A Link to the Past
Banned
How recent of games does the list cover?
How recent of games does the list cover?
The newest one is probably Danganronpa 2, or thereabouts.
Okay, let's define OoT/FFVII as "significant" games, which is the reason I assume you're discussing them. They're widely praised, they defined their generation, they influenced dozens of games, they sold like wildfire. Going by that criteria, though, there are tons of other games that should be included. Why not include Space Invaders, Pitfall, the original Super Mario Bros., Wolfenstein 3D? At that point there are obligations to include titles based more on significance versus whether we really liked them, and that was simply a project I wouldn't have been interested in creating nor interested in reading.
As an alternative way of looking at things, let's say you need to pick one "3D Zelda-type game", because this is (roughly) the way we made these picks. Let's say this occurs in a vacuum, you know nothing about the outside critical reception or sales or impact of any of these titles. You have no nostalgia for either and played them at the same time. Your choice is between Okami and Ocarina of Time. Why do you pick Ocarina? Why do you not pick Okami? Expanding that, why do you pick Ocarina over every other 3D Zelda?
There's no wrong answer, anyone's opinion is as valid as any others and solid arguments can be made based on how your prioritize your gaming likes and dislikes. I'm just saying, some titles become memes among the canon of video gaming, and the audience kind of repeats their status and doesn't really question them. This was something I explicitly wanted to avoid, to give it a little more scrutiny before saying "yeah, we agree".
And for Barkley, it got on the list because humor is incredibly rare in video gaming, especially outside of the adventure game genre. There are funny bits in various RPGs, but I've never played a game that handled genre parody so well - the closest is Earthbound, and that's a very different thing.
Can someone post a recap of their NieR text? I'm curious why they included it and if they "got" what makes it so special.
Just read it, and while he understates the OST greatly, he does "get" it. Nice!Pretty sure the same author who wrote the HG101 article did it. I'm sure they did.
Witcher 3 and Bloodborne no?The newest one is probably Danganronpa 2, or thereabouts.
Witcher 3 and Bloodborne no?
If you're trying to make a list with some real integrity, you need to separate your nostalgic feelings from the actual game when making a list like this. It's fairly easy to do this. Go back and try to play it. Hell, find a younger sibling, a niece/newphew or kid and see what they think. Not all games age well. In my mind, Chrome Trigger aged masterfully. Final Fantasy VII did not. Quaker III Arena aged decently. GoldenEye did not. Street Fighter II aged well. Killer Instinct, not so much.Also, do you really feel like you can make yourself, or anybody else, forget everything about your memories when playing a game, so your choices can be labeled as "objective"? Again, this is not how things work in real life. This list seems to be highly idealized thanks to this very hard to understand restriction that shouldn't even have been made to begin with.
What do you think are the biggest omissions?Not enough Sega games...
This is just flatout wrong. OOT is an absolute education in game design. It set so many gameplay design decisions that are still heavily used in gaming today, that DID NOT EXIST prior to it. It is perhaps one of the most important video games ever made. The same arguments can be made for Mario64 for that matter.OoT/FF7 aren't even very good video games outside the context of you being a child playing them in 1998.
Jesus, people really love the status quo."The best 200 games of all time"
Mario64 and Zelda:OOT, two games that always make top 20 lists aren't even on a top 200?
GTFO of here with that shit.
Most people don't play games to get an "education in game design."This is just flatout wrong. OOT is an absolute education in game design. It set so many gameplay design decisions that are still heavily used in gaming today, that DID NOT EXIST prior to it. It is perhaps one of the most important video games ever made. The same arguments can be made for Mario64 for that matter.
Jesus, people really love the status quo.
HG101 is my favorite place on the internet, and I love everything that is written there. It's really an awesome site. But I have to say I don't really agree with the omissions of OoT and FFVII. If you are going to be bold and add Barkley Shut Up and Jam Gaiden as one of the best games ever (and I'm okay with that), you can't just say "I will not include this and that because everybody else already did". There is a reason why these games have been included in most lists so far, and no possible explanation about omitting OoT and FFVII could ever make sense to me. Even if they were similar to sequelsin the same series, or even if there are technologically superior games available for the same console, we are talking about two groundbreaking titles that can't just stay out without seriously questioning the credibility of the list (especially after BSUAJG makes it).
TL;DR: I love HG101, I really do, but not adding OoT and FFVII to the list is very disappointing.
