Hillary destroying Bernie among minorities. women, age 50+ in New NBC/WSJ Poll
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QuiteWhittle
Member
Yeah, being a man would completely change her political career to the point that it's not worth speculating on.
If you want someone with similar views look no further than Biden, except he's even more responsible for the drug war and mass incarceration and even more connected to the big banks and corporations.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Bernie, if anything, is revving up the future. The youth are the future voters and those future 50+ year olds. Whatever he does should resonate into the future.
A younger Bernie protege with Obama's charisma will be perfect post Hillary presidency.
A younger Bernie protege with Obama's charisma will be perfect post Hillary presidency.
HarryKS
Member
Brah...
Just about every poll of voters and discussion with media after every debate has said Hillary has won them.
User 463088
Banned
People of Color and AA especially have been supporters of the Clinton's for decades. She's been there, in the community, since the beginning. Her work with the Children's Defense Fund was the basis of her political ideology. She has deep roots within the community that only President Obama was able to break.
Bernie has zero connections to the AA community because he's never, ever had to even try to appeal to it before. He comes from lily-white Vermont. He has probably never had to worry about tailoring his message to different demographics...and he still can't do it now.
Also, AA;s, especially southern AAs, are more conservative than white liberals. They also tend to be more pragmatic in how we should deal with issues. You add to that Bernie's rather weak stance on guns, his lack of engagement with the community, his poor handling of BLM, his refusal to understand basic intersectionality and you have a candidate who is out of touch with the views of many non-whites.
He said "she won every single debate."
I'm a bernie guy and a minority. Will vote for whoever dem nominmee is though. But I will say I went to a Bernie event that was a bbq and I found it a bit concerning when I was the only minority there lol.
Coffee Dog
Banned
People do not look at voting records when they decide to support politicians. Bernie's and Hilary's policy actions before they entered the race are almost entirely irrelevant.
For a large part of the country, they didn't know Bernie before the election. They know Hilary. Bernie had a chance to make a good first impression, and he blew it, so people would rather take the familiar.
I thought Obama was a fresh breath of air to be honest.
4 years of Bush Sr.
Then 8 years of Bill Clinton.
Then 8 years of George W. Bush.
And now another 4-8 years with Hillary Clinton?
I'm not a fan of the white house being run by two families.
But I'll still vote for Hillary over Trump, that's for sure.
4 years of Bush Sr.
Then 8 years of Bill Clinton.
Then 8 years of George W. Bush.
And now another 4-8 years with Hillary Clinton?
I'm not a fan of the white house being run by two families.
But I'll still vote for Hillary over Trump, that's for sure.
Can we stop referring to each other as 'stans', we're really just fishing to insult each other with this stuff.
Basically, this. Add to it Bernie's constant shitting on any achievement of President Obama and calling him naive when dealing with the GOP, well there you go.
Hillary was the legacy candidate. This is Bernie's to take if he can take it.
how are minorities not offended by hillarys awful pandering to them like http://www.npr.org/2015/12/26/461116160/-memeoftheweek-hillary-clinton-not-quite-an-abuela
this is a good article
http://designislaw.tumblr.com/post/136734488725/to-hell-with-the-establishment-left
this is a good article
http://designislaw.tumblr.com/post/136734488725/to-hell-with-the-establishment-left
She's another bought-and-paid-for corporatist. Why people here so gleefully report on her "destroying" the one person in the election who actually sincerely supports reforming by far the most fundamentally and singularly destructive thing in politics and this country in general is both confounding and deeply disturbing.
But ohh, Hilldawg's record on women's rights etc. What a compelling argument, because lord knows such an anti-progressive like Sanders would set that movement back by decades.
If it's any consolation, Bill and Hillary are not related.
Mushroomer25
Member
Yeah, I anticipate that will be Bernie's true legacy. This campaign has lit a fire amongst a generation of voters, and one that perspective candidates will draw upon every four years. Slowly as that young base becomes the majority, you could have a candidate like Sanders take a national.
