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I decided to get an older CPU for my new build.

nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
It's the i5 12400.

There are a lot of reasons that make this particular CPU my only choice:

- I do a lot of emulation. Intel CPUs traditionally perform better on emulation and AFAIK, they still do.
- 13th and 14th gen Intel CPUs suck. So the last good gen was the 12th.
- I don't want to wait any longer (i'm still on i5 4670). Intel's next CPUs will change drastically so it will be like the first generation of a new thing. I don't trust 1st generation things, especially from intel.
- I hate Intel's E cores design. The i5 12400 is still the most powerful Intel CPU (and the last i5) that doesn't have them. Besides, i'm keeping Windows 10 so i won't have the better scheduling of 11.
- It's one of the greatest values right now. You pay like 1/5th of the price of the most powerful CPUs and you get more than half of their performance.
- I like efficient CPUs that don't consume a ton of power. This one seems to be one of the most efficient and the easiest to cool.
- Makes a good balance with a RTX 3060 or a 5060 (if it doesn't suck). Can probably drive a 4070 without bottleneck. I can't afford a bigger GPU either way.

Do you agree with my reasoning? Any other advice that may change my mind?
 
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O

owandeseis

Member
Pretty solid CPU for 100€, perfect with a 3060 for example.

With a 4070 it might struggle in some games and in the future, but framegen can help in these cases too.
 
CompleteGlobalSaturation

CompleteGlobalSaturation

Gold Member
StereoVsn said:
How much do 5800x3d and 5700x3d go for now days?

Your CPU choice is pretty solid, but if you want to do say PS3 emulation, having 8 cores would help. Plus it would be a bit more future proof as hopefully a 5060 would be a bit better than current 4070.
Click to expand...
This would be my choice for an older CPU that is capable of keeping pace with the 'giants'.

I think the 5800X3D is end of life however - maybe eBay.
 
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nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
StereoVsn said:
How much do 5800x3d and 5700x3d go for now days?

Your CPU choice is pretty solid, but if you want to do say PS3 emulation, having 8 cores would help. Plus it would be a bit more future proof as hopefully a 5060 would be a bit better than current 4070.
Click to expand...
8-P cores would help yes. But the extra cores on Intel CPUs are E-cores, unless we are talking about the highest end. E-cores slow down some emulators to the point where users just disable them. So why buy them if i'm going to disable them anyway?
 
StereoVsn

StereoVsn

Member
nkarafo said:
8-P cores would help yes. But the extra cores on Intel CPUs are E-cores, unless we are talking about the highest end. E-cores slow down some emulators to the point where users just disable them. So why buy them if i'm going to disable them anyway?
Click to expand...
That’s why you should consider AMD 5000x3D series CPUs. Plus realistically speaking you will want to upgrade to Win 11 in a year anyway as MS is going to stop producing security patches for Win10.
 
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nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
StereoVsn said:
That’s why you should consider AMD 5000x3D series CPUs. Plus realistically speaking you will want to upgrade to Win 11 in a year anyway as MS is going to stop producing security patches for Win10.
Click to expand...
The 12400 is probably faster in emulators that don't use more than 1 or 2 cores, which is the vast majority of them. Also, i'll be fine with 10. Games will still support it even after the security patches stop. I was holding on Windows 7 for at least 2 or 3 years after support stopped. I don't use the PC for any sensitive work and i keep 2 backups for all my important files.

I would go to windows 11 if there is a major improvement in game performance at the OS level though.
 
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StereoVsn

StereoVsn

Member
nkarafo said:
The 12400 is probably faster in emulators that don't use more than 1 or 2 cores, which is the vast majority of them. Also, i'll be fine with 10. Games will still support it even after the security patches stop. I was holding on Windows 7 for at least 2 or 3 years after support stopped. I don't use the PC for any sensitive work and i keep 2 backups for all my important files.

I would go to windows 11 if there is a major improvement in game performance at the OS level though.
Click to expand...
It’s a fine choice on 12400 then. As far as OS goes, I would get apprehensive as hell if I had an unsupported OS connected to Internet and not air gapped, lol.
 
winjer

winjer

Gold Member
Why go to a platform that is already dead?
You have to change motherboard and memory, so why not go for something a bit more future proof.
Get an AM5 motherboard and a 7600X. It's faster than a 12400, even for emulation.
And whenever you feel like it, drop an X3D and get a massive boost to performance. And consider that AM5 will also get Zen6, so you can upgrade a few years from now, without having to change the whole PC again.

emulation-ps3.png
emulation-switch.png
 
smbu2000

smbu2000

Member
Intel 12th gen does have issues with the socket causing the heatpreader to bend which results in collers having uneven contact with the cpu which leads to higher than usual temperatures. That’s why many people ended up removing their socket clamp and installing a contact frame (like thermal grizzly, thermalright, etc.)

