Support NeoGAF

[levious]

...

Are the trains made from special light-refracting plastic or something? How do you not see it?

This small town in Texas I lived in had a train track running through the middle. Trains came through about 4 or 5 times a day. Twice during the 3 years I lived there someone crashed into a moving train while turning to cross the tracks. Both responded similarly, "I've made that turn everyday for the last 20 years, and there's never been a train there before." So yeah, people are stupid. And every intersection now has crossing bars - which they should have before anyway.

 

[Incognito]

While not directly involving idiot drivers, there's been 7 train derailments in San Antonio(City Limits) over the last year. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Vinzer Deling]

http://www.bestplaces.net/city/ccecon.aspx?Lcity=4835000&Rcity=0644000&

ECONOMY Houston Los Angeles US Avg.
Income per cap. $18,993 $21,865 $21,658
Household inc. $37,573 $48,978 $44,958
Unemp. rate 4.2% 5.5% 4.0%
Rec. job growth 3.3% 3.4% 2.6%
Future job growth 13.6% 7.3% 10.8%
Sales taxes 8.25% 8.10% 6.35%
Income taxes 0.00% 6.00% 4.60%

Housing 87.8 199.0 100.0

Personal and family income differences are below 15% but housing cost is more then double?

Someone do the math to see if it balances out.

 

[AstroLad]

http://www.bestplaces.net/city/ccecon.aspx?Lcity=4835000&Rcity=0644000&

ECONOMY Houston Los Angeles US Avg.
Income per cap. $18,993 $21,865 $21,658
Household inc. $37,573 $48,978 $44,958
Unemp. rate 4.2% 5.5% 4.0%
Rec. job growth 3.3% 3.4% 2.6%
Futr. job growth13.6% 7.3% 10.8%
Sales taxes 8.25% 8.10% 6.35%
Income taxes 0.00% 6.00% 4.60%

Housing 87.8 199.0 100.0

Personal and family income differences are below 15% but housing cost is more then double?

Someone do the math to see if it balances out.

I'd believe it; like everyone said you pay a premium to live in a real city. Otherwise, go to Albuquerque; it's just a matter of what you're looking for (and often what career you're in, e.g. propane sales vs. a professional career). I'm fucking with Houston, I love Phoenix, where my family lives and the situation is similar to Houston (not a real city, cheap nice new housing, actually imo Phx is a bit nicer), but it's not as clear-cut as just the numbers don't balance, therefore everyone should move to Houston/Phx/Albuquerque, there are reasons far greater than housing cost to be in LA, whereas in those other cities housing cost may be one of the top reasons.

ECONOMY	        Houston	Phoenix US Avg.
Income per cap.	$18,993	$20,387	$21,658
Household inc.	$37,573	$39,166	$44,958
Unemp. rate	4.2%	2.6%	4.0%
Rec. job growth	3.3%	2.0%	2.6%
Ftr job growth  13.6%	28.3%	10.8%
Sales taxes	8.25%	7.15%	6.35%
Income taxes	0.00%	3.90%	4.60%
COST OF LIVING
Overall	95.4	101.8	100.0
Housing	87.8	89.3	100.0
Food	93.3	113.7	100.0
Transp. 105.8   109.9   100.0
Utilit.	100.1	107.1	100.0
Health	110.7	114.5	100.0
Misc.	97.1	101.8	100.0

Now you wanna see some real shit?

ECONOMY	      New York	Los Angeles	US Avg.
Income per cap.	$23,966	$21,865	$21,658
Household inc.	$47,714	$48,978	$44,958
Unemp. rate	5.3%	5.5%	4.0%
Rec. job growth	3.6%	3.4%	2.6%
Ftr. job growth	3.1%	7.3%	10.8%
Sales taxes	8.25%	8.10%	6.35%
Income taxes	10.52%	6.00%	4.60%
COST OF LIVING
Overall	193.4	140.0	100.0
Housing	293.4	199.0	100.0
Food	141.5	110.0	100.0
Transp.	119.7	113.4	100.0
Util.   179.6	119.7	100.0
Health	186.2	114.4	100.0
Misc.	135.1	107.0	100.0

 

[Loki]

Note to poster above:


The somewhat higher wages in places like NY do not in any way counterbalance the cost of living increase, which includes housing. Average wages may be 10-20% higher (more on the hgh-end), but cost of living is easily 40-50% higher here.


EDIT:

Actually, going by Astrolad's numbers above, it would appear that the average household income in NY is roughly 20% higher than a place like Phoenix, yet our cost of living is apparently almost 100% higher (i.e., a cost of living index of 101.8 vs. 193.4 for Phoenix and NY, respectively-- a 93% increase). So no, wages do not cancel out the cost of living increase except on the high end (white-collar professionals and business people).

