Support NeoGAF

[adamsapple]

You guys are turning GAF into a massive salt mine at this point lmao.

Turning?

 

[PeteBull]

Is there a full list of Youtubers who got paid? I want to see if the people I watch got paid off and if so I want to unsubscribe and block them on my socials.

Its not even influencers who got properly paid cash, i follow small(3,5k followers on twitch, 6k subs on yt) channel who has 3 gamers, and they got free game code of da:v on the launch day or day before, whenever embargo got lifted.

The deal was 2h stream, and those 3 guys, all 3 veteran gamers of 20+ years, hardcore af, were pretending to be crazy enthusiastic about the game, and pretending they had super fun with it, 1 of them played, 2 others were commenting/reacting/making jokes, they spent over 30 min out of contracted 2h in character creation, then played bit of prologue and thats it- 2h stream ended.
Then in their bi-weekly podcast they finally were allowed to describe how they feel about the game, ofc happened almost 3 weeks after launch so whoever got deceived and bought the game- was already fucked.
Turned out- out of 3 "enthusiastic having fun veteran players" 2 never played the game after the stream, and 1 guy, their rpg/strategy guy, played around 20h of it and found crazy amount of flaws in it

All that for just free early game code and keeping "good relationship" with the publisher(aka hope for future free game codes)- most of those influencers, including longtime veterans, have close to 0 spine, hell, those 3 from small channel i talk about at least had enough cohones to say 3 weeks after launch the truth, most others would double down and praise game for weeks/months

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

Bonnie Blue is that you?

I'm her dark side, Donnie Foo

 

[Killer8]

it goes without saying that not even smaller youtubers can be trusted these days

GAF word of mouth remains the best source whether or not ' gaem is gud '

Depends on which part of GAF you are talking about. If it's culture war whining thread number 25, then you'll probably come away thinking its release may as well be the third atomic bomb to hit Japan. Did you know that Yasuke is black?

Anyway, it's not like there's also an OT full of people with positive impressions. I'm sure everyone there is a paid leftist shill, though. I really like the game and have posted my impressions in there - can Ubi send me a check already for my services?

 

[Giallo Corsa]

You know they tell you up front that it's a sponsored stream?

You people are hilarious

Man, out of all things to defend out there, you just gotta do your usual high horse thing and defend...this ?

You are hilarious, not the others, NeoGaf is just a place for you to keep riding that moral high horse, correct others, and generally speaking, vent your frustrations, you're just incorrigible.

Best thing, your comeback is going to be the usual "rent-free" bullshit.

It's users like you that keep bringing this forum down with your constant whining and holier than thou attitude and you just don't get it.

Your only contribution to this forum is correcting others all the time and that's it, there's just no other form of engagement from you in here.

 

[Idleyes]

Well at least some good news is they got CoryxKenshin to post again.

 

[Idleyes]

Your only contribution to this forum is correcting others all the time and that's it, there's just no other form of engagement from you in here.

 

[Idleyes]

Every company does this but when Ubisoft does it they are evil and deserve to be burned in hell

Lmao ar the hypocrisy

To be fair, it's like saying that everyone's playing dodgeball, but when the school bully joins in.........

 

[viveks86]

4 pages on a nothing burger? I'm surprised the $$$ is that low.

 

[Ozriel]

Man, out of all things to defend out there, you just gotta do your usual high horse thing and defend...this ?

You are hilarious, not the others, NeoGaf is just a place for you to keep riding that moral high horse, correct others, and generally speaking, vent your frustrations, you're just incorrigible.

Best thing, your comeback is going to be the usual "rent-free" bullshit.

It's users like you that keep bringing this forum down with your constant whining and holier than thou attitude and you just don't get it.

Your only contribution to this forum is correcting others all the time and that's it, there's just no other form of engagement from you in here.

I truly hope this 5 paragraph rant brought you some measure of peace.

 

[NickFire]

If a 2 million marketing budget put them in first place for sales this month it was a great deal.

 

[Idleyes]

Its not even influencers who got properly paid cash, i follow small(3,5k followers on twitch, 6k subs on yt) channel who has 3 gamers, and they got free game code of da:v on the launch day or day before, whenever embargo got lifted.

