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Heroes of the Storm |OT3| Chromiehounds
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
I feel the same. The Facebook Dorm thing has been a failure on an unprecedented magnitude. Not only is no one watching it, but even if they wanted to it's hard to due to all the issues they've encountered. I have no clue how they'll do an event live with the player.
I do feel like taking a month long (or has it been longer? Definitely has for non clash teams) pro break for this amateur tournament is kind of dumb in hindsight as well. Two weeks? Sure. But longer than that mid season? Ehhh.
Time for my bi-monthly rant on ITN. I love the show, but man listening to Kyle bloviate about his HL experience/meta knowledge (or lack thereof) is just like nails on a chalkboard sometimes. I get the dude takes the game way more seriously than, well, pretty much anyone in this thread or that I play with, but the sheer amount of projecting he does on the motivations and such of the random people he plays with is just amazing to me.
This week it's that he has to play Muradin/tank on the weekends because he needs to lead the group because the weekend warriors aren't focused, but needs to be the main assassin during the weeks. He based that off a five game losing streak on Muradin after a five game winning streak. Welcome to matchmaking, sir. There probably wasn't anything special about any of those ten games bar some drafting issues or one or two bad plays, but you've turned it into something it's not trying to deduct reason from a 20 minute game where hundreds of decisions are made collectively and individually. It makes sense to reflect and figure out where/why a game went by, but to project some kind of trend on it that doesn't involve you - the only figure in each of those games in a HL setting - is kind of insane to me.
If it didn't turn into a 10-15 or more minute segment each week it wouldn't be a huge deal, but as the show goes on this is indulged more and more as he feels he's more and more knowledgeable. That sucks. /end bi-monthly rant
Yes it was.
IIRC they took it even before/around last year's dorm. I forget when the Facebook integration first showed up in the launcher. Perhaps they thought that the folks like us, the hardcore competitive viewership, would watch it regardless of where it was broadcast. Certainly I'm sure they expected the same kind of backlash they had re: ESPN (and they got it, though not as massively as the first ESPN broadcast was), but that people would ultimately still watch despite the bitching like they did with ESPN...the problem being that even if you want to watch it, the stream continues to mess up.
This week it's that he has to play Muradin/tank on the weekends because he needs to lead the group because the weekend warriors aren't focused, but needs to be the main assassin during the weeks. He based that off a five game losing streak on Muradin after a five game winning streak. Welcome to matchmaking, sir. There probably wasn't anything special about any of those ten games bar some drafting issues or one or two bad plays, but you've turned it into something it's not trying to deduct reason from a 20 minute game where hundreds of decisions are made collectively and individually. It makes sense to reflect and figure out where/why a game went by, but to project some kind of trend on it that doesn't involve you - the only figure in each of those games in a HL setting - is kind of insane to me.
If it didn't turn into a 10-15 or more minute segment each week it wouldn't be a huge deal, but as the show goes on this is indulged more and more as he feels he's more and more knowledgeable. That sucks. /end bi-monthly rant
Yes it was.
IIRC they took it even before/around last year's dorm. I forget when the Facebook integration first showed up in the launcher. Perhaps they thought that the folks like us, the hardcore competitive viewership, would watch it regardless of where it was broadcast. Certainly I'm sure they expected the same kind of backlash they had re: ESPN (and they got it, though not as massively as the first ESPN broadcast was), but that people would ultimately still watch despite the bitching like they did with ESPN...the problem being that even if you want to watch it, the stream continues to mess up.
When we really want to try hard, typically me or proto play tank and heal in some form or fashion. We just don't try hard very much, and typically depending on who is in the group it's better for one or both of us to be the damage instead of the support. Like outside of a couple heroes, there's probably no time we'd want to win and not be better off having proto as damage instead of Kio (and me in most scenarios). Same for Milly. They are just better at assassins and they have the most impact.
Outside of feeding, a tank typically can't lose you the game, but the assassin can lose it in a variety of ways. That's why solo HL is such a crap shoot IMO. You have to trust whichever two or three pick damage to be able to secure the kills you set up as tank/allow them to be alive for as support, and you can't really do that game to game.
