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How could John McCain win in November?

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grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
HOW COULD JOHN McCAIN WIN IN NOVEMBER?
History versus circumstance in the general election

Larry J. Sabato
Director, U.Va. Center for Politics


It's obvious to just about everyone that, at least theoretically, the Democrats have a near-perfect climate for presidential victory in 2008. A deeply unpopular Republican President is mired around 30 percent in the polls; last week, Bush was at 28 percent, a couple points higher than Richard Nixon on the day he resigned. Bush hasn't seen majority backing in three years or even a miserable 40 percent support level in two years. General Petraeus' optimism notwithstanding, a large majority of Americans believe that the Iraq war wasn't worth fighting and should be phased out as soon as reasonably possible. The economy has tanked, gas prices are through the roof, and an incredible eight in ten Americans think the country is seriously off on the wrong track -- usually a death knell for the White House party.

John McCain, as the nominee of the Republican Party, is saddled with the legacy of the 30 percent President. He spends much of his time defending and advocating the out-of-favor Iraq War. He admits that he knows relatively little about economics and hasn't focused on the subject during his decades in Congress. If elected, McCain would be the oldest first-term President, but this appears to be a time when the public is seeking to turn the page and start afresh. McCain has raised so little money by comparison to both his Democratic opponents that it has become a lingering embarrassment. And you tell us that McCain has a chance to win?

Well, yes. We wouldn't bet on him just now, and if he wins, it will likely be a minimal Electoral College majority
. Still, it's more than theoretical that McCain could pull off an upset. Actually, the word "upset" doesn't quite capture the significance of his possible victory. Based on 220 years of precedent, a McCain win would be a striking repudiation of American history, since no presidential candidate of a two-term incumbent party has ever been elected under this set of severely adverse conditions.

April is not November, but McCain has some reason for optimism if one looks at the recent polling. Sometimes McCain is up a few points on Obama and Clinton, and sometimes he's down a few points, but it's fair to call the election a tie today. Obama does a bit better than Clinton when matched against McCain but not consistently or substantially so.

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Let's also remember that the current match-ups do not reflect the future. When Democrats settle upon their nominee in the next couple of months, that nominee-in-waiting will receive a boost in the polls. The circumstances at the time will determine how much of a boost, but a noticeable gap between McCain and the Democrat is likely to open -- and not in McCain's favor.

So, recognizing the exceptional degree of difficulty facing McCain and the improbability of its happening, how could McCain frustrate the Democrats and snatch victory from the yawning jaws of defeat? Without question, some of the following conditions would have to be met:

Democratic Dissension said:
The Democrats don't have to go as far as self-immolation, though the Republicans would obviously welcome it. The Obama-Clinton contest would just have to continue to deteriorate into vicious negativism and nasty counter-charges, such as we are seeing on a daily or weekly basis. The key for the GOP is for the Democrats to alienate permanently the losing candidate's most dedicated cadre of supporters. This is tough to do, since the clear historical trend has been for the vast majority of party identifiers to return home, even late in the general election campaign (as Reagan Republican voters did for Gerald Ford in 1976 or Democratic voters did for Al Gore in 2000).

Quiet on the Middle Eastern Front said:
The less the voters are concentrating on Iraq, the better for McCain. The inconvenient truth is that Americans want out quickly, hang the consequences, and McCain doesn't. McCain's principled stand may warrant him a chapter in the next edition of Profiles in Courage, but most of the currently featured politicians in JFK's book were defeated. Could it be possible that good news will come out of Iraq in October? Could Gen. Petraeus announce that so much progress has been made that he is recommending that the freeze in troop withdrawals be thawed? This is reminiscent of LBJ's last-minute bombing halt of North Vietnam in late October 1968 -- the move that nearly propelled Vice President Hubert Humphrey to victory over Richard Nixon. Notice that we said Petraeus and not Bush. President Bush is so roundly disliked -- far more so than Lyndon Johnson was in '68 -- that any announcement by Bush would be viewed with deep skepticism and suspicion. A backlash could develop among millions of voters who might believe that they were being manipulated. Additionally, the announcement would depend on genuine, manifest good news. And the insurgents have sometimes demonstrated knowledge of the election calendar, so they could not be counted upon to cooperate.

