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[VFXVeteran]

Yeah I think you're making way too many assumptions here. For starters, I'm not "gung-ho" over console hardware, I'm just interested in the next generation tech in general. Secondly, I didn't imply that the consoles must achieve something similar to the CG trailer before PC does, and some (not all) hardware features of the consoles that allow for higher graphical fidelity are not present in current PCs.

What hardware feature would that be? SSD?

Finally, I am just thinking back at CG trailers from 15 years ago, such as this famous Halo 3 cinematic trailer and realize that today's consoles games easily outclass them.

Even back then, forward progress isn't linear. There are specific milestones that are non-linear like getting over the RT complexity hump.

 

[Haggard]

Finally, I am just thinking back at CG trailers from 15 years ago, such as this famous Halo 3 cinematic trailer and realize that today's consoles games easily outclass them.

You should probably look again...
We do in no way outclass the visuals of that trailer in all aspects today. Animation, model detail and texture quality, yes but stuff like the truly volumetric dust clouds/particle effects that actually interact with light are still to this day nowhere near to becoming the standard.
You could probably say that we have similar or better examples in real time today for everything that can be seen in that trailer... But most likely not at once.

 

[ChiefDada]

What hardware feature would that be? SSD?

Yes, the SSD and I/O hardware/architecture in aggregate. This contributes to graphical fidelity.

Even back then, forward progress isn't linear. There are specific milestones that are non-linear like getting over the RT complexity hump.

I'm not sure what you're even talking about anymore. What else am I going to go by other than historical precedent? Sure it may not be linear, but that goes both ways. The fidelity may end up being much better than this CG trailer, like today's current gen games look better than the Halo 3 CG trailer.

 

[Vick]

Yeah I think you're making way too many assumptions here.

He is talking about real-time graphics matching what's shown in the video on a technical base, not visual base.

For what it's worth, visually we'll see things on par if not better than what's on OP this very Gen on these very Consoles.. and only someone who hasn't experienced The Matrix Awakens could disagree with this.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Yes, the SSD and I/O hardware/architecture in aggregate. This contributes to graphical fidelity.

It does not contribute to the graphical fidelity because the GPU can't even handle rendering the data coming through to it. The PS5 SSD is light years ahead of what the actual GPU in the PS5 can render. Also, the PC has SSDs that are faster.

I'm not sure what you're even talking about anymore. What else am I going to go by other than historical precedent? Sure it may not be linear, but that goes both ways. The fidelity may end up being much better than this CG trailer, like today's current gen games look better than the Halo 3 CG trailer.

I know what goes into making this trailer and so I have a better idea of how much hardware power it would take to render it in realtime.

 

[TGO]

Wow! This trailer found my purpose..... to wait for the PC port, no matter when it takes me!

We got another VFXVeteran here.

Let me guess...that's what you think it'll look like on PC

Spoiler

VFX has already posted

 

[ebevan91]

I've been saying for 2 months that I was gonna replay HZD before HFW but decided not to because I didn't want to get burned out. Instead I might just watch a recap or playthrough on Youtube.

 

[ChiefDada]

It does not contribute to the graphical fidelity because the GPU can't even handle rendering the data coming through to it. The PS5 SSD is light years ahead of what the actual GPU in the PS5 can render. Also, the PC has SSDs that are faster.

With all do respect, I don't need to be in the tech field to realize none of this makes any fucking sense. The GPU can't handle the SSD data because it's too fast? Or maybe you should look at it as the SSD and I/O is so performant, it ensures GPU executes at it's maximum potential.

I know what goes into making this trailer and so I have a better idea of how much hardware power it would take to render it in realtime.

Ok, you know the future. I'm sure you predicted UE5 was going to be a reality 15 years ago as well.

 

[VFXVeteran]

With all do respect, I don't need to be in the tech field to realize none of this makes any fucking sense. The GPU can't handle the SSD data because it's too fast? Or maybe you should look at it as the SSD and I/O is so performant, it ensures GPU executes at it's maximum potential.

Go read up on the UE5 2nd demo when it was released to all platforms. I have given explicit details during that time and don't feel like getting into this yet again. There is nothing in that PS5 version of the demo that looks better than any other platform and that's with the SSD being used. Look at the SSD data transfer for that demo and see how it 's nowhere near it's peak bandwidth as people assumed from the 1st demo.

Ok, you know the future. I'm sure you predicted UE5 was going to be a reality 15 years ago as well.

Meh. If you don't like my opinions, just move on.

 

[Haggard]

With all do respect, I don't need to be in the tech field to realize none of this makes any fucking sense. The GPU can't handle the SSD data because it's too fast? Or maybe you should look at it as the SSD and I/O is so performant, it ensures GPU executes at it's maximum potential

The very best looking piece of real time graphics we've had to date, the ue5 matrix demo tops out at 10mb/frame btw ... Every bog standard pcie 3 SSD is enough for that...

