Walter Matthau
Member
FLOPS is this generation's version of the Bit Wars
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HW| does Xbox Series X really have 12 Teraflops ?
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And this man was laughed at by the ignoramus apparatus when he said this very thing 2.5 years ago.
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01011001
Banned
that game is completely broken.
that port was very clearly rushed out the door.
they even managed to wrongly align the light sources when RT shadows are enabled on Xbox...
they literally managed to not have VRR working in the 2 modes that are meant to be used with VRR displays...
like... that port is broken beyond belief
you can stand still and look straight up into the sky, and it will have drops below the SX's VRR window at 120hz, and half a second later it will be at 90fps, then back down to 20, back up to 70 etc.
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crackajack
Member
Cloud computing will fix everything anytime soon. /jk
I guess the ~2TF difference will be somewhat visible later in the gen, at least with Xbox exclusives- similar to Cell games starting to shine rather late in the PS3 gen-, but it will be way less obvious than PS4 vs Xbone. For now we probably have a lot of engines and games that are still not really optimised to the maximumon of either console and we sort of get brute force enhancements of PS4Bone games.
I guess the ~2TF difference will be somewhat visible later in the gen, at least with Xbox exclusives- similar to Cell games starting to shine rather late in the PS3 gen-, but it will be way less obvious than PS4 vs Xbone. For now we probably have a lot of engines and games that are still not really optimised to the maximumon of either console and we sort of get brute force enhancements of PS4Bone games.
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LordOfChaos
Member
You should understand this well - Tflops are nothing but a paper calculation on the GPUs execution hardware x clock speed. They do not denote final performance or any bottlenecks along the way.
You can check this yourself, it's shader cores 3328 * 2 ops per core per clock (this is just how it works) * the GPU clock of 1825 MHz = 12.15 TFLOPS of single precision FP32
So yes, it does really have 12 Tflops, but this isn't telling you if there's a limit on memory bandwidth, pixel fillrate, internal chip constraints like caches to CU groups, etc etc.
They're not devoting 2Tflops to the UI lol. Most gamers wank Tflops too much as an end all of performance and don't try to understand beyond this, like for instance the higher clock speed on the PS5 GPU does in fact lead to it having a higher pixel rate and some other mixed wins, all the onboard GPU caches are also clocked as much higher.
AMD Xbox Series X GPU Specs
AMD Scarlett, 1825 MHz, 3328 Cores, 208 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 10240 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 320 bit
AMD Playstation 5 GPU Specs
AMD Oberon, 2233 MHz, 2304 Cores, 144 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 256 bit
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Jimmyisback
Banned
Xbox series x is the most powerful console this Gen op. We had like 4 1000 page threads on it. Where have your been?
Topher
Identifies as young
Hey.....I like that wild ass abstraction, thank you very much.
Seriously though.....I know you don't care for C#. You've said as much in the past. But yeah, that's just the language I've used for over 20 years now so it's just what I do. Also, the shops I've worked in are pretty much 100% Microsoft. Window servers, SQL Server databases, etc. .Net works really well in an environment like that. If I were in a shop using Oracle or MySQL and Linux then I'd use something else. To me: right tool for the job. But also I have to consider the fact that Microsoft will be supporting C# for many years to come and I have no problem hiring other C# devs. Those are key considerations from a business standpoint.And I'm just a Microsoft fanboy. Doesn't everyone know that?
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
No my point is that you are getting payed much less per line of code, than someone who jumps on these new langs. But respect, if you stick to it for 20 years, I am sure, you are making enough to not care : ) Also I love MySQL, fuck that NoSQL nonsense.Hey.....I like that wild ass abstraction, thank you very much.
And I'm just a Microsoft fanboy. Doesn't everyone know that?
Topher
Identifies as young
I've no complaints about my pay. lol.....one of my devs suggested using mongo db a few weeks ago.
Me:
Dick Jones
Gold Member
That's not really helping the case if Sony's significantly lesser FLOPS machine is either on par or slightly ahead on third party games.
The flops argument was always stupid. It always depends on the end product. Nice to see certain other benefits like the SSD and Dualsense [imo] but it's the games that matter most.
