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[Moneal]

crowbrow Gender has been used as a synonymy for sex since at least the 1500s.

Ill quote myself from another thread. It has more details, just click through it.

the word gender has been used as a replacement for sex for about as long as the word has been used. People have only been trying to change it in the last 100 years.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

In the meantime let's make car and train mean the same thing. If we are going to make up synonyms out of thin air might as well go crazy.

Is ironic how those critizising the meaning of gender use as argument that this meaning is recent (1960s). But since gender has never meant biological sexes their so called "old" meaning is actually the recent made-up one...

The origin of "gender" as well as its recent use as an adjunct for "sex" has already been explained to you. You're just being pedantic, or stupid.

 

[crowbrow]

crowbrow Gender has been used as a synonymy for sex since at least the 1500s.

Ill quote myself from another thread. It has more details, just click through it.

Thank you! You're the first to provide actual etymological evidence here about it unlike the others. And yeah then I can see it was used since 15 century as a replacement for sex. Interestingly, it seems, the original meaning that comes from 1300 which refers to traits of a type of person can also be matched perfectly well with the current meaning if we Focus on cultural sexual traits.

 

[oagboghi2]

Thank you! You're the first to provide actual etymological evidence here about it unlike the others. And yeah then I can see it was used since 15 century as a replacement for sex. Interestingly, it seems, the original meaning that comes from 1300 which refers to traits of a type of person can also be matched perfectly well with the current meaning if we Focus on cultural sexual traits.

Do you also need evidence to figure out 2 + 2 = 4?

 

[Rya.Reisender]

Pretty sure every transman wants to be referred to as "he" and every transwoman wants to be referred to as "she".

I thought the "they" is only for people you don't know which gender they identify as yet. That's where the "Did you just assume my gender?" joke comes from.

I guess it's also useful for people who don't identify as either. Though don't be blinded by the SJW's. Not every non-binary person really cares about it THAT much.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

I don't have any problem with transgender people, but the "they"-crowd can really go fuck themselves.

 

[Kataploom]

Thanks to GAF I learned to respond to a situation where someone tells me "did you just asumed my gendered?" or "are you using gendered pronouns with me?".

I'll just tell them that I'm referring to their sex and not their gender and to get better informed

Just for that it'd worth it lmao

 

[crowbrow]

Do you also need evidence to figure out 2 + 2 = 4?

English is not my mother tongue nor have i ever lived in an english speaking country. It is reasonable for me to ask for language-related evidence when i have doubts on a term. Unless you expect people to born with that knowledge. Maybe you did though, shall i test you at spanish, portuguese or german?

Many people here complain all the time how unscientific and detached from reality SJWs are and then they flip out when people ask for actual evidence .

Anyways i appreciate that someone actually made the effort.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Certainly I'm not well-read on this topic, but on face value, "he" and "she" just seems like a polite way to distinguish between two biological categories, which is useful. So you're not saying "that one with a penis over there".

For Trans people, I understand the want to be referred to as the opposite of their sex since that's what they'd like to be (despite reality). I mean, if they were able to wish their preferred sexual organs and hormones replace their birth ones, they would, right?

What I truly am baffled by are the Ze's Zir's....and Theys. I mean...they? Really? What are you, royalty? Why isn't she and he good enough?

If you consider it all bollocks and it's just a bunch of attention whores, whoring for attention, then it'll make sense.

It's a fad. In my day you had goth kids, today you have gender benders. It's really quite simple.

 

[Gifmaker]

