split from the Union, was announced in July as D.B. Weiss and David Benioff's follow-up to their global hit ”Game of Thrones."

The concept, especially the revelation that a modern form slavery will be depicted, spurred a furious backlash on social media and in essays from high-profile writers like Ta-Nehisi Coates and Roxane Gay, with many pointing to real-world acts of white nationalism and confederate sympathy as evidence that a dramatization of such themes is not needed.

On Tuesday Richard Plepler, the chief executive of HBO, said he regretted that a show he described as a complex exploration into ”the thin veneer of civilization" was announced with a brief news notice.

”Where we screwed up was we tried to explain a complicated subject in a news release in three paragraphs," he said at a Vanity Fair event in Los Angeles, according to Deadline.

Both HBO executives have expressed support for the concept of the series itself. Production on ”Confederate" will not begin until after the final season of ”Game of Thrones," which will debut in the second half of 2018, at the earliest.

Yeah, that's not the reason buddy.

 

[jimmypython]

so is the show still on??

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

so is the show still on??

As of now, yes.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

So, still missing the plot.

 

[Slayven]

Nah you regret people was falling over themselves to complement how "woke" the idea was.

Most damning thing is how silent they were on Charlotteville

 

[Skellig Gra]

"I regret that there was a backlash"

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

So, still missing the plot.

A show with black people as slaves to remind them to stay in their place.

Aka status quo.

 

[theignoramus]

I dont trust the Game of Thrones writers with racial issues at all. They enjoy violent, pornographic material too much and it's my firm belief they would put out the equivalent of Goodbye Uncle Tom if they believed they could get away with it.
Frankly, Im still annoyed with the Orientalist way non-White people and cultures were depicted in some of those Game of Thrones episodes. I still have flashbacks to the scenes where they made sure to have the darkest of Black people playing slavers or slaves and hundreds of brown people bowing down in fealty and worship to an Aryan White queen.

 

[Sunster]

We don't like the idea.

 

[Enduin]

 

[Guevara]

I like the idea of an alternative history show with the confederate states in modern times, but not sure if this is the group to do it.

 

[PSqueak]

Why do hollywood/TV execs have their head so far up their asses they come to these sort of stupid conclusions.

Can't wait for this show to get destroyed by "Black America".

 

[ForkNetwork]

I dont trust the Game of Thrones writers with racial issues at all. They enjoy violent, pornographic material too much and it's my firm belief they would put out the equivalent of Goodbye Uncle Tom if they believed they could get away with it.

Yup, they took away the anti-war message of GoT and replaced it with the glorification of violence. Trusting them would probably be a mistake

 

[DonShula]

Still going to see this out before calling for its demise.

Let HBO shoot themselves in the foot if they want - don’t prevent them from even attempting it.

 

[kirblar]

I have no idea why both HBO and Amazon were both so eager for "Man in the High Castle" x "US Race Relations" pitches (though Amazon's project is way less problematic on that front.)

 

[Platy]

The problem was not how you announced the plot, is who you announced working on it

 

[excelsiorlef]

Still going to see this out before calling for its demise.

Let HBO shoot themselves in the foot if they want - don't prevent them from even attempting it.

No one is preventing them as clearly demonstrated by the fact that they said we're sorry we told you about it but stay tuned for the show in a few years.

 

[Korigama]

Their only regret is that people aren't falling over themselves to see it like they hoped. No amount of elaboration will make people like the idea, HBO.

 

[funkystudent]

I mean its basically a spin on the "what if the Nazi's won WW2" plot that gets used a lot. No one accuses Bethesda of glorying the Nazi's in Wallenstein or in every sci fi TV show that has used it every now and again during the last 30 years.

With this I think it is just not the right time for it. People are simply not in the mood

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Keep calling them out. They've clearly learned nothing.

 

[Sunster]

Still going to see this out before calling for its demise.

Let HBO shoot themselves in the foot if they want - don’t prevent them from even attempting it.

not one person is trying to prevent them from doing anything.

 

[Slayven]

I dont trust the Game of Thrones writers with racial issues at all. They enjoy violent, pornographic material too much and it's my firm belief they would put out the equivalent of Goodbye Uncle Tom if they believed they could get away with it.
Frankly, Im still annoyed with the Orientalist way non-White people and cultures were depicted in some of those Game of Thrones episodes. I still have flashbacks to the scenes where they made sure to have the darkest of Black people playing slavers or slaves and hundreds of brown people bowing down in fealty and worship to an Aryan White queen.

