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I don't understand why people hate Scarface
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Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
Its because Oliver Stone at one point was so good at writing entertaining bad guys, that tons of people miss the point, and hero worship these pieces of shit. People idolize Tony Montana, which is pretty fucked up. Same as so many people who went into finance admitted to idolizing Gordon Gekko. Seeing huge swathes of people miss the point can kind of sour one on something.
What hate, do you live under a rock? It's one of the most celebrated and acclaimed gangster movies of all time. If anything it's annoying how popular the movie is. Also haven't you ever watched MTV cribs, every celebrity had to show they owned a dvd copy of Scarface or they weren't legit.
dark_chris
Member
I've only met one person who didn't like Scarface. Other than that, everyone loves that.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's a THREE HOUR LONG, badly paced, poorly acted, over-the-top cartoon that nearly everyone who watched still misunderstood somehow.
There is also zero arc for Tony. Nothing about him as a person ever changes, up until he gets his chest removed.
If it were 90min long? Maybe. But its 3 hours of the same dull shit.
Moroder's score is pretty great, though. Can't fault that. And if it hadn't existed, hip hop would never have been the same.
for a 3 hour gangster epic to have it's major positives be musical in nature (one completely unintentionally) is not a great sign of filmic quality
Half and half
Member
"You tell your guys in Miami, your friend, it'd be a pleasure. I kill communists for fun. But for a green card, I'm gonna carve him up real nice."
Mr. B Natural
Member
There are plenty of gangster films that are both entertaining and not terribly stupid and derivative, so I never quite understood the love for Scarface. And it came out during an era of stupid movies with oversimplified plots and characters, so it doesn't even stand out in the crowd. If anything the movie was a warning of the style vs substance storytelling mindset that became modern filmmaking.
And yes, I'm not sure why the OP needed to explain the movie. It's a basic man-done-wrong anti-hero story. That's it, really. That's his character. That's the plot. 3 hours of film and that's it and I found it completely un-engaging and thus boring. The constant violence and swearing did not compensate for anything, instead it created one blur of a film that I forgot about after it was over.
Then there's the odd worship of the character and the movie that missed the simplistic point. Kinda makes the movie seem even stupider by proxy, or ineffective, apparently. It's hard to laugh at the film for being a goofy 80's flick when the depressing context is always breathing down the back of my neck: this film aided in defining and sustaining a terrible and self-destructive subculture. Not intentional on the filmmakers part I imagine, but reality.
Also, although I don't blame the movie for this, for me, Scarface marks the point of no return for Al Pacino's career when he became a parody of himself. It could have been any movie, but it was Scarface.
If it's on tv and the final scene is on, then I'll watch it to see Mr pacino shove his face in the powder, hear "say hello to my little friend" and watch him get shot 50 times and die. Otherwise, I don't feel like sitting through the rest to see that part.
And yes, I'm not sure why the OP needed to explain the movie. It's a basic man-done-wrong anti-hero story. That's it, really. That's his character. That's the plot. 3 hours of film and that's it and I found it completely un-engaging and thus boring. The constant violence and swearing did not compensate for anything, instead it created one blur of a film that I forgot about after it was over.
Then there's the odd worship of the character and the movie that missed the simplistic point. Kinda makes the movie seem even stupider by proxy, or ineffective, apparently. It's hard to laugh at the film for being a goofy 80's flick when the depressing context is always breathing down the back of my neck: this film aided in defining and sustaining a terrible and self-destructive subculture. Not intentional on the filmmakers part I imagine, but reality.
Also, although I don't blame the movie for this, for me, Scarface marks the point of no return for Al Pacino's career when he became a parody of himself. It could have been any movie, but it was Scarface.
If it's on tv and the final scene is on, then I'll watch it to see Mr pacino shove his face in the powder, hear "say hello to my little friend" and watch him get shot 50 times and die. Otherwise, I don't feel like sitting through the rest to see that part.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
Of course, you can idolize an incestuous, drug dealing, murdering piece of shit. Nothing's stopping you, much like nothing is stopping me from looking down on people who idolize said scumbags.
"I don't understand how people can have opinions that aren't exactly the same as mine! My opinion is clearly fact!"
There's been way too many of these threads lately, both here and on the gaming side. People need to take a breath and realize that not everyone will share the same deep, unequivocal love that I have for Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Different strokes, as they say.
In this case, though, you are correct. Anyone that doesn't like Scarface is up in the night.
There's been way too many of these threads lately, both here and on the gaming side. People need to take a breath and realize that not everyone will share the same deep, unequivocal love that I have for Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Different strokes, as they say.