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Note to poster above:


The somewhat higher wages in places like NY do not in any way counterbalance the cost of living increase, which includes housing. Average wages may be 10-20% higher (more on the hgh-end), but cost of living is easily 40-50% higher here.


EDIT:

Actually, going by Astrolad's numbers above, it would appear that the average household income in NY is roughly 20% higher than a place like Phoenix, yet our cost of living is apparently almost 100% higher (i.e., 101.8 vs. 193.4 for NY, a 93% increase). So no, wages do not cancel out the cost of living increase except on the high end (white-collar professionals and business people).

loki hit it right on the head. your paycheck here in the city just doesnt last as long with the way things are priced. it's ridiculous frankly. and there far more people who are hovering at the poor-middle class line than there are affluent families here.

 

[Loki]

loki hit it right on the head. your paycheck here in the city just doesnt last as long with the way things are priced. it's ridiculous frankly. and there far more people who are hovering at the poor-middle class line than there are affluent families here.

Yeah, but who gives a shit about them? America is all about the affluent...


</sarcasm>

 

[AstroLad]

Yeah, but who gives a shit about them? America is all about the affluent...


</sarcasm>

Well considering that the thread is premised on 279k house in Houston vs. 298k house in Los Angeles, I'd say most of the posts in this thread are aimed at discrediting that (someone making 100k in Houston would likely be making more in LA); poverty is an interesting issue, and a tangential one, but I'd say it's a discussion that deserves its own thread. Also, you can't merely look at Cost of Living and Average Income and assume that proves anything, that's far too simplistic; you also need to look at access to services, suitability of housing, etc.

 

[Vinzer Deling]

Which was what I was comparing since there were claims that wages were double that of the average Houston wage/salary. Hence the price of housing/cost of living was more expensive and the cost of living is balanced out. Which it clearly isn't.

 

[AstroLad]

Which was what I was comparing since there were claims that wages were double that of the average Houston wage/salary. Hence the price of housing/cost of living was more expensive and the cost of living is balanced out. Which it clearly isn't.

Well the flaw in your reasoning is that you're assuming that the increase in other areas for someone looking at ~300k houses living in LA is the same as that shown in the statistics, which, as Loki pointed out, is anything but true, since those numbers are seriously dragged down by the poor, whose income often does not differ substantially from e.g. poor people in Houston.

 

[Loki]

Well considering that the thread is premised on 279k house in Houston vs. 298k house in Los Angeles, I'd say most of the posts in this thread are aimed at discrediting that (someone making 100k in Houston would likely be making more in LA); poverty is an interesting issue, and a tangential one, but I'd say it's a discussion that deserves its own thread. Also, you can't merely look at Cost of Living and Average Income and assume that proves anything, that's far too simplistic, you also need to look at access to services, suitability of housing, etc.

But I wasn't speaking exclusively of the poor, though Solrac's quote mentioned them. Even for the middle class (i.e., anybody who is not "affluent", which in NY is ~$90K and above for a single person, I'd say), things are incredibly tight. My father purchased our home 24 years ago and could sell it for about $750K today; he couldn't afford to buy a comparable house these days if he was just starting out, however.


I just feel-- quite justifiably-- that the middle-class is being squeezed from every angle. Too "rich" for government subsidies, tuition aid etc. (as my family is-- thank God my sister got a $25K/year scholarship to NYU or else we never could have afforded it), yet too "poor" to really do anything other than get by. It's sad. The plight of the poor is even worse, yet for different reasons.


I just wanted to make a general statement.


EDIT: Point taken on the fact that a person purchasing a $300K house in Houston would likely not be purchasing a $300K house in LA, but rather a more expensive one due to the fact that their income would increase.

 

[AstroLad]

But I wasn't speaking exclusively of the poor, though Solrac's quote mentioned them. Even for the middle class (i.e., anybody who is not "affluent", which in NY is ~$90K and above for a single person, I'd say), things are incredibly tight. My father purchased our home 24 years ago and could sell it for about $750K today; he couldn't afford to buy a comparable house these days if he was just starting out, however.


I just feel-- quite justifiably-- that the middle-class is being squeezed from every angle. Too "rich" for government subsidies, tuition aid etc. (as my family is-- thank God my sister got a $25K/year scholarship to NYU or else we never could have afforded it), yet too "poor" to really do anything other than get by. It's sad. The plight of the poor is even worse, yet for different reasons.