Check out the credits for the head writer of the show

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1173259/?ref_=ttfc_fc_wr7

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Their only regret as that people aren't falling over themselves to see it like they hoped. No amount of elaboration will make people like the idea, HBO.

They're trying to Federation Force their way out of this by placing the blame on the consumer.

"What I can tell you is Confederate is definitely a show."

 

[Mushroomer25]

I feel like the truth that HBO isn't willing to admit is that the concerns people have about Confederate aren't just based on the premise - but on the odds of the execution being any good, whatsoever. If you're going to tell an ambitious, stinging racial drama that dives face-first into some blistering themes - you do not call the white dudes behind the worst seasons of Game of Thrones to do the job. Past alt-history dramas that drew comparisons to Confederate (Man in the High Castle, Handmaid's Tale) at least had respected novels to fall back on, proof that the stories are worth telling.

HBO wants people to take them at face value on this, when they absolutely do not have the credibility.

 

[badcrumble]

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Confederate. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of history most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realize that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Confederate truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the satire in Robert E. Lee IV's existencial catchphrase "Slavery Still Exists, And Is Extremely Good," which itself is a cryptic reference to Pierce's American epic The Turner Diaries I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Benioff & Weiss's genius unfolds itself on their television screens.

 

[Principate]

I don't see how you look at the past few months in a America and go "gee holly what a good idea this still is".

Imagine if the had tried to reveal the show after Charlottesville.

 

[PantherLotus]

I mean its basically a spin on the "what if the Nazi's won WW2" plot that gets used a lot. No one accuses Bethesda of glorying the Nazi's in Wallenstein or in every sci fi TV show that has used it every now and again during the last 30 years.

With this I think it is just not the right time for it. People are simply not in the mood

The alternate history genre is nothing new, and Harry Turtledove has himself used the 'what if the confederacy won?' question to tinker with downstream results on how the Nazis might have won.

I think the concept could be a worthy exploration of humanity, but the way they're doing this is all wrong.

 

[Giolon]

The concept for the series is sound and the premise has a lot to explore. The pre-emptive backlash was absolute nonsense. Once it's been made and released, there will be plenty of opportunity to criticize it.

I trust HBO to make something good though. I hope they proceed because I'm interested to see what they come up with.

One day, maybe people will learn that depicting something in fictional media does not automatically equal endorsement, or even that the attitudes of fictional characters does not automatically mirror the personal beliefs of their creators.

 

[Bronx-Man]

I lost all interest in being upset after Aaron McGruder announced his show. This thing is just pontless.

 

[Haly]

Loool fuck D&D.

 

[Geist-]

I swear he's said this before and we had a thread about it.

I have no idea why both HBO and Amazon were both so eager for "Man in the High Castle" x "US Race Relations" pitches (though Amazon's project is way less problematic on that front.)

Black America is at least being made by African Americans and is post-slavery.

 

[Slayven]

I lost all interest in being upset after Aaron McGruder announced his show. This thing is just pontless.

I mean McGruder actually had some talent behind his show from jump.

Confederate copped the lead writer of Empire, and McGruder made Black Jesus. No contest

 

[Sunster]

The concept for the series is sound and the premise has a lot to explore. The pre-emptive backlash was absolute nonsense. Once it's been made and released, there will be plenty of opportunity to criticize it.

I trust HBO to make something good though. I hope they proceed because I'm interested to see what they come up with.

One day, maybe people will learn that depicting something in fictional media does not automatically equal endorsement, or even that the attitudes of fictional characters does not automatically mirror the personal beliefs of their creators.

critisizing an idea is very normal. when a politician floats the idea of a bill and we don't like it we critisize it and hope they get the message. we do not wait for it to become law.

 

[Angelus Errare]

"I regret that there was a backlash"

Basically

critisizing an idea is very normal. when a politician floats the idea of a bill and we don't like it we critisize it and hope they get the message. we do not wait for it to become law.

Nailed it, and I'm stealing the comparison to be used in future debates.

 

[Scuffed]

The right and the left hated the idea of this show. Of course each side had very different reasons for not liking the concept of the show but they both wanted nothing to do with it. It's very strange that they are still going forward with it.

 

[PSqueak]

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Confederate. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of history most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realize that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Confederate truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the satire in Robert E. Lee IV's existencial catchphrase "Slavery Still Exists, And Is Extremely Good," which itself is a cryptic reference to Pierce's American epic The Turner Diaries I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Benioff & Weiss's genius unfolds itself on their television screens.

i lol'd.