 

[VFXVeteran]

The very best looking piece of real time graphics we've had to date, the ue5 matrix demo tops out at 10mb/frame btw ...

I swear these guys talk like they developed this stuff. They are so convinced what they say is right. That boggles my mind.

 

[ChiefDada]

Go read up on the UE5 2nd demo when it was released to all platforms. I have given explicit details during that time and don't feel like getting into this yet again. There is nothing in that PS5 version of the demo that looks better than any other platform and that's with the SSD being used. Look at the SSD data transfer for that demo and see how it 's nowhere near it's peak bandwidth as people assumed from the 1st demo.

No, don't change the subject. We're not going down that rabbit hole of discussing specific UE5 demos. High performing SSD and I/O allow for higher fidelity graphics. And console I/O systems currently out perform those found in PCs today. Here's your quote below to remind you that the fucking stupid comment that you made was fucking stupid:

It does not contribute to the graphical fidelity because the GPU can't even handle rendering the data coming through to it. The PS5 SSD is light years ahead of what the actual GPU in the PS5 can render. Also, the PC has SSDs that are faster.

 

[ChiefDada]

The very best looking piece of real time graphics we've had to date, the ue5 matrix demo tops out at 10mb/frame btw ... Every bog standard pcie 3 SSD is enough for that...

The first UE5 demo on PS5 looked better, so no.

 

[Darklor01]

Its common practice still.
Though I agree that in forbidden west case its in game visuals are good enough for marketing trailers.

It's an odd choice. Everything we have seen lately has been in game PS5 or PS4 cut scene or gameplay. I could see it as something to put out if we hadn't been exposed to so much in-game stuff thus far. Kinda strange.

 

[VFXVeteran]

No, don't change the subject. We're not going down that rabbit hole of discussing specific UE5 demos. High performing SSD and I/O allow for higher fidelity graphics. And console I/O systems currently out perform those found in PCs today. Here's your quote below to remind you that the fucking stupid comment that you made was fucking stupid:

The discussion is quite simple.

If I can feed in higher fidelity assets but can't render them in a viable timeframe at a viable resolution, then what good is it? The PS5/XSX have GPUs that have very low bandwidth so even if the high fidelity assets are in VRAM, they will choke trying to render them as evident by their struggle with assets that aren't even high fidelity to begin with.

 

[isoRhythm]

Why does every Playstation related thread devolve into people arguing over the PS5's specs...

Excited about the flying mounts, I hope they haven't spoiled too many things. We still have very little idea what the Forbidden West really is.

 

[Coolwhhip]

That trailer was bad. It was basically rendered gameplay scenes with that voice actress that tries too hard to sound dramatic. They should look at old Blizzard trailers next time.

 

[ChiefDada]

The PS5/XSX have GPUs that have very low bandwidth so even if the high fidelity assets are in VRAM, they will choke trying to render them as evident by their struggle with assets that aren't even high fidelity to begin with.

Right, because the PS5 GPU was choking and struggling to render the "low fidelity" 8k textures and 16k shadow maps at 1440p in the original UE5 demo.

You no longer have any merit as a "tech professional" as it relates to these type of conversations in my opinion, therefore it's time to move on.

 

[bitbydeath]

Right, because the PS5 GPU was choking and struggling to render the "low fidelity" 8k textures and 16k shadow maps at 1440p in the original UE5 demo.

You no longer have any merit as a "tech professional" as it relates to these type of conversations in my opinion, therefore it's time to move on.

He thought Horizon Forbidden West on PS5 would look worse than Zero Dawn on PC. Ignore that clown.

 

[Rea]

Someone knows more about GPU hardware in console than the Architect himself. Why would someone design an Very high speed IO, if the GPU can't even render them. What a waste of resources and time.

 

[Haggard]

Right, because the PS5 GPU was choking and struggling to render the "low fidelity" 8k textures and 16k shadow maps at 1440p in the original UE5 demo.

You have obviously no idea how Nanite works.... Seriously, stop it. Go watch epics UE5 deep dives before you continue making a fool out of yourself.

SSDs allow for faster refreshing of RAM contents. That gives freedom in level design, speeds up loading and allows much more efficient ram use overall... It doesn't improve the GPU, at best it allows for more flexibility.
The GPU is still the weakest link and will stay the weakest link, especially in the current gen consoles.

 

[ChiefDada]

You have obviously no idea how Nanite works....

