MatrixReloaded101
Member
Not surprised, Halo Infinite is a flop and I wouldn't be surprised if MS decides to move on from the game.
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Head of Creative for Halo Infinite is leaving 343 to join Xbox Publishing
Not surprised, Halo Infinite is a flop and I wouldn't be surprised if MS decides to move on from the game.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
Infinity Ward would be ideal if they move on from 343i
R3claimer117
Member
Lmao the idea that they’re closing shop on halo yet a pouring development money and paying an entire different studio to work on halo Jesus can some of you give it a rest halo is not going anywhere. Just because they might have call of duty doesn’t mean they get rid of halo if anything this is a smart move as shitty as it may be cause bringing in 10,000 developers after abk closes you might as well use those support studios for halo as well.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Yep. Halo has legs, F2P will always have a launch chance to grab a crowd but Halo needs some serious vision at the helm. Also, any time Halo drops high quality game it's in contention for market leader. Granted that quality has eluded 343 for 3 or 4 major game releases and studios like Respawn just do it better and faster.
As I keep going on about, when Halo decides to really go after PvE it's a WoW 5-10 year run and MTX waiting in the wings. It could happen whenever, not under 343 though, the game outcomes at launch are not even close to striking.
Why 343 repeatedly chose to compete directly against COD, BF, Apex, Fortnite etc is beyond me. In the last 10 years no decision makers around 343 decided to pull the trigger on PvE on the scale of Destiny? Fuck me that's a huge mistake. They could literally sidestep infighting over the fickle F2P FPS crowd and flavour of the month to pure Halo focused content no other game provides. Release new content? Game picks up. Do that regularly and you're not taking just the players from PvP, 50% of Halo fans don't even touch PvP. Mental.
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R3claimer117
Member
I agree and I feel that Microsoft if not for being held up by abk would have already bought certain affinity as they have more devs at that studio including Max who’s worked on the original three games.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Knowing MS the sharing and caring circle jerk around all these companies/tech/talent coming together should help speed game dev up, increase quality etc etc. I make a joke line but MS are good at collab in software dev. In reality if they can garner more wins from that than loses then Xbox games will be doing great in the next 1-5 years.
Me? I want Certain Affinity to get full control over tech, creative, game story etc.
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bentanchorbolt
Banned
I’m somewhat suspect because historically MS isn’t the best at managing studios so ideally they treat Activision how they have treated Bethesda, which is mostly hands off. There will be a lot of studios to manage if they deal goes through.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
You can't just move on from a franchise like Halo.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Yes and no. I'd rather the platform/publisher be more hands off. I want creatives and technical talents in full control of their visions. It's why Indies/AA etc innovate far more than AAA does.
If you look at the scale of MS in terms of windows, azure, office do you really see some of the worst software dev around? Not really, they all have their tech debt or issues or management blocks etc. At the end of the day they know what they're doing but haven't hit those high notes for single player campaign/story style games. Pretty much every other genre they've had major wins of their own or partnered to deliver e.g. Forza, SoT, Grounded, Flight, Gears, Xbox@ID, Ori etc. Halo sucks. I'm a broken record here on these things but I just don't agree that a single entity should have the be all and end all "control" over say 20 studios and all games they release.
I'm after 20 unique experiences, not 20 more of the same. The hands off approach enables more is what I'm saying.
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The Tourmaline Gorilla
Banned
Thank God and good riddance!
Infinite was ambitious, but so poorly executed, the dream turned into a nightmare, very quickly. 343i needs a good shake-up. Either that, or give the IP to someone else. This game has been ran into the ground, where it was once the pinnacle of FPS excellence. Now, it's just a hollow, sad and pathetic husk of itself. And it's sad it took this long. I honestly can't believe Phil let 343i steer Halo down this path, for so long.
Infinite was the nail in the coffin for me, and what's worse is, it had/has so much potential. Smfh
Give Halo a fucking break...a long one; it needs it. Get back to the drawing board. Build a proper team of people who are familiar with Halo, from top to bottom. Who've played it and lived through its glory days. Who understands what made Halo great, and who understands where 343i went wrong. A team of people who have a sense of style, and know what quality gameplay in this era needs. A team of people who are familiar with the competition's offerings, but know where Halo's strengths lie, and can exploit those strengths in ways never done before. A group of people who are practical, pragmatic but also highly ambitious. Led by a leader who knows how to properly manage a team, a budget and who can cultivate, reward and breathe life into talent. Some great writing. Great writers. Great direction. Top-notch animators and designers, and the budget and time-line to not just pull it off, but to excel in every facet of game design, in ways Bungie's Halo could only dream of.
