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[Ekai]

People of Color and AA especially have been supporters of the Clinton's for decades. She's been there, in the community, since the beginning. Her work with the Children's Defense Fund was the basis of her political ideology. She has deep roots within the community that only President Obama was able to break.

Bernie has zero connections to the AA community because he's never, ever had to even try to appeal to it before. He comes from lily-white Vermont. He has probably never had to worry about tailoring his message to different demographics...and he still can't do it now.

Also, AA;s, especially southern AAs, are more conservative than white liberals. They also tend to be more pragmatic in how we should deal with issues. You add to that Bernie's rather weak stance on guns, his lack of engagement with the community, his poor handling of BLM, his refusal to understand basic intersectionality and you have a candidate who is out of touch with the views of many non-whites.

The amount of outright lies about Bernie's record in this post tho.

Minorities don't like Bernie likely because of two reasons. The first is that they are hardly familiar with him and are familiar with Clinton.Hillary Clinton has been a household name since the early 1990s. The Clinton's became very popular with minorities. But Sanders? Who the fuck is Sanders? Just some random guy from Vermont who appeared at the stage. The second is that Sanders is from Vermont which is racially homogeneous, compared to Hillary who is experienced in New York which is very diverse. Hillary knows how to campaign to minorities, Sanders has zero experience with that. It takes years of experience to know how to reach a demographic. Peope could point to Obama, but he was a community organizer...

He's a dude who has been there for a long time battling for and with all kinds of minorities. But don't let facts cloud your false talking point about Bernie.

 

[Guileless]

Where it becomes insulting and presumptuous is the idea that non-Sanders supporters are just converts in need of education, meaning only ignorance can lead someone not to support him.

What about people supporting a Republican candidate?

 

[gutter_trash]

What about people supporting a Republican candidate?

 

[captainnapalm]

I'm not quite sure you actually understand why people were up in arms over your posts, so I'll try to spell it clearly.

The problem is you attacked minorities as being ignorant and easily deceived by the "wrong" narratives, and pretty much said that straight white men are the best.

If you want to attack Hillary and her record, go right ahead.

I'm sorry you or others took it personally, but the fact of the matter is I made a quite valid point, namely that women and minorities may be getting more sidetracked by the brand of identity politics the left currently trades in than other groups, and that it might be coming at the expense of greater awareness of some of the other issues.

Other people are suggesting it's just straight ignorance on the part of minorities, that's not what I was suggesting.

 

[Nuu]

He's a dude who has been there for a long time battling for all kinds of minorities. But don't let facts cloud your false talking point about Bernie.

Again what he has done doesn't mean shit. It is about what people know about him and how they perceive him. If he can't show minorities his Civil Right energy coursing through him then that is Bernie's problem.

Sure diehard political junkies are familiar with him, but if I webt to the street and asked a black non-white anybody outside of Vermont,nobody would know who he is prior to the debates.

 

[Ekai]

Again what he has done doesn't mean shit. It is about what people know about him and how they perceive him. If he can't show minorities his Civil Right energy coursing through him then that is Bernie's problem.

Your exact words were that he has zero experience with working with/helping/fighting for minorities. That's plainly an outright lie. The dude is 110% civil rights for all walks of people. If you're going to deny your own words then this is a pointless conversation to partake in.

And before people jump on an attack on me for daring to correct the lies that people have said en mass about Bernie in this topic: I'll still vote for Hiliary if she does get the nomination. Better her than a Republican. That also said Bernie is frankly the candidate for me. His focus on the income-inequality gap (which Hiliary is happy to let widen by all accounts), institutional racism, sexism, connection with the lgbt community, etc. etc. etc. and other issues tell me he knows what really matters here.

 

[Cagey]

What about people supporting a Republican candidate?

The same.

 

[Nuu]

Your exact words were that he has zero experience with working with/helping/fighting for minorities. That's plainly an outright lie. The dude is 110% civil rights for all walks of people. If you're going to deny your own words then this is a pointless conversation to partake in.

There is a difference between working with minorities and campaigning to them.

 

[Days like these...]

I will but it won't be feigning, thanks. I am sorry we can't all be as smart as white men.

I never used the word smart or ignorant. That was all you. Stay in your feelings.

