Amen brother, preach.
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Heroes of the Storm |OT3| Chromiehounds
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Amen brother, preach.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Dunno what happened either, his viewership numbers dropped like a rock a couple months ago.
ere is the clue they gave us on the new hero 
rhymed poem (keep in mind it's a rough translation from Polish)
*You won't find him here*
*The Pain is what you get*
*You've got the power*
The last part is actually a polish version of Disney's *Let it go* song (used as a dunno how to end the poem line)
rhymed poem (keep in mind it's a rough translation from Polish)*You won't find him here*
*The Pain is what you get*
*You've got the power*
The last part is actually a polish version of Disney's *Let it go* song (used as a dunno how to end the poem line)
If you can group them all together, maybe Jaina? But he gets an actual advantage for clearing a wave due to the undead, so that's probably still better.
That could either refer to stealth (Stukov uses the Ghost unit, even though he wouldn't be one since he's from Earth), not being on the battlefield (as a co-op commander Stukov doesn't appear on the battlefield in SC2), or the fact that Stukov is Russian (not Polish).
Early game probably not but later in the game I think those fit :
KT
Powered up Azmo
Gul dan
off the top of my head
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Trying to play solo QM is like herding cats while pulling your own teeth. It's excrutiating when people don't want to group or end properly and quickly. My heart can't keep living on the edge of multiple throws like that.
Zuljin has guillotine and the extra range from lvl 1 quest to hit the back line
Just had this epic shitshow of a match:
Had to B after every fucking engage. Tracer is fun as fuck, but god damn. That was some aids to run up against. They got the first few DKs and we were lucky to sneak a few in as well, with the major one being the last one. Both of the teams had 3 down at the time, with them coming up faster than us, but I was able to take down a keep that was almost dead and solo the core against Tychus and Guldan. Our Guldan was account level 12 or some shit with 20~ some odd games in QM and the Rag only had 46 according to Hotslogs.
Had to B after every fucking engage. Tracer is fun as fuck, but god damn. That was some aids to run up against. They got the first few DKs and we were lucky to sneak a few in as well, with the major one being the last one. Both of the teams had 3 down at the time, with them coming up faster than us, but I was able to take down a keep that was almost dead and solo the core against Tychus and Guldan. Our Guldan was account level 12 or some shit with 20~ some odd games in QM and the Rag only had 46 according to Hotslogs.
nah he cant get to them without dying, no mobility and paper hp
for comp play at least it's a big part of why valla is straight up better than him and why he only sees play on maps like braxis
now that tychus's range is so low zuljin could step up in a similar role since he basically does comparable dmg to the front line, tho he doesnt burst like tychus
I honestly don't think these Murky nerfs will have a huge impact on my winrate with him. Like yeah, maybe I won't take quite as many merc camps for free now but other than that? I wasn't using rejuv bubble most of the time anyway since I feel like fish tank is the better option, as Alur said. Due to all the Valeeras in qm I also swtiched from the slow at 7 to the slime range because it makes kiting a lot easier and I can bring Valeera out of stealth before she globals me. March is still the way better ult if you don't have a coordinated team so I'll still pick it despite the increased cooldown.
Maybe I'll die a bit more often even if it's only a slight nerf to his health but it's not like that matters too much. I can still wear down the enemy team by throwing myself at them over and over again. It's just fucked when the enemy team doesn't have a support because the damage I'm doing sticks.
Had a game yesterday on sky temple where the enemy team was taking one temple and my team the other. I would just throw myself at the enemy team to disrupt and annoy them with puffer and slimes. Once my team was done and rotated up, I threw march on the temple and we wiped them without a problem.
Maybe I'll die a bit more often even if it's only a slight nerf to his health but it's not like that matters too much. I can still wear down the enemy team by throwing myself at them over and over again. It's just fucked when the enemy team doesn't have a support because the damage I'm doing sticks.
Had a game yesterday on sky temple where the enemy team was taking one temple and my team the other. I would just throw myself at the enemy team to disrupt and annoy them with puffer and slimes. Once my team was done and rotated up, I threw march on the temple and we wiped them without a problem.
I think you are kind of spot on, and depending on how you view Murky it can be a good or bad thing.
