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[Shaanyboi]

Yes. Not the best experience of playing with friends, but you're still doing it.

That really doesn't count. You play with friends because you can talk to them, talk shit to them, coordinate with them, laugh with them. If you're disconnected from any real communication, you may as well be playing with randoms.

 

[GuessMyUserName]

My issue is with the launch content. They could promise 50 maps, 10 modes, voice chat, a 20 hour campaign and a free copy of Zelda U 10 months after launch and I would STILL have issue with the 5 maps that come with the game at launch.

Right. So don't buy at launch.

Again, that last bolded line there that you quoted of me:

purchase a product when you are satisfied with what it offers.

Clearly, launch period the game is not in a condition that is satisfactory to your expectations. Don't buy it. That's what I've been saying all along.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

You can play with friends from day one, you can't do custom games though.

...I clearly said there's no easy way to play with friends until August, not that you couldn't do it at all

a major game update event in August will add further friend matchmaking functionality to enable 4 players to form a team and battle against other teams, as well as functionality to create private 8-player matches with just friends.

Unless the Wii U has some hidden party functionality I don't know about it seems like Nintendo is either rushing the game out before it's completed because the Wii U is a barren wasteland when it comes to software, or that they are inexperienced/incompetent when it comes to creating a modern online "shooter"

 

[VanWinkle]

If my friend and I join a race on Mario Kart 8 online is that still playing with friends?

In that case, it's established that you're not playing in teams. You already know you are facing each other.

 

[Conan-san]

Nintendo's launching half of a game, they deserve to get slammed. Reviewers should review exactly what's there.

Unless I missed something with the 1p mode they're releaseing 75%.

 

[phanphare]

The existence of 3 cheap 8-bit minigames that you can't play because you don't want to buy some figures is "extremely troubling" to you? Really?

dude, those mini games look awesome. if they're locked behind an amiibo with no other way of getting them in the game that's fucked.

 

[『Inaba Resident』]

That really doesn't count. You play with friends because you can talk to them, talk shit to them, coordinate with them, laugh with them. If you're disconnected from any real communication, you may as well be playing with randoms.

lol that doesn't count?
My friend and I can still play in the same match together. The way its done in Splatoon just isn't very good and it sucks but I'm still playing with my friend.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

My comparison is skin deep. My problem with Evolve, was that while it played really well, the lack of content at launch left a sour taste in my mouth. Splatoon is giving me the same kind of worries based off of this direct. The comparison, for me, is apt.



You made it your problem by replying to me, though. My complaints weren't directed at you.

but the game has a single player campaign. If its shorter than the Order I can understand the gripe, but if Its Mario Galaxy levels of awesomeness than we are worrying over nothing.

This game isn't your typical brainless shooter. The stuff they've shown from the SP is Nintendo doing what they do best.

Writing the SP off just because the game is centered around shooting does it a disservice, since it's clearly doing things outside of the box creatively than most standard shooters even attempt to do in their SPs.

 

[KooopaKid]

You made it your problem by replying to me, though. My complaints weren't directed at you.

Yeah you're right. I'm just saying what NotLiquid said. Just buy it a bit later when the game is "complete" enough for you. Not a big deal. For me, the gameplay seems too good to pass up on day one. It's a new IP from Nintendo and it will be supported regularly making it last longer.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Unless the Wii U has some hidden party functionality I don't know about it seems like Nintendo is either rushing the game out before it's completed because the Wii U is a barren wasteland when it comes to software, or that they are inexperienced/incompetent when it comes to creating a modern online "shooter"

I suspect it's a bit of both.

 

[Jarsonot]

Guys, you don't NEED to play with friends! Just play with randoms and pretend they're your friends! It'll be the exact same experience - sweet silent gameplay. After each match you can talk to yourself about the awesome shot your "friend" made.

 

[xaszatm]

Nintendo's launching half of a game, they deserve to get slammed. Reviewers should review exactly what's there.

Unless I missed something with the 1p mode they're releaseing 75%.

No they're releasing a full game. A full game that will be updated starting, at the very least, three months after launch. The question isn't whether or not the game is "complete" it's whether or not what they offer is worth $60. You can disagree on that, but the game is still complete. In any case,

The biggest problem right now is that all we have is the number of maps. What really matters is how good each map is. Like, TF2 at launch might as well had only 5 maps because who the hell played Hydro? Even then, 2Fort dominated the servers. If the quality of every map is good, then the short number of maps is irrelevant to the discussion of quality here.