Intel solved that issue with with 13th/14th gen, but those obviously have other issues.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/t...educes-alder-lake-temps-by-10-degrees-celsius

I picked up a thermalright contact frame when I previously used a 12th gen/z690 combo. I thought about moving to 13th gen to avoid that 12th gen issue, but I ended up switching over to Ryzen 7000 when the 3d parts released. Looks like I dodged Intels 13/14th gen issues.
 
PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
nkarafo said:
It's the i5 12400.

There are a lot of reasons that make this particular CPU my only choice:

- I do a lot of emulation. Intel CPUs traditionally perform better on emulation and AFAIK, they still do.
- 13th and 14th gen Intel CPUs suck. So the last good gen was the 12th.
- I don't want to wait any longer (i'm still on i5 4670). Intel's next CPUs will change drastically so it will be like the first generation of a new thing. I don't trust 1st generation things, especially from intel.
- I hate Intel's E cores design. The i5 12400 is still the most powerful Intel CPU (and the last i5) that doesn't have them. Besides, i'm keeping Windows 10 so i won't have the better scheduling of 11.
- It's one of the greatest values right now. You pay like 1/5th of the price of the most powerful CPUs and you get more than half of their performance.
- I like efficient CPUs that don't consume a ton of power. This one seems to be one of the most efficient and the easiest to cool.
- Makes a good balance with a RTX 3060 or a 5060 (if it doesn't suck). Can probably drive a 4070 without bottleneck. I can't afford a bigger GPU either way.

Do you agree with my reasoning? Any other advice that may change my mind?
Click to expand...
Which motherboard chipset did you opt for? And did you go with the lowest latency DDR4 RAM or get drawn to high clocks that suite CPUs with larger cache arrangements?

It was the only chip two of my nephews could afford for their budget gaming PCs and they definitely couldn't afford a Z chipset mobo for overclocking to partner with it, but once they got lowest latency RAM and twin sticks for dual channel memory mode and Win 10 pro installed it seemed like a good value option.

For emulating with just one or two cores you'll probably find setting the AVX multiplier in the bios to a low value so it caps AVX at 1600Mhz on all cores to leave TDP headroom for the boost clock to stay closer to 4.4Ghz single core than the all core 2.5Ghz - assuming you don't have a z chipset mobo.

My other nephew's more expensive build has the 12600K - with a z chipset mobo - and as expect for that price difference it is a far better performer given the 1.2Ghz extra base clock per P-core - I think you can even buy aftermarket delided liquid metal modified versions that clock amazingly compared to stock.
 
Last edited:
nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
winjer said:
Why go to a platform that is already dead?
You have to change motherboard and memory, so why not go for something a bit more future proof.
Get an AM5 motherboard and a 7600X. It's faster than a 12400, even for emulation.
And whenever you feel like it, drop an X3D and get a massive boost to performance. And consider that AM5 will also get Zen6, so you can upgrade a few years from now, without having to change the whole PC again.
Click to expand...
The 7600X is 80 euros more expensive. I also never keep the motherboard for every new build, i always get a new one. It's not like i'm upgrading every year, my current build lasted me 10 years, lol. Though i'm not planning to keep the new one that long but even in 4-5 years i will need a new motherboard regardless.


PaintTinJr said:
Which motherboard chipset did you opt for? And did you go with the lowest latency DDR4 RAM or get drawn to high clocks that suite CPUs with larger cache arrangements?
Click to expand...
I want to get the Gigabyte Z790 UD AX motherboard. Mostly because it has a ton of storage ports, which i need as a data hoarder. It also supports DDR5 RAM, which i prefer since the price difference with DDR4 is minimal. I went for 6000mhz and 30 CAS latency which seems very good for that speed.

The RAM is the most expensive part for this build (i got 2 x 32GB sticks) and it's probably overkill but i will use the same exact modules on my next build in 4 or 5 years (64GB will still be plenty then in case i won't be able to find more of the same modules). I will also have plenty of space to use as RAMDisk, which is awesome (now i only have 16GB so i can't use too much, maybe 4GB max).

Basically, for my next build i will only have to buy a new Motherboard and CPU since i will also get a new PSU before this year ends.
 
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Gp1

Gp1

Member
The 12400 can power you through this entire generation without hassle.
And its one if the most efficient choices for an RCPS3/XENIA/Riujinx. Even on my shit hole i can buy one for close to 100 USD, which isn't the price that they are selling a 7600.