A Short and Shallow Recession said:
The avalanche of truly awful economic news has buried consumer confidence for now. Of late, we've had some depressing chats with experts in that field, and their gloomy outlook is for the American stagflated slowdown to last two years or more. If their forecast proves accurate, McCain has only the slimmest chance to win in November. Voters simply do not reward the incumbent party when the economy is terrible. We leave aside entirely the legitimate argument that Presidents don't run the $14 trillion annual U.S. economy -- thank goodness -- and therefore do not deserve the credit for good times or the blame for bad times. What matters is what the electorate believes, and to be blunt, Americans like to have someone to blame. He lives in the White House. But for the purpose of our argument in this essay, let's project a rosier scenario: The recession turns out to be a typically short, shallow downturn of just a couple bad quarters. It's possible that by November, things will be looking up for the economy and for McCain's chances. Of course, voters must perceive the shift if they are to become more optimistic. The problem is that media coverage of a bad economy tends to be self-reinforcing and usually elongates the era of bad feelings -- potentially grim news for McCain.

President Who? said:
Chief Executives of both parties live in a pleasant bubble, surrounded by adoring crowds and groveling aides. They regard critical press and low poll ratings as the rants of lunatics and biased pundits who refuse to recognize their greatness. President Bush is no different. He will never be on a ballot again, so he can safely brush aside or discount entirely disagreeable realities. (As Vice President Cheney said a few weeks ago, when presented with the evidence of the public's strong discontent with the Iraq war, "So?") John McCain is not so lucky, and he will be on the ballot in six and a half months. McCain needs all of the 30 percent who still back Bush, but he must find 20 percent among those who dislike the President. This high-wire balancing act will require the skill of an Olympic-qualifying gymnast. McCain will have to stress his fealty to certain Bush/Republican principles, while staking out independent, anti-Bush ground on specific issues (such as spending, China, and so on). It wouldn't hurt for McCain to remind the public, subtly but with some frequency, that he ran against Bush in 2000 and predicted Bush would not be a successful leader. (The videotape of McCain hailing Bush in 2004 will have to be seized as contraband.) Far more helpful than this, however, would be the announcement that President Bush intends to take a lengthy foreign trip in October, with the even more unpopular Vice President Cheney in tow. There must be many obscure nations the two have not yet visited -- ones with no operating TV satellite relays. Global warming is affecting Antarctica, for example, and Bush could be the first President to spend time there. The difficulty for McCain is that one gets the sense that Bush has no clue what a massive deadweight he actually is for his potential successor. To McCain's chagrin, Bush may even insist on campaigning with him on U.S. soil.


The Need to Check Congress said:
You can't find a nonpartisan analyst of congressional elections who isn't predicting that Democrats will maintain control of both houses of Congress this November. In fact, the lackluster debate is not about partisan control but rather how many additional seats the Democrats will get in the House and the Senate. That's good news for the Democrats -- except that Americans don't trust either party, and most people rather like building in an extra "check and balance" by having Congress and the Presidency controlled by different parties. McCain could capitalize on this sentiment: "I'm the only thing preventing complete Democratic dominance of the federal government, and they'll go hog wild in spending, and far to the left in social policies if you give them the keys to both Capitol Hill and the White House." Yet this argument will require McCain to admit what his fellow GOP leaders are loath to acknowledge, that they will lose Congress rather badly. It will help McCain if he speaks the truth, even if his congressional colleagues think he's cutting them off at the knees.


Exploiting the Special Weaknesses of Obama and Clinton said:
It is fair to say, given the conditions of this election year, that McCain is the default candidate. Voters will first look at the Democratic nominee, hoping to make a change from George Bush's persona and policies. Only if people find the Democrat wanting will they turn, second-hand, to McCain. This assumption thus requires the Republicans to make clear what is unacceptable about the Democrat. Whether the nominee is Obama or Clinton, McCain is bound to make the case that the Democrat is too liberal, too unreliable on national security, and too determined to raise taxes. All of these may have an impact, especially the latter, since a substantial tax increase for some Americans is nearly guaranteed should a Democrat win. (The debate will be about which "some" -- just "the rich", or the middle class, too.) Should Hillary Clinton surprise, and somehow come back to win the Democratic nomination, McCain will focus on "the Clinton issue" -- her personality, her husband, and the past Clinton scandals. Gender bias -- the hidden belief that a woman should not be President -- would be a mainly internet-driven part of the campaign. With Obama, the extra dimension of the attack is two-fold. The legitimate prong is inexperience, given Obama's very short political and governmental resume. McCain himself will have no hesitation in pursuing this line of argument. The illegitimate but unavoidable element of the campaign will be race. We have already discussed some aspects of this in the Crystal Ball, and only the naive will think that the racial controversies of the primary season will not be revisited and expanded upon for the general election. Most of this will come from "independent" political committees such as the so-called 527s, or anonymously across the internet. In the end, the eternally divisive, often covert issue of race may be the single greatest threat to Obama's election, and a substantial hidden advantage for the Republican candidate.