We've heard the Switch is 2 Wii U's sellotaped together
The Wii is 2 Gamecubes sellotaped together
It never mattered the machine, the Switch is the weakest by far but it have over 120m sales compared to PS5 and Xbox Series. The new Zelda could be easily run on the PS5 or Xbox but it's final product, the game, is what matters most and not the power of the machine itself. It would help to be more powerful but that will come in time
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Max for logs, otherwise GTFOI've no complaints about my pay. lol.....one of my devs suggested using mongo db a few weeks ago.
Me:
Lysandros
Member
For this to happen XSX has to perform better and better with each day passing comparatively, you know like a rising stock, like PS3 did back in the day. The trend of these past months seems to show quite the opposite however. We might as well end up with PS5 being in (even) better shape at later generation. By the way +1.87 TF ≠ CELL at all.
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AGRacing
Member
THANK YOU.
It's every damn day in here with the f'ing teraflops!!!
We have people in here who even compare them between totally different architectures...
I say it often.... the One X marketing gets a GOLD medal for all of this . They started it all with the '6TF One X" stuff.
Puscifer
Member
If Tflops were that important you'd buy a PC and get all the Tflops you could ever hope for and then some. This weird desperation to try and prove your console is better than another is bizarre, you don't get a console to be on the bleeding edge the same way you don't buy a Honda Civic to race in F1
Riky
$MSFT
Forza is an Xbox console exclusive, that's always where you see hardware being pushed. 4k 60fps with in game RT is a big result considering we've seen sub 720p games recently on next gen consoles. Also the only UE5 game out so far in Fortnite performs really well on Series X.
But I agree specs in themselves don't make great games.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Wait until someone is going to want those "vector dbs", that's something else. That's something else which ChatGPT and other networks are using.
Glad that I was promoted to a Mac-port guy and simply could stop doing these client based gigs, which wasn't too profitable and it brought a ton of issues.
TheRedRiders
Member
It just shows how ignorant Digital Foundry can be sometimes, especially when they're comparing performance of the consoles and PC GPUs. Good old Richard "The Teraflop Differential" Leadbetter.
Double the teraflops never translates into double the render performance, this has always been true for consoles and PC GPUs.
Double the teraflops never translates into double the render performance, this has always been true for consoles and PC GPUs.
GHG
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Oh, I can't not wait for it to launch with tech breakdowns. My bet is on "4K" with all the bells and whistles and not 4K.
Kilau
Member
*With VRS
Crispy Gamer
Member
Digital foundry have failed us this generation we've had enough software come out that they should make a "state of current gen" video. It's obvious by now that both of these consoles have strengths and weaknesses but I remember a lot of FUD around Sony's decision to use variable clocks and how Microsoft's fixed clocks and 12 TF would result in a consistent performance win by Microsoft's machine and this was stated by DF themselves so they owe everyone a video explaining what's happening I mean don't they talk to devs? If Sony's machine was 12 TF, with the same variable clock set up and other customizations they implemented, how much of a theoretical advantage would it have if any? These are questions I would like to see explored I'm hoping Microsoft release a mid-gen refresh along with Sony at around the same TF so we can get answers because I have a feeling Sony's not changing its set up they might have found an efficient way to get more performance out of a console.
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
Stop reanimate this 12 Terraflops cat already...its dead....dead i tell you
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They're not going to bite the hand that feeds them in an honest way.
I know it's getting late in the generation but really we haven't seen what Series X can really do because of low sales & the software needing to be backed up by Xbox One & PC user base .
Who is willing to put all their eggs in Series X basket when it's 10 million owners at the most now & a lot of people will just play the game on Gamepass.
Who is willing to put all their eggs in Series X basket when it's 10 million owners at the most now & a lot of people will just play the game on Gamepass.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
The one thing that makes me not take DF as seriously as I would otherwise have done is actually down to this.
I feel they are the one outlet I would have expected to not buy or feed into the whole TF nonsense, I feel there was no excuse for them to do that on their day job when hobbyist posters here already knew better. But they did. And what shocks me, is that they seem to still be doing it to this day. Saying stuff like `what is wrong` when what they should be saying is `this is the X or Y on this platform showing its own strengths`.
like how many times does something have to get it wrong before the fact that something else gets it right is considered a feature and not just luck?