As some one said, stick a 4070/7800 level gpu on it and you have a solid build for the entire generation.
 
Last edited:
nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
smbu2000 said:
Intel 12th gen does have issues with the socket causing the heatpreader to bend which results in collers having uneven contact with the cpu which leads to higher than usual temperatures. That’s why many people ended up removing their socket clamp and installing a contact frame (like thermal grizzly, thermalright, etc.)

Intel solved that issue with with 13th/14th gen, but those obviously have other issues.
Click to expand...

The motherboard i'm getting is basically 13th gen (Z790) and i read that they have improved on the issue? Is that right though?
 
W

welshrat

Member
winjer said:
Why go to a platform that is already dead?
You have to change motherboard and memory, so why not go for something a bit more future proof.
Get an AM5 motherboard and a 7600X. It's faster than a 12400, even for emulation.
And whenever you feel like it, drop an X3D and get a massive boost to performance. And consider that AM5 will also get Zen6, so you can upgrade a few years from now, without having to change the whole PC again.

emulation-ps3.png
emulation-switch.png
Click to expand...
This would be my choice. I really wouldn't want to buy a cpu that limits os choices. As much as you say it doesn't matter now you have no idea how you will feel 12 months from now. Honestly these AMD CPUs will blister through emulation. Sticking with Intel right now is not a wise choice unless you risk their new CPUs
 
Last edited:
winjer

winjer

Gold Member
nkarafo said:
The 7600X is 80 euros more expensive. I also never keep the motherboard for every new build, i always get a new one. It's not like i'm upgrading every year, my current build lasted me 10 years, lol. Though i'm not planning to keep the new one that long but even in 4-5 years i will need a new motherboard regardless.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's more expensive. But you get better performance now.
And the possibility of changing to a better, newer CPU, at any time, without having to change the whole system.
Imagine 4-5 years from now, you can just put in a Zen6 X3D CPU and drastically increase performance. No need to change memory or motherboard.
 
Codeblew

Codeblew

Member
winjer said:
Yes, it's more expensive. But you get better performance now.
And the possibility of changing to a better, newer CPU, at any time, without having to change the whole system.
Imagine 4-5 years from now, you can just put in a Zen6 X3D CPU and drastically increase performance. No need to change memory or motherboard.
Click to expand...
Some people just seem to be stuck with certain companies and don't do what is in their own best interest.
 
Shadowstar39

Shadowstar39

Member
nkarafo said:
It's the i5 12400.

There are a lot of reasons that make this particular CPU my only choice:

- I do a lot of emulation. Intel CPUs traditionally perform better on emulation and AFAIK, they still do.
- 13th and 14th gen Intel CPUs suck. So the last good gen was the 12th.
- I don't want to wait any longer (i'm still on i5 4670). Intel's next CPUs will change drastically so it will be like the first generation of a new thing. I don't trust 1st generation things, especially from intel.
- I hate Intel's E cores design. The i5 12400 is still the most powerful Intel CPU (and the last i5) that doesn't have them. Besides, i'm keeping Windows 10 so i won't have the better scheduling of 11.
- It's one of the greatest values right now. You pay like 1/5th of the price of the most powerful CPUs and you get more than half of their performance.
- I like efficient CPUs that don't consume a ton of power. This one seems to be one of the most efficient and the easiest to cool.
- Makes a good balance with a RTX 3060 or a 5060 (if it doesn't suck). Can probably drive a 4070 without bottleneck. I can't afford a bigger GPU either way.

Do you agree with my reasoning? Any other advice that may change my mind?
Click to expand...
How many cores is that? What top speed?
Faster than a rizen 3600?
Did you get a new mobo and ram or re-use?

I am on amd 3600 and have had constant daily irq_less than zero, and other weird errors for 2 years now. Some times I will get a few days of no blue screen crashes, and it usually doesn't happen when gaming, just idling or web browsing.
I have a 3060ti which is great, as I only have 1080p so its overkill anything faster and too much money. I used to spend $200 for a xx60 series or a mid end high teir card in the 2000s (8800gts, 6800, geforce3, voodoo5, etc..) No reason to go high end with these upper mid teir cards.

I know if I buy an intel cpu (never had issues with them), it will require a new mobo, maybe it can re-use my 3600 rated ddr4.

Seems like a wise decision to me.
 