The deal was 2h stream, and those 3 guys, all 3 veteran gamers of 20+ years, hardcore af, were pretending to be crazy enthusiastic about the game, and pretending they had super fun with it, 1 of them played, 2 others were commenting/reacting/making jokes, they spent over 30 min out of contracted 2h in character creation, then played bit of prologue and thats it- 2h stream ended.
Then in their bi-weekly podcast they finally were allowed to describe how they feel about the game, ofc happened almost 3 weeks after launch so whoever got deceived and bought the game- was already fucked.
Turned out- out of 3 "enthusiastic having fun veteran players" 2 never played the game after the stream, and 1 guy, their rpg/strategy guy, played around 20h of it and found crazy amount of flaws in it

All that for just free early game code and keeping "good relationship" with the publisher(aka hope for future free game codes)- most of those influencers, including longtime veterans, have close to 0 spine, hell, those 3 from small channel i talk about at least had enough cohones to say 3 weeks after launch the truth, most others would double down and praise game for weeks/months

spot on with this post. Those streams should be tagged with 'Viewer discretion is advised: these niggas are paid actors that have no spine."

 

[Minsc]

What's a 30 second Superbowl ad like $12 million? More?

All the marketing money gets returned 10-fold through streamers these days, not ads which people adblock anyway.

Good streamers can take a shitty and boring game and make it look fun through their commentary anyway, by picking at it and improv.

 

[Solarstrike]

So what when the game is fantastic. They gotta add coop

 

[Great Auk]

It makes me sick knowing Hasan got 76K to positively review this game.

This is why I only watch people who are usually small time or have developed a reputation over many years of building trust.

 

[Humdinger]

Added a couple more screenshots of Country and gender distribution.

Interesting that twitch has a gender category for "other" and "non-binary"

...yeah, I don't know man

Yeah, I don't get the gender breakdown. 2% female? 15% "other"?

 

[kiphalfton]

Gotta say, this game has had more controversies than the US government had in the last 20+ years - and for all the obvious reasons.

Apparently though, all of it has been "fabricated" and it's the racists'/chuds'/incels that are at fault here, God forbid that a scummy, multi-billion company with a known history of scummy practices and agenda driven drivel that's really at fault eh ?

Just looking at the new thread about the game's (good sales), you see the usual suspects trying to celebrate some sort "victory" while throwing the usual and now tired "racism" accusations left and right like there's no tomorrow.

We really live in a weird alternative timeline, the proof is there and yet people, for some reason, are always at the ready jumping at each other's throats.

People who lean on "racism" in arguments are idiots. It ends up shifting the argument away from the original point.

I see this tactic used here all the time, usually be the same group of people.

 

[Toons]

Massive game company spends millions marketing a flagship entry in one of their biggest titles

Some ppl on gaf: "This is an outrage!"

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

They suck even at hiring influencers.

I've never heard of a single one.

 

[Idleyes]

So Ubisoft is basically the UMG of gaming. Assassin's Creed Shadows is to Ubisoft what Drake is to UMG. I'm not at all surprised by Ubisoft's approach, and honestly, from a capitalist perspective, they did exactly what they're supposed to do: market their shit in the most cost-effective, high-impact way possible.

I think the disconnect in this thread comes down to people confusing two things:

1: confusing pointing out what Ubisoft did and questioning whether the game could have sold on its own merits with hating the concept of business dealings in general

2: thinking the argument that Ubisoft's actions were somehow unethical is being made when a consumer expresses feelings of being lied to.

Most of us can probably agree that, from a corporate point of view, using any legal means necessary to promote your product is just business as usual.

Streamers are capitalists too, they just have a different product. While Ubisoft is selling Assassin's Creed Shadows, streamers are selling their persona. So when parts of a streamer's persona are perceived as inauthentic, their 'product' loses value, Specifically among viewers who thought the game was buttery biscuit booty.

 

[DeafTourette]

No, it's not normal, only desperate, failing company would need to do such thing. Ubisoft need to bump up AC Shadows number, so that their deal with Tencent could be finalized

Other companies let their games speak for themselves (Monster Hunter Wilds, Dragon Ball, etc)

There were sponsored ads with popular SM folks all the way back to infinity war for Marvel. This IS NOT new and no, EVERYONE does this .. even the ones who are successful... You really don't even understand social media

 

[fart town usa]

Jim warned us of this obvious truth.

 

[nemiroff]

Many of us believe the touted success of the game is actually smoke and mirrors and during the next financial disclosure we will find out the game actually underperformed internal expectations. That is our opinion, not a fact. We are waiting to see. Hopefully we will also find out how much the game cost to make vs previous AC entries.

Until we know how much real revenue was generated, what internal expectations were, and how much the game cost, we can't determine if it is a failure or not.

Despite this, the people who enjoy AC Shadows have jumped on board the Ubisoft success hype wagon touting their metrics without all the data.

