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[Not]

The guy saying "their kind will go extinct" is referring to the common but sadly not as true as we'd like concept that bigots are disproportionately old and that over time their ideas will die out as they do. We need look no further than the groups Hillary discusses in her speech here to see that this is by no means a universal law.

But isn't the alt-right truly a "fringe" group? Isn't the tide of generational Western culture as a whole leaning more and more progressive?

 

[Dalibor68]

The kind of melodramatic genocide they're talking about is pretty much the ideological extinction I was talking about. No real irony there, I'm directly confirming that their paranoid ramblings are actually real in at least one sense. They are losing ground with each generation and becoming increasingly marginalized. You seem to have thought that I was missing the irony by confirming their claim in my post while at the same time mocking it, but I'm not confirming it as they believe it. The ironic part to me is that they feel like they're the victims, blame Jewish people for a massive conspiracy against them (because being hate filled assholes isn't a good enough reason to fall out of popularity) and- like a bunch of precious, pants-pissing crybabies- that they even have the gall to use the term "genocide" to describe it, as if they don't even have an awareness that people like themselves committed a real genocide on Jewish people not that long ago and that it was a completely incomparable thing that what's happening to them now (or are they the types that don't even believe that it really happened?)



Come on.

That's where the misunderstanding lies then. I do get your point although as has been noted I'm not sure how much this kind of bigotry will go away by generations passing on alone. Still not finding the wording perfect though tbh because it seems like exactly the kind of language these people would use/have used in the past.

White supremacists are in fact scum and the world will be a better place without that ideology...

Again only in your weird worldview is that a bad thing to say.

This is by for the most bizarre both sides argument I've ever seen, so congrats on that.

I don't appreciate your aggressiveness and I don't see how this has anything to do with an both sides argument. Being anti-Trump doesn't make you exempt from criticism where its due and using language of "lowest scum" and "their kind will go extinct" (before he now clarified) is/was critiqueworthy imo.

 

[sphagnum]

But isn't the alt-right truly a "fringe" group? Isn't the tide of generational Western culture as a whole leaning more and more progressive?

Not in Europe.

 

[excelsiorlef]

That's where the misunderstanding lies then. I do get your point although as has been noted I'm not sure how much this kind of bigotry will go away by generations passing on alone. Still not finding the wording perfect though tbh because it seems like exactly the kind of language these people would use/have used in the past.

You heard it here first folks hating white supremacists is just the same as being one...

Are you serious?

 

[Dalibor68]

You heard it here first folks hating white supremacists is just the same as being one...

Are you serious?

Not what I said at all, you seem to be inserting your own biases.

 

[Toxi]

I don't appreciate your aggressiveness and I don't see how this has anything to do with an both sides argument. Being anti-Trump doesn't make you exempt from criticism where its due and using language of "lowest scum" and "their kind will go extinct" (before he now clarified) is/was critiqueworthy imo.

 

[Not]

Not in Europe.

Is that due to the increased ratios of Caucasian homogeneity?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Not what I said at all, you seem to be inserting your own biases.

You claimed the poster was engaging in identical language to white supremacists....

What was your intention then?

What "critique" are you actually offering?

 

[TheCoastline]

I don't appreciate your aggressiveness and I don't see how this has anything to do with an both sides argument. Being anti-Trump doesn't make you exempt from criticism where its due and using language of "lowest scum" and "their kind will go extinct" (before he now clarified) is/was critiqueworthy imo.

Again, this is not a thread about how people are mean to nazis. You are giving nazis, including the nazis Trump employs, and racists, including Trump, cover by changing the subject of conversation.

 

[Opto]

I don't appreciate your aggressiveness and I don't see how this has anything to do with an both sides argument. Being anti-Drumpf doesn't make you exempt from criticism where its due and using language of "lowest scum" and "their kind will go extinct" (before he now clarified) is/was critiqueworthy imo.

No one but you was confused about Nerrel meant. Similar language, sure, but you have ignored the context of neo-nazis and anti-nazis

 

[Dalibor68]

You claimed the poster was engaging in identical language to white supremacists....

What was your intention then?

What "critique" are you actually offering?

