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[Baron Aloha]

Wow….just wow. If even 1/10th of the stuff in this movie is 100% true with no spin whatsoever then this country is in worse shape than I thought. I thought it was just a really sad movie. I came away from watching it feeling sad for this country, sad for the families of the soldiers dying in Iraq, and sad for the Iraqi civilians.

I know that the Iraqi civilians have suffered casualties since the war started but actually seeing the anguish on their faces put things in a whole new perspective. This war probably created another 100,000 terrorists easily.

I don't know who is running Kerry's campaign but they need to be fired because Kerry should be way ahead. If I was running it I would have taken clips (of the administration) from this movie and made commercials out of them a lot time ago.

Stuff like:

Condi, Rumsfeld, etc saying in 2001 that Saddam didn't have WMDs and that he was in fact getting weaker. Then six months later saying the exact opposite. Talk about a flip-flop.

Bush saying that the elite was his base. If you would have heard him talk it sure didn't seem like he had any "Southern" values. It seemed like the only thing he values is money and his rich friends.

Bush saying "well its no wonder the Iraqi people are angry at us....if someone was occupying my country I'd be angry too". Hmm, gee I thought we were liberators and not occupiers?

The part where that woman who's son died in Iraq went to D.C. was another sad moment. I couldn't believe that someone had the nerve to come up to her and call her a liar and say that the whole business about her son being killed was just an act. If I was the mother I would have slapped the crap out of that woman. Its just like the mother said...that just goes to show how ignorant some people in this country are.

 

[xsarien]

Now watch this drive...

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

How about those Titans?

I just wanted to get in while I could.

 

[Willco]

People like you scare me as much as people that believe whatever Bush says.

 

[teiresias]

I thought it was funny how the Secret Service thought Moore was apparently going to storm the Iranian embassy or something.

 

[Baron Aloha]

People like you scare me as much as people that believe whatever Bush says.

I took a lot of this movie with a grain of salt (which I thought I was clear about in my original post when I prefaced it by saying if 1/10th of the movie is true. I'm not the kind of person who will immediately believe everything that I hear but when I see for my own eyes the stuff that the Bush administration has said I'm going to believe it. Surely you aren't going to tell me that Moore somehow made them say those things. And am I not supposed to believe that innocent people were killed in Iraq?

 

[AeroGod]

Its just like the mother said...that just goes to show how ignorant some people in this country are.

What a brilliant way to end your post.

 

[alejob]

I haven't watched it yet.


People don't get that the US invading Iraq and all this other BS is pissing the rest of the world.

The US is Fu...ing bully. They can't force their ways on the rest of the world. People hate them because of this. They specially hate bush.

 

[ManDudeChild]

I took a lot of this movie with a grain of salt (which I thought I was clear about in my original post when I prefaced it by saying if 1/10th of the movie is true. I'm not the kind of person who will immediately believe everything that I hear but when I see for my own eyes the stuff that the Bush administration has said I'm going to believe it. Surely you aren't going to tell me that Moore somehow made them say those things. And am I not supposed to believe that innocent people were killed in Iraq?

I think Bush and co are a danger to this planet, but Fahrenheit 9/11 SHOULD be taken with a grain of salt. Yes they've said a lot of contradictory statements, but take into account this is a film that has edited out pieces of words, and used misleading newspapers. Course once again, your government's nuts, but so is Fahrenheit 9/11.

 

[ManaByte]

For the other half, watch this:

It's funny as hell the way Ron Silver owns Moore in the movie.

It also goes back and interviews some of the people from F9/11 who are pissed at how Moore edited their comments to twist what they said.

 

[AeroGod]

People don't get that the US invading Iraq and all this other BS is pissing the rest of the world.

No shit really? Every American knows. EVERY AMERICAN. Even the new borns. The doctor rips you out of your mothers womb, holds you upside down, spanks your ass and "Ohhh by the way, the rest of the world hates you. Vote Kerry". Then the baby cries.

 

[ManaByte]

and used misleading newspapers.