Conclusion said:
How many of these half-dozen factors must be realized for McCain to win? It's difficult to say, but at least half would be a good guess. No doubt our "Six Stipulations for Success" would constitute John McCain's ideal November. By definition, exactly half of the major-party presidential candidates are lucky in the general election. McCain will need all that Lady Luck has to offer if the electoral formula we suggest here is to materialize.

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/article.php?id=LJS2008041701
 
If he hires a hit on the other candidates he might win... if he doesn't die of natural causes first. Isn't he like 80 or something?
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
giga said:
Can you just give me a one-sentence summary?

McCain's fucked unless Iraq suddenly starts going well, the recession rebounds aburptly, Bush takes a vacation during the election, and the Democrats tear there selves apart completely. And even then it will be a close election
 
Aside from all the other shit, I think the majority of American people will go with their consciences at the ballots and vote Democratic.
 
You would think the polls for any Republican would be in the gutter after 8 years of total fuck-ups, but McCain's not doing too bad. It's actually disturbing.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
teruterubozu said:
You would think the polls for any Republican would be in the gutter after 8 years of total fuck-ups, but McCain's not doing too bad. It's actually disturbing.

Larry Sabato pointed it out in the article. He expects a big boost for the Democrats when they finally choose their nominee
 

Dilbert

Member
Given the electoral college system, it wouldn't surprise me if McCain won. There are some states guaranteed to vote retarded every time, no matter how compelling the Democratic candidate might be.
 
-jinx- said:
Given the electoral college system, it wouldn't surprise me if McCain won. There are some states guaranteed to vote retarded every time, no matter how compelling the Democratic candidate might be.
Don't -jinx- it!
 
MightyHedgehog said:
Aside from all the other shit, I think the majority of American people will go with their consciences at the ballots and vote Democratic.
The majority of America voted Democratic the last two times and that still didn't work.

I don't know how they're doing it, but somehow the Democrats are showing themselves to be just barely better than the Republican nominee that Republicans think is too moderate. You'd figure after eight years of Bush this would be a blowaway, but it's not.
 
He won't win, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

Interestingly, the article's 5th point hits on what I've been bitching about for a while now.
 

FightyF

Banned
How can he win?

Well, come out with a solid platform and address how they are going to pull out of Iraq, how the Republicans are going to improve the economy, and reveal their plans to make HealthCare more affordable underprivileged Americans.

I mean, that's what the Republicans have in mind, right?
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
siamesedreamer said:
He won't win, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

Interestingly, the article's 5th point hits on what I've been bitching about for a while now.

Checking Congress and attacking Hillary/Obama are probably his best chances. Becuase I really can't see the economy or Iraq getting better in the public's perception by November. Still I'm not sure the public will buy the checking congress argument with Bush around
 
FightyF said:
How can he win?

Well, come out with a solid platform and address how they are going to pull out of Iraq, how the Republicans are going to improve the economy, and reveal their plans to make HealthCare more affordable underprivileged Americans.

I mean, that's what the Republicans have in mind, right?
That's what they had in mind decades ago. It really is amazing when you look how the Bush administration and Fox News has completely rearranged the party line. Bush actually strongly promoted not getting involved in wars and foreign conflicts to win in 2000, after Clinton had kept fucking around with other countries.
 

tnw

Banned
(As Vice President Cheney said a few weeks ago, when presented with the evidence of the public's strong discontent with the Iraq war, "So?")

I know it's a bit off topic, but my jaw almost dropped in anger when I heard this.


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Well, exit polls in 2004's election did show the number one important issue to voters was moral values. Somehow, I have a feeling McCain will try and divert voter's attention on Iraq and make them believe that the biggest threat will be Hillary or Obama trying to raise taxes and force healthcare onto you. The fear card of another terrorist attack will not work that's for sure.
 
grandjedi6 said:
Still I'm not sure the public will buy the checking congress argument with Bush around

It could be something that plays with the indies. But, will it be enough to combat the increased black vote? I doubt it.
 

FightyF

Banned
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
That's what they had in mind decades ago. It really is amazing when you look how the Bush administration and Fox News has completely rearranged the party line. Bush actually strongly promoted not getting involved in wars and foreign conflicts to win in 2000, after Clinton had kept fucking around with other countries.

True.

There are a lot of books written about this Administration and about these policies put into place, and I think FOX can't be blamed (though they ran with it)...I have a feeling it has EVERYTHING to do with Cheney. I have a feeling that once Cheney became VP, this whole NeoCon agenda came into fruition. I don't blame Bush for anything other than being a weak-minded person allowing radical elements to take over.
 
