-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Heroes of Newerth Beta PC (dota clone)
- Thread starter blitz64
- Start date
SazerVisuel
Member
I want to like Kraken, but I'm so bad with him. What was this guy doing to do well?Ultimo hombre said:
Slither's wards are stupid insane now. :lol I had a teammate who blocked off someone pursuing another teammate using the wards as a wall. It was awesome.Lone_Prodigy said:
Whoa. Is broadband this expensive (comparably) nationwide in Australia for single users? I know in the UK it was common to charge a capped rate for the amounts of bandwidth used per month (and it got pretty expensive... offering unlimited access was rare to non-existent)... seems as if Australia has something like that as well.
hauton said:
1 easily interrupted grip and a situationally useful ultimate.
After that what did he do? Auto attack things with his amazing auto attack?
He made a good early lane partner and early ganker, but there was nothing he could do that Pollywog couldn't do better (who was/is rarely picked to begin with). And the "<hero> can tank because he can soak up a lot of damage!" argument is the most flawed thing ever. There's no such thing as human aggro. Your grip gets interrupted and then people just ignored you because you were Electrician. You're not a tank unless you represent a significant enough threat that people will actually bother attacking you. Which before the change Electrician never did.
Easily interrupted? As opposed to any other channeling spell that's not easily interrupted?JoeMartin said:
In a 1v1 solo mid there's nobody around to interrupt him.
In a 2v2 lane you
a) Pick on the one who has a disable, as opposed to the one who doesn't
b) Rely on your teammate to get take care of the other one
c) Bait them into using their disable and putting it on cd
d) Go gank another lane
In a teamfight the exact same thing applies - unless you have a terrible team Electrician doesn't need to initiate - bait their disables, wait for your initiator or straight up grip the one most likely to throw you off. Even if you do get thrown off, it has such a low cd and relative manacost you can use it several times a teamfight.
As for being worse than Rhasta, I have zero idea what you're talking about. Not only does Rhasta's hold have less range, but that hero simply can't take the focus fire that hold invariably attracts - try early game harassing with Rhasta's hold and that's a fast way to give up first blood. That's offset by his ability to combine the hold with his wards.
In any case, both heroes are completely different.
Rhasta
1) Weak nuke for pushing
2) Hex disable
3) Channeling hold disable
4) Wards for pushing
Electrician
1) Channeling hold disable
2) Tanking shield
3) Mana regen/minor AoE burst/tanking buff
4) Purge
Rhasta pushes and disables, Electrician ganks and tanks. If you're trying to push down that tower before their entire team runs in, Electrician (especially with the removal of his AOE) won't get shit done. Rhasta can drops wards, grabs the kill and TP out. Likewise, if Hammerstorm runs in and stuns with his ult on, he's going to three-shot Rhasta before he knows what hit him. Electrician will not only survive the stun, but he'll purge the ult and grapple, turning the MoM and Armlet-activated idiot into a gigantic bullseye.
I still have yet to hear any sound argument why he was useless.Won said:
And I don't buy that "well he's not a threat so he can't tank dur" crap at all. There's a million ways you can build him to be useful in teamfights. Outside of his purge and his ridiculous disable, he can build a ton of items that makes him a useful member of the team, and thus, an important target to shut down.
Shiva's
Nome's
Orchid
Mek
Guinsoo
Puzzlebox
Radiance
Demonic Breastplate
Barrier Idol
Any of those are welcome additions to a teamfight that can only hurt the opposition's chances.
Only original S2 hero that I wholeheartedly support. It's just a shame they had to turn him into another PEW PEW hero for no reason whatsoever.TheExodu5 said:
hauton said:
Well check and mate.
Oh wait, I meant hurf and blurf. Imaginary scenarios are nice but things work out differently in practice. Old Electrician was a mediocre disable and a purge who could subsequently be ignored. Hence why he saw little use.
hauton said:
All of those are welcome additions on any hero, except that A) other heroes are inherently more useful than old electrician and B) old electrician was awful at farming, both creeps and hero kills - how do you propose to farm out endgame items in any decent amount of time when you're playing a hero that can't farm and frankly shouldn't be farming as the gold is better used on someone more, oh, useful?
hauton said:
What? The spirit of Electrician is very much intact, only now he does useful amounts of damage and his skills actually promote ganking rather than this imaginary super tank/aggro ability everyone seems to think he had.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I hate tier discussions. Balancing a game like this with 60 heroes is impossible. Just because hero A is more popular than hero B does not mean hero A is better than hero B. Players have different skills, and in every game every situation is different. Only in rare situations do you have a broken hero (Engineer's Turret), which leads the devs to nerf it so no one ever uses him again, then tinker him (pun intended) a few more times until they think he's balanced, but with the end result that no one uses him again.