I'm a hopeless romantic. And my expectations will just end up frustrating me... But good God, how I'd love to see Halo back to its former glory. Fnck you Bonnie Ross!
Infinite was ambitious, but so poorly executed, the dream turned into a nightmare, very quickly. 343i needs a good shake-up. Either that, or give the IP to someone else. This game has been ran into the ground, where it was once the pinnacle of FPS excellence. Now, it's just a hollow, sad and pathetic husk of itself. And it's sad it took this long. I honestly can't believe Phil let 343i steer Halo down this path, for so long.
Infinite was the nail in the coffin for me, and what's worse is, it had/has so much potential. Smfh
Give Halo a fucking break...a long one; it needs it. Get back to the drawing board. Build a proper team of people who are familiar with Halo, from top to bottom. Who've played it and lived through its glory days. Who understands what made Halo great, and who understands where 343i went wrong. A team of people who have a sense of style, and know what quality gameplay in this era needs. A team of people who are familiar with the competition's offerings, but know where Halo's strengths lie, and can exploit those strengths in ways never done before. A group of people who are practical, pragmatic but also highly ambitious. Led by a leader who knows how to properly manage a team, a budget and who can cultivate, reward and breathe life into talent. Some great writing. Great writers. Great direction. Top-notch animators and designers, and the budget and time-line to not just pull it off, but to excel in every facet of game design, in ways Bungie's Halo could only dream of.
I'm a hopeless romantic. And my expectations will just end up frustrating me... But good God, how I'd love to see Halo back to its former glory. Fnck you Bonnie Ross!
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Is Stinkles still with 343 or did he get laid off?
diffusionx
Gold Member
You are placing the blame where it does not belong. Joseph Staten was called in to clean up the vomit pile that 343 had made that led up to that infamous unveiling and whip their garbage into something that is, apparently, good enough to win NeoGAF GOTY (LOL).
VAVA Mk2
Member
I was asking that myself. Him and Kiki Wolfkill.
remember_spinal
Banned
Jinzo Prime
Gold Member
Uh, he already did a long time ago, Staten was one of the main writers for the original trilogy, then moved to Xbox Games Studios. They brought him back to Halo to get Infinite out of the door, now he is going back to Xbox. I hope they are prepping him to take Matt Booty's spot.
I'm starting to think that people don't know how to use a Wiki.
Kiki Wolfkill and Frank O'Conner should have been the first to go.
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Let’s be honest we were all wanting 343s heads for fucking up Halo for years on end.
This is the result of them hearing the backlash, looking into it, and making decisions.
My guess ? Infinite is now a done product and will just exist with an even smaller skeleton crew.
They will then create a new team from scratch after this game is old and they have the talent to launch a new vision. They could take coalition members and if they do get activision then throw in some CoD developers to work on Halo.
This is the result of them hearing the backlash, looking into it, and making decisions.
My guess ? Infinite is now a done product and will just exist with an even smaller skeleton crew.
They will then create a new team from scratch after this game is old and they have the talent to launch a new vision. They could take coalition members and if they do get activision then throw in some CoD developers to work on Halo.
diffusionx
Gold Member
the devs were just as incompetent
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I'm not talking about Staten, I'm talking about Microsoft.
remember_spinal
Banned
So why did they hire them?
diffusionx
Gold Member
I don't know, you'd have to ask them, but the idea that the staff were these awesome devs who failed because of management is silly. Both failed.
LordOfChaos
Member
Damn...So do you guys think Halo Infinite is just going to be in maintenance mode on multiplayer and this impacts any single player DLC that was coming up?
Hurts to see a favorite gaming franchise mismanaged so much...The end of Infinite was just getting to the potentially interesting stuff.
Hurts to see a favorite gaming franchise mismanaged so much...The end of Infinite was just getting to the potentially interesting stuff.
Codes 208
Member
*sigh*
Nothing of value remains then, is there?