 

[kirblar]

Black America is at least being made by African Americans and is post-slavery.

Yeah, in Amazon's case it's more "you're doing another alt-history show already?"

 

[Neece]

The concept for the series is sound and the premise has a lot to explore. The pre-emptive backlash was absolute nonsense. Once it's been made and released, there will be plenty of opportunity to criticize it.

I trust HBO to make something good though. I hope they proceed because I'm interested to see what they come up with.

One day, maybe people will learn that depicting something in fictional media does not automatically equal endorsement, or even that the attitudes of fictional characters does not automatically mirror the personal beliefs of their creators.

By “good”, are you saying you “trust” D&D to make something entertaining or you “trust” that they will make something artful, thoughtful, and handle it’s sensitive themes and depictions of race, sexual violence, and slavery well?

 

[Frozenprince]

Television is a medium that is quite literally dependent on positive audience reception and feedback on whether or not a show survives or even makes it to air (there's more failed pilots each year than successfully launched shows).

So that point has never made sense to me.

 

[DonShula]

No one is preventing them as clearly demonstrated by the fact that they said we're sorry we told you about it but stay tuned for the show in a few years.

not one person is trying to prevent them from doing anything.

Obviously no one can directly prevent them.

I’m simply waiting to see the fucking thing before I judge it. Unlike the majority of GAF going by the past few threads on the subject.

In principle I object to shouting the thing down before it even really exists.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

This show would be idolized by the alt-right as it indulges in their fantasies. It does not matter the stance the show tries to take (D&D have a bad track record when it comes to social issues) if it’s being abused as pornoraphic material for the group they are trying to lambast. Same argument goes for Needle Drop’s other channel.

There are many more interesting ways to provide commentary on today’s racial divide without continuing to portray POC in any sort of victim role, especially slavery.

 

[DonShula]

critisizing an idea is very normal. when a politician floats the idea of a bill and we don't like it we critisize it and hope they get the message. we do not wait for it to become law.

That’s a law, that people must follow, compared to a TV show, which people can effectively purchase via subscription.

Let them waste their money making the show. Let them show you who they are.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

More interesting alternative history would be if slavery never happened. I imagine we'd be in the Star Trek timeline by now.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

More interesting alternative history would be if slavery never happened. I imagine we'd be in the Star Trek timeline by now.

Even better would be if Lincoln hadn't died and the Reconstruction wasn't neutered.

 

[Blader]

I understand why the show's concept is so problematic, and agree with many of those criticisms, particularly because I am beyond sick and tired of African-American portrayals in film and TV being so predominantly limited to slavery and civil rights stories.

But what I don't understand is why something like The Man in the High Castle, or any kind of "what if the Nazis won" historical fiction, gets a pass -- particularly now, when actual Neo Nazis are marching, carrying swastikas, yelling 'Jews will not replace us,' and, you know, killing people!

 

[Neece]

That’s a law, that people must follow, compared to a TV show, which people can effectively purchase via subscription.

Let them waste their money making the show. Let them show you who they are.

The creators of the show have already shown themselves. It being D&D who is making this show has a LOT to do with why this is getting backlash.

 

[Slayven]

That's a law, that people must follow, compared to a TV show, which people can effectively purchase via subscription.

Let them waste their money making the show. Let them show you who they are.

Their work on GOT is a pretty good gauge and look who they hired to run and write the show.

They are producing a product for consumers, consumers are allowed to talk about a product until they seen it?

Even better would be if Lincoln hadn't died and the Reconstruction wasn't neutered.

Or Lincoln executed confederate generals, instead of giving them the government

 

[theignoramus]

Check out the credits for the head writer of the show

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1173259/?ref_=ttfc_fc_wr7

Empire and a Sopranos video game?
This show will be trashy AF.

 

[Indrid Cold1]

As of now, yes.

Great stuff. Was worried they would get cold feet due to all that furore. Looking forward to this show.

 

[kirblar]

I understand why the show's concept is so problematic, and agree with many of those criticisms, particularly because I am beyond sick and tired of African-American portrayals in film and TV being so predominantly limited to slavery and civil rights stories.

But what I don't understand is why something like The Man in the High Castle, or any kind of "what if the Nazis won" historical fiction, gets a pass -- particularly now, when actual Neo Nazis are marching, carrying swastikas, yelling 'Jews will not replace us,' and, you know, killing people!

If you had a "what if the Nazis won" story pitched about Germany, a lot of Germans would not be happy.

The US doesn't have a history of 1940s Nazis running the country. It does have a history of slavery. Hence, the difference.