At least that's what I think.
At least that's what I think.
lol you're really reaching aren't you?JoeMartin said:
When have I said anything imaginary?
Rhasta's wards are useful when you need to push. Which, since that's the, you know, entire point of the game, is a pretty realistic scenario bro!
Electrician's purge are useful when you can to get rid of an enemy buff. What, are you trying to tell me buffs in this game are imaginary too?
Both have their separate uses as well.
Rhasta can ward trap an opponent with Hex or Cyclone Stick.
Purge can also save allies (getting rid of DoTs/buffing their mspd to escape) and chase (mspd debuff, esp. w/ Purge's long range)
You're simply delusional if you're trying to claim that there is a substantive advantage between one over the other. They're completely different heroes and if you can't see that you really don't get this game.
What a surprise you're talking out your ass.
A) Almost every single one of those items synergizes with Electrician - whether it's armour/INT/STR. Sure any item beats no item, but Electrician gets much more use out of items like Frostfield, Breastplate and Nome's than most. Not to mention carrying anything like Radiance or Demonic makes you a gigantic target, which guess what, Electrician can handle WHAT A SURPRISE :O
B) AOE grip and AOE burst made Electrician a very competent farmer, alongside high STR and lasthit capability
C) Gank gank gank gank gank - you don't need to cs if you've been grabbing kills every 2 minutes
Except he never needed it.
For all your bluster about Rhasta having been always better than old Elect:
http://honstats.heroku.com/heroes/show?hero_names[]=Electrician&hero_names[]=Pollywog+Priest&stat_name=percent_win
Electrician has almost always been noticeably better in the only stat that really counts for anything - Win%. In fact, the buff has made his win% skyrocket dramatically, indicating the imbalance of a completely unnecessary buff.
In terms of usage:
http://honstats.heroku.com/heroes/show?hero_names[]=Electrician&hero_names[]=Pollywog+Priest&stat_name=matches_played
Again Elect was always on top - shows how useless he was if more people wanted to play him over Rhasta.
hauton:
I don't think I need to rehash Joe's post (which carefully and thoroughly explains why Electrician was junk prior to the patch)... but in a nutshell... Electrician couldn't sufficiently do his job due to the ease in which other heroes could interrupt him.
You mentioning high end, hard to farm items, is understandable. Perhaps most of your gaming experience in HoN is in the -em realm. I don't know. I don't want to assume. But prior to the patch... it was extremely difficult to farm with a hero that had trouble last hitting with auto attacks... and who's primary last hitting spell (as you claim) requires you to get extremely close to creeps and opposing heroes (promoting heavy heavy harass). Although these high end items pair well with this hero... I think that most everyone on these boards will agree just how difficult it is to get those items when you cannot properly farm.
Grip... a wonderful skill, no doubt... was rendered basically useless against any competent HoN gamer. Not only can it be quickly interrupted... but many times after a finishing cast... Electrician found himself *in* more harm than prior to the gank attempt. This has been fixed!
I don't know how much you follow the competitive scene. And I certainly don't know if you are following the development of the game. S2 has a list of picks, deaths.... EVERYTHING. They follow the trends in the game very carefully. They recognized how little Electrician and Zephyr were being chosen and decided to rework them accordingly (maybe even a little TOO much). Thus far... the competitive scene has embraced the new Electrician... and he's finally become the ganking strength hero they envisioned from the beginning.
Shit... I think I rehashed exactly what Joe said. I'd give Joe a little more credit, hauton. He knows what he's talking about
I don't think I need to rehash Joe's post (which carefully and thoroughly explains why Electrician was junk prior to the patch)... but in a nutshell... Electrician couldn't sufficiently do his job due to the ease in which other heroes could interrupt him.
You mentioning high end, hard to farm items, is understandable. Perhaps most of your gaming experience in HoN is in the -em realm. I don't know. I don't want to assume. But prior to the patch... it was extremely difficult to farm with a hero that had trouble last hitting with auto attacks... and who's primary last hitting spell (as you claim) requires you to get extremely close to creeps and opposing heroes (promoting heavy heavy harass). Although these high end items pair well with this hero... I think that most everyone on these boards will agree just how difficult it is to get those items when you cannot properly farm.
Grip... a wonderful skill, no doubt... was rendered basically useless against any competent HoN gamer. Not only can it be quickly interrupted... but many times after a finishing cast... Electrician found himself *in* more harm than prior to the gank attempt. This has been fixed!