In regards to the wording - when you hear "the lowest scum ... their kind will go extinct" you will think of white supremecists/hardcore bigots/etc typically using this language, which is why I found it ironic that someone unironically used it in an arguement against said people. That doesn't mean "Both sides are equally bad! I'm secretly voting Trump", it means despite being on the right side you should still not stoop to a low level/use such inciting language imo.

 

[excelsiorlef]

In regards to the wording - when you hear "the lowest scum ... their kind will go extinct" you will think of white supremecists/hardcore bigots/etc using this language, which is why I found it ironic that someone unironically used it in an arguement against said people. That doesn't mean "Both sides are equally bad! I'm secretly voting Trump", it means despite being on the right side you should still not stoop to a low level/use such inciting language.

No only you would think that.... I think nazis are terrible and their ideology will hopefully die out soon for the better of the world at large.

So this is basically a don't be mean to nazis argument?

 

[Nerrel]

Being anti-Trump doesn't make you exempt from criticism where its due and using language of "lowest scum" and "their kind will go extinct" (before he now clarified) is/was critiqueworthy imo.

You think that calling the people who say things like this....

... They’re sick of being forced to bow down before women and monkey people from anywhere. They’re sick of being told they are lesser, while looking at themselves and seeing that they are better in every conceivable sense than any of these people they are being told to submit to.

...scum is uncalled for? Because I'd love for you to explain to me why I should be going softer on them.

This thread isn't going very well is it....

 

[Ekai]

The alt right is fascism with memes

I mean. You're not wrong.

 

[Ayato Kanzaki]

Not in Europe.

In Europe there are currently some frictions between catholics and muslims, but it's on a far lower scale that what the media would make you believe.

However, you shouldn't compare the idiots in Europe with your alt-right, as they're not nearly as malicious. They may be fools and xenophobes, but they don't hack accounts of black celebrities, don't see their governements as conspiring against them, and they don't harass women because they're women.

 

[sphagnum]

Is that due to the increased ratios of Caucasian homogeneity?

More or less. Same causes leading to the rise of the far right but different demographics leading to different results.

However, you shouldn't compare the idiots in Europe with your alt-right, as they're not nearly as malicious. They may be fools and xenophobes, but they don't hack accounts of black celebrities, don't see their governements as conspiring against them, and they don't harass women because they're women.

No, they just harass immigrants and people of color, ban burkinis, and elect far right wing nationalist governments.

 

[excelsiorlef]

In Europe there are currently some frictions between catholics and muslims, but it's on a far lower scale that what the media would make you believe.

However, you shouldn't compare the idiots in Europe with your alt-right, as they're not nearly as malicious. They may be fools and xenophobes, but they don't hack accounts of black celebrities, don't see their governements as conspiring against them, and they don't harass women because they're women.

No they just pass laws that allow the police in groups to harass muslim women and make them take off some of their clothing in the name of fighting terrorism and radical extremism

Oh and vote for economic ruin in the name of sticking it to dem foreigners/

 

[Toxi]

I don't see why we're smack-talking Europe when Congress is controlled by Republican chucklefucks who literally stated their modus operandi was to throw a tantrum about a black President.

 

[Dalibor68]

You think that calling the people who say things like this....

...scum is uncalled for? Because I'd love for you to explain to me why I should be going softer on them.

This thread isn't going very well is it....

No, insult them all you want. I just can't help but find it ironic when you however use the same typical language as them as in "scum that should be extinct". Maybe it's a language thing, in german it would be pretty much the naziest thing you could say. Which again doesn't mean I'm equating the two but being on the right side doesn't give you a free pass on everything either. In any case, I think the discussion has run its course and I feel like now its just semantics and I don't want to derail even further.

 

[BigDes]

I don't see why we're smack-talking Europe when Congress is controlled by Republican chucklefucks who literally stated their modus operandi was to throw a tantrum about a black President.

Because European GAF like to smugly come into race threads and say it isn't an issue in Europe when actually of its as much of an issue as it is in the US.

 

[sphagnum]

I don't see why we're smack-talking Europe when Congress is controlled by Republican chucklefucks.