As a side note, given what we learned about the game, it seems that the game was already designed around having no voice chat because some of the items would be worthless with it. The Finder (both the sub and super) wouldn't be as important if people could be warned by players ahead of time.

 

[Gunstar Ikari]

Review the game as it is on launch day, add footnotes about new content when appropriate.

And 5 maps at launch does sound pretty silly, regardless of how large the campaign is supposed to be. If it takes until August to launch with an adequate amount of content, then release the game in August. If you can't afford to do that, then maybe you shouldn't have let yourself get into such a situation in the first place.

 

[KingSnake]

...You mean like how they're charging 13 bucks for an Amiibo to unlock challenges and a unique costume?

Challenges that are rehashes of existing levels which you can play without amiibo. But I agree about the costumes, they are totally worth. The costumes are so rare in this game and there is no way to win online in some kind of splatfest some kind of prize that would get you what stats you want no matter what costume you wear online.

Amiibos are selling more as a collectible than a DLC.

 

[PotionBleue]

I see that the game is €35 on amazon.fr.

Zelda Wind Waker HD, Mario Kart 8, Super Smash Bros., Super Mario 3D World are €45-€50.
Mario Party 10, Captain Toad : Treasure Tracker, Hyrule Warriors, Kirby are €30-€35.

I don't have a problem with the price/content, what annoys me is that these updates are going to take room on the Wii U's limited memory when it could have been on the disc.

 

[VanWinkle]

Guys, you don't NEED to play with friends! Just play with randoms and pretend they're your friends! It'll be the exact same experience - sweet silent gameplay. After each match you can talk to yourself about the awesome shot your "friend" made.

You're being facetious, but I do agree that the lack of voice chat or any kind of party chat on Splatoon and Wii U respectively is a big problem. I think it will especially come into play in this game, that is striving for a competitive nature (and nailing it in a lot of ways).

I see that the game is €35 on amazon.fr.

Zelda Wind Waker HD, Mario Kart 8, Super Smash Bros., Super Mario 3D World are €45-€50.
Mario Party 10, Captain Toad : Treasure Tracker, Hyrule Warriors, Kirby are €30-€35.

I don't have a problem with the price/content, what annoys me is that these updates are going to take room on the Wii U's limited memory when it could have been on the disc.

Right, but I think a lot of us who have an issue with the price/content are having to pay $60 (aka full price here in the US).

 

[phanphare]

If you can't afford to do that, then maybe you shouldn't have let yourself get into such a situation in the first place.

as true as this is the Wii U's fate was set in stone pretty much at launch and definitely during that 2013 drought. if the Wii U weren't the Wii U I'm sure they would have just delayed the game until it was ready.

 

[?oe?oe]

"get with the times," they said

Modern games, ugh.

 

[NotLiquid]

It wasn't my intention to give you this wrong impression.

I wasn't talking about you specifically, I meant in regards to this thread in general and your question.

 

[Jigorath]

So you're basically buying an unfinished game with an "IOU" note from Iwata? Lol good lord, if EA or Microsoft was behind this they'd be crucified.

 

[Camjo-Z]

dude, those mini games look awesome. if they're locked behind an amiibo with no other way of getting them in the game that's fucked.

I can't speak for the other minigames but the one they showed in the Direct just looked like a Doodle Jump clone. But if you simply must have them, why not just buy the amiibo and resell it afterwards if you don't want the figure? They're not even sold out like the Smash set, you can pre-order online right now. It just seems silly to complain when there's such an easy solution to the problem.

 

[Toxi]

Challenges that are rehashes of existing levels which you can play without amiibo. But I agree about the costumes, they are totally worth. The costumes are so rare in this game and there is no way to win online in some kind of splatfest some kind of prize that would get you what stats you want no matter what costume you wear online.

Amiibos are selling more as a collectible than a DLC.

Man, I'm loving these excuses.

It's DLC, get over it. I'm sure the game will be very fun without some unique costumes, challenges based on rehashed levels, or mini-games, but it's still the exact same shit you were complaining about earlier.

 

[『Inaba Resident』]

But if you simply must have them, why not just buy the amiibo and resell it afterwards if you don't want the figure?

Because somebody shouldn't have to do that. Its really shitty that its locked behind amiibos when it should just be in the game to begin with. Especially when amiibos are extremely hard to get.
Like I want the exclusive outfits but I can't find the amiibos anywhere so I'm fucked.

 

[Conan-san]

No they're releasing a full game. A full game that will be updated starting, at the very least, three months after launch. The question isn't whether or not the game is "complete" it's whether or not what they offer is worth $60. You can disagree on that, but the game is still complete. In any case,.