Wait, FF 5 and not 7? What the fack am I reading?
This is just flatout wrong. OOT is an absolute education in game design. It set so many gameplay design decisions that are still heavily used in gaming today, that DID NOT EXIST prior to it. It is perhaps one of the most important video games ever made. The same arguments can be made for Mario64 for that matter.
Red Alert 2, eh, I'd have picked C&C1 or RA1.
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Mother 3 is the "See Also" listing for Earthbound and although I don't have the book immediately on hand, I remember thinking the entry was passionate enough that it must have been a close race to decide which of those two took the main slot.That's probably one of the best lists of that type I have ever read. And by that, I mean it's pretty close to what mine would be.
Mother 3 should have been on there instead of Earthbound though.
Just read it, and while he understates the OST greatly, he does "get" it. Nice!
Never played Mother 3, so I'm curious, what do you think it does better than Earthbound?That's probably one of the best lists of that type I have ever read. And by that, I mean it's pretty close to what mine would be.
Mother 3 should have been on there instead of Earthbound though.
I don't get the relevance of this or why people insist on bringing this up. It's the "200 Best Games of All Time" list. Not the "200 Games that made me the Happiest in my Childhood of All Time."its so easy to nitpick classic games' flaws to death and loftily proclaim why in the context of 2015 their luster is lost to the ages. it's harder to recall that faded, faint memory of how amazing they were the first time, before one turns jaded and worn down by everything that has come since.
the flow of time is always cruel
I didn't say childhood; you did. What i did say, since you didn't seem to get it, is that games that have been legendary for so long lose their shine as the years go by because people get tired of hearing about them, and their memories of how amazing they were fade awayNever played Mother 3, so I'm curious, what do you think it does better than Earthbound?
I don't get the relevance of this or why people insist on bringing this up. It's the "200 Best Games of All Time" list. Not the "200 Games that made me the Happiest in my Childhood of All Time."
Spyro was the most magical game of my childhood. It wouldn't get anywhere near a hypothetical "best games" list I made.
And my point was that your memory of how amazing a game was when you were a kid, or whenever the hell you played it, is pretty irrelevant to this entire conversation.I didn't say childhood; you did. What i did say, since you didn't seem to get it, is that games that have been legendary for so long lose their shine as the years go by because people get tired of hearing about them, and their memories of how amazing they were fade away
Better to be boring and correct than different and wrong.Jesus, people really love the status quo.
Better to be boring and correct than different and wrong.
It's an opinion, it can't really be wrong.Better to be boring and correct than different and wrong.
Both Mario64 and OOT are bags of fun to play also.
Haven't been to the site, but based on the OP, the only qualifying criteria is that 'it matters'.
I was chewing through a little more of the book today and I was actually surprised to see a Ys title in here. I guess I didn't know the series was that well regarded for some reason. I've only played Memories of Celceta, so I guess I should get around to Oath!
My only real problems with this list are the inclusion of things like Sonic and All Stars Racing but not Mario Kart and Bulletstorm and not Call of Duty. I mean, neither are bad games but the ones I suggested are considered much more important for the genre.
* What do I need to play Front Mission 5 on an American PS2? Do I put the disc in my computer, and then patch it with the fan translation, and then use Magicswamp or something like that?
I'd disagree... but I respect your opinionThat's the thing, though. Important != best. Bulletstorm is far, FAR more entertaining than any CoD.
If there's one true disappointment, it's that there was nothing to represent old-school run 'n' gun Contra (that is, generally sans the setpiece battles). Or to a lesser extent, Donkey Kong '94 just missing the cut for the main list. But given that Zelda II and Puyo Puyo Tsu/2 both made it just to name a couple, I'm pretty satisfied. Well done.
* The fact that the "See Also" section usually just includes another title from the same series is a bit boring. Metal Slug under Metal Slug 3 doesn't feel like an exciting, alternate choice. This would require more work, obviously, but I think I would have enjoyed something more like Metal Slug 3 - Also Recommended in this series: Metal Slug - See Also Alien Hominid (or whatever).
* Not sure if this has been pointed out yet, but the Morrowind write-up has the text from Freedom Fighters, in my PDF at least.
So I bought the book from Amazon last week and the pages are all wavy and there is a pretty big crease in the middle of the book when its closed. Like, it always opens to one spot.
I thought it was how Amazon shipped it so I ordered a replacement and it was the same exact way.
Anyone else's book like that? Is it a defect in the printing?