 

[sphagnum]

I'm sorry you or others took it personally, but the fact of the matter is I made a quite valid point, namely that women and minorities may be getting more sidetracked by the brand of identity politics the left currently trades in than other groups, and that it might be coming at the expense of greater awareness of some of the other issues.

Other people are suggesting it's just straight ignorance on the part of minorities, that's not what I was suggesting.

You said you're not American so I don't think you understand the nature of the situation in the US. As a socialist, I agree that economics are extremely important and that as long as capitalism exists there will still be poverty and class struggle. But even if you got rid of capitalism, the ingrained bigotries and disparities that minorities and women face would continue to exist, unless these matters are addressed as well. Economic oppression is not the sole form of oppression - you have to be intersectional about it and understand that for some populations there are more direct, immediate concerns. These things are intertwined. The false dichotomy between "real socialist focus on economics" and "liberal focus on identity politics" is not one that has to be the case; all of these things can be battled at once. Obviously it's more difficult because there are swathes of the country who do not want to do anything to help non-white-guys (see how everyone used to support government action until it started benefiting black people) but demographics are changing and so that will eventually fall to the wayside, I think. But just focusing on economics isn't enough anymore. Sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. can and historically still have existed in non-capitalist systems because the idea of attacking the base to change the superstructure was held up as the thing of primary importance to such a degree that other things were ignored.

So we can agree that as long as the current system holds, black people, for example, will continue to be stuck at the bottom of the rung in terms of mobility. But right now, black voters may understand that and yet still care more about the fact that they don't want to get murdered by police just for existing. Many of us who support Bernie are, whether we realize it or not, privileged individuals who don't have to worry about certain forms of oppression being directed against us, so we focus on the one particular issue that does affect us directly - economics. But for other people, you have to factor in more than just pure economics. I think that Bernie's solutions would be better for everyone, not just white guys like me, but it's completely logical that many non-white-guy voters would be fearful that he cant get elected and want to insure that someone who at least isn't a Republican will still get in office to protect against a reactionary tide.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

But all the information is out there. There's no excuse for being uninformed.

I just wonder what the reason for this discrepancy could be, and I think back to some of the political discussions I've had with some people, where they seem more interested in seeing issues in racial or feminist terms - and the accompanying social narratives that creates - than in purely political or economic terms - where the heart of the problem actually lies.

If you agree that's where the problem lies, I can't see how there is any other person to vote for. Sanders might turn out to be an establishment figure himself, and probably the job will own him, like it did Obama and all other presidents, but there's at least a chance he could push for actual reform where it is really needed. There's no chance of that with Clinton.

That's not true. He doesn't really have an effective nationwide ground game. And most people ignore the election during the primaries. We haven't had one primary. There is a ton of excuse to be uninformed.

You have to be empathetic to those who are not following it closely. People with 9-5's don't have time to care. People with 2 jobs? The people who Sanders is trying to reach have a lot of reason to be uninformed. His platform falls apart if poor people are not uninformed. $15 an hour is bullshit for a lot of people and for a ton, it's a god send. You have a luxury to have enough time to research this. A lot of people are working their ass off for nuggets and going home to their kids making dinner or some family watching their kids and they have enough energy to watch some TV and fall asleep. They are exhausted to work so hard for so little.

Have you really paid attention to what Bernie is saying? There seems to be a disconnect. Poor isn't some status spell. It's fucking horrible.

/former welfare recipient.

Have you ever rode the bus for an hour because you are too fuckin broke to have a car? 8 hours to sleep, 8 hours to work, leaves you 8 hours. 2 hours for travel down to six. Food outside of work, prep, eating it. Small estimate is 1 hour for each meal. Down to 4. Prep for work, maybe an hour, down to 3. Your day evaporates when you are poor. Go drop off and pick up your kids. ? How much time do you have left.

Bernie made a great statement a few weeks ago about how expensive it is to be poor. It also saps all time and energy. You don't have luxuries, like checking scores and news articles. They stop you from checking your phone, the worse the job is. I'm well off and using my phone about 5 hours a day. Poor people? Naw, bruh.

Edit: Rallies? Naw, got groceries and shit to do.

 

[silvermember]

ALL I am saying is that MANY latinos are not informed so they will back the default candidate if you want to feel some type of way about that. Its on you.

You seem desperate trying to rationalize why minorities don't vote for someone you like. It goes in hand with the problem that minorities should be seen not heard.