FightyF said:
I don't blame Bush for anything other than being a weak-minded person allowing radical elements to take over.

Bush wasn't weak-minded when he signed bullshit like the Prescription Drug Benefit. Its that kind of stuff where McCain providing the check to the DEMs is arguably necessary.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
That's what they had in mind decades ago. It really is amazing when you look how the Bush administration and Fox News has completely rearranged the party line. Bush actually strongly promoted not getting involved in wars and foreign conflicts to win in 2000, after Clinton had kept fucking around with other countries.

It's actually 9-11 that changed Bush's stance on nation building.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
FightyF said:
True.

There are a lot of books written about this Administration and about these policies put into place, and I think FOX can't be blamed (though they ran with it)...I have a feeling it has EVERYTHING to do with Cheney. I have a feeling that once Cheney became VP, this whole NeoCon agenda came into fruition. I don't blame Bush for anything other than being a weak-minded person allowing radical elements to take over.

Bush wasn't some weak minded fool who went along with the plan, he was one of the primary planners for invading Iraq with no evidence. Also you might as well throw Rumsfield and Wolfowitz in there too. They were also big on going after Iraq from the get go.
 

FightyF

Banned
Thanks for the correction guys. I forgot to also type after the books thing, "...and I haven't read ANY of them, but to me I have a feeling that..." so I was hoping for more insight, thanks.
 

laserbeam

Banned
Absinthe said:
I think he'll win no matter who wins the democratic nomination.

I suspect he will win but at the end of the day it doesnt really matter. They are all the same just using different identification labels
 

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
I still think there's a good chance of a massive "failure to vote" on the part of the embittered Obama/Hillary fans when their person doesn't get the nomination.
 

kablooey

Member
laserbeam said:
I suspect he will win but at the end of the day it doesnt really matter. They are all the same just using different identification labels

Let me guess: you voted Nader in 2000?

I get more worried about McCain winning in November the longer the Dem. primary drags on. To the point that I'm like, really fucking worried now.

Also, I saw that recent Gallup poll which said that at this point, Hillary supporters are more likely to defect to McCain in a general election if she doesn't get the nomination than Obama supporters would be if she wins. Something to think about regarding the "Obama is more electable" argument...
 
was this thread really necessary? this is really all conjecture because, as history proves, some part of the US will always find a way to get stupid/retarded.
 

Gaborn

Member
laserbeam said:
I suspect he will win but at the end of the day it doesnt really matter. They are all the same just using different identification labels

This.

The truth is as badly as the Republicans have mismanaged, lied, and governed like corrupt drunken sailors, their candidate is more "traditional" and more "experienced" which tends to be popular with late deciders rather than a candidate that is perceived as "different" or inexperienced. Though, again, it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
If things stay the way they are (in regards to debates and controversy) McCain will win. The Democrats are killing themselves when it comes to puplic opinion
 
I'm beyond confident that he'll win. Iraq may be a problem for McCain, but the fact remains that people really like him and he'll be able to steal many independant, Hispanic, and white blue collar votes from either democrat, especially Obama. He does better than Obama in Ohio right now. He kills him in Florida. He narrowly beats him in Penn. Sure these things will change once the democratic party is unified, but the demographics are in McCain's favor. On the flip side Obama has constantly struggled with blue collar, white voters in states like Ohio, and he continues to struggle with older whites in general. Those are telling signs

He's not going to magically win a bunch of states that usually go red, and I expect his positive numbers among moderate republicans to continue to decrease as the GOP mud machine smears the shit out of him. There's an interesting article in Newsweek about the GOP's plan to "wimp-ify" Obama ala Kerry, and it won't be hard to do with all the question marks concerning his patriotism and judgement with respect to shady relationships. I AM NOT QUESTIONING HIS PATRIOTISM, but if you think those little issues will be meaningless in October you're wrong
 
How could he win? Easy . . . the Democrats will shoot themselves in foot as the usually do.

It is gonna be the same stuff as always . . . Racism, anti-homo, and paranoid "They are gonna take away your Bibles and guns" stuff.

Or Gays, Guns, and God as some put it.
 
The myth of McCain as a centrist maverick is what's keeping his numbers up. Destroy it, and he loses. Period.

However, considering the current Clinton-Obama battle and the media's love affair with him, that's easier said than done.
 
speculawyer said:
How could he win? Easy . . . the Democrats will shoot themselves in foot as the usually do.

It is gonna be the same stuff as always . . . Racism, anti-homo, and paranoid "They are gonna take away your Bibles and guns" stuff.

Or Gays, Guns, and God as some put it.

Will shoot themselves in the foot? They already are. This mud-slinging bout between Hillary and Obama is poison.
 
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