SSDs allow for faster refreshing of RAM contents. That gives freedom in level design, speeds up loading and allows much more efficient ram use overall... It doesn't improve the GPU which is still the weakest link and will stay the weakest link, especially in the current gen consoles.

Cool.

I'll buy you an Unreal Engine 5 if you can find where I made this claim. Good luck.

 

[Haggard]

Edit: on second thought. Pointless discussing this with people who'd not even be able to program html...

 

[VFXVeteran]

Right, because the PS5 GPU was choking and struggling to render the "low fidelity" 8k textures and 16k shadow maps at 1440p in the original UE5 demo.


You no longer have any merit as a "tech professional" as it relates to these type of conversations in my opinion, therefore it's time to move on.

I've heard this for years from many people, and yet, it seems that I still get a bunch of guys with shady glasses on that take offense to what I have to say until it's proven that what I said was true all along.

Yea, put me on ignore and move on. When you get threads where the current gen of consoles aren't producing what people expect, you can think about this conversation.

 

[Heylon]

Seen this going around, still taken from this trailer.

She looks so much better with some slight changes to her face. Women can be attractive/feminine while being capable and strong. #BringBackFeminineWomen

 

[Haggard]

I swear these guys talk like they developed this stuff. They are so convinced what they say is right. That boggles my mind.

95% of "tech discussions" on internet boards is between ppl who have at most seen a few youtube videos or have subscribed to some of the usual tech channels. No surprises there.

The More You Know The More You Realize You Don't Know

-Aristotle

 

[SLB1904]

She looks so much better with some slight changes to her face. Women can be attractive/feminine while being capable and strong. #BringBackFeminineWomen

That fuck you talking about

 

[The artful mincer]

That is not combat, she just use a granade to escape, i bet one of your testicles that you can only stealth\distract enemies in the water.

It's extremely hard to have FUN underwater combat and i don't think that guerrilla wasted too much time trying to get it right when they already have great ranged combat and improved melee combat on land.

Well I won't bet a testicle but I'll do an avatar bet. The greande appears to go into the dinos mouth which suggests combat.

I think gg could implement some simpler underwater combat. I.e the grenade in the trailer or a couple of unique underwater range weapons.

I would be disappointed if we have zero offensive under water abilities. Just evading/ swimming away from the machines would be boring.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

The end of the PS5 gen and the PS6 generation will see games with this visual fidelity for sure… approx 40 TFLOP machines…

The PS and console hardware are always lagging behind the latest GPU hardware out. It took way more than 15yrs for videogames to even implement PBR materials. You are overestimating the power of a $500 console and what it can do (which is typical of a person gung-ho over console hardware). If anything is going to render something like this trailer in realtime, it would be a high end GPU first and foremost before a console and I think even 2 more generations of an Nvidia GPU card won't be enough for what's displayed here.

You ever play the Matrix Demo?

 

[Markio128]

I have no concerns about the visuals because they are as good as anything else out there at the mo. My only mild concern is that, whatever new is added to the gameplay formula, benefits the game as a whole. I'm really looking forward to getting some (hopefully) relatively spoiler free info from the impending reviews tomorrow and fingers crossed it turns out great.

 

[Elog]

The discussion is quite simple.

If I can feed in higher fidelity assets but can't render them in a viable timeframe at a viable resolution, then what good is it?

This would have been a good argument if there was a correlation between rendering calculations and texture fidelity but there is none. Depending on the I/O capabilities of the chip there might be small increases in time between some calculations because larger number of bits need to be moved.

The TFLOPs of the GPU will of course be a bottle neck as always but rapid asset streaming of high fidelity assets greatly increase the visuals with minimum GPU load impact. That is why SSD plus I/O matters for visual output just like the calculation power of your GPU.

 

[VFXVeteran]

This would have been a good argument if there was a correlation between rendering calculations and texture fidelity but there is none. Depending on the I/O capabilities of the chip there might be small increases in time between some calculations because larger number of bits need to be moved.

The TFLOPs of the GPU will of course be a bottle neck as always but rapid asset streaming of high fidelity assets greatly increase the visuals with minimum GPU load impact. That is why SSD plus I/O matters for visual output just like the calculation power of your GPU.

Right but they aren't equal with what they provide for visuals. The SSD isn't going to stream RT PBR materials - which has to be done with the GPU.

 

[Heylon]

That fuck you talking about

I'm simply pointing out that she looks miles better on the edited pic I posted.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I know what goes into making this trailer and so I have a better idea of how much hardware power it would take to render it in realtime.

Its called work arounds…what alot of games do to achieve results with less taxing techniques.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Its called work arounds…what alot of games do to achieve results with less taxing techniques.

Work arounds won't give you this quality unfortunately.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Work arounds won't give you this quality unfortunately.

load up the matrix demo…