But its because I identify as a woman. The woman in this game was exoticised by her tokenism. No male character in this scenario was singled out for rape. It has made my safe space where I am a powerful thug who isnt accountable to anyone no longer safe.
In other words, she completely missed the point. Pig Butcher is a monster. You aren't suppsed to identify with him and his actions. Some people like this writer aren't fazed by the violence though, so the game played another card and forced her hand.
Or maybe rape is something that is more real to her than a psychopathic rampage. Its not like video games are the only media where rape is handled much differently than murder.
The sort of rape depicted in the game is NOT something 33% of all women experience. If you lump all sexual violence into one category then you might as well lump all physical violence into one category and then the violence depicted in HM is experienced by (fake huge percentage) of all people, thereby making it... unacceptable?
I don't get it. This is a game in which you kill people by the hundreds in rather gruesome fashion, and it's the fake rape scene that gets criticized?
What about when books or movies do this sort of thing, and it's real within the context of the story? I don't see anyone complaining about those in the same way that they are complaining about this.
Not trying to take sides, but I think the main issue people are having with this is the fact that you can justify violence to a certain extent, but rape is something that can never be justified.
The sort of rape depicted in the game is NOT something 33% of all women experience. If you lump all sexual violence into one category then you might as well lump all physical violence into one category and then the violence depicted in HM is experienced by (fake percentage) of all people.
What's wrong with this? If anything it achieved the desired effect on the writer.
"Stay with me while I dissect these feelings, feelings I do not want: I certainly want someone to blame for this betrayal, because it hurts that something I enjoy so much would be this problematic, so upsetting. Id like to blame Sarkeesian for making me aware that this happens in the games I like but it isnt her fault that I am aware. And it starts to make me feel incredibly hypocritical: you liked the violence, I think. You liked, as the game says, hurting people. Why do you feel ugly now, for playing a game where your character rapes a woman? It isnt even graphic, but implied. These are pixels, Cara. Just pixels."
It made the writer feel uncomfortable about what was going on screen and made them question why they weren't uncomfortable waaay before that scene.
Sounds to me like the mark of a great game in the making if it made her feel like that. The best works of art are those that make you feel uneasy, disturbed and push you away from your safe zone so that you question yourself.
I'm not saying every art piece should be like that either, and I'm not saying every video game is an art piece.
Also, I find the "it's okay as long as it's not glorified" posts quite surprising seeing how much murder, violence and torture are glorified in the media in general and more specifically in video games. Of course, it is easier to rationalize when it is a horde of "bad guys" we are killing, but still, I see quite a bit of hypocrisy underneath, especially with how recent games have been stylising all kind of no-doubt extremely painful killing through finisher moves and the like, something that definitely goes against all codes of morality even against a virtual bad guy/enemy.
It's definitely a tricky subject though. Would you accept playing as a serial rapist if the game mechanics are designed to be as fun as hotline miami's serial killing mechanics are?
Personally I don't see the problem. The music stops and the creepy music that comes when you finish a level starts playing. You're supposed to be disgusted pretty much, until you hear the cut from the director, signifying that you're on a set filming a movie.
What? That's...that's it? There's outrage over...a fictional rape in what's already a world of fiction? You don't even see anything! Guy drops his pants and...director yells cut, then you see both actors standing around with the crew.
There's outrage for this!? I'd understand anger over a real sequence with sexual violence, but it's a movie shoot!
Not trying to take sides, but I think the main issue people are having with this is the fact that you can justify violence to a certain extent, but rape is something that can never be justified.
I'm actually bothered by the spoiler. I didn't want to know about the scene (or anything else) before I reached it on my own playthrough, thanks a lot angry article writer.
Not trying to take sides, but I think the main issue people are having with this is the fact that you can justify violence to a certain extent, but rape is something that can never be justified.
What about blasting her with a shotgun before the rape? Does that not matter? Or is it the rape that follows suit that crosses the line? Either way, you'd think that whether she was raped at gun point out raped after being half dead, the outrage would be the same because of how vulnerable the character is regardless.