Well, the question was if "the tide of generational Western culture as a whole leaning more and more progressive" will save us. And it's true that the youth are generally always more left leaning than any other group but that doesn't mean much since it often doesn't last, and demographics come into play. The US is going to be spared this fascist death spiral because the far right can't win national elections anymore due to demographics, but the difference in the demographics of European countries means the far right parties are making significant progress and there's no sign of a strong youth counterculture blocking it except in some particular places like Greece where there are still a ton of socialists and anarchists who are willing to do street battles when it comes down to it.

I just don't think we should pin our hopes on Millennials in Europe to fix what's going on there.

edit: also, the above

 

[Opto]

I don't see why we're smack-talking Europe when Congress is controlled by Republican chucklefucks who literally stated their modus operandi was to throw a tantrum about a black President.

The real answer is that everyone needs a smacking.

 

[Aaronology]

Because European GAF like to smugly come into race threads and say it isn't an issue in Europe when actually of its as much of an issue as it is in the US.

Yep. This happens in every large thread involving race relations in the US, almost without fail.

 

[User1608]

Because European GAF like to smugly come into race threads and say it isn't an issue in Europe when actually of its as much of an issue as it is in the US.

At least many of us here in the US can admit how fucked up our country is.

 

[Nerrel]

No, insult them all you want. I just can't help but find it ironic when you however use the same typical language as them as in "scum that should be extinct". Maybe it's a language thing, in german it would be pretty much the naziest thing you could say. Which again doesn't mean I'm equating the two but being on the right side doesn't give you a free pass on everything either. In any case, I think the discussion has run its course and I feel like now its just semantics and I don't want to derail even further.

Believe it or not, there is a time and a place for harsh condemnations, and this is it. Just because those groups speak in extreme terms doesn't mean that it's immediately inappropriate for anyone else to, or that expressing disgust automatically makes your rhetoric as bad as theirs. There's a pretty big fucking difference between white supremacists talking about wanting others to literally go extinct and me saying I want their ideology to go extinct... in case you didn't realize it, you're the only one making an "ironic" connection there. I think most people recognize that the two things (white supremacy and the hatred of it) are so different that even trying to suggest a connection is unreasonable.

I know you want out of this argument, but I'm curious how you would describe these individuals. What kind of language would you use? Would you be gentler? And why?

I have a multiracial family and I see no reason to restrain my thoughts about people who say those kinds of things about people I love. Sorry, I'm not even going to consider for a second that that somehow equates me white supremacists.

I really felt the need to take this time to explain to you that it is, in fact, OK to shit on hategroups. This is the one time when using hateful speech is pretty much the right thing to do.

 

[MacBosse]

This is a no-brainer so it proves 40% of the country have no brains

Or they're deliberately turning them off so they can uphold an established order where straight white men alone possess every single right and overwhelming power over every other class. Sometimes because "God said so, and His truth is unalterable."

Stupid, brainwashed, or evil. What a base.

I was unaware that "straight white male" is a class?

 

[Piecake]

Yep. This happens in every large thread involving race relations in the US, almost without fail.

I remember a number of years ago, there was a thread (think it was one of the early immigration threads) where several Europeans (presumably) were calling out Americans for making everything about race and not everything is racism. And that it wasn't about race, but 'culture'

I always remember that when Europeans pop into American racism threads like that because I was quite amazed by the denial and delusion.

 

[Armaros]

I remember a number of years ago, there was a thread (think it was one of the early immigration threads) where several Europeans (presumably) were calling out Americans for making everything about race and not everything is racism. And that it wasn't about race, but 'culture'

I always remember that when Europeans pop into American racism threads like that because I was quite amazed by the denial and delusion.

Or more recently, refugees threads.

 

[Fat4all]

Or more recently, refugees threads.

or blackface threads

 

[Carcetti]

I was unaware that "straight white male" is a class?

Maybe you need to get into 2016 then, because these people themselves think it is a class, the best class. Let's see what Breitbart writes:

'Straight white men banned from equality lectures'
'Why diversity offices should only hire straight white men'
'Why I will only sit on straight white male panels from now on'
'The pressure to self-censor must be almost overwhelming for straight white men...'
'Feminists waging war on Working class men'

Et cetera. These sort of people have made the straight white maleness their battleground and the thing to rally around. The difference to the past is that straight white men used to have all the power and nobody could call them out on it. Hence the calls of 'white genocide' when anyone not in this class tries to do anything.