I don't entirely understand the concept/problem either. First of all, almost everything we deal with in our daily life is a "social construct", because we have been living in societies for thousands of years and literally constructed our daily live routine to accompany that. So.. d'uh?
Second, being a social construct is not inherently bad. Actually, I would say that with some exceptions, it's inherently good by default because we construct things to serve society, at least its vast majority. Those constructs are meant to make things easier for everyone to get along and to be in the same boat about things.
Third, I can somewhat understand if a person wants to be the different gender. Like, I cannot personally relate to that, but I kinda grasp if a man feels like they would be happier as a woman and vice versa. But if a person does not know which gender they identify with at all, why not make your own life easier by identifying with their biological sex? If you are having no other indications on what gender to feel like, then why not go with the most obvious and natural one?
Fourth. I have one basic problem with people rejecting their "assigned" gender role: if you, as a biological man, come out and say that you cannot identify and live up to all the norms that society assigns to your gender, and therefore you are partially or completely a female and not a male, then in turn that makes an implication about how to be a "real" man, you have to live up to all the male norms and stereotypes that society came up with. I, for one, cannot do that in each regard. Guess what, almost nobody on this planet lives up to all expectations and stereotypes of their gender. So, should I then feel less of a man about it? Because that is what's basically being implied when people feel the need to change their gender (and not their sex) because they feel like they don't align enough with the "social construct". So, if I can only live up to about 70% of male stereotypes and norms – does that make me 30% female? And if I only lived up to 49%, would that mean that I am actually a woman, because my identity is so fragile that I have to change it in order to live up to what other people think of me?! Hell no. For I know that I am 100% a man. Even if I am not the manliest man around, so what.

 

[GreyHorace]

Thankfully, the vast majority of trans people don't go into a rage when someone misgenders them. Usually it just causes them to feel incredibly self conscious and depressed for a while...and they may become more afraid to go out in public. Eventually, many become numb to unintentional misgendering out of survival.

I understand that and I do sympathise with what you and other transgender people go through, but only up to a point. I take issue when crazy people supportive of your cause go out of their way to try to ruin a man's reputation in public. Like what happened with Jordan Peterson, all because he objected to a Canadian Law punishing those who use the wrong pronouns.

 

[crowbrow]

I understand that and I do sympathise with what you and other transgender people go through, but only up to a point. I take issue when crazy people supportive of your cause go out of their way to try to ruin a man's reputation in public. Like what happened with Jordan Peterseon, all because he objected to a Canadian Law punishing those who use the wrong pronouns.

For what I've seen here I can attest that Ailynn is a very reasonable person and critical of such abuses of power too. She is one of those who everyone reasonable should be supporting.

 

[GreyHorace]

For what I've seen here I can attest that Ailynn is a very reasonable person and critical of such abuses of power too. She is one of those who everyone reasonable should be supporting.

Hey. Like I said, if she's a reasonable person then I've got no problem. And I do appreciate that she's able to give us insight into a subject not many of us are familiar with.

 

[Whitecrow]

That is an invention coming from people which IQ doesnt get hight enough to separate biology from feelings.

But if you ever see yourself in a conversation about that, better shut up than say that's BS.

 

[Dontero]

On the contrary, gender is basically the same than gender roles. Sex is merely the biological characteristics while gender involves roles, norms and other aspects that come from cultural influences.

Definition from the WHO:

""Gender refers to the socially constructed characteristics of women and men, such as norms, roles, and relationships of and between groups of women and men. It varies from society to society and can be changed.""

No such a thing as gender. There is only sex.
"Gender" is complete garbage talk.

Previously you had Man/Woman, Boar/Sow, Dog/Bitch, Bull/Cow. It was clear for everyone this means biology and nothing else. Then scientists decided to unify this mess into one nicely uniform package called female/male instead of giving each animal different name to classify its sex.

 

[crowbrow]

No such a thing as gender. There is only sex.
"Gender" is complete garbage talk.

Previously you had Man/Woman, Boar/Sow, Dog/Bitch, Bull/Cow. It was clear for everyone this means biology and nothing else. Then scientists decided to unify this mess into one nicely uniform package called female/male instead of giving each animal different name to classify its sex.

What about animals or organisms that only have one sex or that change sex or that have asexual reproduction. Gender is an useful concept to understand reality, nature barely ever works in black and white terms so to think it is simple is fantasy.

 

[Dontero]

What about animals or organisms that only have one sex or that change sex or that have asexual reproduction. Gender is an useful concept to understand reality, nature barely ever works in black and white terms so to think it is simple is fantasy.

?? I don't see how this has anything to do with gender. Animals don't wear clothes unless humans put them on.

 

[MilkyJoe]

On the contrary, gender is basically the same than gender roles. Sex is merely the biological characteristics while gender involves roles, norms and other aspects that come from cultural influences.

Definition from the WHO:

""Gender refers to the socially constructed characteristics of women and men, such as norms, roles, and relationships of and between groups of women and men. It varies from society to society and can be changed.""