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Lysandros
Member
DF were at the very core of PS5 hardware misunformation campaign, they won't/can not do an obvious 180 degree now, they are still at d.c state more or less. Sorry but i had to say this bluntly at this time. Besides, no one really needs them to gain some basic knowledge about current console architectures. They are still 'seemingly' stuck at "bigger GPU" stage, let them continue their act.
TheRedRiders
Member
Mr.Phoenix
Member
We haven't seen what the PS5 can really do either.
I know but this thread is about Xbox
Thirty7ven
Banned
Yeah let’s wait before we declare facts on that one. So far Xbox game studios are behind in RT implementation, of Sony and third parties.
Riky
$MSFT
Nice to have hardware support for it so we can hit that 4k 60fps with RT.
Puscifer
Member
I think a lot of it just has to do with direct X IMO, something about it's API just isn't working anymore. What I find bizarre is that Vulkan is eliminating so many of these issues over on linux without any of the directstorage or "low level" coding non-sense of DX12, your hardware is actually being used more efficiently on a platform that wasn't even designed for gaming and PS5 is performing better and that should be a HUGE wakeup call that something is so wrong
Here's just an example.
TLOU PT 1 on Linux, doesn't exhibit the issues on Windows
Returnal, 1% lows keep the game above 60fps with VK3D 2.8 the latest version, not exactly something write home about buutttt if high frame rate gaming is your thing staying above 60 is what you want
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Horseganador
Member
In the end, Cerny and other developers who said the same thing were absolutely right, but then it was only a reason for ridicule and even portals like DF helped with it (there were even doubts about hardware RT on PS5... see it now on Ghostwire tokyo better than on Xbox xDD) this was 2020 in the forums... now it's time to pick up the cable when PS5 has shut up.
You do understand what VRS is right? It's basically a smarter "checkerboard rendering" but using it in places where you are least likely to notice like Foveated rendering .
It should come with a * like checkerboard rendering because color propagation is still happening just not full screen
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I actually remember every one of thoseIn the end, Cerny and other developers who said the same thing were absolutely right, but then it was only a reason for ridicule and even portals like DF helped with it (there were even doubts about hardware RT on PS5... see it now on Ghostwire tokyo better than on Xbox xDD) this was 2020 in the forums... now it's time to pick up the cable when PS5 has shut up.
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mansoor1980
Member
In the end, Cerny and other developers who said the same thing were absolutely right, but then it was only a reason for ridicule and even portals like DF helped with it (there were even doubts about hardware RT on PS5... see it now on Ghostwire tokyo better than on Xbox xDD) this was 2020 in the forums... now it's time to pick up the cable when PS5 has shut up.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I remember at least 90% of those "born in the discords PR" quotes on here.In the end, Cerny and other developers who said the same thing were absolutely right, but then it was only a reason for ridicule and even portals like DF helped with it (there were even doubts about hardware RT on PS5... see it now on Ghostwire tokyo better than on Xbox xDD) this was 2020 in the forums... now it's time to pick up the cable when PS5 has shut up.
Riky
$MSFT
I know exactly what it is, trust me. We saw the results in Doom Eternal pretty clearly and the comments by id a pretty respected developer were very clear also.
Now we're getting 4k 60fps with in game RT, so some smart hardware choices were made.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
In the end, Cerny and other developers who said the same thing were absolutely right, but then it was only a reason for ridicule and even portals like DF helped with it (there were even doubts about hardware RT on PS5... see it now on Ghostwire tokyo better than on Xbox xDD) this was 2020 in the forums... now it's time to pick up the cable when PS5 has shut up.
Had forgotten the bs about RE8 Village. Xbox fanboys are built different.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They need to be smart and make said hardware appealing again.
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MadchesterManc
Member
Fun fact: A Vega64 has more tflops than a Series X
2020 GAF was so much fun to read
In the end, Cerny and other developers who said the same thing were absolutely right, but then it was only a reason for ridicule and even portals like DF helped with it (there were even doubts about hardware RT on PS5... see it now on Ghostwire tokyo better than on Xbox xDD) this was 2020 in the forums... now it's time to pick up the cable when PS5 has shut up.
2020 GAF was so much fun to read
Ps5ProFoSho
Member
Series S holding it all back