Outside of feeding, a tank typically can't lose you the game, but the assassin can lose it in a variety of ways. That's why solo HL is such a crap shoot IMO. You have to trust whichever two or three pick damage to be able to secure the kills you set up as tank/allow them to be alive for as support, and you can't really do that game to game.
I'm a little confused at your first statement. When you want to try hard do you go damage or tank/healer? I mean sure you put Proto, Brian, Milly or you at the most impact which is probably assassins. Which is probably why I'm usually filling as support because I still have too much bloodlust as a tank for now.
If we were really try harding as a group, I'd be tanking or healing. We typically do pretty well with me tanking, proto healing (or vice versa for me and proto), and Milly damaging, but that's when it's just us three. I used to always support, but the support meta hasn't really favored me for a long time. I've never jived with new BW, my Auriel and Morales winrates have never been great (though that hasn't really been my fault in most cases), Rehgar went back to being a heal bot and fell out of the meta for a while, Uther has been in the dumpster forever, etc.
I dunno, I guess maybe you're right at the top end. I'm talking more about just regular games at our MMR level (Diamond and below, and it gets worse the further down you go) it's the assassins who decide the game. You can set up all kinds of stuff as a tank, or clutch heal your ass off as a support, but if there's no follow up you just die and then they die.
It's hard to be the tank or heals in lower tiers because you can't be sure anyone is actually going to do any job. In diamond it feels more like "our Valla is ok but their "x" is performing way better so we'd have probably been better off with a mediocre tank and great dps than a great tank and only mediocre dps. In plat and below you pretty much have to be the "carry" and have wave clear or suffer the consequences. You can't really do enough to change the game on tank or support IMO.
You see the same thing in OW. It's harder to rank up as a tank or healer because you're not as impactful. DPS make up a disproportionate amount of the top 500 OW ranks because they can carry their team.
Like, even last night, was playing OW in QP. and on Ruins we were losing the first 1/3d of the game, then I got 3 kills on Widow in a row and things completely flipped- we were able to push them back and keep them back. You can't make that sort of impact as Mercy or Lucio. Thats not to say Mercy or Lucio are bad characters- just that if you want to stand out with them, you probably need to play in a group. (The two finalists in OGN's OW league have their supports getting way, way more kills than their competitors.)
Like, even last night, was playing OW in QP. and on Ruins we were losing the first 1/3d of the game, then I got 3 kills on Widow in a row and things completely flipped- we were able to push them back and keep them back. You can't make that sort of impact as Mercy or Lucio. Thats not to say Mercy or Lucio are bad characters- just that if you want to stand out with them, you probably need to play in a group. (The two finalists in OGN's OW league have their supports getting way, way more kills than their competitors.)
i just mean follow up/taking opportunities to do dmg is the easily understandable part, both in terms of recognizing when to do stuff and executing, playing tank properly is harder and a reluctant tank will fuck up your team pretty hard
like a lot of ppl think tank = do the good engage win da game, but a lot of the time the whole concept of "oh i did my job as a tank wheres the damage from my team" is off the mark, the tank did not do their job because they did not enable damage.
for example, etc. does the god 4 person mosh, ppl will usually follow up, gg etc da god
etc does the three person mosh behind the enemy team while their front line runs on his assassins and goes "????" in chat because he doesnt know that he moshed unimportant ppl and left his own team w/o a front line
i often see the latter think they did something correct
conversely an assassin is just pew pew stay safe do damage gg, target ppl they can hit and all in backliners when they can blow them up
you def have like a ranging level of ability for this but in general I don't think it's particularly nuanced or anything
like a lot of ppl think tank = do the good engage win da game, but a lot of the time the whole concept of "oh i did my job as a tank wheres the damage from my team" is off the mark, the tank did not do their job because they did not enable damage.
for example, etc. does the god 4 person mosh, ppl will usually follow up, gg etc da god
etc does the three person mosh behind the enemy team while their front line runs on his assassins and goes "????" in chat because he doesnt know that he moshed unimportant ppl and left his own team w/o a front line
i often see the latter think they did something correct
conversely an assassin is just pew pew stay safe do damage gg, target ppl they can hit and all in backliners when they can blow them up
you def have like a ranging level of ability for this but in general I don't think it's particularly nuanced or anything
The only reason we ever lose is our teammates.