I don't think it's that hard to understand why people are a lot less comfortable with fictional rape than they are fictional murder. A lot of people have lived through rape and sexual abuse. It's something that they have personally experienced and is therefore likely to be upsetting when they are confronted with rape in a media setting. No one lives through being decapitated or blown to pieces. It's not something we can comprehend from an experiential standpoint. Even taking it back a step, relatively few people (at least in North America) have been intentionally shot or seriously injured by another. Especially in a situation where they had no power to do anything. I'm sure those who have tend not to like violent media either.
As for books, movies, etc. People complain about explicit rape scenes in those as well. Some movies are boycotted/avoided for similar content.
Personally I don't see the problem. The music stops and the creepy music that comes when you finish a level starts playing. You're supposed to be disgusted pretty much, until you hear the cut from the director, signifying that you're on a set filming a movie.
How can you be mad over something that's obviously intended to be creepy/uncomfortable, then flipped on its head when revealed to be fake and part of whatever sleazeball movie these characters in the Hotline Miami universe are making? The scene seems to be PURPOSELY going for the "No no no no no YES" feeling of "Thank God that didn't actually happen." Y'know, despite killing a ton of enemies in every level.
When the time comes for the audience and/or journalists to get angry for real, nobody's going to listen.
Personally I don't see the problem. The music stops and the creepy music that comes when you finish a level starts playing. You're supposed to be disgusted pretty much, until you hear the cut from the director, signifying that you're on a set filming a movie.
Not trying to take sides, but I think the main issue people are having with this is the fact that you can justify violence to a certain extent, but rape is something that can never be justified.
I would only agree with this IF the player was the one raping. If rape is in a game and isn't done in an exploitive matter, then I don't see why it should be forbidden in games. Rape is a very awful thing. But it's real and happens in the real world. If someone wants to include it in a game as part of the story, how is that any different from rape depicted in books or film?
Edit: was speaking in general. I know for this game, it depicts the player doing it. I don't know how I feel about it. My post above would suggest I'm against it. But what if your character is supposed to be a bad guy? I totally get why people would be against this though. You are playing s character where he does a despicable act and you have no choice in the matter. Although that happens all the time in video games (you don't always have control over the decisions your character makes, and sometimes the character is a bad guy).
The cops could also kill you. That was their intent. Dunno, I have no problem with killing a woman in a video game if her intent is to kill me, but rape is an act of degradation usually perpetrated against a defenceless innocent person. It's kind of like the movie Leon, the viewer is empathic to the character despite him killing cops. Had he raped Natalie Portman for kicks people would have been revolted.
Watching the scene in question from HM2 it's quite obvious an act though, so can't see the controversy.
I think it's an interesting article (and perspective) though even after reading her reasoning, i seem to reach the opposite conclusion, that is a sign of the game reaching its goal.
Hotline Miami is a game meant to left you shaken and even upset, not just a mindless fun ultra violent beat em up, in my eyes.
Of course this means it's something not for everyone and to tread lightly, but that's true for many pieces of (good) art.
How do you know it's something stupid if you haven't even read it?
This is a prime example of what is wrong with GAF not reading articles before commenting. You make assumptions about what the writer is saying and end up getting all huffy about faux outrage where there is none.
Let me put it this way since you claimed the violence is ok because most people will never experience that level of violence. Since the way violence is depicted in the game makes it ok...what percentage of women experience sexual violence in the way it is specifically depicted in the game?
Millions of people tuned in to root for or watch the downfall of a sociopath, aka Breaking Bad. If media in other forms such as music, paintings, television, and film can cover immoral or 'icky' concepts of human life, why can't videogames attempt the same thing?
Oh, right, it makes people feel something instead of simply being fun.
Sounds to me like the mark of a great game in the making if it made her feel like that. The best works of art are those that make you feel uneasy, disturbed and push you away from your safe zone so that you question yourself.
I'm not saying every art piece should be like that either, and I'm not saying every video game is an art piece.
Also, I find the "it's okay as long as it's not glorified" posts quite surprising seeing how much murder, violence and torture are glorified in the media in general and more specifically in video games. Of course, it is easier to rationalize when it is a horde of "bad guys" we are killing, but still, I see quite a bit of hypocrisy underneath, especially with how recent games have been stylising all kind of no-doubt extremely painful killing through finisher moves and the like, something that definitely goes against all codes of morality even against a virtual bad guy/enemy.
It's definitely a tricky subject though. Would you accept playing as a serial rapist if the game mechanics are designed to be as fun as hotline miami's serial killing mechanics are?