It just ain't happening in 2016.
UltimaPooh
Member
What constant shitting?
I would say Obama has been Naive at times when it comes to working the GOP.
People must not realize already... but Millenials and Gen X are the majority now.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
And how did Clinton repay the minority vote? By pushing for the Violent Crime Bill which led to mass incarceration of minorities and dismantling guaranteed welfare that stood for 60 years, which you guessed it, mostly affected poor minorities.
http://www.npr.org/2014/09/12/347736999/20-years-later-major-crime-bill-viewed-as-terrible-mistake
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/08/23/u...elfare-states-in-new-role.html?pagewanted=all
I have no idea why Bill Clinton is held up like a saint to some of you young guys.
Again, can anyone explain the huge difference with focus groups that overwhelmingly gave the victory to Sanders? The people (not the media guys that are likely millionaires and likely have a different set of priorities than the average american) that actually watched the debate had a different opinion from the people that answered to the polls and just went by what they read on the paper the day after. This is corroborated by a poll that differentiated between people that said they watched the entire debate versus parts of it or none at all.
Seems to me that this shows that having the debates on days where no one will watch them is surely an advantage for Clinton.
How? The number of people who know the "abuela" stunt happened might be 0.01% of the primary voting electorate.
A lot of the happenings like this have no meaningful penetration into voter awareness but the more hardcore among political Internet denizens lose perspective on that since it pops up in their discussion circles and becomes the biggest news story of the minute.
theignoramus
Member
Apparently you arent alone. Sanders polled around 8 points higher than Hillary in the latest head to head with Trump. I imagine shed do even worse if Marco Rubio came out with the GOP nom.
QuiteWhittle
Member
Hey, at least Bill admitted it was terrible mistake and apologized for it. Has Sanders even done that for his vote?
Come on now.
Why don't you watch Trump answer which verse of the Bible is his favorite.
You can tell he's totally read the thing (his favorite book), like, a million times*.
*- He's clearly never read the fucking thing but he knows how important it is to his voting base. That certainly qualifies as 'fake as fuck'.
That's definitely who the RNC wants... But it's obvious that it's going to be Trump or Cruz at this point. So no worries there, I guess.
Coffee Dog
Banned
nobody gives a flying shit about voting records
hilary has been a recognizable face in the black community for years. sanders hasn't. That means more than policy and voting records ever will.
Um, no. Obama ran on trying to bring bipartisanship back to DC. He tried to work with the GOP like he promised and they showed the American people they had no intention on working with him. That allowed him to go it alone when he could, which he's done most deftly in his second term.
And look how much he's gotten done. How's that for naivety?
As far as Bernie shitting on Obama's accomplishments, every time he's interviewed after Obama does something major, Bernie always gives a "Yeah, but.."
Fuck that noise.
When ever I look at Obama I think, yeah but. It's just reality. He did a lot but there's a lot to be done. Some people are still living in shit, and other people want to be hey lets be optimistic? How about fuck that noise.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
I wasn't talking about Sanders, so why move goal posts?
And FYI Bill apologized for the Violent Crime Act; no apology that I know of for dismantling guaranteed welfare.
I keep seeing "too corporate."
I know she's friendlier to business than I would like. But there's one big thing that she'll still do to act on this issue.
The lynchpin of corporate money's influence in our system is Citizens United. Unless this case is overturned or a constitutional amendment is passed, there's not much that can be done to curb this influence. Anything that a President signs into law to address this issue will be challenged and knocked-down by the current Supreme Court majority under this precedent.
Given this, she's stated that she'll make the overturning of this case a litmus test for all SCOTUS nominees. That's not something small to sneer at. I won't bash anyone for backing Bernie, but if she is the nominee, anyone (in a swing state) refusing a vote for her on the grounds of being "too corporate" isn't all that serious about this oft-stated concern.