I don't know how much you follow the competitive scene. And I certainly don't know if you are following the development of the game. S2 has a list of picks, deaths.... EVERYTHING. They follow the trends in the game very carefully. They recognized how little Electrician and Zephyr were being chosen and decided to rework them accordingly (maybe even a little TOO much). Thus far... the competitive scene has embraced the new Electrician... and he's finally become the ganking strength hero they envisioned from the beginning.
Shit... I think I rehashed exactly what Joe said. I'd give Joe a little more credit, hauton. He knows what he's talking about
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Lately I've managed to increase my KD with an old favorite, Lion.
If it sheds any light I casually pub at 1650+ PSR, 0% em, kdr and adr at like 1.5 and 2.5 respectively.hobart said:hauton:
I don't think I need to rehash Joe's post (which carefully and thoroughly explains why Electrician was junk prior to the patch)... but in a nutshell... Electrician couldn't sufficiently do his job due to the ease in which other heroes could interrupt him.
You mentioning high end, hard to farm items, is understandable. Perhaps most of your gaming experience in HoN is in the -em realm. I don't know. I don't want to assume. But prior to the patch... it was extremely difficult to farm with a hero that had trouble last hitting with auto attacks... and who's primary last hitting spell (as you claim) requires you to get extremely close to creeps and opposing heroes (promoting heavy heavy harass). Although these high end items pair well with this hero... I think that most everyone on these boards will agree just how difficult it is to get those items when you cannot properly farm.
Grip... a wonderful skill, no doubt... was rendered basically useless against any competent HoN gamer. Not only can it be quickly interrupted... but many times after a finishing cast... Electrician found himself *in* more harm than prior to the gank attempt. This has been fixed!
I don't know how much you follow the competitive scene. And I certainly don't know if you are following the development of the game. S2 has a list of picks, deaths.... EVERYTHING. They follow the trends in the game very carefully. They recognized how little Electrician and Zephyr were being chosen and decided to rework them accordingly (maybe even a little TOO much). Thus far... the competitive scene has embraced the new Electrician... and he's finally become the ganking strength hero they envisioned from the beginning.
Shit... I think I rehashed exactly what Joe said. I'd give Joe a little more credit, hauton. He knows what he's talking about
Farming for items - I don't see the problem. Your argument about being focus-fired when grip-bursting creeps is asinine - obviously you're not going to grip-burst creeps if you're going to pull yourself into heavy harass or even a gank. Grip-burst was extremely effective in pushing/defending and isolated freefarm - with Frostfield you could clear entire waves throughout the game. Your ability to farm early game comes from your strong lasthit dmg, your ability to take harass and return harass like nobody's business, and the fact that you should be ganking like a madman in the first place.
In terms of grip, I don't know what to tell you. If you can't use grip effectively, then you might as well not bother with Voodoo, Succubus, Tempest, Panda and every other hero with a channeling spell, most of which are high cd ults whose failure is even more detrimental in a teamfight. I mean if you're that bad at choosing targets, baiting cds and waiting for the right time to go in, then build a bkb and be done with it ffs.
As for grip landing yourself in more trouble, what kind of ganks are you trying to pull? 1v3? You tank like no other and you have a purge to get rid of debuffs - if you can't survive a gank with those skills then you probably were barking up the wrong tree anyways.
Anyways I still don't think Joe's that informed given his "Elect's just a bad Rhasta" comment which is laughable in pretty much every single manner (completely different roles, lower win%, etc.).
Well I'm not gonna beat this point into the ground anymore past this.
But first off pulling stats the dumbest thing ever. Honestly no one really cares what stat level you play at if you can't argue a valid point for the hero aside from anecdotal situations where x hero is better than y because of imaginary happenstance z. The short point aside that 1650+ pubs is hardly impressive, the larger point is that pubs of any level is even less representative of how the game is balanced. Even worse is that you're using the heroes' win percentage (which is a stats record consisting of 99.9% pub games, 99% of which are terrible players playing terrible games against other terrible players) as a basis for comparison of a hero's worth, which is laughable to say the least. This game always has and always will be balanced around competitive viability, and I can assure you the developers are very much in tune with the competitive community and the mores of the metagame. A lot of great players have the ear of the developers, and even more great players are regular contributors to balance discussion and progression.
