I can not stop laughing, like that is the best they could get?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
HBO Boss Regrets Announcement of Confederate, but Not its Concept
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
- Start date
I can not stop laughing, like that is the best they could get?
He's also the showrunner for Amazons TV adaption of Marlon James's A Brief History of Seven Killings.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...er-prize-winning-novel-amazon-studios-1042835
Hey, if you cant trust the tester of the hit videogame "tiny tank" to write this, who can you?
Sure, but the US does have a history of Americans being killed by Nazis and Jewish-Americans either fleeing the Nazis or their parents/grandparents/families fleeing or killed by the Nazis. That's why Nazis are such easy punching bags in this country -- we all agree they were evil and did a lot of harm to us or people we know.
Oh shit dude does Insecure? Goddamn this show is going to be lit.
Truly a modern day Aaron Spelling
excelsiorlef
Member
Germany actually made efforts to make amends for Nazism... America made amends to white southerners for taking away their free labour.
Rumblebones
Banned
I don't have a problem with the show conceptually, however the timing of it is rather poor given the political climate in the States and how emboldened white supremacists are now that the White House is filled with them.
A couple years earlier of a couple years from now and there really wouldn't be the timing issue, but even then there are issues with how tiring the genre is and the completely and utter lack of trust the show runners have garnered considering how white Game of Thrones has been and the troubling themes around Danny's exploits.
Ultimately I just don't see what purpose this show would serve.
A couple years earlier of a couple years from now and there really wouldn't be the timing issue, but even then there are issues with how tiring the genre is and the completely and utter lack of trust the show runners have garnered considering how white Game of Thrones has been and the troubling themes around Danny's exploits.
Ultimately I just don't see what purpose this show would serve.
master billings
Banned
I already know that this show will be filled with rape against black women and it makes me sick. Let's see them defend it without the "this is what it was like back then" excuse to fall back on.
I mean, is it even remotely possible those two learned something from their past experiences? I dont know, honestly. And thats why Id like to see the thing before I jump too far down HBOs throat over it.
excelsiorlef
Member
They put something out into the universe a concept and a creative team... criticism is fair game.
Youth Crew
Member
Voicing opinion = Jumping down their throats?
They are a billion dollar multinational media company. Not our fault if their messaging sucks or they don't want to counter criticism
It's almost worse than that. A Song of Ice and Fire is clearly anti-war whereas Game of Thrones mixes in anti-war moments with glorifications of violence. Like when Tyrion was looking at the wreckage of The Loot Train battle last year -- that's the kind of stuff that's in A Feast of Crows. But it doesn't last. One scene has characters mourning violence, the next they're reveling in it. That mixed messaging is even more damaging. It's a "both sides are fine" or "we'll let you decide" stance that lets the creators wash their hands even though they're still covered in blood.
Benioff should go back to writing novels. His writing has gone in the toilet since the move to television.
Germany punished the Nazis for war crimes and disavowed everything Hitler stood for. America erected monuments of Confederate generals, elected some to Government positions, and there's still anti-black laws and norms. So, yeah, it's nothing like "What if the Nazis won WW2".
This show probably won't air until 2020 at the earliest.
John Rabbit
Banned
HBO: "Watch our new show with slavery in it!"
Black people: "You should probably not do that. This is a bad idea and harmful to us as a race of people."
HBO: "Please understand."
Black people: "You should probably not do that. This is a bad idea and harmful to us as a race of people."
HBO: "Please understand."
Sunster
Member
Other People: "Stop oppressing HBO!"
Battlezone
Member
I have been told by people within HBO that Benioff, Weiss, Nichelle and Malcolm Spellman pitched the show together and have "equal say" on the show.
But if one half of the creative team is responsible for the single most successful property in HBO's history, and the other half is not, how can you say they're equal? If there is a creative disagreement between the four of them, who's side do you think HBO is going to take? They're fundamentally not equal.
And I've since heard a little more of the concept, and I have even less confidence in the concept than I did originally.
Also, if the idea is that the North and South fought to a stalemate, yet the South got to keep slavery until modern times, then they didn't fight to a stalemate. The South fucking won.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
No it should "I hope you will accept this". That's much more insulting.
United but unequal
Principate
Saint Titanfall
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
Mammoth Jones
Member
You really see no difference between how things were handled after the confederacy lost vs when the nazis lost?
Angelus Errare
Banned
The number of times some variation of this scene happens throughout the series is just
theignoramus
Member
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Is she wearing jeans?
Glass Shark
Banned
This is like the real-world version of trying to get out of a Twitter argument by saying "Twitter is not a good place for real discussion."
It's not about how many words or characters it takes to express your idea. Your idea is just bad.
It's not about how many words or characters it takes to express your idea. Your idea is just bad.
ThisGuy
Member
Whew, the fetish for white women is real AF.
Twenty year old 501's naturally.