Just FYI I agree with you, I think it's 100% in tune with Smash 4 and MK 8, I only said 75 as part of the anology.

 

[Moon_frogger]

This doesn't seem like a unique situation. It should be reviewed at launch with maybe updated impressions as it adds new stuff

 

[phanphare]

I can't speak for the other minigames but the one they showed in the Direct just looked like a Doodle Jump clone. But if you simply must have them, why not just buy the amiibo and resell it afterwards if you don't want the figure? They're not even sold out like the Smash set, you can pre-order online right now. It just seems silly to complain when there's such an easy solution to the problem.

because that's a silly way to go about it. I'd prefer not to support Nintendo's amiibo shenanigans.


and I was more excited about the rhythm mini game, not the doodle jump clone ;p

 

[NotLiquid]

Review the game as it is on launch day, add footnotes about new content when appropriate.

And 5 maps at launch does sound pretty silly, regardless of how large the campaign is supposed to be. If it takes until August to launch with an adequate amount of content, then release the game in August. If you can't afford to do that, then maybe you shouldn't have let yourself get into such a situation in the first place.

Just going to put this out there; the "major August update" right now is only mentioned to consist of the matchmaking lobbies. All of the regular stuff like maps, modes and gears are said to be thrown into the game on a more regular basis (in the EU Direct, they mention that the maps will be available "every few weeks", and the first new weapon will be available "shortly" after launch, implying that the gear spread is more compact). I'm not sure when Splat Fests is coming, which is technically a mode in and of itself because of it using it's own ranking system and has it's own rewards associated with it, but the polling dates seems to imply mid-June.

And I've mentioned this earlier in the thread, but an August launch would be pretty bad. The Summer period is a dangerous one for games and July / August is generally not a good time to be launching a big new IP, especially for a console that would have a lot to prove. They could have waited for September but Mario Maker is launching then and the fall period will start being busy with triple A titles then.

I really think this was about the best period they could put out the game while assuring a continuous spread of content.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

So you're basically buying an unfinished game with an "IOU" note from Iwata? Lol good lord, if EA or Microsoft was behind this they'd be crucified.

I doubt it. GTAV didn't even have GTA Online when it launched and pretty much every review I read completely ignored that the online functionality was incomplete, or at the very least didn't care, because the game got great reviews almost across the board. I don't remember there being much, if any backlash on forums either.

 

[Conan-san]

Because somebody shouldn't have to do that. Its really shitty that its locked behind amiibos when it should just be in the game to begin with. Especially when amiibos are extremely hard to get.
Like I want the exclusive outfits but I can't find the amiibos anywhere so I'm fucked.

What's even the situation there? Like if they're hiding stuff behind Ike or Rosilina I could see there being an issue but standard issue characters like Pikachu and Mario shouldn't be that hard to pick up and doublely so given that, AFIK, Spalatoon would be reading the Character ID rather than any Save Data so Mario Collection Mario would work just as well as Smash Collection Mario.

 

[ramparter]

Just give it a 9.5 - 10.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

I'm definitely leaning towards thinking Splatoon is unfinished and being rushed out the door to give Wii U owners something to play. For all the people blindly defending a game that is primarily marketed as a multiplayer shooter, think of it this way: if Activision released a new Call of Duty, or EA dropped Battlefront III with 5 maps at launch while vaguely promising free additional content months later, no voice chat, the ability to bring friends into a lobby but randomizing the teams until months after release, and no custom game options until months after launch would you be quick to jump into those threads and condemn them? Honestly, I feel like Nintendo gets a free pass from a hypocritical portion of a fanbase that can be out of touch with reality at times.

I cancelled my Splatoon preorder from Gamestop earlier this week and this direct really validated my decision. I already have the demo installed and will be playing it all weekend but this experience is going to have to absolutely blow me away to get me to change my mind and plop down the $60 they want for what seems like an unfinished, gimped product. It's too early for me to say with confidence whether this game will have legs like Mario Kart, Smash, Zelda, etc but if I had to guess I'd learn towards the mindset that this will be a slow burn sales wise. We'll probably see a sequel on NX unless this just absolutely bombs which I'm skeptical about since the advertising has been on point.

 

[DOWN]

review what's available at launch and be done with it

no updated review scores or any of those shenanigans

That's dumb. Updating reviews should always happen. Reviews exist to inform potential audiences. It should reflect what customers will get, especially if it isn't what was originally launched. Update it.