The reasonable among us are simply saying that we should not celebrate until we know for sure if this game was a success or not. Very recently a similar thing happened with Dragon Age Veilguard and even a HUGE member of the press, someone who many would consider smarter and more of an insider than all of us, posted a tweet saying that when games go woke they top the charts concerning Veilguard. Of course, imho, that turned out to be wrong as the game(Veilguard) underperformed despite early metrics making it look like a win.

Many of us called Veilguard underperforming and also using similar logic also called AC Shadows underperforming. Many of us expected the game to do better than the last entry in the series and expand the IP rather than contract it. We aren't sure how that will end up, so the "shit rhetoric" may just be the mildest pushback against the early celebrators. Many of us believe we will find out with financial disclosures if ACShadows did or did not underperform, so hopefully we will know soon. What confuses many is the scale. ACShadows is a large IP and large scale. An underperformance for a game like this would look like a gigantic success for almost any other game, so it is difficult to determine how the game actually did without the pertinent data.

And here I thought calling people shills for simply enjoying a videogame was patronizing AF and (op's post) integrated at least four fallacies. But now it seems to be defined as a "mild pushback".. Oh well, I learn something new every day I guess

 

[Saber]

I don't think "others do the same" makes this shit any less silly.

It's like when they whoop the shit out of MTX and dirty business practices against custumers and ones throws "hey its not new, every company does that. Whats the problem here?".
The point is that they paid people to promote their games, and since they have being paid to do that they lost their imparciality, similar to reviewers being paid or being awarded with free trips. How do you know if they trully like the game if they have being paid?

 

[Muffdraul]

~just continuing to play AC Shadows, enjoying the shit out of it, not giving the slightest fuck about any of the drama or what anyone else thinks about it~

 

[simpatico]

I'm assured that all of the very curious love it got here was organic. Despite them working with Babel who used to advertise viral forum marketing.

 

[DragonNCM]

Do people think this is unique? Every AAA game is sspending massive amouts of money on adverstising, millions upon millions

The difference here is most of them spend from 20 to 50 millions on AAA game marketing, this guys spend maybe 10million including 2.1 million on influencers.
I call that clever spending.

 

[Idleyes]

~just continuing to play AC Shadows, enjoying the shit out of it, not giving the slightest fuck about any of the drama or what anyone else thinks about it~

I'm getting the best of both worlds. I don't have an issue with people not liking the game. Fuck, I'm already used to the idea of people not liking me, so fuck how they feel about a damn game. It's all good. I can tap elbows with them and laugh along with their jokes because that's just how they fucking feel. Ya know? Can't expect everyone to like everything. gotta have someone kicking dirt in the air and dropping meme's else this place would be dog shit boring.

 

[Topher]

People who lean on "racism" in arguments are idiots. It ends up shifting the argument away from the original point.

I see this tactic used here all the time, usually be the same group of people.

True, but people pointing out "woke defenders" or "shills" are also shifting the argument. That's not as bad as an accusation of racism obviously, but it is still unneeded, especially when many of those defending the game are not defending it because of any political positions at all. We just see a great game.

 

[MonkD]

Am I blind or is Jorraptor not on that list? Guy squeezes everything Ubi owns into some kind of content. Now I feel bad for the dude.

 

[DirtyBast8rd]

You know they tell you up front that it's a sponsored stream?

You people are hilarious

So? That makes it diffrent how? If you follow streamers you already are way susceptible to what other people say and the 'hidden' advertising that is presented to you.

 

[Idleyes]

People who lean on "racism" in arguments are idiots. It ends up shifting the argument away from the original point.

I see this tactic used here all the time, usually be the same group of people.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Sometimes it actually is racism. I agree that not every argument should rely solely on that point. I've definitely made the mistake of overlooking the West's long history of being culturally insensitive towards Japan in games.

At first, I brushed this off like, "They're just mad because there's a nigga in a samurai suit fucking their shit up." But after thinking back on all the Western made games based in Japan that threw in some random Chinese aesthetics &.or just straight laced got the culture wrong, I can see where the frustration comes from.

So yeah, my view has shifted because there's legit history behind the sensitivity. But I still won't pretend the conversation would've blown up as fast as it did without the Samurai nigga.

To Japan I say my bad & since western studios are the bad actors

 

[DEAD ORIGINAL]

I've never understood why people watch people playing video games

 

[DeafTourette]

I've never understood why people watch people playing video games

Right? I can't get into that. It's one thing to do it in person... Because you're gonna play it sometime soon...

But watching a stream of someone playing it?

The only it COULD be a valid thing is if you're learning secret moves or learning your way around a map.

 

[San Dan Glokta]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Sometimes it actually is racism. I agree that not every argument should rely solely on that point. I've definitely made the mistake of overlooking the West's long history of being culturally insensitive towards Japan in games.