Bernie himself is keenly aware of this, which is why if and when he drops-out, he's going to endorse her. He knows how this works.
I know she's friendlier to business than I would like. But there's one big thing that she'll still do to act on this issue.
The lynchpin of corporate money's influence in our system is Citizens United. Unless this case is overturned or a constitutional amendment is passed, there's not much that can be done to curb this influence. Anything that a President signs into law to address this issue will be challenged and knocked-down by the current Supreme Court majority under this precedent.
Given this, she's stated that she'll make the overturning of this case a litmus test for all SCOTUS nominees. That's not something small to sneer at. I won't bash anyone for backing Bernie, but if she is the nominee, anyone (in a swing state) refusing a vote for her on the grounds of being "too corporate" isn't all that serious about this oft-stated concern.
Bernie himself is keenly aware of this, which is why if and when he drops-out, he's going to endorse her. He knows how this works.
UltimaPooh
Member
That's not shitting on Obama.
I've probably been a little to critical of Obama in the past mostly because a lot of his policies ended up being watered down versions of an idea that already had a lot of compromise in them and the fact that there is still plenty of work to be done.
But I would say it's that Obama was naive to keep trying to work with the GOP. And that's not really a completely negative thing to be Naive... he was a young Senator who became a young President who didn't have a ton of executive experience.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Obviously I'm not saying that Bernie has zero minority support.
I'm simply stating the very real demographics that have been driving him in the primary, and the reason why Iowa and NH are tight races.
He's no different than a lot of Progressives. After the ACA passed, plenty of Liberals are still bemoaning about the lack of a public option. Reminds me when Obama went on the Daily Show and Jon Stewart got on his case about the compromises he's had to make.
User 463088
Banned
Shitting on Obama was when he called for someone to Primary him in 2012. To primary a sitting President. And now Bernie wants to lead this party? Ya...naw. We're good.
People telling telling me what should bother me as a Hispanic person annoy me more.
Yeah, incarcerating millions of minorities: "oops..my bad" - making inroads with the black community much like Thomas Jefferson did.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Yes, Obama underestimated the GOP's hate and contempt when he became POTUS. But I don't hold it against him to be honest.
I don't think anyone knew the amount of bs the GOP were willing to pull to make his presidency difficult.
The party sucks and it should be grateful Bernie Sanders even wants to be associated with it.
Crimson_Gold
Member
And people are surprised he won't win the primary with these kind of comments?
The ACA barely passed Congress, with many democrats even voting against it. It's foolish to even think single payer could have passed. Obama did what he could.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Sounds like you feel Bernie sold out by associating with the party.
Yeah just pointing out that the minority vote does seem to be an issue. Aside for polls and other data, I've noticed a lack of minorities from my own acendotal evidence whenever I've attended Bernie events and I live in CA.
Yeah, naw, we're really not.
UltimaPooh
Member
Half true
Typical negative post coming from Hilary camp it seems.
That's fair.
No one saw how bad it was going to get.
And I think Obama has dropped his naivety over the last few years.
But calling him naive isn't shitting on him. Is a gross hyperbole.
Your Entertainer
Member
You have to look at that in context. He had low approval numbers and the Dems had just gotten cleaned out in the midterm elections. Several people had been calling for it in the party. Sanders stated that a primary challenge from a progressive Dem would be better for everyone - giving the voters more choices and potentially making Obama a stronger candidate. That's a different connotation than what you keep going on about.
For what it's worth, that also absolutely paled in comparison to what happened to Bill Clinton in 1994. Ultimately, it's a really weak reason to not want to support Sanders, and not one that isn't entirely well-informed either.
I get that and agree. I'm just talking about how it isn't a dick move for Bernie to be not happy about the things Obama is doing when plenty of Liberals express the same sentiments constantly about his compromises.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
A weak reason? You gotta be fucking joking me if you think challenging a sitting President, the first black President in a party that gets 90% of the black vote is a weak reason.
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