Shadowstar39

Shadowstar39

Member
Bojanglez said:
Loe86M9.gif


Surely this isn't thread worthy? There must be some kind of PC building megathread?
Click to expand...
You can ignore it you know. This place would be a ghost town without actual discussion. Shit hides in "mega threads". Its comments like this that make me 2nd guess posting any new thread, so I don't. Kinda sucks though. I'd love to discuss old crpgs, or roguelikes.
 
N

Nvzman

Member
StereoVsn said:
How much do 5800x3d and 5700x3d go for now days?

Your CPU choice is pretty solid, but if you want to do say PS3 emulation, having 8 cores would help. Plus it would be a bit more future proof as hopefully a 5060 would be a bit better than current 4070.
Click to expand...
Ehh as much as I like the 5700/5800x3D, they are basically the max end of AM4 and there's absolutely nothing better you can upgrade to, as it's effectively a dead end in the platform. LGA1700 is a better call imo in that you can go DDR5 and still have the option to upgrade to Raptor Lake (which is safe now with the microcode updates). 14th gen is a waste but 13th gen is not bad at all, my 13700k has been a pleasant beast and absolutely rocks in performance even with my air cooling setup at decent temps. I didn't have any instability issues but I updated to the newest microcode to be safe. Imo at this point in the game, if you are building with a new motherboard, go AM5 or stick with Intel LGA1700 for budget builds, the 12100 and 12400 are both dirt cheap at this point and excellent performers still.
 
marquimvfs

marquimvfs

Member
nkarafo said:
The 7600X is 80 euros more expensive.
Click to expand...
I get it, but by the price difference also brings performance difference. So it's not that you will be paying more for the same.
nkarafo said:
I also never keep the motherboard for every new build, i always get a new one. It's not like i'm upgrading every year, my current build lasted me 10 years, lol. Though i'm not planning to keep the new one that long but even in 4-5 years i will need a new motherboard regardless.
Click to expand...
Well, in 4 years, AM5 will probably will still fit your upgrade need, given that you're willing to buy an Intel 12th gen, it looks that you don't care about the processor's age, just the performance level. In 4 to 5 years, there will still be newer and beefier AM5s that will still be bang for the buck. Just look at AM4, we had CPUs launching for it this very year.

Meaning, you could spend some more on the platform now, get more performance for your build and also a more upgradeable platform. Heck, just the fact that it isn't a dead platform is a plus.
 
Last edited:
Shadowstar39

Shadowstar39

Member
welshrat said:
This would be my choice. I really wouldn't want to buy a cpu that limits os choices. As much as you say it doesn't matter now you have no idea how you will feel 12 months from now. Honestly these AMD CPUs will blister through emulation. Sticking with Intel right now is not a wise choice unless you risk their new CPUs
Click to expand...
How good are their cpus though? Are they reliable? Speed isn't my concern, I game on 1080p and mostly strategy, rpg, boomer shooters, roguelikes etc...
Stability and heat are my main concerns. I don't want my office becoming an oven and I am sick of bsods.

Last two amd products I owned failed on me (and it looks like others too based on forum posts) my old Saphire 7870 gpu lasted 1 year and conked out with line artifacts (was a good card until then). MY ryzen 5 3600 has been great performance wise but it bsods (all signs and forum uploading of dumps, mem tests, etc.. point to the cpu) Apparently some of the first run zen 2 ryzen 3xxxx series cpus were shit. They even had to do a separate cpu power fix for windows. I shouldn't and never had issues with any other processor, having random daily bsod when idling.
 
BlackTron

BlackTron

Member
He may well know his next machine will probably be AMD and just wants Intel's last known good one first. Personally when I put a heatsink on a CPU I never intend to take it off again, it's married to the motherboard...when I want a new CPU it can become a server, home theater or hand me down PC.
 
W

welshrat

Member
Shadowstar39 said:
How good are their cpus though? Are they reliable? Speed isn't my concern, I game on 1080p and mostly strategy, rpg, boomer shooters, roguelikes etc...
Stability and heat are my main concerns. I don't want my office becoming an oven and I am sick of bsods.

Last two amd products I owned failed on me (and it looks like others too based on forum posts) my old Saphire 7870 gpu lasted 1 year and conked out with line artifacts (was a good card until then). MY ryzen 5 3600 has been great performance wise but it bsods (all signs and forum uploading of dumps, mem tests, etc.. point to the cpu) Apparently some of the first run zen 2 ryzen 3xxxx series cpus were shit. They even had to do a separate cpu power fix for windows. I shouldn't and never had issues with any other processor, having random daily bsod when idling.
Click to expand...
I switched from Intel 6 years ago and have had Ryzen 2000, 3000 and currently 5000 and have been faultless. I use my PC daily as am a software dev and having those 12 cores is brilliant for running vms etc. it doubles as a great gaming PC. Both my lads run Ryzen as well and have zero issues. For what it's worth I have also been running Radeon cards in the house as I knew vram was always going to be an issue with Nvidia cards (couldn't afford 4090 or 4080), also zero problems with 3 PCs in the house.

