This is a good opportunity to better define what people mean by a "leftist". Do we mean like, legit Latin America leftists, or do people just mean Bernie Sanders?
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Hillary Clinton is ready to join the resistance
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This is a good opportunity to better define what people mean by a "leftist". Do we mean like, legit Latin America leftists, or do people just mean Bernie Sanders?
I've see several people in this thread say her being involved will hurt the movement more than help it. They might well be wrong, but you seem to have overlooked that logic.
That sentiment probably plays a part of it for a number of people and that's a bad thing. Much like it's a bad thing that the sentiment that people to the left are idiots and thus should be ignored out of hand is probably driving some of the knee jerk defenses. That's a bad thing too.
I'm seeing people that hate/blame Hillary for the current situation telling her to fuck off even though all she's doing is raising money for grassroots efforts, and then people rightfully saying how fucking stupid that is. Because it is fucking stupid. She's not running for President and she's not going to be the face of the party. She's literally providing the funds to allow people like Sanders to do what they do best
She's raising money. That's it
EatinOlives
Member
Agreed. Disagree with her policies, her candidacy, the way she ran the campaign as much as you want. That's fine. You can even have negative feelings toward her for losing the election to Trump and in a way "getting us unto this mess" (I don't really agree with that notion, but that's OK, they can cope with the loss in that way if they wish). But there has to be a sanity check here. Some crazies are going so far as to not wanting her in any capacity whatsoever, even if she's literally doing nothing but raising money (which is what she's doing).
It's at this point that it's pretty clear, for some people, the hate is personal. It has nothing to do with what she did, they hate her and her alone, and they won't be satisfied until she's shot into the sun.
Ive never heard about "alt left" until I read this thread.
Almost everyone is left if you compare it to Trump. Bernie isn't far left, at least he shouldn't be. Maybe the american policial spectrum is so far to the right even a moderate centrist (in my views) is far left in USA.
And yeah, Hillary, you can hel pwith money, but don't go public.
I will follow Bernie.
Believe it or not, he's actually made lots of impact on the left here in Norway. A lot of Norwegian leftists politicans idolizes him.
Almost everyone is left if you compare it to Trump. Bernie isn't far left, at least he shouldn't be. Maybe the american policial spectrum is so far to the right even a moderate centrist (in my views) is far left in USA.
And yeah, Hillary, you can hel pwith money, but don't go public.
I will follow Bernie.
Believe it or not, he's actually made lots of impact on the left here in Norway. A lot of Norwegian leftists politicans idolizes him.
TheGeniusArcana
Member
I like this
Autodidact
Banned
All these "progressive" men telling a woman to go away while their "progressive" icon supports candidates with "progressive" views on women's rights.
Straight white men have to run everything and everyone, don't they? Bernie Sanders gave them a chance to sow discord in a party largely governed (and rightfully so) by women and minorities, and damn if they didn't take it. From encouraging us to disregard "identity politics" (i.e., civil rights for ethnic and sexual minorities) in favor of economics (which benefit white men most) to belittling actual progressives and progressive causes, they're trying to shrink the big tent to cover only their needs.
Straight white men have to run everything and everyone, don't they? Bernie Sanders gave them a chance to sow discord in a party largely governed (and rightfully so) by women and minorities, and damn if they didn't take it. From encouraging us to disregard "identity politics" (i.e., civil rights for ethnic and sexual minorities) in favor of economics (which benefit white men most) to belittling actual progressives and progressive causes, they're trying to shrink the big tent to cover only their needs.
Vire
Member
The only one finger pointing is Hillary.
"RUSSIA! COMEY!"
I don't want to hear it... I'm devastated by the things that are happening in this country and her campaign , the DNC and herself being so fucking incompetent is a large part in why this god damn health care bill was passed today.
El_Tiguere
Member
Like she did in Haiti and Honduras?
Psychoward
Banned
It's really easy to tell who didn't read the article, especially on the first page lol.
2Smashed4U
Banned
Cool.
But we're talking American politics, so in that context that's all that matters here.
Sirpopopop
Member
As for the alt-left & far-left commentary, the #1 tell that the label fits is when someone makes the following cheeky comments:
"Define far left."
"What's alt left?"
#2. Tulsi Gabbard would be a great candidate in 2020.
#3. Bernie was CHEEAAATTTED BY THE DNC.
#4. Hillary Clinton's never done anything to help anyone ever. (Let's ignore that whole act called CHIP. Quite possibly the best Act to be passed in the last 30 years.)
#5. They get their news from The Young Turks or The Intercept.
#6. Use the phrase "neoliberal."
#7. Complain about the establishment.
#8. Think there was a meaningful difference between Keith Ellison & Tom Perez.
#9. Downplay Russian interference in the election. Generally downplay Russia fearmongering in general.
I could keep on going, but I'll stop here.
"Define far left."
"What's alt left?"
#2. Tulsi Gabbard would be a great candidate in 2020.
#3. Bernie was CHEEAAATTTED BY THE DNC.
#4. Hillary Clinton's never done anything to help anyone ever. (Let's ignore that whole act called CHIP. Quite possibly the best Act to be passed in the last 30 years.)
#5. They get their news from The Young Turks or The Intercept.
#6. Use the phrase "neoliberal."
#7. Complain about the establishment.
#8. Think there was a meaningful difference between Keith Ellison & Tom Perez.