Mushroomer25
Member
I highly, highly doubt it. GoT's monumental ratings aside, this show doesn't seem like it's trying to be a mass-appeal, demographic-crossing hit. HBO believes in this as their answer to 'political' TV, a show that pushes buttons and gets people talking across the spectrum. It's Emmy bait, just very poorly considered Emmy bait.
Then again, Crash won an Oscar. So who knows, maybe this works for them.
I'm not sure where you got that from my post.
You're using Man in the High Castle as a comparison, are you not?
So do you see why the two are completely different or no?
Joe T.
Member
It's only harmful if it's handled poorly, which I will grant you is a likely scenario given the issue at hand, but if handled with care a popular TV show where the racial divide is front and center can help improve the current state of affairs in the US, even if only marginally, especially if it manages to attract an audience that would otherwise avoid the issue altogether. If racists tune into the show expecting to see a world more in line with their beliefs and then get exposed to characters dealing with racism from the other side they might actually gain a little insight and maybe even start to open up to the idea of equality somewhere down the line.
Here's hoping the show doesn't ever rival Game of Thrones' "bad pussy" scene.
Sunster
Member
he wouldn't make a show like this.
My point was that I don't see why Confederate gets raked over the coals and something like Man in the High Castle doesn't when both shows effectively empower their respective villains from history. I am not saying Confederate doesn't deserve criticism, I am saying why doesn't Man in the High Castle or similar historical fiction stories about Nazis winning the war get more flak, particularly now when we have Neo Nazis making themselves louder and bolder than ever before?
A lot of the Confederate criticism seems to boil down to three different but overlapping points: that D&D are bad writers, that D&D are racists, and that D&D, even with the best of intentions, may accidentally (or perhaps intentionally, since they are allegedly racist) create slaveholder characters that are sympathetic or likable in some way that emboldens real life white supremacists. I disagree with the first two points, and think the third is certainly possible, but don't see why it's any more potentially problematic here than in any other piece of historical fiction that creates potentially likable, charismatic main characters out of historical villains.
excelsiorlef
Member
This was always a D&D baby... as part of their announcement they talked having come up with it years ago as a movie idea.... The idea that the others are equal on this is baloney.
One difference is Nazis got defeated, so it's fine to do a what if on that.
America has never addressed its own slavery and racism issue since "winning" the war. It's insulting that it is entertainment fodder.
Pejorative
Banned
Awesome 
hopefully it will be fantastic.
hopefully it will be fantastic.PixelatedBookake
Junior Member
It's probably been said a bajillion times by now, but I don't think the concept is a good idea due to the situations still going on in America PLUS the GoT writers who are infamous for how they portray violence and rape in their show. Maybe....I dunno...read the room a bit guys?
Not that racism isn't still an enormous, and even understated, problem today, but the idea that America has *never addressed* slavery and racism is so absurd I don't even know where to start.
The Nazis were defeated, and yet Neo Nazis and anti-Semites continue to not only exist but peddle their influence in growing numbers. We just saw hundreds of them chanting JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US in the open last month! The Nazis may have lost, but Nazism and its ideological underpinnings are still alive and well.
How has it ?
Okay so you don't actually see why a show about Nazis and a show about the confederacy are not comparable?
Was the Confederacy punished like the Nazis were?
Are there any statues celebrating Nazis?
Are there still people that proudly fly a Nazi flag in Germany?
Are there Nazi flags on government buildings?
There were consequences and closer with what the Nazis did, there was none of that with the Confederacy. The two are not comparable.
Temeculan3000
Member
Not sure what you are saying here? That literally nothing has been done?
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
The novel "City of Thieves" convinced me that Benioff, at least, is capable of great writing. I'm glad this series is going forward and I hope it doesn't fulfill the fears of those opposed to it. Done right, I think it could be a boon to progressive causes.
Do you see people still waving around Confederate flags acting like its all about states rights and all that jazz? Then we haven't done nearly enough.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Not sure how this will end up, need to know (much) more on this. Who are all the writers, directors, producers, more on the actual story, etc. Alternate reality storylines are wicked interesting but only when handled exceptionally well (like.. everything else I supposed). I'm assuming there's been plenty of posts with edginess up to 100 by people who act like the double Ds are the worst showrunners of all time despite being in charge in of one of the best tv shows ever made from a book series where the writer wrote it so it wouldn't be adaptable into TV.
Not saying the show will be great. I think what might hurt this show if it's not handled to perfection is the huge racial issues in the States. People at this point are going to look to get pissed off at anything so if they mishandle any aspect in this kind of storyline, they're going to get internet's wrath heading their way and possibly kill the show. I think with the timing of the social climate, it's a mistake, but what do I know? :\ I'll watch the promo and take it from there.
Not saying the show will be great. I think what might hurt this show if it's not handled to perfection is the huge racial issues in the States. People at this point are going to look to get pissed off at anything so if they mishandle any aspect in this kind of storyline, they're going to get internet's wrath heading their way and possibly kill the show. I think with the timing of the social climate, it's a mistake, but what do I know? :\ I'll watch the promo and take it from there.