It used a newspaper headline that Moore had created for the film. The newspaper is suing him over it (it's one of the first things they show in Fahrenhype 9/11)

 

[xsarien]

Yes they've said a lot of contradictory statements, but take into account this is a film that has edited out pieces of words,

Welcome to every documentary and news piece ever made. Michael Moore's made no attempt to hide the fact that F9/11 is an extraordinarily slanted, visual op/ed piece that's designed to slam the President right up against the wall. He interprets the plain-as-day facts in a certain way, and others are free to have a different take on it.

But there's nothing in that movie that's made up out of thin air.

 

[ManaByte]

But there's nothing in that movie that's made up out of thin air.

Except the newspaper that Moore had created for the film that made it look like a certain newspaper printed something they didn't. He's now being sued over it.

The movie wouldn't pass a fact-check at the MPAA over that, which is why Disney would not release it. Disney didn't want to get sued over the made-up newspaper, so now Moore is.

 

[ManaByte]

Here's the article on the newspaper headline that sparked the lawsuit.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Oh, and the part where the Democratic congressman says that he (and other members of congress but that's heresay) never reads any of the legislation was another WTF moment. WTH is he getting paid for then? Excuse me if I'm wrong but isn't it part of his job to read those laws and know what the heck he is voting on? I mean talk about driving around with a blindfold on...

 

[ManDudeChild]

Granted, that's common knowledge. But I'm sure you see what I'm saying. So stop splitting hairs

 

[xsarien]

Here's the article on the newspaper headline that sparked the lawsuit.

That's nice. Did you read it?

 

[Alcibiades]

And am I not supposed to believe that innocent people were killed in Iraq?

you do know innocent people were being killed even before the US went in by Saddam?

 

[ManaByte]

That's nice. Did you read it?

a headline from The Pantagraph ("Latest Florida recount shows Gore won election") that originally appeared above a Dec. 5, 2001, letter to the editor was changed in both font and size for the movie and made to look like a news story from the Dec. 19, 2001, edition.

Moore took a letter to the editor in a newspaper, changed the font and the layout of the page to make it look like a front-page news story and even changed the date on it.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Bush saying that the elite was his base. If you would have heard him talk it sure didn't seem like he had any "Southern" values. It seemed like the only thing he values is money and his rich friends.

This is one of the bits I'll readily accept as being presented in a distorted way. This was at a dinner with both candidates, where their speeches poked fun at themselves and their public images.

 

[xsarien]

Moore took a letter to the editor in a newspaper, changed the font and the layout of the page to make it look like a front-page news story and even changed the date on it.

It was done to further the point of that particular segment of the movie. Hanging the "Fahrenheit 9/11 is a disingenius, dishonest movie" argument on this - for all intents and purposes - technicality is wrong.

If you have a legitimate complaint about the movie, find something in it with substance: a flat out, major lie that isn't even supported by the facts Moore presents. Just so you know, though, Moore's showing all of his cards. There's a nearly scene-by-scene fact check available for everyone to read on michaelmoore.com.

 

[Baron Aloha]

you do know innocent people were being killed even before the US went in by Saddam?

you do know the saying that two wrongs don't make a right?

I find it appaling that you would even think to try and make the argument that it was okay for them to die by our hands because "hey, they were gonna die anyway".

 

[ManaByte]

It was done to further the point of that particular segment of the movie. Hanging the "Fahrenheit 9/11 is a disingenius, dishonest movie" argument on this - for all intents and purposes - technicality is wrong.

He's now getting sued over it. He made it look like a newspaper said something they didn't say, so now he's in trouble over it. If he said it was a letter to the editor from a reader of the newspaper he wouldn't be in trouble. Instead he photoshopped the newpaper to make it look like they printed a story that they never did.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

you do know innocent people were being killed even before the US went in by Saddam?

Hey, I'm willing to make comparisons between the Bush administration and the Hussein administration if you are.

 

[Willco]

It was done to further the point of that particular segment of the movie. Hanging the "Fahrenheit 9/11 is a disingenius, dishonest movie" argument on this - for all intents and purposes - technicality is wrong.

If you have a legitimate complaint about the movie, find something in it with substance: a flat out, major lie that isn't even supported by the facts Moore presents. Just so you know, though, Moore's showing all of his cards. There's a nearly scene-by-scene fact check available for everyone to read on michaelmoore.com.

What ManaByte posted sounds pretty egregious. Your reply sounds more like damage control.