This is one of the problems the fringe Bernie Supporters fail to get. Just because minorities do not blindly support your candidate does not make them low informed voters. It just means they don't support him. I don't support him because i know he can never win nor by some slim chance he does win, he won't get anything done. Congress still exist.

The sad thing is, assuming bernie was to win, his supporters will end up angrier than the people who thought Obama could wave a wand and end gridlock in Washington DC.

 

[Nuu]

To be fair, I recall a lot of Hillary supporters angry at minorities supporting Obama in 2008 because they thought they were only doing so because he was black rather than his issues.

 

[Pizoxuat]

Ugh. I support Sanders, moreso after BLM woke him up and showed him that he can't just talk economics all day, every day. To address inequality in this country you must address racism and sexism as issues as well. But good lord I detest his online fanclub just as much as I detested the Hillary maniacs back when she ran against Obama. Same kind of frenzied deluge of insults and nonsense as back then.

And I will vote for Hillary when/if she wins the primary. I'm a woman with a daughter, I ain't got the privilege of pretending that a Republican appointing one or two Supreme Court Justices would be anything less than a total disaster.

 

[Days like these...]

I'm a Latino and I know latinos are generally speaking not as well informed as whites when it comes to politics. There are studies/statistics that show this. Why some of you are taking issue with this statement I don't know. No where did I say EVERYONE is uninformed and thats why Hillary has more support. Certainly there exist some like hillbert who will back the perceived 'safe bet'

 

[Malyse]

What does it say that straight white males have their heads seemingly screwed on straighter than the rest? Maybe the others are falling for false and pervasive social narratives that create false perceptions of reality, while the rest are actually more in touch with reality and able to see the real problems more clearly?

I don't know but it's an interesting phenomenon. I would have expected support for Sanders to be at least as prevalent amongst minorities and women, if not more so. I know Bill Clinton was popular with black people and that's probably extending to Hillary, but I would have thought they would have mostly seen through the whole Clinton thing by now. And I know Hillary is a woman, but so what when she's so clearly an establishment figure.

Happy Martin Luther King Jr. Day, everyone!

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

To be fair, I recall a lot of Hillary supporters angry at minorities supporting Obama in 2008 because they thought they were only doing so because he was black rather than his issues.

And it was bullshit then. Nobody ever questioned people voting for white politicians due to their race. Yet people constantly pick white people because of their skin. Tailor, car dealer, banker, doctor, stock broker. Hell, you have people breaking it down into specific white people. I laughed at Curb Your Enthusiasm for talking about not getting a Jewish lawyer. It resonates.

And, I specifically moved away from Hillary when I saw that bullshit.

 

[teruterubozu]

I'm a Latino and I know latinos are generally speaking not as well informed as whites when it comes to politics. Why some of you are taking issue with this statement I don't know.

Because Bernie supporters are supposed to be white/entitled/privileged/young/nothing-to-lose/ignorant-of-the Supreme-Court/etc.

 

[captainnapalm]

You said you're not American so I don't think you understand the nature of the situation in the US. As a socialist, I agree that economics are extremely important and that as long as capitalism exists there will still be poverty and class struggle. But even if you got rid of capitalism, the ingrained bigotries and disparities that minorities and women face would continue to exist, unless these matters are addressed as well. Economic oppression is not the sole form of oppression - you have to be intersectional about it and understand that for some populations there are more direct, immediate concerns. These things are intertwined. The false dichotomy between "real socialist focus on economics" and "liberal focus on identity politics" is not one that has to be the case; all of these things can be battled at once. Obviously it's more difficult because there are swathes of the country who do not want to do anything to help non-white-guys (see how everyone used to support government action until it started benefiting black people) but demographics are changing and so that will eventually fall to the wayside, I think. But just focusing on economics isn't enough anymore. Sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. can and historically still have existed in non-capitalist systems because the idea of attacking the base to change the superstructure was held up as the thing of primary importance to such a degree that other things were ignored.

So we can agree that as long as the current system holds, black people, for example, will continue to be stuck at the bottom of the rung in terms of mobility. But right now, black voters may understand that and yet still care more about the fact that they don't want to get murdered by police just for existing. Many of us who support Bernie are, whether we realize it or not, privileged individuals who don't have to worry about certain forms of oppression being directed against us, so we focus on the one particular issue that does affect us directly - economics. But for other people, you have to factor in more than just pure economics. I think that Bernie's solutions would be better for everyone, not just white guys like me, but it's completely logical that many non-white-guy voters would be fearful that he cant get elected and want to insure that someone who at least isn't a Republican will still get in office to protect against a reactionary tide.