At first, I brushed this off like, "They're just mad because there's a nigga in a samurai suit fucking their shit up." But after thinking back on all the Western made games based in Japan that threw in some random Chinese aesthetics &.or just straight laced got the culture wrong, I can see where the frustration comes from.

So yeah, my view has shifted because there's legit history behind the sensitivity. But I still won't pretend the conversation would've blown up as fast as it did without the Samurai nigga.

To Japan I say my bad & since western studios are the bad actors

I assume you're a black man from the US? Thanks for sharing a nuanced take regarding the whole AC: Shadows debacle, both here and in other posts I've seen from you.

The people who throw the racism slur do tend to poison the well when talking about the game. The vast majority of the human population don't care about the black people whether negatively or positively; they're a human phenotype with a complex history, just like everyone else. The 'racism' accusations derail the convo with American baggage that has nothing to do with me or many others which leaves us exasperated.

 

[Ozriel]

So? That makes it diffrent how? If you follow streamers you already are way susceptible to what other people say and the 'hidden' advertising that is presented to you.

…But that's how advertisement has worked on radio and TV for the past 7 decades at least.

 

[Idleyes]

I assume you're a black man from the US? Thanks for sharing a nuanced take regarding the whole AC: Shadows debacle, both here and in other posts I've seen from you.

The people who throw the racism slur do tend to poison the well when talking about the game. The vast majority of the human population don't care about the black people whether negatively or positively; they're a human phenotype with a complex history, just like everyone else. The 'racism' accusations derail the convo with American baggage that has nothing to do with me or many others which leaves us exasperated.

I totally get that, and I 100% agree. I'll admit, I've been guilty of bringing up racism in conversations more often than I probably should. A lot of that comes from my own reactions to the environment I'm in. To speak frankly its, more about how I process things than the things themselves, if that makes sense. It's hard to explain, but yeah… it's kind of like a self-confirming loop, where the conclusion drives the evidence instead of the evidence supporting the conclusion. It's like using the Bible to prove the Bible is true, without considering anything outside of scripture. It makes it really difficult to have a meaningful conversation with someone like that.

 

[viveks86]

The 'racism' accusations derail the convo with American baggage that has nothing to do with me or many others which leaves us exasperated.

Agree with the rest of your post, but are you saying racism doesn't exist in the world outside of "American baggage"?

 

[Idleyes]

I assume you're a black man from the US?

BTW Imma a real nigga from the USA. But yes, you're spot on.

 

[Idleyes]

Agree with the rest of your post, but are you saying racism doesn't exist in the world outside of "American baggage"?

You think I'd be kicking it with that nigga if this was the case? Oh hell naw.

 

[DirtyBast8rd]

…But that's how advertisement has worked on radio and TV for the past 7 decades at least.

Dohhh, obvious and exactly my point.

 

[San Dan Glokta]

I totally get that, and I 100% agree. I'll admit, I've been guilty of bringing up racism in conversations more often than I probably should. A lot of that comes from my own reactions to the environment I'm in. To speak frankly its, more about how I process things than the things themselves, if that makes sense. It's hard to explain, but yeah… it's kind of like a self-confirming loop, where the conclusion drives the evidence instead of the evidence supporting the conclusion. It's like using the Bible to prove the Bible is true, without considering anything outside of scripture. It makes it really difficult to have a meaningful conversation with someone like that.

I understand that if you've witness some form of unrest or friction enough times due to race it will heighten your susceptibility to confirmation bias, and unlike what the mainstream tries to brainwash us with I also understand that tribalism is innate in human nature; so for example if I was to see a man from my race mistreated by others from a different one I will immediately have more empathy for him than if it was the opposite. This holds true for all races of men (Women have bias for women regardless of race).

Agree with the rest of your post, but are you saying racism doesn't exist in the world outside of "American baggage"?

Not at all. Everyone is slightly more apprehensive to races outside of their own naturally; especially if they are from a mostly homogenous society like some eastern European countries or Japan for example. Reluctance towards other races is natural and in most cases it isn't actually malicious (I mean in person not in a videogame), but in the case of AC: Shadows I called it American baggage specifically because racism has been weaponized and politicized into becoming black v white/others and have imposed that attitude to the rest of the world is because of local history of slave trade. Most races have been subjected to slavery in one form or another at some point in their history, it's not shocking for us. Ironically the loudest people that cry about racism regarding the game's poor reception aren't even black.

EDIT: To clarify! I don't support actual racism and oppression of others just because their different! I meant to explain that most people aren't malicious!
Source: I've traveled to many countries where I'm a minority.