But yeah, now you know.

 

[MacBosse]

Maybe you need to get into 2016 then, because these people themselves think it is a class, the best class. Let's see what Breitbart writes:

'Straight white men banned from equality lectures'
'Why diversity offices should only hire straight white men'
'Why I will only sit on straight white male panels from now on'
'The pressure to self-censor must be almost overwhelming for straight white men...'
'Feminists waging war on Working class men'

Et cetera. These sort of people have made the straight white maleness their battleground and the thing to rally around. The difference to the past is that straight white men used to have all the power and nobody could call them out on it. Hence the calls of 'white genocide' when anyone not in this class tries to do anything.

But yeah, now you know.

So you think that these people decides what is a class and what is not? Do you value their opinion and agree with them in this case? The Breitbart people? Oh my. Yeah, now I know I guess.

 

[johnsmith]

Or more recently, refugees threads.

or blackface threads

Don't forget the granddaddy of them all, gypsy threads.

 

[Carcetti]

So you think that these people decides what is a class and what is not? Do you value their opinion and agree with them in this case? The Breitbart people? Oh my. Yeah, now I know I guess.

Who do you think should decide what class is? 'The official class committee'?

The reality of the world is that lots of angry white straight males have identified themselves as a group that's both oppressed and needing to be on the top again, made it into an actual political movement and are affecting this election right here by hanging out with Trump.

So if you'd just explain why it's necessary to get into this semantics debate when this is the issue?

 

[MacBosse]

Who do you think should decide what class is? 'The official class committee'?

The reality of the world is that lots of angry white straight males have identified themselves as a group that's both oppressed and needing to be on the top again, made it into an actual political movement and are affecting this election right here by hanging out with Trump.

So if you'd just explain why it's necessary to get into this semantics debate when this is the issue?

It is always important with semantics. If you happily group together people in big lumps of awfulness (in this case "male, white and straight"), we are not going down the right path.

But I sense that you and I could go on forever about this. At least we agree on the most important thing, that these people are vile.

 

[Apt101]

It's about time a prominent politician spoke plainly about his racism and racist ties. Many seem to tiptoe around it, when it's plain as day for all to hear and see and read.

 

[toddhunter]

I am against Trump but I personally don't think Hillary is the greatest like most people here seem to. I understand the desperation and need to clutch so hard in one direction though. I just don't think it's necessary.


I feel the same. I mentioned the gay marriage and crime bill in another post about a month ago and nobody argued against it. We crapped out this time when it comes to candidates but at least we have a better option than Trump.

You don't really vote for Hillary. You vote for the leader of the democrats.

Just like if you vote for Trump, you are voting for the Republican party platform. Trump doesn't matter, the awful things that the party will do in power are way more important.

Decent Americans should vote against those things, no matter who the other leader is.

 

[Dalibor68]

I know you want out of this argument, but I'm curious how you would describe these individuals. What kind of language would you use? Would you be gentler? And why?

Again, you're free to choose whatever heavy insults you like. Its the specific phrase you used, and maybe or probably its a language thing because if you went to 10 people here and presented them with a direct translation quote of "they are the lowest scum, best thimg is when they eventually go extinct" 10 out of 10 people will think its a Neonazi quote. So I guess sorry if that caused the confusion. Personally I would probably call most of them (alt right) bigoted manbabies.

You don't really vote for Hillary. You vote for the leader of the democrats.

Just like if you vote for Trump, you are voting for the Republican party platform. Trump doesn't matter, the awful things that the party will do in power are way more important.

Decent Americans should vote against those things, no matter who the other leader is.

I think especcially in foreign relations the personality does matter and each person always has their own baggage, so saying you just vote the party is probably not so accurate.

 

[gutter_trash]

Again, you're free to choose whatever heavy insults you like. Its the specific phrase you used, and maybe or probably its a language thing because if you went to 10 people here and presented them with a direct translation quote of "they are the lowest scum, best thimg is when they eventually go extinct" 10 out of 10 people will think its a Neonazi quote. So I guess sorry if that caused the confusion. Personally I would probably call most of them (alt right) bigoted manbabies.