On the one hand it may not knock him down enough yet (which would suck), but on the other at least they didn't bust him with a sledgehammer. If they mostly just tweak his numbers I think they can find the right balance between halfway decent and oppressive.
Someone said Friday at IEM I believe.
Should be this weekend due to a recent article.
For anybody that cares, the Western Clash will be played on the Feb 17th patch not the current one.
I'm certainly glad they didn't do that especially since I kind of expected them to because playing Murky over the last two weeks has been a fun and honestly relaxing experience. You don't really have to worry about anything, there's almost no downtime and you can kind of always do what your team needs. Are they dying a whole bunch? Make sure you don't fall behind too much by soaking the lanes which he can do extremely efficiently. Need to pick off people that are by themselves and out of position? Murky is great at 1v1 later in the game. Need to make sure you get a good engage? March of the Murlocs is your friend. Need to delay and disrupt for an objective? Can do that all day if they don't find my egg. All that without worrying about dying.
I feel like that makes him hard to balance between quickmatch and hero/team league. He can punish uncoordinated teams hard but if you nerf him to the point where that's not the case anymore he'll be absolute garbage tier in those modes. A lot of people seem fine with that and I sure don't blame them, I just don't know that Blizzard can win with this hero.
You don't want murky to be good against buildings, under any circumstances. Not sure if you were there in early alpha, but he used to be good against buildings. It was a toxic nightmare that makes the last week look fun. He turns into a suicide bomber who forces down forts and keeps and there's nothing you can do to stop it. It's like an unstoppable push Azmodan.
Murky needs to be weak against buildings.
Murky needs to be weak against buildings.
If you're referring to the discussion on THH, that was mostly framed around competitive. They admitted he was strong in HL, it's just you can't do the things Murky does when a team is coordinated around killing you/your egg unless you go all in with him.
Just because it was done badly doesn't mean it shouldn't be done that way.
You're right They are very scared of recreating what you're talking about.
But look at his kit, he's clearly designed to be good at pve bad at pvp.
But they've constantly been trying to shoe horn him into something he's not.
It's why murky has never been balanced.
Similar reason to why gaz has always been bad and sylv has always good. PvE is super hard for them to get right. But that doesn't mean murky shouldn't be a pve hero.
Murky being good at pve doesn't make sense with his kit though. You don't die when doing pve, so his trait isn't much use, unless it's being used for suicide runs (which are toxic and to be avoided.
I really don't have any idea on murky balance though to be fair beyond what I don't like - because I consider his entire concept a complete disaster and fuck up that shouldn't be in the game. I fundamentally think his trait is a dumb, unfun idea that shouldn't exist. So I'm *really* bad at judging what he should be strong at!
I really don't have any idea on murky balance though to be fair beyond what I don't like - because I consider his entire concept a complete disaster and fuck up that shouldn't be in the game. I fundamentally think his trait is a dumb, unfun idea that shouldn't exist. So I'm *really* bad at judging what he should be strong at!
Honestly, every hero that is too PVE focused in this game gets passed over or ignored for heroes that can team fight. I mean, the game was literally called a "team brawler" until late last year. It's all about team fighting, and a hero that can't do that decently well will never have a place unless they are completely broken the other way.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Poor Samuro.
TheSadRanger
Banned
Moving echo of heaven to 16 and completely removing the 16 talent that healed more for each allied hero near you was a bit too much imo.
It's not like it was the only choice at 16 either since Khara also had that 16 talent that used to make W remove roots and slows. Don't really know why that was removed either.
Yea I wasn't really a fan of his rework and I used to love playing Khara.
Yes.
But it doesn't have to be that way.
.... well maybe it does because every map has objectives, and winning team fights win objectives
So split pushing heroes need to be competitive with objectives?
But that's what makes them op
Split pushing being OP has been incredibly toxic every single time it's been good. Players are so trained with an emphasis on their objectives and the lanes they are in that something constantly requiring a response that isn't one of those things basically breaks down the fabric of the game.
It goes from a basic uncoordinated kids soccer game to having two balls on the field in an uncoordinated kids soccer game. Half can't be assed to chase the other ball, and the other half are just pissed off there is another ball period.