Nothing of value remains then, is there?
If by devs you mean interns because they kept changing the guard throughout the entire development while being headed by some of the most incompetent leadership then yeah, sure, why not.
Vids Just summing it up with some insights from his 343 friends and what’s been happening overall. But in my opinion, people gotta remember that changes were already happening with Pierre Hintze becoming the new head of 343. He’s the guy that revived The Master Chief Collection (games the best remaster collection in gaming fr fr) and 2 other people. One running the general management, and someone else running the books and esport and merchandising. Before this was all done by Bonnie Ross.
I don’t think anyone would tell you they were expecting MS to lay off 10,000 people, but BIG changes were always looming over 343 since the head management (not just Bonnie) left the company. Sucks because the gameplay loop for infinite is fantastic, there’s just not much else to do beyond that which is unacceptable for a live service game. Makes me wonder about the battle royale mode from Certain Affintiy, at this point I can really see them either merging with 343 or taking over at this point, moneys on the former though.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Except Joe Staten himself stated that the amazing game that Halo Infinite is was already there when he arrived. He just had them focus on the more important things to get the game shipped on time. Halo is one of the most popular and most played Xbox franchises period. It's not going anywhere anytime soon.
And Halo Infinite is the #15 most played game worldwide on Xbox Series consoles. And it seems like people talk about that most played list, which is split up by countries, whenever they think Halo Infinite is in a spot that makes it easier to trash. Except Halo Infinite is consistently in the most played games since it released and that hasn't changed. It's #3 on game pass in the USA, #21 overall in the USA, literally one spot below FIFA. I'm sure no one thinks FIFA is doing badly.
Sucks for all the laid off people, hope everyone lands on their feet. The remaining team at 343i will keep kicking ass on Halo.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Even if the game got 10/10 and there was no Craig, Halo isn't going to be a big hit like the Xbox OG and 360 days. It's an old school shooter which lots of gamers arent into sci-fi like the old days of Doom, Quake, Unreal, Halo.
We already saw it come crashing down with WWII. Modern Warfare (COD leading the pack) made sci-fi shooters even less important and interesting. I played Unreal back in the day on my Pentium. You got rocket launchers, that nuke bomb rocket, blue laser and blow up sphere. Crazy shit. As soon as WWII and MW games came out, I'm playing them. I like my shooters more grounded.
Thats not to say colourful crazy stuff doesn't sell. Fortnite and Apex F2P do well. And so does Destiny. But Halo is really still striving for that legacy shooter fan from 2004. Times have changed.
We already saw it come crashing down with WWII. Modern Warfare (COD leading the pack) made sci-fi shooters even less important and interesting. I played Unreal back in the day on my Pentium. You got rocket launchers, that nuke bomb rocket, blue laser and blow up sphere. Crazy shit. As soon as WWII and MW games came out, I'm playing them. I like my shooters more grounded.
Thats not to say colourful crazy stuff doesn't sell. Fortnite and Apex F2P do well. And so does Destiny. But Halo is really still striving for that legacy shooter fan from 2004. Times have changed.
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I don't agree with that, you can keep a franchise relevant if you innovate and lead. Look at BotW bringing in numbers that Zelda has never seen. Also Doom 2016 is a great example as well.
I think it's clear there was bad leadership there, people who had no business managing this franchise, and I think we all know who.
There's also problem in Western gaming dev, and Western world in general, where the PC police has sucked up all the humor and fun of a work place. Humor is essential to creativity. Yes, some things should be a no go "you're fired". But, this culture has suffocated so much of the work place, that you're constantly walking on egg shells, stressed by every word you say, that you lower your voice tuck your head in and just do. The result is less creativity, no innovation, no risk.
In the US it's even worse because of the hierarchy that the boss is always right and you should just nod along.
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aries_71
Junior Member
I just learned that Bonnie Ross left the studio a few months ago...
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
If you look at the most played list.
The games that actually beat Infinite are:
- COD/Warzone 2
- Fortnite
- Apex Legends
- GTA
- Roblox - cuz crack for kids is good.
- MineCraft
- Raindow Six Siege - memba when we all thought this was a failed game?
- NBA2K/Madden/FIFA - The yearly sports titles.