Well, I see your point. What you'res saying is if you end up backing a losing horse, and the guy on the other side gets in, it could be way worse for you. So you might be less likely to take risks.

I do get that, and I think it's sad that people are put in a position where they have to think like this. I'm kind an extreme idealist, and generally don't have much time for pragmatism, but I can see why my position perhaps affords that a bit more than others.

 

[facelike]

There is a difference between working with minorities and campaigning to them.

I find that, being a "minority", that I get to speak for my whole race (which is Black BTW). I like Sanders and I've always viewed Clinton as a politician. A couple friends of mine all like Sanders because of his history and consistency.

I think Sanders would have more name recognition if he was married to an ex president also.

Clinton is riding on popularity and familiarity, Sanders is riding on his history and agenda. As Sanders does more to get his message out, I'm sure those minorities will support him.

I find more and more Sanders supporters every day. Anecdotally, I seen all ages, both sexes, conservative and liberal, who just like Sanders more. The younger generation I also noticed are chomping at the bit to vote and they are looking at Sanders. I think if Sanders wins one or both of the first Primary states, this this whole Dem race will be flipped.

 

[kinggroin]

Black folk please chime in on why Bernie isn't popular with you?

 

[The Lamonster]

Ugh. I support Sanders, moreso after BLM woke him up and showed him that he can't just talk economics all day, every day. To address inequality in this country you must address racism and sexism as issues as well. But good lord I detest his online fanclub just as much as I detested the Hillary maniacs back when she ran against Obama. Same kind of frenzied deluge of insults and nonsense as back then.

And I will vote for Hillary when/if she wins the primary. I'm a woman with a daughter, I ain't got the privilege of pretending that a Republican appointing one or two Supreme Court Justices would be anything less than a total disaster.

I feel exactly the same as you (except I'm a man with a daughter).

I align politically with Sanders, but I am sick of him attempting to tie everything back to his one or two main talking points. I also don't feel that he's very presidential. But of course, I'll be giving the democrat my vote in the general election no matter who it is. I don't dislike Clinton at all.

I do think Sanders' campaign team needs to make an effort to energize their supporters to vote for Clinton in the general election, because right now they are so hateful toward her. It's increasingly dangerous and only helps the republicans.

 

[damisa]

I'm a Latino and I know latinos are generally speaking not as well informed as whites when it comes to politics. Why some of you are taking issue with this statement I don't know.

White people are supporting Hilary though, it's mostly young white people who support Bernie, and it's complete BS to say the young follow politics more than older people. It's really easy to support an idealist when you haven't lived through years of republican crap

 

[Angelus Errare]

And it was bullshit then. Nobody ever questioned people voting for white politicians due to their race. Yet people constantly pick white people because of their skin. Tailor, car dealer, banker, doctor, stock broker. Hell, you have people breaking it down into specific white people. I laughed at Curb Your Enthusiasm for talking about not getting a Jewish lawyer. It resonates.

And, I specifically moved away from Hillary when I saw that bullshit.

Because white people are seen as individuals not a monolithic hivemind entity.

America in a nutshell.

 

[Quixzlizx]

I'm sorry you or others took it personally, but the fact of the matter is I made a quite valid point, namely that women and minorities may be getting more sidetracked by the brand of identity politics the left currently trades in than other groups, and that it might be coming at the expense of greater awareness of some of the other issues.

Other people are suggesting it's just straight ignorance on the part of minorities, that's not what I was suggesting.

Could you cite some statistical studies to prove you're making a valid point?

You're also self-admittedly not even an American, so how would you even have unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence outside of the internet?

Your posts also tend to be very anti-American (and pro-Russian) when it comes to foreign policy, so perhaps American voters shouldn't necessarily be taking your points regarding American political candidates into consideration, anyway.

 

[Pizoxuat]

I feel exactly the same as you (except I'm a man with a daughter).

I align politically with Sanders, but I am sick of him attempting to tie everything back to his one or two main talking points. I also don't feel that he's very presidential. But of course, I'll be giving the democrat my vote in the general election no matter who it is. I don't dislike Clinton at all.