 

[Hustler]

Why is anyone surprised? This is normal for nearly all products these days, not just entertainment

 

[DeafTourette]

I understand that if you've witness some form of unrest or friction enough times due to race it will heighten your susceptibility to confirmation bias, and unlike what the mainstream tries to brainwash us with I also understand that tribalism is innate in human nature; so for example if I was to see a man from my race mistreated by others from a different one I will immediately have more empathy for him than if it was the opposite. This holds true for all races of men (Women have bias for women regardless of race).


Not at all. Everyone is slightly more apprehensive to races outside of their own naturally; especially if they are from a mostly homogenous society like some eastern European countries or Japan for example. Reluctance towards other races is natural and in most cases it isn't actually malicious (I mean in person not in a videogame), but in the case of AC: Shadows I called it American baggage specifically because racism has been weaponized and politicized into becoming black v white/others and have imposed that attitude to the rest of the world is because of local history of slave trade. Most races have been subjected to slavery in one form or another at some point in their history, it's not shocking for us. Ironically the loudest people that cry about racism regarding the game's poor reception aren't even black.

I guess you never heard of Jim Crow laws, red lining, segregation, sharecropping and other things AGAINST black people post slavery? You think things were hunky dory after slavery legally ended? Things didn't end for black folks post slavery. What about all the towns that were destroyed (Rosewood, Oscarville, Black Wall Street... The area that became Central Park in NYC) because white people didn't want "uppity negroes" to prosper?

There is SO MUCH more to American history and it's treatment of black people than just Chattel Slavery

 

[Pasta la Vista]

Yeah, I don't get the gender breakdown. 2% female? 15% "other"?

Yeah I noticed that youtube was the only one with that statistic of "other" being a higher % target than female.

 

[San Dan Glokta]

I guess you never heard of Jim Crow laws, red lining, segregation, sharecropping and other things AGAINST black people post slavery? You think things were hunky dory after slavery legally ended? Things didn't end for black folks post slavery. What about all the towns that were destroyed (Rosewood, Oscarville, Black Wall Street... The area that became Central Park in NYC) because white people didn't want "uppity negroes" to prosper?

There is SO MUCH more to American history and it's treatment of black people than just Chattel Slavery

You're kind of proving my point here about American baggage; black people in the Americas have had a long arduous and painful history, but so have others all over the world. Why would the rest of the world give special accommodations to ALL black people just because some bad people did bad things to a certain group of black people in a distant land?

I've never been racist to people for their skin colour, so why was I covertly called 'racist' when I was against Yasuke being an AC: Shadows protagonist? I can flip the script and call the developers racist for not giving the Japanese people (and the rest of us AC fans) a native male protagonist just like every last entry. Are they racist against Asians? Is racism towards Asians less valid than racism towards black people?

 

[Barakov]

Added a couple more screenshots of Country and gender distribution.

Interesting that twitch has a gender category for "other" and "non-binary"

...yeah, I don't know man

That's why it's called the other purple site.

 

[Peroroncino]

Yeah, I don't get the gender breakdown. 2% female? 15% "other"?

imagine losing to other ayyy lmao

 

[JayK47]

Paying influencers to pretend to like your game is just a shit tactic. I do not care if "everyone is doing it". This isn't the same as some ad. This is someone that you are following and listening to saying it is a fun game. Maybe you find out the game sucks and stop following. But it is just sneaky. Basically nothing these people do is on the level. When it comes to AAA games, pretty much everything is faked. Previews, reviews, etc.

 

[Orpheus]

I guess you never heard of Jim Crow laws, red lining, segregation, sharecropping and other things AGAINST black people post slavery? You think things were hunky dory after slavery legally ended? Things didn't end for black folks post slavery. What about all the towns that were destroyed (Rosewood, Oscarville, Black Wall Street... The area that became Central Park in NYC) because white people didn't want "uppity negroes" to prosper?

There is SO MUCH more to American history and it's treatment of black people than just Chattel Slavery

You're kind of proving my point here about American baggage; black people in the Americas have had a long arduous and painful history, but so have others all over the world. Why would the rest of the world give special accommodations to ALL black people just because some bad people did bad things to a certain group of black people in a distant land?

I've never been racist to people for their skin colour, so why was I covertly called 'racist' when I was against Yasuke being an AC: Shadows protagonist? I can flip the script and call the developers racist for not giving the Japanese people (and the rest of us AC fans) a native male protagonist just like every last entry. Are they racist against Asians? Is racism towards Asians less valid than racism towards black people?

Gentlemen, please continue this discussion in DMs if you wish, but this is venturing far off topic and into politics.