I have no qualms with Michael Moore putting his political and social views on film, but there is a slight responsibility to remind the viewer that it is all his opinion because then you've got some bafoons who see the movie and think John Titor was right all along.

 

[Baron Aloha]

This is one of the bits I'll readily accept as being presented in a distorted way. This was at a dinner with both candidates, where their speeches poked fun at themselves and their public images.

Was it? Well thanks for bringing that to my attention (Mana too). One of the reasons why I made this thread is to kind of find out stuff like that.

 

[ManDudeChild]

The bit on the WMD at that dinner was wrong on so many levels.

 

[xsarien]

What ManaByte posted sounds pretty egregious. Your reply sounds more like damage control.

It'd be more damage control if the doctored image in question wasn't mixed into a larger montage of news footage, news papers, and talking heads.

The movie isn't supposed to be "fair," Michael Moore has never, ever claimed it to be, I don't know why people still insist that it should be; most documentaries take a point of view, and aren't necessarily required to present an opposing opinion.

 

[seismologist]

I need to see this. I loved bowling for Columbine even though he twists the facts to make a point it's the underlying message that counts.

 

[ManaByte]

It'd be more damage control if the doctored image in question wasn't mixed into a larger montage of news footage, news papers, and talking heads.

The movie isn't supposed to be "fair," Michael Moore has never, ever claimed it to be, I don't know why people still insist that it should be; most documentaries take a point of view, and aren't necessarily required to present an opposing opinion.

He can be unfair without making lies to further his agenda. That newspaper was a manufactured lie made by Moore. Please stop the damage control.

 

[xsarien]

He can be unfair without making lies to further his agenda. That newspaper was a manufactured lie made by Moore. Please stop the damage control.

Please stop dragging out something that was in the movie for arguably less than five seconds and trying to prop it up as proof that the entire movie and its broader points should be null and void.

 

[Dilbert]

I have no qualms with Michael Moore putting his political and social views on film, but there is a slight responsibility to remind the viewer that it is all his opinion...

The way in which certain things are presented and the ultimate impression which Moore wants to leave with the viewer is his opinion. MANY, MANY things in the movie are FACTS.

Also, for the record, I am sick to fucking death of people who latch on to the smallest part of something and use it as a distraction from the main issue at hand. Regardless of what you think about the headline in question -- did you see the rest of the goddamn movie? Do you really think that FONT SIZE somehow negates everything else which is said? "Totally batshit insane" indeed.

 

[ManaByte]

I need to see this. I loved bowling for Columbine even though he twists the facts to make a point it's the underlying message that counts.

When you buy this:

Be sure to buy this (it's less than $10):

That way you get both sides.

 

[Alcibiades]

Hey, I'm willing to make comparisons between the Bush administration and the Hussein administration if you are.

still, under Saddam there would be no end in sight as far as what went on. While there are calls of a new Vietnam right now, from reading even the supposedly slanted US news, I get the feeling there is progress there.

Last year, there were reports that the Taliban was back and that war lords were on the verge of taking Afganistan back, and look at the situation now, imperfect but settled.

I think that the chances are fairly even that things will work out for the better in Iraq...

BTW, I there is a difference between "taking a point of view"/"not being fair" and just totally distorting the truth and seemingly making up situations...

Even with the famous "Watch this drive" shot in the movie, he wasn't even talking about Al-Qaida or the US, he was referring to Israel and the Palestinian situation...

 

[Alcibiades]

hey ManaByte, can you get Fahrenhype 9/11 at any stores?

It's $15 bucks online and I planned to buy it at overstock.com, but I'd rather just get it at some retail place if they have it.

Do you know if Wal-Mart or Best Buy carry it?

 

[BuddyC]

efra, I imagine Suncoast would stock it. Wal Mart, not so much. There's a good chance Best Buy would have it, though it's not showing up on their site.

 

[GG-Duo]

I just watched half of OUTFOXED last night. That is also a great documentary. I would recommend for you to check it out as well. It's only 10 bucks at www.outfoxed.org

 

[ManaByte]

I got mine at Best Buy for $10. They hide it in the special interest section.

 

[Alcibiades]

I got mine at Best Buy for $10. They hide it in the special interest section.

wow thanks... I'll probably get it today or tomorrow...