I think especcially in foreign relations the personality does matter and each person always has their own baggage, so saying you just vote the party is probably not so accurate.

yes, Trump's baggage is that he is pro-Russia, bows down to Putin and wants to recognize Crimea

Foreign policy does matter, the very reason why Trump is unfit

 

[Henkka]

I can't wait for mainstream news segments trying to figure out /pol/ and r/the_donald

 

[oti]

Re-listening to the speech and daaaaaaaaamn she's so good.

Also screw this alt-right nonsense. Racists are racists, doesn't matter if they use a new name tag.

"Vote Hillary god damnit", - the entire planet

 

[Toparaman]

I can't wait for mainstream news segments trying to figure out /pol/ and r/the_donald

Someone in the audience yelled "Pepe" when Hillary said "alt-right". It has begun.

 

[gofreak]

Ireland has been leaning left, evidenced in recent elections. #notalleuropeans

 

[oti]

Ireland has been leaning left, evidenced in recent elections. #notalleuropeans

Which is all more impressive seeing how Ireland is going through a crisis themselves. Really interesting compared to Greece.

Also Spain and Portugal. Fortunately not all countries fall to the far right.

 

[Joni]

Which is all more impressive seeing how Ireland is going through a crisis themselves. Really interesting compared to Greece.

Also Spain and Portugal. Fortunately not all countries fall to the far right.

Belgium also has the honor.

Spoiler

One half is falling to the far left so it evens out.

 

[pigeon]

I am against Trump but I personally don't think Hillary is the greatest like most people here seem to. I understand the desperation and need to clutch so hard in one direction though. I just don't think it's necessary.


I feel the same. I mentioned the gay marriage and crime bill in another post about a month ago and nobody argued against it. We crapped out this time when it comes to candidates but at least we have a better option than Trump.

There's not much to say about gay marriage and the crime bill. In both of those questions she's been consistently in the Democratic mainstream. That turned out to be wrong, but nearly every politician in America was at least as wrong at the time.

Today Democrats have moved on both those issues and so has she, because she faithfully represents Democratic priorities. Which is what I want from her!

 

[SterGaf]

Which is all more impressive seeing how Ireland is going through a crisis themselves. Really interesting compared to Greece.

Also Spain and Portugal. Fortunately not all countries fall to the far right.

Greece went through center-left/"socialists", center-right/conservatives, and now "radical left". Latest polls show leaning towards "reformists", center-right New Democracy again. Far right is still quite far, and Golden Dawn is keeping a low profile these days. It could be much, much worse but it still can get much, much worse.

 

[Monocle]

Excellent speech. Hillary pinpointed Trump's disturbing pattern of racism, from his statements to his proposed policies to his allies. The more I see her speak publicly, the more I admire her.

Can any thinking person really watch this woman give a speech like that, then see Trump spew his typical superlative-studded babble, and think "Yep, Trump would definitely be a better president"?

 

[Breads]

Not what I said at all, you seem to be inserting your own biases.

We're all just projecting!

...

It doesn't matter how careful you think you are. Where and how you choose to voice your concerns falls in line with certain biases we've seen many times before.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Excellent speech. Hillary pinpointed Trump's disturbing pattern of racism, from his statements to his proposed policies to his allies. The more I see her speak publicly, the more I admire her.

Can any thinking person really watch this woman give a speech like that, then see Trump spew his typical superlative-studded babble, and think "Yep, Trump would definitely be a better president"?

I very much doubt even trumps most ardant supporters think trump would be a better president.

They just want to beat the liburals...

 

[shadowsdarknes]

In regards to the wording - when you hear "the lowest scum ... their kind will go extinct" you will think of white supremecists/hardcore bigots/etc typically using this language, which is why I found it ironic that someone unironically used it in an arguement against said people. That doesn't mean "Both sides are equally bad! I'm secretly voting Trump", it means despite being on the right side you should still not stoop to a low level/use such inciting language imo.

Oh just stop.

Ideological extinction is not inciteful language when talking about organized racism.