Second off, the reason the Electrician changes happened in the first place was because the beta-beta balance community in conjunction with the hero balance developer all came to the conclusion the that Electrician was A) bad at his intended role and B) was in fact just a worse Pollywog. You can scream role all you want (which is also ironic as Pollywog's is the same - only he's better at it - while simultaneously being a great pusher), the fact of the matter is that Electrician's toolset was two and a half useful spells short of being Pollywog. Hell, in my opinion it still is (well okay, only 2 skills short - his sotm'd ulti is pretty okay). People used to debate whether it was Electrician or Rampage that was the most useless hero. He was being compared to Rampage, for God's sake. And while he did get better in the sense that he's not 100% useless while his grip is off CD, he got buffed in the wrong direction in my opinion.
I mean if you enjoy the hero then more power to you hauton - God knows any hero in the right pub can stomp. But the fact of the matter is that he was downright awful in competition and was subsequently buffed into a hero whose competitive use is still dubious. If you can't see why then I don't know what to tell you.
But first off pulling stats the dumbest thing ever. Honestly no one really cares what stat level you play at if you can't argue a valid point for the hero aside from anecdotal situations where x hero is better than y because of imaginary happenstance z. The short point aside that 1650+ pubs is hardly impressive, the larger point is that pubs of any level is even less representative of how the game is balanced. Even worse is that you're using the heroes' win percentage (which is a stats record consisting of 99.9% pub games, 99% of which are terrible players playing terrible games against other terrible players) as a basis for comparison of a hero's worth, which is laughable to say the least. This game always has and always will be balanced around competitive viability, and I can assure you the developers are very much in tune with the competitive community and the mores of the metagame. A lot of great players have the ear of the developers, and even more great players are regular contributors to balance discussion and progression.
Second off, the reason the Electrician changes happened in the first place was because the beta-beta balance community in conjunction with the hero balance developer all came to the conclusion the that Electrician was A) bad at his intended role and B) was in fact just a worse Pollywog. You can scream role all you want (which is also ironic as Pollywog's is the same - only he's better at it - while simultaneously being a great pusher), the fact of the matter is that Electrician's toolset was two and a half useful spells short of being Pollywog. Hell, in my opinion it still is (well okay, only 2 skills short - his sotm'd ulti is pretty okay). People used to debate whether it was Electrician or Rampage that was the most useless hero. He was being compared to Rampage, for God's sake. And while he did get better in the sense that he's not 100% useless while his grip is off CD, he got buffed in the wrong direction in my opinion.
I mean if you enjoy the hero then more power to you hauton - God knows any hero in the right pub can stomp. But the fact of the matter is that he was downright awful in competition and was subsequently buffed into a hero whose competitive use is still dubious. If you can't see why then I don't know what to tell you.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Looks like im shaking off finger rust too, hitting 70s on intense games.
In regards to Electrician theorycrafting all i can say is that he's pretty popular pic in pubs.
In regards to Electrician theorycrafting all i can say is that he's pretty popular pic in pubs.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Just got a beta code from a buddy on steam. He actually hooked up my friend and I up who hang out on vent together. Just got done with my first match with my vent buddy.
Pregame interface and chat lobby seemed kinda weird and unintuitive. In game everything was smooth though. I lost my first match in a close battle. We both were at the final structure, but I knew my friend was ahead of me.
Game ran smooth, I had everything maxed out and all the settings on except vsync (which I'm gonna turn on next time) and was getting 60+ fps in 1080p. I hadn't played DOTA in years, but my vent friend and I did try out LOL sometime last fall in beta. Maps felt bigger than LOL to me, but I could be crazy. Friend seemed to like the in game alot better, and said he'd actually play this a bunch. We played LOL for like 2 days and never went back for some reason.
Only gripe I have is for some reason whenever I quit out, and then relaunch the program my friend's list is always wiped. I can't figure out wtf I am doing wrong there.
Also I didn't notice as we both just quit out post match, but is there any sort of level progression system with power ups outside each match or is it purely just a leader board thing?
Pregame interface and chat lobby seemed kinda weird and unintuitive. In game everything was smooth though. I lost my first match in a close battle. We both were at the final structure, but I knew my friend was ahead of me.
Game ran smooth, I had everything maxed out and all the settings on except vsync (which I'm gonna turn on next time) and was getting 60+ fps in 1080p. I hadn't played DOTA in years, but my vent friend and I did try out LOL sometime last fall in beta. Maps felt bigger than LOL to me, but I could be crazy. Friend seemed to like the in game alot better, and said he'd actually play this a bunch. We played LOL for like 2 days and never went back for some reason.
Only gripe I have is for some reason whenever I quit out, and then relaunch the program my friend's list is always wiped. I can't figure out wtf I am doing wrong there.