 

[Camjo-Z]

because that's a silly way to go about it. I'd prefer not to support Nintendo's amiibo shenanigans.


and I was more excited about the rhythm mini game, not the doodle jump clone ;p

Well, they've been doing this for a while with amiibo, and people are buying them, so... don't expect it to change any time soon.

And now that you mention it, the rhythm game did look cool.

 

[Vena]

I already have the demo installed and will be playing it all weekend

Impossible. As in, that's not how the demo works.

 

[Moon_frogger]

I doubt it. GTAV didn't even have GTA Online when it launched and pretty much every review I read completely ignored that the online functionality was incomplete, or at the very least didn't care, because the game got great reviews almost across the board. I don't remember there being much, if any backlash on forums either.

Oh, there was much backlash. Talk of a class action lawsuit when it launched broken too.
I'm reserving judgement though. I don't think this is comparable to ea or ubi hacking up their games and selling them peicemeal though

 

[phanphare]

Well, they've been doing this for a while with amiibo, and people are buying them, so... don't expect it to change any time soon.

And now that you mention it, the rhythm game did look cool.

yeah but up until now the unlocked content has been worthless fluff. they seemed to have struck a nice balance between giving out bonuses but not making them that significant. these mini games look pretty cool and being able to play them while you wait for a match or whatever sounds really neat. it just sucks that as of right now I can only play one mini game unless I give them more money.

 

[GitarooMan]

That's dumb. Updating reviews should always happen. Reviews exist to inform potential audiences. It should reflect what customers will get, especially if it isn't what was originally launched. Update it.

I disagree just because in reality there are limited resources. Games are coming out constantly and expecting reviewers to always have to go back and update reviews seems completely infeasable to me. What being sold on the shelf on day 1 should be the review focus and if the additions/dlc down the road are worth discussing there can be a news story or something. Updating seems like a poor use of limited resources.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Oh, there was much backlash. Talk of a class action lawsuit when it launched broken too.
I'm reserving judgement though. I don't think this is comparable to ea or ubi hacking up their games and selling them peicemeal though

Really? Damn, I must have missed that. Good to hear that there were people actually pissed about it.

 

[PreyingShark]

You have to review what's there at launch since you can't review content you haven't actually played. Like, you can't score on content that isn't there yet. You can update later of course, but I feel that late buyers often aren't factoring reviews into their decision that much and are instead going off of word of mouth and things like that.

What's even the situation there? Like if they're hiding stuff behind Ike or Rosilina I could see there being an issue but standard issue characters like Pikachu and Mario shouldn't be that hard to pick up and doublely so given that, AFIK, Spalatoon would be reading the Character ID rather than any Save Data so Mario Collection Mario would work just as well as Smash Collection Mario.

In the US at least, pretty much any amiibo that isn't Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, Pikachu, Bowser, Zelda (for some weird reason), and a couple others is a fucking pain in the ass to find.

And the Splatoon amiibos aren't in that short list of amiibos that are actually easy to find so chances are that they will quickly become hard to find.

 

[phanphare]

I disagree just because in reality there are limited resources. Games are coming out constantly and expecting reviewers to always have to go back and update reviews seems completely infeasable to me. What being sold on the shelf on day 1 should be the review focus and of the additions/dlc down the road are worth discussing there can be a news story or something. Updating seems like a poor use of limited resources.

it also sends the wrong message to video game publishers who have shown time and time again that they will take the whole mile when given an inch

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Impossible. As in, that's not how the demo works.

Dude stop being obtuse, obviously I am saying that I have already downloaded the client and will be playing during the 3 available play sessions this weekend.

 

[Vena]

Dude stop being obtuse, obviously I am saying that I have already downloaded the client and will be playing during the 3 available play sessions this weekend.

Not being obtuse, there was a general misconception for a while about the demo.

 

[Junahu]

Honestly, I was going to buy the game back when there was just 1 map and 1 weapon, so I'm clearly biased here.

if Activision released a new Call of Duty, or EA dropped Battlefront III with 5 maps at launch while vaguely promising free additional content months later, no voice chat, the ability to bring friends into a lobby but randomizing the teams until months after release, and no custom game options until months after launch would you be quick to jump into those threads and condemn them?

Nintendo aren't vaguely promising anything, they've downright pledged content support and have been entirely transparant about the whole thing.

Also no, I wouldn't slam any team shooter for its design choices before launch. If the new Call of Duty had 5 great maps, and was explicitly designed around wordless communication between random players, and played well, I'd actually applaud it. I refuse to judge a game based solely on the things its contemporaries say it is supposed to be.