It goes from a basic uncoordinated kids soccer game to having two balls on the field in an uncoordinated kids soccer game. Half can't be assed to chase the other ball, and the other half are just pissed off there is another ball period.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I thought blizzard killed Kharazim with the rework but he's seen a resurgence in competitive since. So much so that I'd consider Bakery's reluctance to play him a major flaw for dignitas.
It's all Iron Fist though.
It's all Iron Fist though.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It was funny at first but bakery has one of the weakest support pools of any top tier team because of exclusions like that.
Not sure if it was fortunate for him that his oddball supports either got buffed or meta again in Malf and Rehgar.
Not sure if it was fortunate for him that his oddball supports either got buffed or meta again in Malf and Rehgar.
I guess that's kind of always been true about him though, right? He's the most pre-Team 8 Glaurung type of the supports. Really has never had much of a hero pool. He's managed to make it work well enough, I guess, but agreed it would help him if he was more diverse.
That's been my thing with him. I was 70%+ winrate with Kharazim across like 100-125 games in his release form as heals. When we'd be losing, I'd swap to Kharazim and we could usually get a win. Once he was changed when I've played him it's always been as solo support and healing wise it doesn't feel quite as good and if I go damage it seems like I can't quite get the job done.
On the other hand, proto plays him a lot damage focused and does pretty well. It's just something I'm not getting I guess.
Kharazim has pretty good base healing, prob top 3/4 support atm, pretty good in all situations.
Split pushing in this game is pretty similar to other mobas w/ the caveat that the maps are a lot smaller in hots, and mounts and mercs exist. In other mobas having 1v1 potential, an escape, and a way to get to fights are all necesary and you pretty much see the same in hots w/ dehaka and falstad who are the most prominent splitters. Plus abathur i guess
Split pushing in this game is pretty similar to other mobas w/ the caveat that the maps are a lot smaller in hots, and mounts and mercs exist. In other mobas having 1v1 potential, an escape, and a way to get to fights are all necesary and you pretty much see the same in hots w/ dehaka and falstad who are the most prominent splitters. Plus abathur i guess
Maybe he doesn't need as much healing if everything dies around him.
I guess I'm referring to split pushing as actually taking structures. Not just soaking lanes. When a hero has been able to take structures while split pushing solo, it's always been a bad ride for everyone else not playing that hero.
Soaking lanes has been okay-ish for the most part, though those global heroes have swung games pretty often just having em around. Enough so that all their global abilities have been hit at least once.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It worked when he was making the meta but the rest of EU managed to catch up to him while playing all the supports. His pool got better, he was adamant in BW being bad for instance but he still picked her up, he plays all the new supports. Right now it's really just Kharazim that's lacking entirely.
I mean ffs he played and won with Uther and against Fnatic no less.
I think in hots that usually manifests in waveclear/push vs. no waveclear, but i mean all you have to do is swap lanes in bad matchups because the lanes are such a short distance from each other. On a macro level theres structure killing during trades too (stall the obj to come ahead in exp), but again that can be mirrored by the enemy team...
Like in league and dota split pushers will want to draw enemies to their lane and do the loopdy loop forcing them to sit there in order to not lose resources like structures and last hits while joining their team for the 5v4, i think the closest thing hots has to that are just fast waveclear + globals, cuz that's the main way to outmaneuver here
Oh also im working on the trad. understanding of split push, which is about map manipulation
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W/r/t monk, he just seems like a really generalizable support, you need to make up for his lack of cc and he isnt as comboworthy as a lot of the more focused supports. But his numbers are good and he doesnt need to be protected those are all pluses, and his ults are both good too
Bakery prob just doesnt privilege him in a stun heavy meta
Like in league and dota split pushers will want to draw enemies to their lane and do the loopdy loop forcing them to sit there in order to not lose resources like structures and last hits while joining their team for the 5v4, i think the closest thing hots has to that are just fast waveclear + globals, cuz that's the main way to outmaneuver here
Oh also im working on the trad. understanding of split push, which is about map manipulation
__
W/r/t monk, he just seems like a really generalizable support, you need to make up for his lack of cc and he isnt as comboworthy as a lot of the more focused supports. But his numbers are good and he doesnt need to be protected those are all pluses, and his ults are both good too
Bakery prob just doesnt privilege him in a stun heavy meta