 

[wandering goat]

People who don't like F911 most likely don't dislike it just because they think it's not a real documentary. They don't like it (and Bowling for Columbine) because they don't like watching a movie that attempts to teach you about something while distorting information and lying to you. I know my idea of a good time isn't watching something that tries to blatantly manipulate you using false or distorted info. I'd like to think I have a bit of integrity and therefore won't watch a movie that talks down to me and tries to fool me like I'm an idiot.

 

[pnjtony]

If you liked Outfoxed, I suggest getting Orwell Rolls in his Grave. It's got a lot of the same Fox stuff as well as tricks from other networks and about a ton of other things. Very highly rated

 

[Kon Tiki]

When you buy this:

Be sure to buy this (it's less than $10):

That way you get both sides.

Yes. I suggest we all watch that. We must not let Micheal Moore become president!

 

[Dilbert]

People who don't like F911 most likely don't dislike it just because they think it's not a real documentary. They don't like it (and Bowling for Columbine) because they don't like watching a movie that attempts to teach you about something while distorting information and lying to you. I know my idea of a good time isn't watching something that tries to blatantly manipulate you using false or distorted info. I'd like to think I have a bit of integrity and therefore won't watch a movie that talks down to me and tries to fool me like I'm an idiot.

I SO wish I could hand out tags.

 

[iapetus]

Wow….just wow. If even 1/10th of the stuff in this movie is 100% true with no spin whatsoever then...

...it wasn't made by Michael Moore. I have very little interest in this film after seeing Bowling for Columbine.

Edit:
jinx, I actually kind of agree with Kurashima on this one. In BfC, I felt that Moore had some good points to make, and that they were weakened for me by his need to push some of his arguments further that they could go. The flabby and directionless nature of the film didn't help much either, but it's mostly the feeling that the facts are being distorted despite the fact that they could make their case just as effectively if not more effectively if they were being left to do the job themselves.

 

[Willco]

People who don't like F911 most likely don't dislike it just because they think it's not a real documentary. They don't like it (and Bowling for Columbine) because they don't like watching a movie that attempts to teach you about something while distorting information and lying to you. I know my idea of a good time isn't watching something that tries to blatantly manipulate you using false or distorted info. I'd like to think I have a bit of integrity and therefore won't watch a movie that talks down to me and tries to fool me like I'm an idiot.

Amen.

 

[seismologist]

When you buy this:

Be sure to buy this (it's less than $10):

That way you get both sides.

I'll watch 9/11 as entertainment since it's actually supposed to be a good film. I'm capable of forming my own opinion based on what I see.
I dont want to watch a bunch of conservative whiners crying foul.

 

[duderon]

People who don't like F911 most likely don't dislike it just because they think it's not a real documentary. They don't like it (and Bowling for Columbine) because they don't like watching a movie that attempts to teach you about something while distorting information and lying to you. I know my idea of a good time isn't watching something that tries to blatantly manipulate you using false or distorted info. I'd like to think I have a bit of integrity and therefore won't watch a movie that talks down to me and tries to fool me like I'm an idiot.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/

Please point out all of the false and distorted info for me, kthxbye.

 

[GG-Duo]

Regardless of his argument and some of his techniques [ie. driving around ice cream truck with speakerphone, following recruiters around, ambushing senators], there are some excellent footage in F9/11.

Even if you hate the fat fuck, I'd still say that the film is definitely worth viewing.

 

[Alcibiades]

Actually, the narrarator (Dick Morris) of the Fahrenhype 9/11 movie calls himself a liberal "child of the Clinton era".

He actually is credited with getting Bill Clinton re-elected in 1996 after a faltering defeat of both houses in Congress, and actually served as Bill Clinton's advisor during not just the '96 election, but also during some campaigns in Arkansas.

He's pro-choice, pro-environment, pro-health care, etc... He recently came out in support of the anti-conservative candidate in the Australian election.

Also, you'll find Democrats and liberals (including former NYC Democratic mayor Ed Koch) in Fahrenhype 9/11.

It's not just the Ann Coulter's whining, Moore pissed a lot of people off by not necessarily by the stands he took and accusations he made, but rather by distortion of facts and taking interviews and events out of context...-