I am hardware agnostic and have no bias, I have multiple macs (required for iOS dev), unix machines etc, I really don't care and I can say with a certainty that AMD make good products. Building a Ryzen 9000 early next year when the x3d chips arrive.
 
Last edited:
D

dave_d

Member
nkarafo said:
It's the i5 12400.

There are a lot of reasons that make this particular CPU my only choice:

- I do a lot of emulation. Intel CPUs traditionally perform better on emulation and AFAIK, they still do.
- 13th and 14th gen Intel CPUs suck. So the last good gen was the 12th.
- I don't want to wait any longer (i'm still on i5 4670). Intel's next CPUs will change drastically so it will be like the first generation of a new thing. I don't trust 1st generation things, especially from intel.
- I hate Intel's E cores design. The i5 12400 is still the most powerful Intel CPU (and the last i5) that doesn't have them. Besides, i'm keeping Windows 10 so i won't have the better scheduling of 11.
- It's one of the greatest values right now. You pay like 1/5th of the price of the most powerful CPUs and you get more than half of their performance.
- I like efficient CPUs that don't consume a ton of power. This one seems to be one of the most efficient and the easiest to cool.
- Makes a good balance with a RTX 3060 or a 5060 (if it doesn't suck). Can probably drive a 4070 without bottleneck. I can't afford a bigger GPU either way.

Do you agree with my reasoning? Any other advice that may change my mind?
Click to expand...
Wait, does it still have AVX512? (It still had that right?) If you're doing PS3 emulation isn't that a good thing?

Edit - Forget what I said, I should have read above it doesn't have AVX512. That being said depends how cheap you got everything. (If you got a good deal on a motherboard and CPU it could be a solid system.)
 
Last edited:
G

GloveSlap

Member
StereoVsn said:
How much do 5800x3d and 5700x3d go for now days?

Your CPU choice is pretty solid, but if you want to do say PS3 emulation, having 8 cores would help. Plus it would be a bit more future proof as hopefully a 5060 would be a bit better than current 4070.
Click to expand...
I just imported a 5700x3d from Aliexpress for a whopping $125 after a $10 off coupon. It takes a little bit to arrive, but its legit and an absolute steal. I think the seller is SCZPU.
 
marquimvfs

marquimvfs

Member
Shadowstar39 said:
How good are their cpus though? Are they reliable?
Click to expand...
Yes, pretty good and reliable. I've assembled myself hundreds of AMD machines in the last 4 years. Nothing out of ordinary and the fault rate is lower than Intel post 10th gen.

Also, you mentioned that heat is a concern, Intel is on the fault in that department since the dawn of Zen architecture. Most of the systems I put together go along very well with just the boxed cooler, that is unconceivable with most Intel systems that aren't the extremely low end ones beyond 9th gen.

If you need some help troubleshooting your system, feel free to reach out over PMs.
 
Last edited:
Paulistano

Paulistano

Member
nkarafo said:
It's the i5 12400.

There are a lot of reasons that make this particular CPU my only choice:

- I do a lot of emulation. Intel CPUs traditionally perform better on emulation and AFAIK, they still do.
- 13th and 14th gen Intel CPUs suck. So the last good gen was the 12th.
- I don't want to wait any longer (i'm still on i5 4670). Intel's next CPUs will change drastically so it will be like the first generation of a new thing. I don't trust 1st generation things, especially from intel.
- I hate Intel's E cores design. The i5 12400 is still the most powerful Intel CPU (and the last i5) that doesn't have them. Besides, i'm keeping Windows 10 so i won't have the better scheduling of 11.
- It's one of the greatest values right now. You pay like 1/5th of the price of the most powerful CPUs and you get more than half of their performance.
- I like efficient CPUs that don't consume a ton of power. This one seems to be one of the most efficient and the easiest to cool.
- Makes a good balance with a RTX 3060 or a 5060 (if it doesn't suck). Can probably drive a 4070 without bottleneck. I can't afford a bigger GPU either way.

Do you agree with my reasoning? Any other advice that may change my mind?
Click to expand...

Windows 10 has a severe performance hit on 12400 because it's the only Alder Lake without e-core I would update to windows 11 or get a 12600kf.
 
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