 

[CrowDieSlow]

This feels like a Gamefaqs topic, but no one has used the words "shill" or "pony" yet. I skipped a few pages though, so maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Vena]

This feels like a Gamefaqs topic, but no one has used the words "shill" or "pony" yet. I skipped a few pages though, so maybe I'm wrong.

You must have missed the "Stockholm Syndrome" parts, then.

 

[Camjo-Z]

yeah but up until now the unlocked content has been worthless fluff. they seemed to have struck a nice balance between giving out bonuses but not making them that significant. these mini games look pretty cool and being able to play them while you wait for a match or whatever sounds really neat. it just sucks that as of right now I can only play one mini game unless I give them more money.

The spinner weapon in Hyrule Warriors was actually a fairly significant amiibo unlockable, it was basically the equivalent of a new playable character. But the main reason I'm not too critical of it is mostly because I'm not privy to how the decision for that content works. Is this stuff only in the game because they had to add something for amiibo support? Did they actually just hold stuff back? I don't know.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

I'm definitely leaning towards thinking Splatoon is unfinished and being rushed out the door to give Wii U owners something to play. For all the people blindly defending a game that is primarily marketed as a multiplayer shooter, think of it this way: if Activision released a new Call of Duty, or EA dropped Battlefront III with 5 maps at launch while vaguely promising free additional content months later, no voice chat, the ability to bring friends into a lobby but randomizing the teams until months after release, and no custom game options until months after launch would you be quick to jump into those threads and condemn them? Honestly, I feel like Nintendo gets a free pass from a hypocritical portion of a fanbase that can be out of touch with reality at times.

I agree that they've been advertising the game as a multiplayer game so people are justified in being upset at the lack of features in the multiplayer online mode


That being said, Splatoon isn't your typical CoD or Battlefront style game. The footage they've shown of the single player has shown that the game isn't the mindless "shoot everybody to win" style of game that CoD and others like it, are.

Nintendo gets a pass (until the retail copy is out) when it comes to SP experiences, especially platformers, because the've shown more creativity in one level then most games get in their full campaign.

You may not want the SP, but judging the game as an afterthought just because you've only seen the multiplayer is like people judging XCX for being a monster hunter clone with no story. Wait until the game comes out before you pass judgement on what it has and doesn't have, for a 60 dollar game.

 

[CrowDieSlow]

You must have missed the "Stockholm Syndrome" parts, then.

I saw that, but that's a step above the common Gamefaqs poster's vocabulary.

Spoiler

And I kind of agree with that statement, but I'm not interested in getting sucked into this argument.

 

[phanphare]

The spinner weapon in Hyrule Warriors was actually a fairly significant amiibo unlockable, it was basically the equivalent of a new playable character. But the main reason I'm not too critical of it is mostly because I'm not privy to how the decision for that content works. Is this stuff only in the game because they had to add something for amiibo support? Did they actually just hold stuff back? I don't know.

ahh well I didn't buy Hyrule Warriors haha

 

[NotLiquid]

The subject of "delayed reviews" is one I like to think about a lot to be honest.

As much as I can't deny that I love to have the opinion peace armed and ready to go in terms of a game I'm on the fence for, I also can't deny that some of the best analysis pieces I've read about a game or anything else like a film is after having given it enough time and deliberation in seeing how I think of it in the greater picture of things. Plenty of games I've loved in time such as Hotline Miami 2 and Killer7 are games I wouldn't have loved even as much unless I gave more time to think about them.

There's also the inherent question of the meta of a game and how the complexity of it can evolve in time. I feel a good example of this is TheGamingBrit's review of Devil May Cry 3/4 which reviews the games after a whole years of experience and perspective on it. I feel like that kind of perspective is always something worth analyzing and it's usually why fighting games and competitive multiplayer games aren't always at their best right out of the gate.

Not to say that I should expect reviews to come out years after release of course, but the upside and downside depending on the game can be that even if something launched with a complete featureset, there's still a chance that it requires quite a long time of deliberation. I think it's for reasons like those that I'm pretty content with the idea of Kotaku, Eurogamer and Joystiq not opting for binary "scores" anymore in favor for reviews that can usually be combined with several continuous impression pieces, even if I also appreciate those who stick it with a classic formula as well (and realize that for the wider audience these kind of things would be too hard to swallow).

I think Film Crit Hulk did a good article on this a while ago and even though it's technically in the context of movies, I think it applies a deal to games as well mostly because a lot of the time there's just not a good level of evaluation you can invest in a piece before it's time to move on, and that generally causes a pretty selective angle on what you can confidently say about it.