#9. Downplay Russian interference in the election. Generally downplay Russia fearmongering in general.
I could keep on going, but I'll stop here.
gutter_trash
Banned
that is because everyone else to you is on the Right
Black Mamba
Member
Fuck this take. Fuck it hard.
The GOP in the House just voted to literally kill people. If you are an organ transplant recipient made only possible through the ACA, they just voted to kill you. These people often would find themselves paying $10k/month to survive on their meds.
But you, it's "almost the same."
The GOP is about to fast track cutting half a trillion in safety nets in addition to it.
They're trying to gut Dodd-Frank.
The Trump administration is deported hordes of people across this country, about half of them on the basis of "traffic violations." They are breaking families apart.
God this take infuriates me. it comes from a position of privilege.
For millions and millions of people across this nation, their lives are already or soon going to be adversely affected in so many awful and catastrophic ways. But yeah, it's ALMOST THE SAME.
The same woman that just said she takes full responsibility for her campaign?
Puck Beaverton
Banned
The Far Left is the same as the Far Right
Finally both sides have become the same
Finally both sides have become the same
So it isn't the people passing these bills that are at fault?
Clearly you must get angry at others.
VendettaRed07
Member
Sure, but that's left here. We aren't Europe. So there isn't much point in arguing it here.
I mean if you talk to conservatives many don't see really much day light between her and people on the far left. Literally no republicans see her as a centrist or center right for that matter
Skyline Owl
Neo Member
Well this thread is going down it's predictable path, jesus fucking christ.
Glad she's back. We need another adult in the car to save us from from Thelma and Louise'ing ourselves off this cliff. #stillwithher
(I know she is just fundraising behind the scenes)
Glad she's back. We need another adult in the car to save us from from Thelma and Louise'ing ourselves off this cliff. #stillwithher
(I know she is just fundraising behind the scenes)
You're totally right people are doing that. If you read the post you quoted you'll see that I acknowledged that.
She has not proven herself to be a credit to the cause. In fact it seems like she can only hurt it at this point, regardless of how many loyalists on this board and beyond are ready to let her try and fail for a third time. I have nothing personal against her, but I think it's time to let others step up to lead the future of the party. Even if her reputation doesn't deserve the flak that it gets or the reaction that a huge chunk of the country has to her, I don't think her face among the vocal leaders of the party is going to be an asset. I say this as someone who voted for her.
For those of you who take issue with our problems with Clinton(claiming we are the problem with uniting the party) and then turn around and tear into Bernie Sanders any chance you get are pretty hypocritical.
Anyways, if she wants to help fundraise that's fine, but I don't think giving her the spotlight is going to help us. Even her appearance the other day helped fuel the opposition and their peabrained supporters.
Ooh, a DNC complaint too. Tell me, what did the DNC do that has garnered your outrage? Be specific. Bonus points for accurately describing the DNC's function within the larger Democratic party apparatus.
Which is why I mentioned that she isn't planning on running for office again. According to the article, she isn't planning on being the public face of anything?
M0nochromatic
Member
They endorsed her, not the other way around.
excelsiorlef
Member
In Europe a lot of Dems (including Clinton) would feel freer to support things more leftish...
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Another rational post..
EatinOlives
Member
Why would the BLM endorse someone who didn't have their back?
Did you read the article in the OP? Hell, even just the select bit in the OP?
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
2Smashed4U
Banned
Err it was blatant sarcasm my guy, lol
QuantumBro
Banned
Hey now, don't be insulting. Gary Walsh would never do something as stupid as to email government documents to his sexting addicted SO's phone in order to print them.
This is true to some extent, but it ignores the fact that there are centrists and leftists in this country. Ideologically people to her left can see her as operating based on a fundamentally different set of principles. That's valid regardless of what the average American thinks compared to the average European.
You mean the woman who took responsibility?
Nah, not even close. Far right don't exist on any plane of reality.
Psychoward
Banned
Is this sarcasm? Because lifetime progressive judges alone is huge no matter what else she would do in her 4 terms. And the fact that you had the gall to bring up healthcare when the front page of this forum is what it is today is hilarious.
Not to mention climate change, LGBT rights, closing the income disparity gap, regulations on businesses and more.
Did I just get baited?
eBay Huckster
Member
THAT
IS
LITERALLY
WHAT
SHE'S
FUCKING
DOING
jesus fucking christ do you people ever read the fucking articles or do you just enter these threads to dip your dicks in outrage sauce
seriously
Orbis Tabula
Member
Exactly.
Who is everyone else?
Bullshit. The alt right hates women, minorities and everyone who isn't them. Far left does not. I would be super far left, commie style in america.
Uninformed Hot Takes must have priority...
That was sarcasm.
Intentions don't matter much in politics. All that matters is what people think. If the net result of her participating is hurting the cause then we should be against her participation. If the net result of her participating is helping then we should be for it. This should be an argument about utility.
I would define a leftist as anyone who is comfortable with calling themselves a socialist. Most Democrats are not leftists and that is probably a good thing for them as politicians.
That makes sense since the demographics and general society of Norway are much more receptive to his ideas. Unfortunately, the US isn't like Norway
Fair enough
VendettaRed07
Member
Basically. Don't know why I even bothered talking about where she falls on the political spectrum again. It doesn't matter anymore.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
It's like the election taught millions that as long as you're loud and proud of your ignorance you'll never be wrong
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