I just wanted to make a general statement.

I couldn't agree more with that notion. NYC gives a new meaning to "tight budget." That was actually a small issue I brought up earlier- what leads people to pay the premium to live in NY. Certainly there are an infinite number of possibilities, but I think the major ones are simply that some people have always lived here and do not ever want to leave (some never even having been out of NY), professional opportunities, and for some poor saps love of the city that makes the premium justified in their minds (well, at least until they pay rent and buy groceries for a few months).

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Is anyone else besides me thinking the real estate market will collapse in on itself. I can't believe these prices are stable, and I am always curious about who the people are that buy the houses. Is this all because of housing loans, or is there really that many people that can afford a house like that in California?

 

[onion_pixy]

Is anyone else besides me thinking the real estate market will collapse in on itself. I can't believe these prices are stable, and I am always curious about who the people are that buy the houses. Is this all because of housing loans, or is there really that many people that can afford a house like that in California?

Yup, there certainly are that many people in LA. since the 60s the market has gone up and up and up.....It really is out of control, Ive been watching the real estate market here my whole life. My house which I paid 260k for in March 2003 could sell for about 430k right now. The house next door to me which is a dump, just sold for 395k. Let me tell you I do not live in the best of neighborhoods either. Houses rarley stay on the market for a month. Its often a nice house in a good neighborhood will go in under 24 hours. When interest rates come back up, if they ever do I expect the market to fall a bit, but I'm sure over time it will come back.


That's the other difference between Houston/LA prices. A house in LA is more than likely a better investment in the long run over a house in Houston.

 

[AstroLad]

Yup, there certainly are that many people in LA. since the 60s the market has gone up and up and up.....It really is out of control, Ive been watching the real estate market here my whole life. My house which I paid 260k for in March 2003 could sell for about 430k right now. The house next door to me which is a dump, just sold for 395k. Let me tell you I do not live in the best of neighborhoods either. Houses rarley stay on the market for a month. Its often a nice house in a good neighborhood will go in under 24 hours. When interest rates come back up, if they ever do I expect the market to fall a bit, but I'm sure over time it will come back.


That's the other difference between Houston/LA prices. A house in LA is more than likely a better investment in the long run over a house in Houston.

That's why so many people just rent in LA/NY. In Manhattan, I don't think you can get a place, any place, for under a million any more.

 

[Vinzer Deling]

Well the flaw in your reasoning is that you're assuming that the increase in other areas for someone looking at ~300k houses living in LA is the same as that shown in the statistics, which, as Loki pointed out, is anything but true, since those numbers are seriously dragged down by the poor, whose income often does not differ substantially from e.g. poor people in Houston.

Lets compare middle-class areas aka white suburbia around Houston and LA.

Anyone from LA or HOU got any areas?

 

[Loki]

Is anyone else besides me thinking the real estate market will collapse in on itself. I can't believe these prices are stable, and I am always curious about who the people are that buy the houses. Is this all because of housing loans, or is there really that many people that can afford a house like that in California?

No, many people think the bubble will burst soon; my grandfather worked in real estate for many years and still keeps up with it, and he says the same thing. Property values won't depreciate too much, but eventually they should settle into their natural equilibrium. These things go in cycles-- it's just that it's been on the upswing for a long time now (that is, this "cycle" is taking too long ); it's definitely been a seller's market for about the past 4-5 years.


One of the problems is that the city is alluring for vast numbers of upper-middle and upper-class people/professionals, and they're the ones flocking here (and the only ones who can comfortably afford it); consequently, there are always buyers available no matter the price being asked, and this serves to keep prices artifically high. Though some would paint this as "what the market can bear", I don't think a city which marginalizes the bulk of its populace is preferable to one that has opportunities available for people of all socioeconomic statuses.

 

[AstroLad]

No, many people think the bubble will burst soon; my grandfather worked in real estate for many years and still keeps up with it, and he says the same thing. Property values won't depreciate too much, but eventually they should settle into their natural equilibrium. These things go in cycles-- it's just that it's been on the upswing for a long time now (that is, this "cycle" is taking too long ); it's definitely been a seller's market for about the past 4-5 years.


One of the problems is that the city is alluring for vast numbers of upper-middle and upper-class people/professionals, and they're the ones flocking here (and the only ones who can comfortably afford it); consequently, there are always buyers available no matter the price being asked, and this serves to keep prices artifically high. Though some would paint this as "what the market can bear", I don't think a city which marginalizes the bulk of its populace is preferable to one that has opportunities available for people of all socioeconomic statuses.

Yay gentrification.