In this case, though, you are correct. Anyone that doesn't like Scarface is up in the night.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I agree w/ a lot of Natural's post, but Pacino didn't really start to become a caricature of himself until he won an Oscar for his Yosemite Sam impression in Scent of a Woman.
That's the one that did him in.
That's the one that did him in.
Just watching Tony and Manolo try to pick up women is great for a laugh!
Scarface is a loveletter to Miami in the 80's. It captures the heat, the multiculturalism, and the menace of its underbelly so very well. It was a time of grit and excess. City's were not yet gentrified as they are today, the economy was booming, and people were coming to grips with powerful cocaine addictions for the very first time. Add a few booze-soaked clubs and we are talking about my kind of town!
Scarface has also become a great time capsule. Fashion and architecture, cars and music; it's all there and can give some of us a great deal of nostalgia. The whole movie is soaked in a great atmosphere and there isn't another film quite like it.
Scarface is a loveletter to Miami in the 80's. It captures the heat, the multiculturalism, and the menace of its underbelly so very well. It was a time of grit and excess. City's were not yet gentrified as they are today, the economy was booming, and people were coming to grips with powerful cocaine addictions for the very first time. Add a few booze-soaked clubs and we are talking about my kind of town!
Scarface has also become a great time capsule. Fashion and architecture, cars and music; it's all there and can give some of us a great deal of nostalgia. The whole movie is soaked in a great atmosphere and there isn't another film quite like it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's not really a love letter to anything. There's no love in it.
Also, were you alive in 1980, much less Miami, to know that's what it felt like?
It's a cartoon. Oliver Stone's made maybe two semi-realistic movies in his entire life: Salvador and Platoon. And Brian DePalma's made even LESS than that. So to think that suddenly either Stone or DePalma are going to be interested in accurately capturing anything about the cocaine trade in 1980 Miami, much less that they actually accomplished that feat seems a little - a LOT - forgiving
Yeah, but as Breaking Bad would prove, people love this sort of characterization.
lol how cute.
Opinions man...
Yeah I was alive. I was a teenager through the 80's. My first trip to Miami I was seventeen.
It's a cartoon. Oliver Stone's made maybe two semi-realistic movies in his entire life: Salvador and Platoon. And Brian DePalma's made even LESS than that. So to think that suddenly either Stone or DePalma are going to be interested in accurately capturing anything about the cocaine trade in 1980 Miami, much less that they did it seems a little - a LOT - forgiving
I wrote about cars and fashion and you jumped to capturing the cocaine trade so you are straw manning a bit here. If you don't like the movie, that's cool, but you haven't demonstrated the ability to prove it was a bad movie.
I think hipsters do now. It's sad but not not surprising.
Oh. But at least if enough of them hate it, it will be cool for them to like it again.
Hipsters are like a snake eating its own tail.
These are my thoughts. I'd also add that even though it's nearly 3 hours long, it feels twice as long because of the pacing being so lethargic.
The same could be said for all the Bieber shit but 99.99% of GAF hates him.
As for Scarface, i don't hate it but i think it's one of the most overrated films in the history of overrated films. Nobody even gave a shit about it until the late 90s when it exploded in the hip-hop community. Same with The Wire. Nobody i knew cared about it and i didn't hear much about it online until like 5-6 years ago and now it's the hottest shit ever.
Not saying either had it's fans, they both did. It's just neither were at it's peak until pop culture grabbed a hold of it. I mean shit, you can't watch a network comedy or drama without hearing someone quote The Wire. That shit never happened 5-6+ years ago. And Scarface was critically shat on when it came out.
This is new for me too.
What about Godfather, Goodfellas, Casino, Once Upon a Time in America and Heat?
giancarlo123x
Banned
I love Scarface, one of my favorite movies of all times.
You know, it is entirely possible to not like every gangster epic that's out there.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Yep.
Well hate is a strong word but don't care for either. And I think both are certainly leagues ahead of Scarface in terms of quality.
TheJollyCorner
Member
My man.
Carlito's Way is fantastic.
I mostly watch Scarface for Giorgio Moroder's hilariously outdated soundtrack.
Oh- and Robert Loggia's accent.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Those are all vastly better movies.
Scarface is liked less due to its quality as a movie, and more because
a) it's a template for a specific style of hip-hop.
b) it's a template for a specific chapter in a video game series.
It's a movie who's references so saturated popular culture in the mid-90s that for lots of people watching it for the first time, it's a nonstop run of "Hey, I recognize this!" and that helps paper over a lot of the problems with the film.