I think you're going a little Kyle Fergusson on this topic, though, and projecting a top level issue onto a lower level problem. I don't dispute your reasoning, I just think you're looking at it from a scenario that isn't really as applicable in lower leagues.
It's indisputably easier to carry yourself to victory in lower tiers by doing damage (bar the occasional outlier who gets overbuffed and does well at both damage AND tanking). The tank just can't have that kind of impact on the game. While yes, a bad tank can prevent you from getting that damage in, it doesn't deny you the ability to get kills outright. Bad DPS denies you the ability to do anything at all. You simply can't even engage because it's a losing proposition.
ETC can do a dumb mosh or miss his Powerslide or whatever and it sucks, but it doesn't necessarily cost you the fight. It can, but that depends on the other 4 bodies. Typically it'd only cost you ETC. However, even if ETC hits both of those abilities, in a lower league or typical HL environment he has no guarantee his teammates are gonna follow up. He does know they will probably engage, but I can't tell you the number of times I've been a game where myself or another has hit that big mosh and not shit happened...and then it broke and they wiped the whole team because ETC set up a god engage, but the players behind him weren't good enough/ready/split targets/whatever to take advantage.
EDIT: I'd also argue tanks like ETC are the exception from their warrior brethren anyway in so far as helping their team to that degree. ETC can displace and setup easily, but the list behind that is few and far between. Most can get on targets, but setting them up for their team is a different proposition entirely. That's another reason they are hard to solo queue with, and also probably a decent part of why they nerfed ETC into the ground (3rd lowest winrate in HL now, down 8.7%) because he stood out so far compared to most other tanks.
It's indisputably easier to carry yourself to victory in lower tiers by doing damage (bar the occasional outlier who gets overbuffed and does well at both damage AND tanking). The tank just can't have that kind of impact on the game. While yes, a bad tank can prevent you from getting that damage in, it doesn't deny you the ability to get kills outright. Bad DPS denies you the ability to do anything at all. You simply can't even engage because it's a losing proposition.
ETC can do a dumb mosh or miss his Powerslide or whatever and it sucks, but it doesn't necessarily cost you the fight. It can, but that depends on the other 4 bodies. Typically it'd only cost you ETC. However, even if ETC hits both of those abilities, in a lower league or typical HL environment he has no guarantee his teammates are gonna follow up. He does know they will probably engage, but I can't tell you the number of times I've been a game where myself or another has hit that big mosh and not shit happened...and then it broke and they wiped the whole team because ETC set up a god engage, but the players behind him weren't good enough/ready/split targets/whatever to take advantage.
EDIT: I'd also argue tanks like ETC are the exception from their warrior brethren anyway in so far as helping their team to that degree. ETC can displace and setup easily, but the list behind that is few and far between. Most can get on targets, but setting them up for their team is a different proposition entirely. That's another reason they are hard to solo queue with, and also probably a decent part of why they nerfed ETC into the ground (3rd lowest winrate in HL now, down 8.7%) because he stood out so far compared to most other tanks.
I def dont disagree w/ the idea that having the superior assassin playing on ur team is a huge boon. Def agree it's easier to carry with dmg at lower levels. The example i gave was trying to show that etc did not do a good engage when he thinks he did; that there are many scenarios where a tank will blame the team for lack of dmg when that dmg wasnt available in the first place. To me the nuance for playing a tank is more difficult to grasp than other roles since it's more about shaping the fight and controlling the pace.
Leave my precious alone >_<.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm just
Awesome! Congrats!
SFV did 200K on TBS.
I refuse to take this abuse from someone named Millyweed.
Ketch calls us morons and entitled babies and sometimes other stuff that gets him banarino'd
. He's never called us idiots, he just thinks it.
ur silly especially in mobas
kek remember that one
ur silly especially in mobas
Ouch straight to the heart huh D:.