- Overwatch 2
- Destiny 2
- RDR2
- Forza Horizon 5
- Elden Ring
I dont know if I would say its failed when the games its being out playerbased by are absolutely monster titles.
Yes, Halo isnt the cultural phenomenon it used to be, but way back when it had very little competition even so I think its far from dead.
supernova8
Banned
No it's because even if a lot of us shit all over Halo Infinite we still, deep down, want Halo to be a good game (especially singleplayer) because Xbox having a good Halo game pushes Playstation to do better and vice versa.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Back in the day of 360, the most played games lists were I think GTA, COD, FIFA and Halo. Maybe BF games were top 10 too, I forget. I dont remember if Halo 3 beat COD 4 or vice versa.
Since then Halo has dropped like a rock. No doubt there's more competition now and the influx of solid popular F2P games makes sense for them to be chart toppers, but youd think Halo would still be up there keeping up.
On your list there's 6 other shooters that are ahead of it. If this was the 360 days, it'd be second to COD for shooters, and pretty sure a top 5 game ongoing.
(Edit: I just did a google check and the top played 360 games for 2007 to 2009 was Halo 3. It could be argued 2009 COD was really #1 as it had #2 and 3 spots split across two games. After that Halo Reach and Halo 4 dropped to top 5 games).
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MatrixReloaded101
Member
Halo died after Halo 3 ODST, go look at the sales numbers for each game. The sales for every halo game after ODST drop significantly.
Halo Infinite was the last chance the series had to make a real come back and it hasn’t done well. 2023 is packed with new game releases and a lot of these games are also online based plus Halo infinite has to compete with the other online games currently out like Call of Duty, Fortnite, etc.
Most of the leadership at 343 has jump shipped and clearly their has to be major issues going on for that to keep happening.
Xbox is better off investing time and resources into building new games instead of trying to bring Halo back, I love Halo but at some point you have to move on because the audience already has a long time ago.
Nothing they do to the game will change its player base because they waited too long. That’s the thing about live service games, you have to be ready with content to keep players engaged with your game and if you don’t do that players will move on to play something else and it’s hard to regain that trust again.
kiphalfton
Member
I don't.
Hopefully they don't darken anybody else's doorstep, and instead go into another line of work, where sucking at their job won't affect a multi million dollar project and people's enjoyment.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Ya. Nothing wrong with moving on. It's just that Halo is MS's flagship franchise so it looks bad it they bail on it for a new marquee shooter and mascot.
Unreal used to be a huge game. Right there with Quake battling it out with the latest tech and crazy guns. The last game they made was Unreal 3. Nobody cared about it. They even made some kind of crowdsourced Unreal game in 2014 (which I didn't know until I googled it, which servers are shutting down next week). So Epic realized their big franchise from 2000 isnt even worth doing their own Unreal 4 game. They hoped the mod community would handle it. And there definitely isn't an Unreal 5 or 6 since then.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Poor studio management, huh? Ya don't say.
Exactly what I was talking about in this thread this thread that got locked
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Halo 3 and Call of Duty 4 were constantly trading places as top Xbox Live game.
I betrayed Halo for COD4, at the Xbox Anniversary I found out COD4 is to this day my most played game.
Halo Reach and BlackOps were constantly trading places.
I betrayed COD for Halo Reach lol.
Gears of War and Gears of War 2
FIFA, Madden - The sports games
Bad Company and Bad Company 2
Rainbow Six Vegas + 2
But really there werent that many multiplayer games to choose from so it was relatively easy for "any" AAA Multiplyer game to have legs and keep players.
Hell we got so little DLC(content updates) back in the day most of those X360 titles would be dead in days if they released today.
At any moment we basically had 3 MP games to choose from, and they would literally die cuz we never got this totally live service model.
So COD, BF, R6, Halo and Gears could basically share the entire userbase and keep releasing new titles without totally cannibalizing each other or leaving anyone behind.
If you remember back in the day basically there would only be like 2 or 3 MP games on the most played list at any one time, the rest of the titles on the list would be single player games.
Today the opposite is true, which kinda tells you how the gaming landscape has changed.
Basically only one or two games are ever SP titles in the top 15 at any one time.....if that.