I do think Sanders' campaign team needs to make an effort to energize their supporters to vote for Clinton in the general election, because right now they are so hateful toward her. It's increasingly dangerous and only helps the republicans.

Your last point makes me question just how much his most vocal supporters are even listening to him, since he's made a point of not going negative because he doesn't want whoever wins the primary to go into the general damaged. Because he knows that Hillary (or O'Malley, to be fair) are a far better option than anything the Republicans got going on.

 

[adamsappel]

Sanders lack of support with minorities is a myth.

IThere are a couple of polls where Sanders is polling at 30s with hispanics. There are also polls where Sanders is above 20% with black people, which is a stronger number than what Clinton herself did in 2008 (17%). Sanders is also CRUSHING Hillary with women under 45. So yeah, this idea that Sanders only has appeal with sweatty armpit, cishet white redditors is just that, a myth.

He has support, just not enough. Which doesnt undermine the voices of those minorities who actually like Sanders message.

You're boasting about better numbers with black people compared to Clinton in 2008? Come on, dude. Who was the opponent then? And aren't Sanders' under-45 numbers actually skewed by 25-and-under? I recall something in PoliGAF about that.

And what are all the Berniestans to do if/when Bernie loses the primary and starts stumping for Hillary? Do they not think that is going to happen, or is he going to be labeled a sell-out?

 

[Hilbert]

I'm a Latino and I know latinos are generally speaking not as well informed as whites when it comes to politics. There are studies/statistics that show this. Why some of you are taking issue with this statement I don't know. No where did I say EVERYONE is uninformed and thats why Hillary has more support. Certainly there exist some like hillbert who will back the perceived 'safe bet'

I took issue with it because it is bullshit and insulting to boot.

Curious to know where I said I backed her because she was the safe bet.

 

[EatinOlives]

I'm a Latino and I know latinos are generally speaking not as well informed as whites when it comes to politics. Why some of you are taking issue with this statement I don't know.

Because being a minority ally doesn't involve telling people that whites are the ones with their heads screwed right, and that if you don't like Sanders you're simply not informed. Minorities don't want "allies" that are condescending and lecture them on "what's best for you". Allies join a cause, not hijack it and try to call the shots.

It's not hard to see why taking a "you people" attitude doesn't go over well. You can very easily tell who has never actually tried being an ally prior to this election due to the staggering amount of tone-deaf shit that spews out of them.

To be fair, I recall a lot of Hillary supporters angry at minorities supporting Obama in 2008 because they thought they were only doing so because he was black rather than his issues.

And I very much hope those people have done some growing up since then. That attitude is just flat-out childish.

 

[The Lamonster]

Your last point makes me question just how much his most vocal supporters are even listening to him, since he's made a point of not going negative because he doesn't want whoever wins the primary to go into the general damaged. Because he knows that Hillary (or O'Malley, to be fair) are a far better option than anything the Republicans got going on.

Based on what my friends are sharing on social media, they seem to think she's just as bad as any of the republicans, and that is embarrassingly incorrect.

 

[Nuu]

Ugh. I support Sanders, moreso after BLM woke him up and showed him that he can't just talk economics all day, every day. To address inequality in this country you must address racism and sexism as issues as well. But good lord I detest his online fanclub just as much as I detested the Hillary maniacs back when she ran against Obama. Same kind of frenzied deluge of insults and nonsense as back then.

And I will vote for Hillary when/if she wins the primary. I'm a woman with a daughter, I ain't got the privilege of pretending that a Republican appointing one or two Supreme Court Justices would be anything less than a total disaster.

And it was bullshit then. Nobody ever questioned people voting for white politicians due to their race. Yet people constantly pick white people because of their skin. Tailor, car dealer, banker, doctor, stock broker. Hell, you have people breaking it down into specific white people.

I feel that this is just sour second place syndrome. Hillary fans lost/were losing to Obama and got pissed. Now Sanders fans are losing to Hillary and are pissed. In reality they should be mad at their candidate for lacking ground game and appeal.

I laughed at Curb Your Enthusiasm for talking about not getting a Jewish lawyer. It resonates.

Spoiler

I GOT SWEDED!