Also I didn't notice as we both just quit out post match, but is there any sort of level progression system with power ups outside each match or is it purely just a leader board thing?
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
MiniKelly said:
Thanks for the info! The FL thing was annoying, and I didn't want to be like doah I'm doing it wrong.
Torn on the non persistence outside game thing. It's nice in that I don't feel like I have to play catch up or work on some min max spec. Yet at the same time it is something cool to do and rewarding post match. Plus it's another way to differentiate players.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
mint said:
Um I'd glady join though I can't say I am any good. I played a practice match before my big TF2 game last night.
How do Clans work? Do they work unlike friend's lists? What do I need to do? I'd like to join if only to have a pool of people to play with or against verses random people. I have a couple steam friends that play, but not many.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Lyphen said:
How do I go about doing this though? You guys need my HoN user name? Do I need to get on and talk with someone?
Actually I forgot I already have you on my FL on steam so I'll message you there Lyphen!
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
My HoN ID is Vanillalite
That is also my Steam ID if anyone wants to PM me there!
Thanks for even thinking of including me guys!
That is also my Steam ID if anyone wants to PM me there!
Thanks for even thinking of including me guys!
Do "/join clan neogaf" without the quotes. That will get you into the channel. Someone with the clan rights will add you (I think it's the users with the medal by their name?).
And yeah, don't worry about sucking. I get death threats pretty regularly in public games, but GAF has yet to tell me I should go kill myself.
And yeah, don't worry about sucking. I get death threats pretty regularly in public games, but GAF has yet to tell me I should go kill myself.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
EPIC WESS GAME!
lmao!
lmao!
NinjaBoyLao
Member
J-Rod said:
cool. I will stopped playing last year because I got sick of flamers.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Thanks for letting me in last night guys!
I also won my 1st match that I was playing at the time too! Think it was a mismatch with my buddy though in terms of the characters we were. I dominated last nights game, and we both agreed we're much closer in skill. Heck I'd probably say he's better, but everything went right for me.
I also won my 1st match that I was playing at the time too! Think it was a mismatch with my buddy though in terms of the characters we were. I dominated last nights game, and we both agreed we're much closer in skill. Heck I'd probably say he's better, but everything went right for me.
Then again, the regular death threats are if anything a good reminder to not do make that mistake again. I sure learned fast that way, as I went from the initial 1500 to 1250 in 20 games, and now I haven't lost in 10 games or so. Might have ben bad/good luck with teams though, but I'm sure improving. Can't remember when I last got yelled at, this being my 40th game.
So yeah, take the yelling with a grain of salt, but remember, you're being yelled at for a reason. Learn from your mistakes.
I sure learned fast that way, as I went from the initial 1500 to 1250 in 20 games, and now I haven't lost in 10 games or so. Might have ben bad/good luck with teams though, but I'm sure improving. Can't remember when I last got yelled at, this being my 40th game.So yeah, take the yelling with a grain of salt, but remember, you're being yelled at for a reason. Learn from your mistakes.
Game 26712910.
Worst Valkyrie and Magebane you have ever laid your eyes on. Valk dies to a Witchslayer with Invis rune twice, after I warned her both times saying "WITCHSLAYER WITH INVIS RUNE COMING TO YOU VALK". Magebane charges in thinking he can solo them and blink out, until Witchslayer and Scout shuts him down for 10 seconds.
He then afks in the center of the stage for no reason.
During an attempt to BD the throne (it was red), Warbeast and I (controlling a DC'd Valk) sneak into the base and try to get the throne. Valk reconnects the moment I try to attack the throne, turns the other way, and then leaps out.
A stacked scout, (Wingbow, Basher, Shieldbreaker), BDs all our raxes and they get Megas. Somehow Warbeast managed to rush to the throne and kill what was left of it.
What a fucking stupid game.
Worst Valkyrie and Magebane you have ever laid your eyes on. Valk dies to a Witchslayer with Invis rune twice, after I warned her both times saying "WITCHSLAYER WITH INVIS RUNE COMING TO YOU VALK". Magebane charges in thinking he can solo them and blink out, until Witchslayer and Scout shuts him down for 10 seconds.
He then afks in the center of the stage for no reason.
During an attempt to BD the throne (it was red), Warbeast and I (controlling a DC'd Valk) sneak into the base and try to get the throne. Valk reconnects the moment I try to attack the throne, turns the other way, and then leaps out.
A stacked scout, (Wingbow, Basher, Shieldbreaker), BDs all our raxes and they get Megas. Somehow Warbeast managed to rush to the throne and kill what was left of it.
What a fucking stupid game.