MatrixReloaded101
Member
Halo isn’t a flagship title anymore. It does look bad because Halo infinite had potential because the game play is great but 343 clearly couldn’t deliver and they have been trying for years now , continuing to give them resources doesn’t make sense imo.
Pulling resources from other studios to “save” the game doesn’t make sense either at this point.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
Halo Veteran Joseph Staten Joins 343 Industries to Get Halo Infinite 'Back on Track' - IGN
Microsoft has moved Joseph Staten, who was instrumental in the success of Bungie's Halo games, to 343 Industries to help get Halo Infinite "back on track."
Was never long term.
BadBurger
Banned
I agree, in that the game play of Halo hasn't advanced alongside the rest of the industry. It's OK for what it is, but just compare it to Bungie's next product Destiny. Bungie moved on and expanded upon their original concepts. Meanwhile Halo under 343i is still very much the same old formula as near as I can tell from watching game play vids of the previous entries, finishing Infinite on PC, and then playing through most of Halo 5 until I got bored with it. It just has a grappling hook now. The game play loop otherwise feels almost completely unchanged from the late 2000's / early 2010's.
I appreciate how they tried to turn it into a kind of pseudo open world adventure game, but in that genre there are so many better, more advanced options.
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TheUndeadGamer
Member
Yeah it’s a shame. Maybe we will get our answers in comic form or maybe the next Halo game with an offscreen mention.
aries_71
Junior Member
Not changing the formula and not deviating from Halo 2 is what the fan base has been screaming, here at Neogaf and elsewhere, since Halo 3 come out. Damned if you do.
Banjo64
cumsessed
This is the way the world ends. Found this post on r/halo that pretty much summarises the state of play;
So in the last few months:
With this level of losses and no visible future for the studio or their only IP, it's clear what's going on; Microsoft is standing to acquire Call of Duty within the next year or two and will have no need to expend resources on a secondary FPS franchise that doesn't make the tiniest fraction of the revenue Call of Duty generates. Remember that the latest game in this series cost so much, across various versions and 6 years, to produce that you could've made two full COD games with money to spare from those resources.
Whether you're a Classic fan pining for Bungie or a Reclaimer fan who thinks 343 have had a tough time with the series, Halo is done. It's finished.
So in the last few months:
- 343 have lost Sperasoft to the war in Ukraine, along with Certain Affinity being busy on Tatanka and whilst SkyBox Studios are still helping on Forge, they're now under NetEase ownership. Additionally, the last time we heard about Tatanka was following the roadmap disaster, where several reputable leakers revealed it had only restarted development shortly before that fiasco.
- 343 have had their entire studio leadership structure split into multiple positions after a very public rejection by consumers and the early resignation of their studio lead.
- 343 have been haemorrhaging contractors for the last year.
- 343 cannot replace personnel lost due to the company-wide recruitment embargo.
- 343 and Microsoft have not responded to the trademark of Halo: The Endless being contested by Amplitude Studios.
- 343's attempted revival of Halo Infinite via Forge and the Custom Games Browser failed to reverse the population decline and numbers are actually lower than before.
- 343 have now lost 60 fulltime employees minimum, less than two months before their next major content release. This may not even be the last round of redundancies and losses for them either.
- 343 have now lost the guy who was specifically put where he was to right the ship, reverse the decline and work towards bringing their half a billion dollar project to its full potential.
With this level of losses and no visible future for the studio or their only IP, it's clear what's going on; Microsoft is standing to acquire Call of Duty within the next year or two and will have no need to expend resources on a secondary FPS franchise that doesn't make the tiniest fraction of the revenue Call of Duty generates. Remember that the latest game in this series cost so much, across various versions and 6 years, to produce that you could've made two full COD games with money to spare from those resources.
Whether you're a Classic fan pining for Bungie or a Reclaimer fan who thinks 343 have had a tough time with the series, Halo is done. It's finished.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Halo SP, a space hopping multi planets and multi biomes. What we got, despite the cries that just you wait just you imagine how much SP content they will add, is and remains a preview of what could have been :/…
Stare-Bear
Banned
The average game developer gets hit first. This is all on management and Phil Spencer.
Banjo64
cumsessed
Entire game is basically a beta still.
remember_spinal
Banned
Reviewers need to go back over those scores
mansoor1980
Gold Member
look at what she has done to CHIEF
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