White people are supporting Hilary though, it's mostly young white people who support Bernie, and it's complete BS to say the young follow politics more than older people. It's really easy to support an idealist when you haven't lived through years of republican crap

And some condescending trite. Young whites vote for Bernie due to living through years of Republican crap. Anyone over 21 vividly remembers the Bush years.

 

[HylianTom]

And what are all the Berniestans to do if/when Bernie loses the primary and starts stumping for Hillary? Do they not think that is going to happen, or is he going to be labeled a sell-out?

I think the vast majority are going to continue trusting him. So when he says that lining-up behind the nominee is the most prudent course of action for reaching his policy goals, most of them will understand. He knows that a Democrat winning and replacing one of the Citizens United majority would go a long way towards that major goal of reducing corporate influence.

 

[teruterubozu]

Because being a minority ally doesn't involve telling people that whites are the ones with their heads screwed right, and that if you don't like Sanders you're simply not informed. Minorities don't want "allies" that are condescending and lecture them on "what's best for you".

It's not hard to see why taking a "you people" attitude doesn't go over well. You can very easily tell who has never actually tried being an ally prior to this election due to the staggering amount of tone-deaf shit that spews out of them.

Yup, which is why that abuela shit backfired.

 

[Days like these...]

I took issue with it because it is bullshit and insulting to boot.

Curious to know where I said I backed her because she was the safe bet.

So what are you saying? Are you saying by and large latinos are as informed as whites and we simply prefer Hillary's positions over Bernie's or we just want to back the safer bet? I disagree.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Every side have their radical fanbases but I must say the radical segment of Bernie Sander's supporters are the most obnoxious I've seen so far.

Every youtube video I see of the Daily Show or the Late Show they show up and plaster the comment sections with their insults, even if the video has nothing to do with Bernie Sanders...

...Or maybe it's because of it?

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Hillary will make for a fine candidate as she will do a pretty good job of representing democratic ideals.

She will do her best to avoid the erosion of social programs.
She will continue to fight for LGBT rights.
She won't sit there on TV and tell everyone that black people are to blame for their own misfortunes. And she won't sit there and say that a 12 yr old probably deserved to get shot dead in the streets.
She will also work to make sure green energy is our future.

And for that, I can support her. I have some worries about foreign policy and general cronyism, but we can work on that.

 

[captainnapalm]

Could you cite some statistical studies to prove you're making a valid point?

You're also self-admittedly not even an American, so how would you even have unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence outside of the internet?

Your posts also tend to be very anti-American (and pro-Russian) when it comes to foreign policy, so perhaps American voters shouldn't necessarily be taking your points regarding American political candidates into consideration, anyway.

I said I thought it was a valid point, not that it was a fact. It was one possible explanation for the discrepancy, and it turns out there might actually be some solid historical context to support it.

And fair enough, I'm not American. But like anyone who wants to be clued up on the world, American politics concerns me - indirectly and oftentimes directly too. Unlike a lot of people, I'm observant enough to realize we're still living in the Age of Empire.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'm sorry you or others took it personally, but the fact of the matter is I made a quite valid point, namely that women and minorities may be getting more sidetracked by the brand of identity politics the left currently trades in than other groups, and that it might be coming at the expense of greater awareness of some of the other issues.

Other people are suggesting it's just straight ignorance on the part of minorities, that's not what I was suggesting.

Those issues are just as important. That's what you don't get.

 

[Guileless]

The false dichotomy between "real socialist focus on economics" and "liberal focus on identity politics" is not one that has to be the case; all of these things can be battled at once.

Maybe theoretically, but that has definitely never happened before, and this thread is full of people talking themselves into nominating the wife of the man who signed NAFTA and who herself voted for the Iraq War.

 

[Vice]

Sanders lack of support with minorities is a myth.

IThere are a couple of polls where Sanders is polling at 30s with hispanics. There are also polls where Sanders is above 20% with black people, which is a stronger number than what Clinton herself did in 2008 (17%). Sanders is also CRUSHING Hillary with women under 45. So yeah, this idea that Sanders only has appeal with sweatty armpit, cishet white redditors is just that, a myth.

He has support, just not enough. Which doesnt undermine the voices of those minorities who actually like Sanders message.

So, he has lower numbers than Hillary does at the moment. Which means he lacks support with minorities compared to her. And, in the vast majority of polls Sanders is losing compared to Hillary in appeals to minorities and women.