Oxford dictionary still has the original meaning, granted it's version three as it seems even the OED appears to have been invaded by the woke

gen. Males or females viewed as a group; = sex n.1 1. Also: the property or fact of belonging to one of these groups.Originally extended from the grammatical use at sense 1 (sometimes humorously), as also in Anglo-Norman and Old French. In the 20th cent., as sex came increasingly to mean sexual intercourse (see sex n.1 4b), gender began to replace it (in early use euphemistically) as the usual word for the biological grouping of males and females. It is now often merged with or coloured by sense 3b.

And it's nice to see that clothing is still binary

 

[Rya.Reisender]

I don't entirely understand the concept/problem either. First of all, almost everything we deal with in our daily life is a "social construct", because we have been living in societies for thousands of years and literally constructed our daily live routine to accompany that. So.. d'uh?
Second, being a social construct is not inherently bad. Actually, I would say that with some exceptions, it's inherently good by default because we construct things to serve society, at least its vast majority. Those constructs are meant to make things easier for everyone to get along and to be in the same boat about things.
Third, I can somewhat understand if a person wants to be the different gender. Like, I cannot personally relate to that, but I kinda grasp if a man feels like they would be happier as a woman and vice versa. But if a person does not know which gender they identify with at all, why not make your own life easier by identifying with their biological sex? If you are having no other indications on what gender to feel like, then why not go with the most obvious and natural one?

It always depends on if it's a good or bad thing, but for non-binary people being treated according to your biological sex is bad.

I think it's easiest to understand if you put yourself into situation where you are judged for your sex in a way you're uncomfortable with. Like let's say, you are a man and like to be friends with women online. Yet you notice women had a lot of bad experiences with men online so even if you don't do anything wrong, they instantly distrust you. You may hate this. Now you may outright lie to them and say you're a woman and you notice, suddenly they act very differently to you. They treat you like you actually want them to. You feel happy. But if could also be that as long as people know your gender you don't like how they treat you and prefer how people are to you when they don't know your gender at all. And need that to feel happy.

In any case this whole gender thing is basically just a concept so people can "legally without lying" feel this happiness.

Then again, every non-binary person is different anyway. Some just hate their body, others just prefer the benefits of one gender over the other.

I mean you could also see it as some kind of protest against gender roles. When everybody would be treated 100% equally even when it comes to mating rituals, then there wasn't a reason to be non-binary for half the people.

 

[Gifmaker]

It always depends on if it's a good or bad thing, but for non-binary people being treated according to your biological sex is bad.

I think it's easiest to understand if you put yourself into situation where you are judged for your sex in a way you're uncomfortable with. Like let's say, you are a man and like to be friends with women online. Yet you notice women had a lot of bad experiences with men online so even if you don't do anything wrong, they instantly distrust you. You may hate this. Now you may outright lie to them and say you're a woman and you notice, suddenly they act very differently to you. They treat you like you actually want them to. You feel happy. But if could also be that as long as people know your gender you don't like how they treat you and prefer how people are to you when they don't know your gender at all. And need that to feel happy.

I get the desire to feel accepted and not judged over something you have little to no control over, but in the end, you're not being sincere, so how much happiness can there be achieved through that? Like, I am 1.79m tall. I would score better with women online if I went around and told everybody I was 1.90m. But since I am being dishonest, the truth is inevitably going to come out and when that happens, the lie will have done damage. So from a logical POV, I don't quite understand that approach. Lying to someone else in order to feel better about yourself is ultimately not different than lying to yourself in the first place, and that won't get you anywhere.

I mean you could also see it as some kind of protest against gender roles. When everybody would be treated 100% equally even when it comes to mating rituals, then there wasn't a reason to be non-binary for half the people.

I suspect that you are correct on that. But why be so up in arms about something that you would have a lot easier time just accepting, it seems so futile to me. Sometimes, I would also prefer to have the dating privileges of women (which there are plenty of). But I don't, and not accepting that is only going to drive me crazy.

I hope I don't come across as being overly negative towards the topic, I am rather confused about it all. It is a topic I would really like to know more about, but can only relate to so very little.

 

[Mihos]

Most of the people I meet that are gay or other don't talk about it other than the normal relationship stuff in passing conversation. They just want to avoid drama.