It's also sorta like "My Buddy's First Gangster Epic." It's got the training wheels on, so far as drama is concerned. It's got the shape and the pace of something that's supposed to be meaningful, but it's all sugar and empty carbs inside. I can see enjoying the hell out of it if you haven't really seen what else that specific genre has to offer, but once stuff like Goodfellas, Godfather, Once Upon a Time in America, DePalma's own Carlito's Way (which - I get the sense was a makeup for Scarface becoming the mess it became) get some run - I don't know how a rewatch of Scarface holds up beyond the initial "Hey! I recognize that!" pleasures, most of which wear off after a set amount of time.
I don't HATE Scarface. It's disappointing. I don't even hate the weird mall-culture, almost ICP-esque fetishizing of the film's imagery. I get it. I remember when Scarface posters first started seriously becoming a "thing" along with Bob Marley album covers and shitty 2pac posters with bad poetry plastered on it. It made sense.
But as a film - it's not very good.
The Wire was always critically acclaimed, though. And the audience was small but word of mouth grew. Using The Wire as a comparison to Scarface isn't doing either property any favors at all
Dyno said:
No. Here's what you wrote. I mean, I quoted it once already:
The movie is about the cocaine trade. You reference it SPECIFICALLY in the 2nd to last sentence, and obliquely in the third (grit & excess). It's about a guy who becomes a drug kingpin. It's not an accurate depiction of either the city, or the drug trade going on within it. It's a neon cartoon about a coked-out Bugs Bunny who goes to seed and wants to fuck his sister. There's no love for the city, it's inhabitants, or the characters in the movie. The whole thing is sneering and contemptuous.
I'm not saying that can't be entertaining. I am saying that being a 3 hour movie with no variations in tone or character across the full runtime does make it tedious as hell.
It's not a "hipster" thing. Jesus. It's a movies thing.
It's not a very good movie. Lots of people don't like it. This isn't surprising.
Congrats, very witty comment. Doesn't answer my question though.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The 80s version is basically a remake in name only. There's not much linking the two.
Sure but they are based off of the same concept. A man rising to the top in the drug underworld.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That's a really loose concept, though. I mean - There Will Be Blood could be a remake of Scarface by that logic.
edit: you added the "drug underworld" part! My crappy comparison makes less sense now. Dammit. Anyway - agreed that the '30s version is a better movie.
I remember when that huge box-set came out - that was the ONLY way to get the '30s Scarface, wasn't it? I don't know if that's still the case, but I remember some people were upset that the 1930s film was basically considered an extra, and nothing more.
edit: you added the "drug underworld" part! My crappy comparison makes less sense now. Dammit. Anyway - agreed that the '30s version is a better movie.
I remember when that huge box-set came out - that was the ONLY way to get the '30s Scarface, wasn't it? I don't know if that's still the case, but I remember some people were upset that the 1930s film was basically considered an extra, and nothing more.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I think that's really what people hate about Scarface.
Holy shit, I've never seen that before.
The only difference between that and your average Tumbler/DeviantArt masturbatory glurt of "art" is that it's printed onto a poster instead of hosted on a website.
Watched it for the first time on Netflix earlier this year, it's a great movie. And this montage is just masterful.
But the thug life maaan.
But this is why I used to dislike the film a bit. After watching it, it's almost as if those tryhard thugs forget that he gets destroyed, his life goes to shit and even kills his own best friend because he was a dumbass.
But the thug life maaan.
Interesting, In 2006, gaffers were not as positive toward the movie.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100438
ANd i'm finding lots of super negative posts spread around in the archive!
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100438
ANd i'm finding lots of super negative posts spread around in the archive!
Liquidsnake
Banned
Scarface is a fine movie but for some reason it attracts terrible fans. People buy this shit and think it's cool:
I think that's really what people hate about Scarface.
Fuuuuuuk I have that hanging in my living room. Now I feel terrible. Time to redecorate!
This movie and Carlitos way are instant classics, and are examples of Pacino at his best.
Pretty much. Pop culturally important, but not that great of a movie. Even Pacino called his character "two dimensional" IIRC.
Sapiens
Member
Scarface is a fine movie but for some reason it attracts terrible fans. People buy this shit and think it's cool:
I think that's really what people hate about Scarface.
Thats the worst thing ive ever seen.
But still...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZz3y6r-5H8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4m36RMYHn4
Dat soundtrack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZz3y6r-5H8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4m36RMYHn4
Dat soundtrack.
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