Like, it's cool that he has somewhat strong support among Latinos and women under 45, but he's not doing as well in the blocks that get out and vote.

He isn't very appealing to minorities for a lot of reasons. He, and many of his supporters, fail to acknowledge that minorities are often socially, and to a degree fiscally, pretty conservative compared to his vocal base. The working-class does not want to pay more taxes, especially those who are working to support a family on their own -- even if it means they'll get cheaper healthcare. The tough on crime stance is popular with a large amount of older minorities and a decent amount of younger ones as well -- even if the results aren't as good as people thought they would be.
And, invoking that he cares about Civil Rights isn't going to convince people. Especially since he's from a state where less than 1% of the population is made up of minorities. That isn't going to help convince people when you're campaigning against someone who has had a very visible and well-known presence working with minorities, rather than for them, and is from an area filled with racial diversity.

He lacks support with minorities, it's the truth.

 

[Quixzlizx]

I said I thought it was a valid point, not that it was a fact. It was one possible explanation for the discrepancy, and it turns out there might actually be some solid historical context to support it.

And fair enough, I'm not American. But like anyone who wants to be clued up on the world, American politics concerns me - indirectly and oftentimes directly too. Unlike a lot of people, I'm observant enough to realize we're still living in the Age of Empire.

I wasn't claiming that you were uninformed about American foreign policy, I was saying that maybe you have your/your nation's/your ideology's best interests in mind rather than the interests of American citizens.

Which is fair play, but maybe Americans shouldn't be making their voting choices based on your recommendations, in that case.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

"He marched with MLK!" is now a meme thanks to his ignorant supporters who didn't want to engage with anyone trying to talk to them about race issues right now.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I said I thought it was a valid point, not that it was a fact. It was one possible explanation for the discrepancy, and it turns out there might actually be some solid historical context to support it.

And fair enough, I'm not American. But like anyone who wants to be clued up on the world, American politics concerns me - indirectly and oftentimes directly too. Unlike a lot of people, I'm observant enough to realize we're still living in the Age of Empire.

You're gonna need a higher horse to step out of that hole you insist on continuing to dig.

Your argument fails because you think only what you and "white males who support Bernie" care about is important and that everything else is just meaningless identity issues that don't count. Those issues are extremely important and talking down to those who care about them makes you out to be an ass.

 

[captainnapalm]

I wasn't claiming that you were uninformed about American foreign policy, I was saying that maybe you have your/your nation's/your ideology's best interests in mind rather than the interests of American citizens.

Which is fair play, but maybe Americans shouldn't be making their voting choices based on your recommendations, in that case.

Well I tend to think I have ordinary people's best interests at heart - wherever they may be on the planet - much more so than the political and corporate elites who screw us all over.

I'm not Anti-American, I'm anti the people who run things. At a high enough level, by the way, American doesn't even mean anything. Their companies are multi-national, so is their wealth, which they probably keep offshore anyway. Those guys are your enemies, not me.

 

[Frozenprince]

That's not true. He doesn't really have an effective nationwide ground game. And most people ignore the election during the primaries. We haven't had one primary. There is a ton of excuse to be uninformed.

You have to be empathetic to those who are not following it closely. People with 9-5's don't have time to care. People with 2 jobs? The people who Sanders is trying to reach have a lot of reason to be uninformed. His platform falls apart if poor people are not uninformed. $15 an hour is bullshit for a lot of people and for a ton, it's a god send. You have a luxury to have enough time to research this. A lot of people are working their ass off for nuggets and going home to their kids making dinner or some family watching their kids and they have enough energy to watch some TV and fall asleep. They are exhausted to work so hard for so little.

Have you really paid attention to what Bernie is saying? There seems to be a disconnect. Poor isn't some status spell. It's fucking horrible.

/former welfare recipient.

Have you ever rode the bus for an hour because you are too fuckin broke to have a car? 8 hours to sleep, 8 hours to work, leaves you 8 hours. 2 hours for travel down to six. Food outside of work, prep, eating it. Small estimate is 1 hour for each meal. Down to 4. Prep for work, maybe an hour, down to 3. Your day evaporates when you are poor. Go drop off and pick up your kids. ? How much time do you have left.