Brutally stab a guy to death? Fine.
Bash him head in while he crawls along the floor? Fine.
Rape scene? DISGUSTING. BETRAYAL. HOW DARE THEY?
This industry, man...I think it's sexist that developers have to tip toe around anything considered sexist like women are delicate little flowers. It's a dark, brutal game. If it was in a movie no one would care.
The voice of reason and topic winner. Thank you, good sir.
As for the whole "identification" issue - it's for the better that the author of that article explores this. Killing people is, in reality, a horrible (and quite possibly wronger) thing to do, and it's perfectly within the violent mindset to also commit sexual violence.
I was going to condemn this but after watching the entire scene I'm not going to. For me, it gets away with it because of the context. I understand why people have a problem though and think it's worth discussing. All the posts in this thread saying rape should be treated exactly like murder in games are pretty dumb, sorry.
So the main reason why she is so offended is because the implied rape happens to a female instead of a male? The way this is written, it seems that she would be much less offended if a man was implied to be raped instead.
If that's the case (I'll give her the benefit of the doubt), than she is being sexist here. If one truly believed in gender equality and were against gender-based discrimination, than the act of rape should be equally bothersome, regardless of the gender of the person being raped.
I don't think it's that hard to understand why people are a lot less comfortable with fictional rape than they are fictional murder. A lot of people have lived through rape and sexual abuse. It's something that they have personally experienced and is therefore likely to be upsetting when they are confronted with rape in a media setting. No one lives through being decapitated or blown to pieces. It's not something we can comprehend from an experiential standpoint.
A lot of people have experienced violence though as a child or teenager, without having had the power to do anything either, and that kind of violence is very common in games. Seems weird that rape would be singled out.
I would only agree with this IF the player was the one raping. If rape is in a game and isn't done in an exploitive matter, then I don't see why it should be forbidden in games. Rape is a very awful thing. But it's real and happens in the real world. If someone wants to include it in a game as part of the story, how is that any different from rape depicted in books or film?
Rape in a game like this is not OK. Not at all. Not even close, even if it's in a movie being film within the context of the game.
The original was hyper violent but all that violence begged questions to be asked by the player. Read Edge's making of feature where one of the creators, Jonatan Söderström (Cactus), talks about how he wanted the gamer to ask them self if they wanted to go through with the murder. Even in the game, the main character pukes after the first mission. You're suppose to feel queasy about it and it's commentary on the medium as well.
How many games are released every year where the main player guns down innumerable enemies, blood flying or not? It's an obscene amount. Now ask yourself: How many games are released where a player rapes a woman? If you're going to have an excruciating amount of violence in your game to comment n the industry and ask questions, fine, since that's a question that needs asking and pondering. But rape? There is no question. Don't do it.
Granted, I type all this without having played the game, but from what I see it looks like it has stepped over a line without a decent reason, which is inexcusable.
Personally I don't see the problem. The music stops and the creepy music that comes when you finish a level starts playing. You're supposed to be disgusted pretty much, until you hear the cut from the director, signifying that you're on a set filming a movie.
It showed nothing it didn't happen people are so sensitive about games, when movies go balls out litterally with this shit they say nothing. What is wrong with people? Double standards really suck. Rape is heinous but a simulated one didn't occur he said cut on a film set in game before something that graphic took place. Luckily if not the game would be banned. But not the last house on the left or that old 90's film called Kids, or various others. I am offended about how bad that person is at this game was it the first time he played. Also offended that they took Tony Tiger Masks ability to use weapons. That is fucking lame. I have a feeling this one may not live up to tbe first one although the graphics are slightly improved. Everyone isn't the same balled white guy anymore. Thats an improvement.
Cultural taboos are often illogical, there's no doubt about that. But there's a reason people sometimes commit suicide rather than be raped. It can carry some pretty heavy psychological trauma and cultural meaning. Not all deaths are demeaning but I would argue that all rapes are. So I can understand the aversion.
Edit: Hmm, after seeing the actual video I'd say the context makes it less offensive...
Then what's the point of even posting articles? The content originates from elsewhere, and it's incredibly hard to have a mature debate with someone who refuses to click a link for fear of giving a writer money (a writer whose article we're discussing at that!)