There are definitely some of the gender warriors out there who are just using it as an extension of their Munchausen syndrome for some imaginary online currency. They are usually easy to spot. They are the ones that want 'special' status and not equal status. They are also the ones that say crap like 'I would never want a male baby', or saying their 1 year old is transgender.

 

[V4skunk]

I got into an argument today with a gender confused leftist about gender!
They are brainwashed beyond belief, he started to get aggressive with me so i threatened to smash his face in, let's just say he shut up.

 

[Rya.Reisender]

you're not being sincere, so how much happiness can there be achieved through that?

You'd be surprised how much happiness you can achieve by not being sincere. Including not being sincere to yourself.

 

[Rya.Reisender]

Sorry, should have replied to this in one post.

I suspect that you are correct on that. But why be so up in arms about something that you would have a lot easier time just accepting, it seems so futile to me.

Well, generally speaking, if your life sucks, you can always just learn to accept it. But there are people who want to fight for a better world. A world where nobody has to struggle. Fighting can hurt and make your life even more miserable but in the long run you may be able to bring forth change and then it was worth it.

 

[Whitecrow]

You'd be surprised how much happiness you can achieve by not being sincere. Including not being sincere to yourself.

While I dont deny that, it is like covering everything under the carpet. Eventually all of it will pop out and you just to make you realize how miserable your life was.

 

[Ailynn]

I understand that and I do sympathise with what you and other transgender people go through, but only up to a point. I take issue when crazy people supportive of your cause go out of their way to try to ruin a man's reputation in public. Like what happened with Jordan Peterson, all because he objected to a Canadian Law punishing those who use the wrong pronouns.

For what I've seen here I can attest that Ailynn is a very reasonable person and critical of such abuses of power too. She is one of those who everyone reasonable should be supporting.

Hey. Like I said, if she's a reasonable person then I've got no problem. And I do appreciate that she's able to give us insight into a subject not many of us are familiar with.

Thank you so much! ❤

Oh, and absolutely...I cannot stand outrage culture, nor do I believe that language should be controlled by law. All these things do is cause more animosity, and I don't understand how some of these people cannot see that.

At the end of the day, when most people treat others with patience, understanding, respect, and kindness...showing an active sense of empathy...it is usually returned back to them. That has certainly been my experience, and I've gained support and opened hearts even with those in my life I was worried I would receive the most grief from.

Imagine that - Empathy and kindness working much better than anger and attempted thought control. Strange, right?

Apparently, it must seem a very strange concept for some. I feel bad for saying it, but I suspect it may come down to one's own level of emotional intelligence...as well as the inability to see the repercussions one's own behavior and actions toward others will have down the road.

 

[crowbrow]

Thank you so much! ❤

Oh, and absolutely...I cannot stand outrage culture, nor do I believe that language should be controlled by law. All these things do is cause more animosity, and I don't understand how some of these people cannot see that.

At the end of the day, when most people are treated with patience, understanding, respect, and kindness...showing an active sense of empathy...it is usually returned back to them. That has certainly been my experience, and I've gained support and opened hearts even with those in my life I was worried I would receive the most grief from.

Imagine that - Empathy and kindness working much better than anger and attempted thought control. Strange, right?

Apparently, it must seem a very strange concept for some. I feel bad for saying it, but I suspect it may come down to one's own level of emotional intelligence...as well as the inability to see the repercussions one's own behavior and actions toward others will have down the road.

Very well put!

 

[GreyHorace]

Thank you so much! ❤

Oh, and absolutely...I cannot stand outrage culture, nor do I believe that language should be controlled by law. All these things do is cause more animosity, and I don't understand how some of these people cannot see that.

At the end of the day, when most people treat others with patience, understanding, respect, and kindness...showing an active sense of empathy...it is usually returned back to them. That has certainly been my experience, and I've gained support and opened hearts even with those in my life I was worried I would receive the most grief from.

Imagine that - Empathy and kindness working much better than anger and attempted thought control. Strange, right?

Apparently, it must seem a very strange concept for some. I feel bad for saying it, but I suspect it may come down to one's own level of emotional intelligence...as well as the inability to see the repercussions one's own behavior and actions toward others will have down the road.

It's easy to get angry and vindictive when people are looking to ruin you. I'd argue it's part of being human.

But what you say is true. Showing kindness and empathy is a much more rewarding gesture in the long run. Just that... be careful who you show that side to. People could be looking to take advantage of such goodness of heart.