Bernie made a great statement a few weeks ago about how expensive it is to be poor. It also saps all time and energy. You don't have luxuries, like checking scores and news articles. They stop you from checking your phone, the worse the job is. I'm well off and using my phone about 5 hours a day. Poor people? Naw, bruh.

Edit: Rallies? Naw, got groceries and shit to do.

Best post i'v read on GAF in years.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Best post i'v read on GAF in years.

no this is:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=192135128&postcount=200

"less than sensitive" is putting it kindly.

Pack of slavering assholes, yelling at black people how Bernie marched with MLK like it was some kind of trap card to get them to shut up about Black Lives Matter. Furious at the temerity of these Negroes demanding to have their issues treated with a modicum of respect by those running for the Democratic candidacy. Hearing "Earn Our Vote" as speaking out of turn. Expecting the black vote to fall in lockstep behind their candidate because HEY HE MARCHED WITH KING YOU KNOW and frankly, it's better to just vote how you're told because we know what's best for you. Mad because rallies about ye olde economy were occasionally interrupted by black ladies saying hey wouldn't it be nice if we stopped getting murdered in the street for a change?

Yeah, that so-called "meme" was a tidal wave of asshattery in 2015 directed at anyone with the gall to push back on Sanders' tone deaf insistence on pivoting to the economy whenever he was challenged on racial issues in America. Hell, Reddit was one of the better places to get a measured response from Sanders supporters. It was Shithead Central in here for ages, and that's just a small taste of the vitriol I saw directed by his supporters at BLM in general.

And the hilarious thing is that it's still happening.

I have no real beef with Sanders other than that he's unelectable, but as far as the "you gonna feel the Bern? or vote for TRUMP/HILLARY" brigade? Launch the lot into the sun and call it a day

 

[TheOohChild]

I don't support Sanders, because one of his supporters irritated me on Twitter 5 months ago

/s

 

[Voysa Reezun]

The poster andthebeatgoeson nailed it.

The state has systematically destroyed support systems for poor people since the failure of the Great Society. Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, etc., have all labeled those systems socialist or presented them as being bogged down by druggies or fraudsters (mostly of black and brown skin, too).

The erosion of those systems has led to the current state where the working poor have just enough skin in the system that they choose to work two jobs rather than abandon the system and have the time to participate in rallies, but not enough skin in the system to have anything but an essentially subsistence lifestyle.

On that note, assuming that the working poor even get the chance to vote, they'll vote for the brand that generally seems to be for them, and they'll vote for the biggest names in that brand. This is why Bill Clinton, for example, is parroted as a great president for black folks in America; he played the sax on Arsenio, a popular show that the working poor would have seen him on, and some people heard Toni Morrison call him our "first black president" out of context and go with it. Does it matter that Clinton's actual policies only further harmed black America by doubling down on racist law enforcement policies or the elimination of social safety nets for the working (or unemployed) poor? No, and who the fuck has time to research it when you're going from your bottling plant job to your other job in the kitchen at McDonald's five or six days a week?

 

[captainnapalm]

You're gonna need a higher horse to step out of that hole you insist on continuing to dig.

Your argument fails because you think only what you and "white males who support Bernie" care about is important and that everything else is just meaningless identity issues that don't count. Those issues are extremely important and talking down to those who care about them makes you out to be an ass.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be concerned over minority issues, but how much do you think these politicians really care about this stuff, and how much do they use it to obscure what they really get up to.

And is it really as important as the systems of power and control that cause children to get blown to bits in the third world?

Aside from that, I firmly believe if you deal with the problem at the root, everything will get better - including issues that affect women and minorities.

Best post i'v read on GAF in years.

I also appreciated that post but didn't really have anything to add.

 

[Voysa Reezun]

They're the same systems of power and control, so I don't believe that it matters how they are attacked. For many people, the easier-to-grasp point of attack will be domestic over foreign in terms of policy.

"Let's focus on how the U.S. federal government, either directly or via proxy states, uses racist policies in the second- and third-world to kill brown and black people and to preserve economic power for a few Western and mostly-white elites" isn't going to reach a large part of our voting public.

"Let's focus on how the U.S. federal government, either directly or via proxy local law enforcement/state and local governments, uses racist policies in the inner-city ghettoes and barrios to kill brown and black people and to preserve economic power for a few Western and mostly-white elites," on the other hand, will get you much farther with the typical voter here.