 

[Ailynn]

It's easy to get angry and vindictive when people are looking to ruin you. I'd argue it's part of being human.

But what you say is true. Showing kindness and empathy is a much more rewarding gesture in the long run. Just that... be careful who you show that side to. People could be looking to take advantage of such goodness of heart.

Thank you so very much, and yes...sadly, I have dealt with people more than a few times who have taken advantage of my kindness. I'm willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but I've been known to give people far too many chances even after they have caused me heartache multiple times.

I'm naive, I know...but still, I can't help but forgive people no matter how they may have treated me. I suppose I hold hope for change and a growth of compassion in even the most stubborn of hearts.

 

[ruvikx]

I don't have any problem with transgender people, but the "they"-crowd can really go fuck themselves.

Anyone who attempts to force the absolute majority to adopt bizarre, anti-biology definitions of themselves which transgress (pun intended) normalcy & the language itself (i.e. "they" when referring to an individual is grammatically incorrect), can certainly go fuck themselves.

We shouldn't allow weird little cultists with their weird way of life to dictate rules to the rest of humanity.

 

[SurprisedPikachu]

Thank you so very much, and yes...sadly, I have dealt with people more than a few times who have taken advantage of my kindness. I'm willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but I've been known to give people far too many chances even after they have caused me heartache multiple times.

I'm naive, I know...but still, I can't help but forgive people no matter how they may have treated me. I suppose I hold hope for change and a growth of compassion in even the most stubborn of hearts.

You're just too good, Ailynn . Very good heart, need more people with that.

 

[Ailynn]

You're just too good, Ailynn . Very good heart, need more people with that.

Aww - It's easy when God creates so many lovely people, like all of you!

 

[off duty ninja]

Aww - It's easy when God creates so many lovely people, like all of you!

Don't take this the wrong way but I often feel shitty after reading your posts. It's because you approach most topics with such a positive outlook and you tend to think the best of people. I've lost a lot of that over the years but I know that person is still in me because your posts remind me of him. You always make me want to be a better person. I just want you to know that.

 

[Yoboman]

My neighbour Bill has a nicer house and family than me. I feel like I was born to have a nice house and family, therefore I now identify as my neighbor Bill. Brb going to get my new house keys

 

[Ailynn]

Don't take this the wrong way but I often feel shitty after reading your posts. It's because you approach most topics with such a positive outlook and you tend to think the best of people. I've lost a lot of that over the years but I know that person is still in me because your posts remind me of him. You always make me want to be a better person. I just want you to know that.

Thank you so very much! Also, that part of you is on display pretty frequently from what I've seen. With so much negativity on display in the world, it's hard not to let it get to us and make us feel jaded sometimes. You're one of the good ones...don't worry!

 

[Whitecrow]

Thank you so very much, and yes...sadly, I have dealt with people more than a few times who have taken advantage of my kindness. I'm willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but I've been known to give people far too many chances even after they have caused me heartache multiple times.

I'm naive, I know...but still, I can't help but forgive people no matter how they may have treated me. I suppose I hold hope for change and a growth of compassion in even the most stubborn of hearts.

My take on this, and this is a total projection of the past myself, is that you (we) have fear of, lets say, our dark side. We are afraid of the "hate" we can get for not being as kind as people expect us to be, because being hated may feel too much unpleasant, or because we dont know how to deal with that... so is easier to deal with things we already know, even heartache, than taking risks on being hated.

Or either, we feel good when we know we are the side who behaved better. And yeah that's great. But the thing is, our health is taking small hits, one after another. And we cant let that stay forever.

Some times, when we make a step out of our comfort zone, we discover some things are not as bad as we thought.

I think the lesson that was more hard for me to learn, is that true friends, or good people, will stay with us even if we show more our inner feelings even if it seems like we are being assholes.
The people who leaves, is people who you dont need in your life.

And I dont know, maybe some of this is helpful to you, I was just thinking in loud voice. Cheers = )

 

[off duty ninja]

Thank you so very much! Also, that part of you is on display pretty frequently from what I've seen. With so much negativity on display in the world, it's hard not to let it get to us and make us feel jaded sometimes. You're one of the good ones...don't worry!

You’re right it is hard not to get jaded but it’s worth it to keep trying. Thanks for being so awesome!